Which system has the best stats in your opinion, Veeky Forums?

Best system mechanics in general.

Your default skills can only be modified by gaining or losing hardened notches making your Madness Meters the mechanical core of your character.

Struggle/Connect is for Violence
Pursuit/Status is for Isolation
Dodge/Health is for Helplessness
Secrets/Notice is for Unnatural
Lie/Knowledge is for Self

If you gain notches in each of your meters the skill on the right of their respective meter goes down by 5 percent and the skill on the left goes up 5 percent. You start out with 20/60 and with enough trauma you can turn it into 60/20.

>DEX
>AGI
They are the same thing though

I don't think so. DEX is a precision stat while AGI is a gotta go fast stat. In the game anyway, DEX was accuracy and ranged damage, while AGI was your attack and dodge rates.

>old stats
seriously grandpa, go with the times
it's Body, Agility, Reaction, Strength, Logic, Intuition, Charisma and Willpower now

Senpai that's my #1 pet peeve. DEX and AGI are very different, because the word 'Dexterity' comes from the word for HAND. 'Agility' comes from the word for MOBILITY.

I know, this is seriously anally retentive, but that's me.

And thus, in my system at least, I've basically divided them up, making Agility (Nimbleness, Mobility), where as I've made Dexterity (Precision, Finesse). In short, Agi for melee attacks, Dex for ranged attacks. Dex is used for melee attacks if you are doing called shots.

Using dual-stat die system (like Ryuutama) really eases the load. No need to think about skill modifiers.

For anyone interested, my system has 10 stats (Attributes basically)

>Strength
>Agility
>Dexterity
>Presence
>Cunning
>Intuition
>Knowledge

And three passive stats (Cannot be the only stat in a roll)
>Toughness
>Composure
>Will

To the total of 10. Many would probably say that's too much, but because my system is skill-less, it's a good amount.

It's less about the attributes and more about how they translate into skills and characteristics.

Like RuneQuest 6 has strength, dexterity, size, constitution, intelligence, power, and charisma and those apply to the skills by using two attributes each. By using two attributes you have less minmaxing, more "common sense" with attributes, and even with random stat generation you are never gimped entirely. On top of that, attributes generate characteristics that can only be enhanced by magic while experience matters much, much more for skills.

Colapse CON into STR and split DEX into AGI and DEX and you're basically good to go with the D&D set.
If you're using a system that has skill points you could arguably take out wisdom and let the skill points represent experience and training.

This overall.

>The only thing I'm not entirely keen on is that Perception and Willpower are determined by Intelligence, which I'd say is neither realistic nor representative of cinematic conventions.
They can all be raised and lowered individually though. You can be a genius coward who's too absentminded to really pay attention to anything.

It should also be noted that the perception stat really is paying attention to things, where as the acute senses thing is for actual sharp senses.

> I'll take games that shot themselves in the foot with their selection of art for 500
I doubt I'll ever be able to convince anyone to play it with me.

> DEX & AGI are the same thing though
You say that like all professional painters are also Olympian gymnasts.

I'd rather just have STR = Combat Strength and DEX = Physiology. Constitution gets left in because it straddles mental and physical ability - your mental and physical toughness. Then I would go with INT = Intuition and Memory, WIS = Faith and Discipline, and charisma left as is.

Jiggle the attributes for skills slightly and it makes more sense.

Dungeon World! Because it's the best in what it does: to copy D&D and call itself not-D&D! And I, and the rest of the fan community, are faggots!

There's really no reason DEX and AGI should be the same stat though. Dexterity, as defined in dictionaries, is the ability to use your hands with precision. Commonly associated with grace, yes, but it's more about precision and timing, where as Agility is quite specifically the ability to move quickly and swiftly. That one stat governs everything from your accuracy with bows to how well you sneak is why it's "a god-stat, by any other name." If you've got even a +1 in STR and CON there's no reason to not just dump the rest of your everything into DEX, because your character will become more accurate with ranged and finesse weapons, as well as unarmed combat (depending on the edition), better at sneaking, picking locks maybe, sleight of hand, riding horses, and a dozen other feats; to say nothing of the REFL save.

They really need to be split
DEX: Ranged/Finesse Weapons, Picking Locks*, Sleight of Hand
AGI: Reflexes, Riding, Stealth, Reflexes
*unless you're porting that to INT, which also makes sense, but I'm of the notion that having both INT and WIS in a system with skill points is redundant. Generally I motion to take out WIS: move Perception to INT and Survival to CON, and then let the skill points speak to the character's knowledgeably and experience.

I am aware that I listed Reflexes twice, though I do not know why.

>99
>30-ish
>60+
>1
>40-ish
>1
Mastersmith4lyfe

>dat pic
>walking around with a hat that says No gle
>because you forgot the second 'o' is the same color as the background

>collapse STR into CON

Except in D&D HP are one of the most important things there is, and they're governed by CON. STR+CON then becomes the God-stat for combat, since most D&D combat is melee combat requiring lots of damage and lots of damage-absorption.

I do agree with splitting DEX into DEX+AGI in a skill system that mixes skills with attributes...but recall that D&D Original/1e/2e didn't have skills, and in those versions DEX is much, much weaker. It never gave bonuses to ranged combat either.

Your timezone?

EST, US

Locals are of n' on about starting some local D&D though, but if that doesn't follow through I'm definitely interested.

STR is nearly useless as-is though. Giving it HP pushes it into being important. Keep in mind that it's only 1 or 2 extra HP per-level, generally speaking. Depending on the edition that's potentially useless, short of giving you that 3 HP you're hanging onto after suffering two critical hits; if something sneezes on you at that point you're dead regardless of if you STR were -1 or +3.

Well it goes to where I like stats:
>combat instinct (that vicious "beast like" nature and ability beyond frame)
>physical potential (your reflexes, strength, speed, precision)
>toughness (mental and physical fortitude)
>intuition (quickly thinking and correctly interpreting information)
>metaphysical power/influence (magical power, luck, etc.)
>social magnetism (leadership, persuasion, ability to get laid, etc.)

Those are sort of the basic character traits in my mind, so I like to arrange things like that. They just are the most barebones stats can get to me and I can't see how to compress it further for an action oriented game.

Dammit, will I ever find someone around GMT+2/3
Sorry, no

Soviet Russia hates you and RPGs both.

Sword Path Glory has:
Intelligence
Motivation
Willpower
Strenght
Dextery
Health
Speed
Size
Endurance
Leadership
Telepathic Sentitivity = represents the character's perceptiveness of the world about him and his ability to
read the emotions and truthfulness of others, and used for magic
Teaching Ability
Charisma
Ego

The best system is invariably the one you write for yourself that encompasses everything you want out of a system.

Why isn't "telepathic sensitivity" not just Awareness or Empathy or some more reasonable term?

>Why isn't "telepathic sensitivity" not just Awareness or Empathy or some more reasonable term?
Maybe to be better suited to something that will be used with magic

OP here. That's what I intended. Wanted to compare notes with everyone else to see what they think is best.

I was thinking of removing mental stats, and instead rely on actual character knowledge and player actual intelligence/wisdom. That way we can get an attribute list not bloated, but still able to divide DEX from AGI.

I don't know if it's a good idea though.

>player actual intelligence/wisdom
I don't know, it rubs me the wrong way. Are you saying that intelligent players may only play intelligent characters and dumb players only dumb ones?

>They're totally different because they have a different name to represent the same thing

I'm saying there won't be "rolls" for logic tests, but they have to figure things out manually with their own brains. Sure there are still knowledge skills, but it's going to be more "right to ask the GM meta questions", which is how Bardic Knowledge works anyway.

Don't know how this will work in the end, but I believe I'm in some eh, reasonable direction to figure out things in.

thing is: Are the things you roll for solvable without the meta-knowledge? Cause in that case a dumb player with lot's of knowledge skills may not be able to solve it while a smart player without may be able to.
And in that case the knowledge skills seem kinda useless

>Senpai that's my #1 pet peeve
I also have one stat pet peeve.
When the system group intelligence and willpower/motivaiton into the same stat

OpenD6 does it pretty well, making it so that stats are fine-tuned to the type of game you're playing.

Base d6 Adventure, meant to do modern stuff/be the most generic?
>Reflexes, Coordination, Physique, Presence, Knowledge, Perception, Extranormal (the magic stat).

These are the most generic stats and let you do most stuff without a problem. It's a bit vague compared to the other d6 games, as they stick with the typical necessary ones (Dex, Str, Know, and Perc/Cha) and add their specific twists where Adventure splits Dex and Perception, but it's pretty detailed and will do for most things.

Star Wars/other Sci-Fi d6?
>Dexterity, Knowledge, Mechanical (operating stuff), Perception (acts as actual perception and charisma), Strength, Technical (fixing, programming, and hacking stuff).

These are custom-made for surviving in a science fiction world where technology is the norm. You have your baseline stuff that everyone should have (Dex, Str, Know, and Perc/Cha), Int is split three ways: Mechanical and Technical aren't really necessary most other places; and make sense in a sci-fi world. Just because you're smart doesn't mean you can fly a fighter or hack a computer. In sci-fi, with so much tech, that matters.

Fantasy?
>Agility, Coordination, Physique, Charisma, Intellect, Acumen, Extranormal

The only real difference between Fantasy and Adventure is that Int is split into two stats, which makes a bit of sense. In a fantasy setting, what equipment you have doesn't really matter as much. Technology doesn't really play a part. What you know, and what you can do, takes priority.

MiniSix, the faster-playing cousin of Od6, combines the stats into four that are used no matter what genre of game: Might, Agility, Wit, and Charm. You're free to add other attributes if you want if the genre demands it, but it's not really necessary.

>. That way we can get an attribute list not bloated, but still able to divide DEX from AGI.
Are doing the entire work of remove mental stats just to add some few new stats?
Just add those new stats without removing the mental oens for jesus christ sake.

>stats

Fate or even Risus does better with Aspects and Cliches. No need to translate your character concept into numbers, just write it down.

Skills as stats is good too. Stats+Skills is redundant.

Why isn't intuition passive?

I like Shadow of the Demon Lord's stat array. Strength, Agility, Intellect and Willpower. Each is relevant to a specific form of combat (Strength for power weapons, Agility for finesse weapons, Int and Will for their own flavors of magic depending on your spell options.

Strength is used for Health, Agility for physical Defenses (the AC equivalent), Intellect for Perception, and Will to protect you from Insanity. Plus each stat is targeted by other more specific sorts of abilities. Strength might be attacked by a poison, or a spell that covers an area might attack your Agility to see if you can move out of the way of the attack in time. Intellect is attacked by mind altering magics that make you see illusions or that damage your psyche, and Will is used to resist charming or other magical compulsions. Each stat is vital in its own way, and they don't really overlap too much otherwise. It's not perfect, but it's one of the better ones I've seen for a standard d20 style game.

It's a pretty common houserule to have them based off 10 rather than IQ.
If a 5e were to occur (it probably won't) it's likely that this change would be made.

Like how hits (HP) used to be based on Health rather than Strength.

Why won't you also remove physical stats?
>you want to push the jammed door? You better get on the bench and start pumping the iron, son
aka "signs that the system will be utter shit"