Do you like Race As Class?

Do you like Race As Class?

No, but I do like race impacts class. An elven warrior would have more in common with a human ranger than warrior, but it's still a warrior with ranger being a different class.

Why should I like it? For what?

This.

Every race has its own particular way it does things, and sometimes is just plain awful at because of whyever

Yep, class as a concept is good as long as it helps player act according to his role.

I like race as class.
I also like race separate from class.
Different games have different objectives and necessarily have to go about achieving them in different ways. It's okay to like different games and different ways of playing, and measuring a game against your own, singular, subjective idea of what is the best way to roleplay only shows your own limitations, rather than those of the game you're criticizing.

I like the concept of racial classes that you can sink a couple levels into independently of your main class.
Never played a system that uses that, but the concept always appealed.

I like race as modifier to base stats plus classless system.

I like Classic Fantasy. You have race as culture, races restricted to certain classes, and racial passions.

I can see the argument to lift race restrictions to class, the culture and passions are what I really like.

I don't like class, it needlessly restricts a character mechanically

I don't like race, every race is just humans-with-gimmick

Hey look, it's that guy.

It's not really any more ridiculous than class as class.

So strictly point buy then?

You're a shit player with a shit DM, playing shit systems. Got it.

>I don't like fantasy RPGs

Nobodies who do everything, then?

I've never played Race as Class, but it sounds interesting enough that I'd give it a try. I enjoy restrictions sometimes, they make me find interesting ways to work within them.

Yes.
Races are superficial, and should be treated as traits at most in case that ordinary classes exist.
It shouldn't be Elven Warrior - it should be Warrior (Elf), because in this case the fact that he is an Elf is tertiary at best.

In general, the best classes come out when you distance yourself from the Warrior-Thief-Mage trinity.

...

>optim
>invoking that name

Either this is some edgy troll who's a retard trying to get banned with that trip or, it's actually virt and he's gotten doubly retarded during his time away, both for ban evading and using a similar trip.

Racial levels are cool

No.

What happens when I level up my race? Example : ELF
Do I just elf harder at people? Do I become a better elf?
What if my race was Jew? Do i guilt trip people harder or make more shekels from scams?

...

>What do you do for a living?
>I'm an engineer, how about you?
>Oh, I'm a nigger.

That was a lot funnier than I would have expected.
The general understanding is that "class" actually means "archetype".

>level up

>The general understanding is that "class" actually means "archetype".

This. I like the concept of race-as-class, because I hate the idea that class should be "your job" or "your mechanical niche." Class should be your archetype, or else scrap it and go classless.

>Hi, I'm Dusan the Red, and my class is Agler.

>What's an Agler?

>Oh, I'm the guy who makes those little things on the end of shoelaces. I'm a level 6 Agler, but you wouldn't know unless you were another Agler or maybe a Cobbler.

This.

Ol' D&D style where Race As Class capped your ability to use EXP effectily at a certain point is bad, but that's more to do with how I like my EXP handled (Honestly, I'd rather than the DM just give people levels every so often, and that each character get roughly the same level of power from a level (which is hard to do))

As a GM, I'd also rather levels, just so I know to ask about what a given player's character can do now. (And reduce the risk of exp buy characters just hording points because nothing screams AWESOME to them)

I honestly an't think of a single system where classes are professions instead of archetypes.
Maybe the Warhammer Fantasy system? You're welcome to give any examples you know.

I like class as something that could work with any race.

>Ol' D&D style where Race As Class capped your ability to use EXP effectily at a certain point is bad
Did you... ever play those systems? You never, ever got to those level caps.

>classes

I don't know any where it explicitly says in the rules that class=profession, but I've met a lot of folks who seem to think that way, especially among folks who hate race-as-class.
There are a lot of systems where classes are so numerous and narrowly focused that you can't really call them archetypes anymore, however. Just mechanical niches.

FFG Star Wars specializations? The careers would be an archetype for sure though.

this

Relying on "well, you'll never get there" for balance is friggin' silly.

People can start at whatever level/exp they want, and being force cutting out a concept for a given power because it hit the level cap earlier is not good.

WFRPG the classes really are more 'day job' then class but. They basically just give you some extra skills and related know how, they have as much impact as 'background' would have in most other games.

It's what most people would think of as 'class less'.

I thought Adventurer Conqueror King handled it nicely by having specific race restricted classes.
For example there were two choices for Elf.
Elven Spellsword, and Elven Nightblade.
Each one is still unique from the other 'human classes' and still make playing an Elf significantly different from a human.

I'm inlcined to agree, but the whole thing gets completely retarded when you have a race-as-class system where everyone of that race is the same class.

Like if every elven character has the Elf "class", you're essentially just forcing an entire race to become nimble archers or something. It's ok for a more arcade style of game (green elf needs food badly!) but shit for actual roleplaying games.

No. NO! No.

Next question?

You don't need to rely on "well you'll never get there", every DM and their uncle house ruled it away anyways.
It was only there to justify why the civilizations of "long lived" races weren't swarming with high level NPCs.

"You can just houserule it away" is an even worse excuse than "you'll never get there" though. You can justify literally anything with that line.

fuck off gnomestar

I like the "racial feats", so you can get better at your racial abilities but in exchange you are expending your feats in that.

There is a reason most OSRers play retroclones. The original games were really unpolished.
Even Gygax ignored the worse subsystems (psionics, weapon speeds, etc.)... which probably has something to do with why they were so unpolished.

Trying to rationalise the 'logic' behide levels is a bad idea to begin with.

They seriously were.

I mean, yes.

But to be fair, there's only two non-human classes in Magnamund, anyway

I prefer race significantly augmenting how that character works as that class.
for example, let's reduce some common races into one benefit
elves are more magical
orcs are more damaging
dwarves are more defensive
thus,
elf fighter = some sort of lighter armored mageblade
orc fighter = berserker
dwarf fighter = typical plate armor/shield users

though that takes a significant amount of work compared to how D&D races typically work, so I usually just try to work in stuff like elves start with a minor magical item that most likely wont make them outshine others in a specific class, just makes them a unique choice.

I prefer a classless system where all characters are blank slates and can pick up any weapon or spell. Proficiencies for weapon-use or spellcasting should probably require investment from a character's experience pool, or fees to cover the cost of training at local guilds.

A character's ethos or devotion to any particular cause may change during the course of the adventure, so being forced into a single class-based role from start to finish seems too restrictive.

>Like if every elven character has the Elf "class", you're essentially just forcing an entire race to become nimble archers or something. It's ok for a more arcade style of game (green elf needs food badly!) but shit for actual roleplaying games.

No, it only applies to members of that race that end up as adventurers working with humans.

How to spot dnd/pf-only players 101

Show me class-based system without levels, please.

.... Isn't it a bit..... racist?

As much as I like Thac0, classes that progress at different rates, and unnecessary charts and tables.

missed both times

I used to hate it, but that was back when the only RPG I had ever played was DnD3.5.

Then I realised I was thinking too narrowly. A class is just a bundle of stats. 'You are an elfy adventurer' is just SUGGESTED fluff for the Elf class. Picking the Elf class does not mean you are an actual elf, in the same way that someone who is a fighter does not literally introduce themselves as "I am Bob the Fighter."

So now I think it's fine. It's just another class you can be, that you can apply whatever fluff you want to.

Reskinning is great.

Of course, if you're NOT into reskinning, it's dumb. But what kind of idiot doesn't like reskinning?

Theoretically Apocalypse World and related games don't have 'levels', just 'advances', but in practice they're similar enough to not really make a difference.

That sort of system sounds very neat to me, although I feel like a big issue with making it would be that people would probably just try to 'double-up' on benefits too much.

Like if Elves are more magical, then people will only play Elf Mages so they can be the most magical possible.

It also means that about half of your character's skills will come from the class, and the other half will have to be from race in order to keep that sort of definition going. Otherwise you get Elf fighters being mageblades for the first couple levels, and then just being a normal fighter later on when the bonuses for being an elf don't mean as much.

I was originally thinking they would be separate classes (if you're an elf you get ranger, if you're a dwarf you get crossbowman, etc) but there's two better ways you could go about this.

1. would be the least friendly to new/homebrew classes, which would make certain level's features depend on your race. Similar to how 5e splits class options, a dwarf or elf barbarian would be the primal one, while orc would be frenzy. Orc fighters are Champions, Dwarf fighters are battle masters, elves are eldritch knights. Something similar to that, but with features that start at level 1, and likely scale or act as a defining feature for what makes that combination unique. But a new race would have to include their options for every class they can be.

The other option is just more polarizing racials, like
>all weapons elves use are magical

Hmm...something like you said with 5e could actually work fairly well. Having different subclasses of one overarching class.

It doesn't even really need to start at level 1, as those few early levels will have basic racial features coming into play more to have differences.

I certainly like the idea, though it would require a lot of planning, especially depending on how many races you had in total.

...

Yeah, the issue is how deep you go. I'd stick to human/elf/dwarf/orc and warrior/rogue/mage/healer archetypes, that's already 16 different "classes", any more and you'd likely want to restrict combinations. I might try working that into a system sometime.

You guys have anymore examples ? Would like your opinions on race vs class.

>Did you... ever play those systems? You never, ever got to those level caps.

Hobbits had a level cap of 4. Fucking 4.

Yeah, I might try and work on something simple myself. Maybe just some small tweaks to 5e to have subclasses restricted to race for simpler games.

Cyberpunk 2020

Yes, but only if it improves a hyper specialized archetype

Huh, I remembered it being 8, I'll take your word for it. Since you're calling them "Hobbits" are we talking about Whitebox?

OD&D, first printing.

>Should any player wish to be one, he will be limited to the Fighting-Men class as a hobbit. Hobbits cannot progress beyond the 4th level (Hero), but they will have magic-resistance equal to dwarves (add four levels for saving throws), and they will have deadly accuracy with missiles as detailed in CHAINMAIL.

So Hobbits are fighting men with some nice bonuses, and can reach level 4, Hero. Level 9, Lord, is the highest you can get.
If you use the Chainmail combat system, being a Hero is not bad. You're not going to stomp across the battlefield like Sauron against the Men and Elves, which really high level fighting men can do, but you're still a respectable opponent on the battlefield, especially with that missile specialty.

Eusociality can explain that. There's probably not many career options for sapient insects highly specialized for guarding workers and breeders.