If you were WotC, how would you fix Legacy?

Even more here we go

OG thalia (I'm just going as far back as INN here)
Griselbrand
Monastery mentor
Swiftspear
Gurmag angler
ABRUPT DECAY
fucking miracles?
Thoughtseize reprint
Expedition lands
Thespian's stage

I could probably go on

Ban any card on the RL and be done with it.
Reprint any staples that are prohibitively expensive.

If necessary, look at alternatives to replace the Duals with.

New phyrexia was designed with legacy in mind.

Either get rid of the reserved list or print duals that go around it, eg:
Sea Underground
Island Swamp
Taps for U or B
If you own and control ~ and Underground Sea, you lose the game.

When ~ ETB all players Scry 1.

Or just snow 'em. They wouldn't be functional reprints because Gifts cares about card names and Skred deals damage according to snow permanents.

Ban Terminus or Counterbalance. Neither would 100% kill the UW draw-go archetype but would discontinue the format having a tier 0 deck.

the only problem are the prices

The cards they design for eternal play are generally stupid. Mentor, TNN and Misstep, Cruise and Dig are all cards no one really wanted printed

The definitive way to ruin Legacy is to try to "fix" it. The only thing that could be worse is giving in to the whining.

>miracles is tier 0
Can we let this meme die? People who think miracles is overpowered just don't know how to beat it.

But I want to just jam the same 75 I always do and not have to react to the meta at all whhaaaa.

Alternatively, "Its the best deck. All these pros that don't play legacy played it"

Legalize [good-looking, legible] proxies (limit of like 10 or something as in Vintage).

Boom, suddenly the Legacy playerbase explodes as all decks lose $1000+ of their cost.

You also get to fuck over all of those jews in the secondary market who drove me away from this hobby years ago.

how to fix it:

1. Reprint shit
2. RL goes into the shitter
3. Make a legacy core set. Not some kind of a retarded limited print run 20 bucks a pack.

>tier 0 deck
>miracles
Just because it's hot, popular and actually good doesn't make it tier 0

Remove duel lands from the RL and reprint the fuck out of them, that should fix a good t0% of the problems since they are seriously by far the biggest problem in legacy currently.

>be deck that can answer everything in the format out of mainboard alone
>dont have any matchup south of 50 besides eldrazi and memepost latter of which no one plays
>be only reason why non-blue creature strategies are unplayable
>require multiple narrow sideboard bullets and still manage to play around them because you always dig your bullets more consistently or just fow anything thats not abrupt decay or krosan grip
>this is somehow healthy
>"lol learn to play"

Miracles saw a huge meta drop after people started siding against it. Winter Orb does wonders against the deck because they can't top efficiently.

what decks play winter orb?
that card is sick

Sure but again nothing prevents the cancer pilot from casting fow/cs/weartear/coucil's judgment on it or just blindflipping cb.

grixis delver runs it in the side and it's pretty brutal when you turn 1 deathrite and then turn 2 orb with a mana left to brainstorm etc.

I have a couple that sometimes go in the DnT sideboard.

Bad matchups for miracles:
Aggro Loam
Big Red
Tezzeretor
Post
Infect
Dredge
MUD

Slightly unfavored matchups for miracles:
Storm
Death and Taxes
Eldrazi
Shardless

>I can't afford something, so other people who can should be fucked over because it'll make me feel better

Found the Bernie Sanders voter

Also, Legacy playerbase would explode with a bunch of entitled nerds that will start complaining about only being able to use just 10 proxies after they don't win any games.

>all land types
So it'd be an Urza's Desert Forest Gate Island Lair Locus Mine Mountain Plains Power-Plant Swamp Tower?

I like it.
Turns on Urzatron lands more consistantly (yes, this is how it works, would say "land named" otherwise), Maze's End would get a second backup in edh (other being animating a gate then cloning with Sakishima), couldpost could tap for yet more, and it could be fetched by all the dual fetchers, on top of basically being a rainbow land.

It'd have to have some drawback that was better than anti synergy with other lairs and the inability to damage camels.

are vintage tournaments full of entitled nerds who complain that they can't use a full deck of proxies?

I don't see anything wrong with doubling the legacy playerbase, maybe then they would actually run tournaments for it in my city instead of constant garbage standard and EDH.

I suppose it would lower the value of duals and other legacy staples but cry me a river, maybe you should have made long term investments in something other than cardboard.

It would produce no mana to begin with, but have the following abilities.
R: This land becomes a basic mountain in addition to its other types
U: This land becomes a basic island in addition to its other types
B: This land becomes a basic swamp in addition to its other types
G: This land becomes a basic forest in addition to its other types
W: This land becomes a basic plains in addition to its other types.
Tap: Add (1) to your mana pool.

Forget the last line. Besides, it would be rare or mythic and legendary and not see any play.

Not wanting to shuffle with $100,000 worth of cards is a lot different than not wanting to with $1000-3000.

There's nothing stopping your local card store from holding a tournament with proxies allowed, it just can't be DCI sanctioned. If your local stores aren't doing that, maybe it's because they won't make any money if people proxy cards instead of buy them...

Well it seems at this point Wizards is going to have to do something drastic like allowing proxies in Legacy (easy solution but won't happen for money reasons) or finding some other work around if they are committed to never reprinting staples on the reserved list.

I agree. 10 proxies per deck shaves off around $700-$1,000 worth of cards per deck, drastically reducing the price required to enter into the format.

I don't understand why you think it's imperative for wizards to enable all players to play Legacy?

From a business standpoint, they make money selling new cards (for Standard), and have tried to push Modern which has helped the secondary market (local game store selling singles, starcity games, etc - which in turn benefits players ie: the large starcity tournaments/events). If you made Legacy on par with Modern in terms of cost of entry, it would hurt Modern and probably Standard as well (more Legacy tournaments = less Standard tournaments).

It's not like new players off the street are ever going to jump into playing Legacy off the bat. If you play standard for a while you'll accumulate cards for Legacy and Modern over time.

And if you are dead set on playing Legacy for pure enjoyment of the format, you would be far better off playing it on magic online where decks are much cheaper and you can get far more use out of your cards by playing any time you feel like it instead of tying up $1000+ into cardboard you can use only occasionally.

Or WotC could leave well enough alone. The format is doing fine without them.

Play MTGO!
Spend thousands of real dollars on digital cards!
Spend $10 to play in a league!
Win hundreds of Worth Fun Bux!
Earn enough Worth Points and you can participate in a Standard Tournament! (After you spend $300 on a new deck)
Meet silent new people!
See exotic, new bugs!
Experience cards working like they never have in paper!
Interact with a genuine antique interface!
Try to break even selling out!

>If you play standard for a while you'll accumulate cards for Legacy and Modern over time.
I don't know about that, how many packs of Eldritch Moon is that new standard player going to crack to get an Underground Sea?
Standard is so terrible and buying into it (and buying into it 3 months later, and 3 months after that etc) is such a waste of money for new players.
Which is exactly what WotC wants.

This.

That is an amazingly cool idea, user.

If no new players get into a format (vintage and legacy) they start to wither and die. Allowing proxies (which is mostly standard in vintage to even allow tournaments to exist) would let people save thousands on cardboard and allow older players to experience newer decks and styles due to the price blocksge being lessened.

>announce in 5 years, cards will be removed from the reserved list
>reprints will feature new art to keep old versions collectible
>limited print runs of Legacy Masters every other year afterwards, make sure it's available for purchase and not used for GP events or PTQs
>Legacy Masters can also contain cards needed for the format, such as new printings, that otherwise shouldn't be in Standard

The format doesn't need tinkering, it just needs to have new blood coming in.

Well if no one plays standard the game would be dead. WotC wants people playing standard, we can agree there.

I wouldn't call standard a waste of money for new players...theoretically the people playing it are having some amount of fun. If you win occasionally and have fun, it's not that expensive at all compared to other hobbies. Some of your cards will increase in value, you might win store credit at a tournament, you can trade for other cards too.

I don't see how letting players assemble a deck for a couple hundred dollars and use proxies for the rest, in a format that doesn't change very much over time, and have them saying "great now i never have to buy cards again" is good for WotC. It's also not good for the local game stores that run the tournaments. Money continually going into the game is what keeps it going.

From my understanding, and I could be wrong, but hasn't wizards been depowering standard for quite a while now? It's going to be very hard for new players to trade their creatures and conditional counterspells for modern staples, let alone legacy cards. Add in the fact that modern day sets are scaled to the massively increased player base, and you get a situation where its almost impossible to play older formats without spending a lot of money.
I also really feel bad when people show up to legacy events with shocklands, and I get free wins that way.
I do get that the whole magic economy is based around newer players not realizing how much they are being taken for, but this does not seem like a sustainable model.

Wait, what's wrong with Legacy? Every person I know who plays adores the format.

A majority of the suggestions for how to "fix" the format come from people who do not play it.

Why do we give a shit about them? Legacyfags have an entirely different perception of what makes for good MTG than a lot of the MTG playerbase.

I always worry that WotC will make decisions because of a vocal minority, like what happened in vintage with LSG

Ban all ten fetchlands

How has the typical price of entry for Legacy changed over the years? Google is giving me either useless info or data over way too short a time period. I think this is relevant to the discussion in that a massive increase over time in format staples would of course favor those who got in early, and gradually strangle interest from newcomers.

As a grumpy old gamer I know how hideously difficult it is to get new blood into a format not firmly pushed by the company, even when the price of entry is low. My entire group is literally dying of old age and it's not clear who will replace us.

Stop selling product to stores that host legacy events.

Print a bunch of stuff that rewards you for using basics and hoses nonbasics. Now eternal formats are split between players who abuse duals and players who basically say "Oh, you decided to use dual lands? You're going to have a very difficult time against me!"
That way you can cram them in your sideboard for if you fight people with WAY more money than you. For instance...

Greedy Ritual
R
Sorcery
Add one red mana to your mana pool for each non-basic land target opponent controls or is in that opponent's graveyard.
(Making it a sorcery means it's more likely to power out huge creatures and burn spells instead of use in broken combo decks)

Sophisticated Spider
GG3
Creature- Spider
Protection from Blue, Reach, Vigilance, Non-Basic Landwalk
6/7

Brain Bust
B4
Sorcery
Target player discards 3 cards at random. Brain Bust costs 1 less for each non-basic land that player controls or is in that player's graveyard.

Luddite Crusade
WW
Sorcery
You get a 1/1 Soldier token for each non-basic land and each artifact target opponent controls.
(Holy crap, I like this one, curves right into Glorious Anthem)

Expansionist Policy
UU4
Sorcery
Gain control of up to 3 target non-basic lands. This effect lasts indefinitely.

I haven't played Legacy in a while (last time was back around when Mental Misstep was banned), but I know it's easy as hell to cheat around the relatively high mana costs on these things.

Check this place out

Print
>Legendary Dual Lands
>Artifact, . Artifacts lose all activated abilities
>Artifact, 0. Sacrifice this, choose three, you can choose any more than once: add W to your mana pool/add U to your mana pool/add B to your mana pool/add R to your mana pool/add G to your mana pool
>Legendary Land. T: Add to your mana pool. When a land enters the battlefield under your control sacrifice this.
>Legendary Land. T: Add G to your mana pool for each enchantment on the battlefield.
>Legendary Land. T: Add G to your mana pool for each elf you control.
>Artifact, 0. As an additional cost to cast this sacrifice a land. T: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
>Instant, 1UU. Search your library for 3 cards of the same type, your opponent choses one, put that card into your hand and the rest into your graveyard in any order.
>Enchantment, 2WU. Non-flying creatures your opponents control can't attack.
Then ban all cards on the RL from Legacy.

the fuck are you doing nigger

Replace Legacy with Modern

>anti synergy with other lairs and the inability to damage camels

user, I like the cut of your jib.

They already gave up on Modern.

>Misstep

It wasn't printed for Legacy. They said they pretty much completely forgot to check how much it would affect Legacy during playtesting.

If you allowed proxies in legacy and the playerbase doubled wouldn't that just end up increasing the value of all the staples that are not the most expensive/proxied.?

Everyone proxies duals, LED, Wastes, Force.... Now Blood moon, snapcaster, counter balance, Top double in price.

>It wasn't printed for Legacy.
Do you have a source for that? Because my source disagrees with you.

>Force of Will has long been thought of as a card that helps keep combination decks in check in Legacy and Vintage. However, it doesn't directly help decks that aren't playing blue. One idea that was floated was creating a similar card that could be played in nonblue decks. When Phyrexian mana was designed, it was an opportunity to create such a card. R&D wanted a card that could help fight combination decks, and could also fight blue decks by countering cards such as Brainstorm. Clearly printing a card like this has a lot of risk, but there is also the potential for helping the format a lot. The risk is mitigated, because if it turns out poorly, the DCI can ban the card.

>Unfortunately, it turned out poorly. Looking at high-level tournaments, instead of results having blue and nonblue decks playing Mental Misstep, there are more blue decks than ever. The DCI is banningMental Misstep, with the hopes of restoring the more diverse metagame that existed prior to the printing of Mental Misstep.

Delete the banned print/reserve print lists.

REPRINT EVERYTHING.

Reprint anything that was already reprinted in Revised Edition.

Literally everything.

It blows my mind that they haven.t

>BUTTT DURRRR PEOPLE WILL LOSE TRUST IN WOTC AND STOP BUYING CARDS

WotC does not make any money whatsoever off of people reselling their shit or the secondary market. It boggles the mind. The only thing that makes sense to me is that there are WotC employees who actually have big stakes in the secondary market and use it to profit directly.

They shouldn't have made it fucking blue if they didnt want blue decks running it

As far as legacy goes. The only real problem is the prohibitive cost of entry and Reserve List ruining any chance of needed reprints.

Because of the pro tour? They did that to save modern you idiot

Thats really the only thing i can think of at this point. People having basement safes full of power and duals, that they want to retire on. Magic should be a game first and foremost, not a fucking stock market. They have mentioned the possibilities of getting sued or some shit if they abolish the RL, but i think thats a bunch of bullshit.

I was really excited about modern when it was first announced. I figured it might be like, a light blue legacey, then I looked at the baned list and saw that good cards arnt allowed to be played. lolnope.jpg

Legacy is doing exactly what WotC want it to.
They have no interest in actually letting the majority of players have access to it, then they might stop playing standard and buying a whole new deck every other rotation.
Right now, they get a lot of nearly free advertising from exciting, interesting high power legacy tournaments full of pros with names that people recognize playing decks that 90% of the playerbase can't afford. It helps maintain the image they want MtG to have, but it doesn't generally sell packs. An average set might have 1 or 2 legacy playable cards, so every time someone puts together a Legacy deck the secondary market gets 95% of the money.
And honestly, its better this way. If you want to play, you can proxy up a few decks and get a playgroup together for a few bucks worth of ink and a couple hours with a knife, some glue and basic lands.
If WoC gets more involved, they're going to want it more monetized. Look at Modern; they've turned it into an artificially rotating format by lowering the power level until each set has multiple new cards that will see play.

My philosophy: if I'm not playing professional Legacy, I have no desire to spend thousands on Legacy.

Since there is no professional events for Legacy exclusively, I have no desire to play Legacy.

Thus, all my Legacy cards that are valuable or useful go into EDH.

After all, EDH is the middle class Legacy that costs less, but with the same amount of fun. Since you're buying one copy of an expensive card instead of four, it fucks the Jews over as well. Even the shittiest cards can become useful in EDH.

Legacy doesn't need fixed. The people who complain about it need to realize that there are other alternatives that can suit them better.

Print a special set with strictly better versions of most cards on the reserve list and make sure its widely available. Ban all reserve list cards. Watch as speculators cry and moan. Laugh heartily.

>Since you're buying one copy of an expensive card instead of four, it fucks the Jews over as well
>Haha, I'll only buy ONE $1000 piece of cardboard! That'll show Shlomo!

>Aggro Loam
Chalice for 1 or bust, Terminus/Angels takes care of Knights and Goyfs, mana base is basically immune to Wasteland.
>Big Red
Meme deck, Fow their t1 play and you're set.
>Tezzeretor
No one plays this.
>Post
No one plays this.
>Infect
Depends on the draws, closer to 50/50.
>Dredge
Fow t1 loot spell slows down enough to get set up with counterbalance and EE for zombie tokens, g2/3 drop RIP/Priest/Snapcaster+surgical twice.
>MUD
No one plays this since Eldrazi.
>Storm
Debatable.
>DNT
Haha, Lossett considers this a bye.
>Shardless
50/50, just don't let the value elements resolve. Terminus/Entreat > Goyf and Agent
REB visions, plow DRS.

>legacy is dying format outside of MTGO and a few cities world-wide
>costs more money than most people who have already spent thousands on cardboars are willing to pay just for a single deck
>format is choked and held hostage by people who feel entitled to theor cards being worth more than the stock their printed on
>everyone who wants to play and support the format but cannot play due to logistical or monetary reasons are the problem

Let me guess, you also get pissed off when you see a video game you bought for $60 last year marked down to $20?

Abolish reserved list to make it more accessible for people

Other then that I wouldn't change a fucking thing. The more WotC fiddles with a format the worse it gets

This argument doesn't work because there are not Legacy Pro Tours or R/PPTQs and all but 3 GPs are Legacy.
If Legacy was as accessible as Commander, for example, people would still play Standard because that's the Pro Magic format because WotC wants it that way, period.

The people who play Standard would still play Standard. The people who don't and never will because they don't care about Pro Points and would rather play un-formats if they can't play Legacy, would however buy the shit out of a paper Vintage Cube even if it was gold-bordered.

WotC is shooting themselves in the foot by not tapping the casual oldfag market as hard as they could.

Aggro loam runs: Teeg, Bob, LotV, chalice. 4 cards right there that miracles needs to answer or die

If Big Red kept a one threat hand, sure. Of course, maybe we don't all live in Christmasland. In fact, your arguments for why dredge, infect and Shardless in particular read "if miracles has all the right answers for all of their threats, it wins". So yes, sure. If your control deck comes up with all the right answers, you're going to win.

"No one plays it" kind of defeats your own argument, doesn't it?

Death and Taxes vs Mentor or Entreat Miracles is very close. Maybe Joes build is way better against DnT. The Legends build is also way worse against the rest of the field.

Storm, vs a deck that can't apply life total pressure quickly. I'm about 60/40 vs miracles lifetime with ANT. I think that's about accurate for the matchup.

From the vault: Get meme'd on.
It's a FtV with all uncommon+ reserved cards.
Also unban baghdad

Thank god I cant afford buying that $1000 piece of cardboard!

That's right go-guy, demonstrate your financial superiority! I stand in awe of your fiscal might.
Now, since you're obviously such a sharp chap, I have an offer I'm sure someone of your extraordinary economic aptitude can appreciate. I've recently come into possession of the deed to the Brooklyn Bridge, and now I wouldn't make this offer to just anybody, mind.

I think the best thing Wizards can do for Legacy/Vintage is declare the formats are dead. Because what they're doing right now is saying nothing and leaving the formats with degenerative cancer that will take years to kill the formats.

They can say they're continuing to print Eternal Masters or whatever bullshit they want. But it would be nice if they were honest, even though it would impact sales somewhere down the line.

Of course the likelihood that they would do this is as low as them abolishing the Reserve List.

I don't understand why anybody in real life or here on this website believe the formats are doing okay. They're not. They're beyond fixing and it makes no sense to me that people here, a fairly honest place, can't see Wizards gives no fucks.

You fix legacy by not giving a shit about China men proxies, letting them reprint cards on the Reserved List while you pretend it isn't happening.

It's like anudda shoah

I'd either stop supporting it altogether or reprint all 10 dual lands as uncommon in a supplemental set. Wizard's half assed attempts to keep it a thing are insulting. At some point they have to stop and realize that the people who play their fucking game are more important than the secondary market. People aren't going to stop buying and playing the game if the secondary market implodes.

Instead of doing all out reprints, do you think it would help a little if the top 8 of every PTQ, GP and PT got a set of dual lands (regardless of the format)?

>Plus all those duals that have been hoarded by commander players over the last few years will make their way back into the market because they only need one anyway.

why would they not just play one real dual and one Legendary?

Announce that 32 cards will be taken off the reserve list in 2020, but don't specify which ones.

In 2020, remove all lands from the reserve list.

Nothing. Legacy is for elitists with more money than brains. Let them play against each other without supporting the secondary market with reprinted duals that won't go down in price at all. I mean seriously, did jtms or FoW go down in price after eternal masters?

Different from Modern how?

Ban fetchlands & duals.

I just think it'd be interesting on what kind of effect it would have.

Alternatively,
Print a fetchland that can only fetch shocklands, but you gain 2 life instead of lose 1 life on activation.

I'd fuck over the secondary market because grognards don't make money for mtg and don't crack packs anyway and Legacy is a shit format.

I'd fix it by offering print-on-demand older(4+ years) cards at a fair price. Essentially offer reprints of anything currently outside of standard and a little bit further back(or fuck, even modern, who gives a shit), so the prices for the new stuff can float up to the top and the shit can sink to the bottom. People still buy their boxes to keep up with standard, Commander and legacy players are happy because card prices level out and decks aren't put out of reach by money.

And if you wanted to appease neckbeards just put all the reprints in a funky, not as good looking border art or some shit, so the originals are still distinct.

Gas every little faggit kid who complains about muh RL so that Real Men can play in peace.

Allow for 60 proxies.

Somebody really needs to make a copypasta or image macro for this, but...

Wizards needs to protect the Secondary Market, because the support of Magic the Gatherin has been built upon it. Over the last fifteen years, the Secondary Market, be it SCG or even your LGS, has started to support MtG by putting out events, coverage, articles and advertisment. The Secondary Market is heavily invested in MtG and thus wants it to grow and thrive, so more people buy singles and drive their prices up. Singles Vendors are also a big source of direct income, because where the fuck do you think those singles come from? They buy tons of sealed product to crack it open, otherwise there would be no preordering or any decent amount of stock at all.
So, because they are good customers and, even more importantly, generate interest, WotC protects their investment and the market.

That's the single most important reason for their reprint policy. Not Standard, not Limited, not a fear of getting sued, not MaRo having his head up his ass.

Things could have turned out differently if there had always been an aggressive or at least more stable source of reprints, but that wasn't the case and this is the situation we ended up with.
So, as long as the system keeps working and MtG keeps growing, it will stay that way. So shut up, deal with it or play fucking Pauper.

>In 2020, remove all nonvalue cards
And people would have been sold their duals just because they tought they would be reprinted

Don't worry maro, chinaman are going to rescue us