"I've never played a Tabletop RPG before" introduction post

Thank you, I'll keep this in my already massive backlog of systems to check out.

On that note, do you of any one that is a of a light-hearted sci-fi genre? Like say, megaman legends dungeon crawling or something.

>consider Exalted
Why not Godbound, which is a better designed Exalted?

>do you of any one that is a of a
shit i think this african coffee im drinking might have ruined my brain already

Earth Based? Engine Heart.

Why not! I'll put that on the list. I think I'll expand the "Where do I go from here" to help people out more. Unless 50 people come in here and tell me that Godbound is another Fatal. Then I might reconsider. I haven't actually played it.

Shouldn't it be better to make a spreadsheet with a light description of each system?

learntabletoprpgs.com/index.html

Maybe. We could always make a separate spreadsheet of recommendations and link to that. Or even link to a "Veeky Forums recommends" within the post. I want to keep it short. I think 10 posts, even for my verbosity, is a little much.

Or even link to something like this:

>Engine heart
holy fucking shit Senpai this shit looks adorable. My group will love this, I am sure of it. Thank you a lot.

...

More superheroic games:
>Marvel Heroic
>AMP: Year One
>Faserip
>Supers: Revised Edition

Got it. I'll add that onto the list.

Also, reminder to self: Mini-6.

>friends
All my friends (grand total of ~= 5) are incredibly normie except one

Its not the 90s anymore user, normie play D&D now. My entire IRL group is normies nyself included

Well, more normies are playing than ever before. Float the idea of playing with them, and see what happens. You might be surprised.

I think we should include a category for ultralight beer-and-pretzels type games like Lasers and Feelings- stuff that lets you dip your toe in the water before learning a "real" system. Maybe even include stripped down versions of other systems like microLITE d20 and SW Test Drive (although not GURPS lite or FAE, since both are too long)

Also, shouldn't Fate and Dresden Files be lumped together?
Normies like nerd shit now. I've had a pretty easy time convincing friends to give it a try

That's gonna be a crap shoot. I've played with normies who get REALLY deep into it and want to go deeper. I've also played with normies who spend 2 minutes trying to rob someone, and when it didn't work out (not even just telling them no, I mean their skill check failed), they hop on their phone and disconnect from the session.

One way to tell if your friends are going to enjoy it is to give them riddles. Whether or not they solve it isn't a real issue, it's how much effort they actually put into trying. If they put no effort at all, and just ask for the answer, then they're usually going to be pretty uninterested from my experience.

If they put in no effort at all, and still solve it, you're probably looking at your new DM.

Hold on a sec, if you yourself are a new player forming a group with normies, who's GM?

>I think we should include a category for ultralight beer-and-pretzels type games like Lasers and Feelings
That's a pretty good idea. Maybe use as an introduction on a game night?

Also, I never played Dresden. I'm going to assume Dresden runs off the Fate system from your post and keep a remainder for that.

Whoever holds the cajones to pick up the DMG guide and read it all the way through first.

I've always been into Veeky Forums stuff, and people care sorts less about whether or not you're into shit like that when you're younger. GMd my first game when I was in grade 4, been running ever since. It's quite possible to be into Veeky Forums shit and still be a normie otherwise. I guess maybe I'm a cyborg, but really it's a silly distinction.

I have normies asking me all the time to run games for them.

>That's a pretty good idea. Maybe use as an introduction on a game night?
My thoughts exactly
>Also, I never played Dresden. I'm going to assume Dresden runs off the Fate system from your post and keep a remainder for that.
Fate is basically a generalized version of Dresden (which itself is based on FUDGE). There's not much point in differentiating between them, unless it was for a category that would apply to one but not the other

Whoever's most confident and has the least-shaky idea of how things should come together.
If you're all greenhorns, a prewritten adventure or module also might be a good idea.

As much as it's also a way to attract a certain type of asshole, this whole endeavor could really benefit from the Wiki model of organizing/cross-referencing information.

>As much as it's also a way to attract a certain type of asshole, this whole endeavor could really benefit from the Wiki model of organizing/cross-referencing information.
If we do that, I would want to limit it to just the recommendations section. I think seeing a large sticky would do wonders for incoming traffic, especially with the That Guy sections and the Where do I start sections.

I don't think DW is a bad game, but I think the idea that it's easy for beginners to get into is simply false. Or rather, it's easy enough for beginners to be players in it, but it asks more of a GM than something like OSR or even 5e.

That's a good point. The DM has to do a lot more work and it's more stressful on a beginner than it is an expert. I'll definitely just keep it in the Where to go next section.

I took this screencap for just such an occasion

Here's your reply

Is this what they call false-flagging?

Bump for more input.

help for GMs in a situation?

that is, the GM knows fuck all about playing the game, just like the noob players

>only suggesting D&D

Veeky Forums has a pretty good sticky for complete newbies that explains how to start exercising, complete with links to supplementary information and more in depth beginners guides. You might want to check that out as an example of how these sorts of beginners guides are structured, you could also check to see if some of the other boards have something similar as well.

>you need a guide on how to write a guide
>you need a guide to write a guide on how to write a guide
>you need a guide ad infinitum

>you need a guide to write a guide on how to write a guide
Veeky Forums already has one written, we don't need to write one

Are there alternatives to roll20? and Is M&M a good system to start playinh?

>Do you have alternative suggestions though?
Becmi/Rules Cyclopedia desu.

As a newcommer I always wanted to read about propper form, hope the etiquette part gets expanded.

Good Luck OP.

I've been interested in playing for years, unfortunately I am much too afraid to leave my house, let alone join a group. But that's a separate issue, and I applaud your initiative and good work OP, I hope your work here gets stickied. Thank you for making this!

The trick is to be able to run it confidently regardless. The players just need to put a bit of stock in the events as they happen, even if rules pushing the narrative don't stand up to scrutiny after the game. If it goes even close to well, they might not even remember things going off-script anyways.

Don't be afraid to make snap decisions or improvise. If you make the wrong ruling on something, just be willing to change it for future situations.

It's okay to ask the players if they know a rule when you don't, but if it's going to turn into a conversation or if you'll need to check the book just go with whatever makes the most sense immediately and check the actual rule later.
If you have someone who you know can find it in the rules fast, maybe let them do that while focusing on another matter in the game, and then jump back to that bit.

The first few sessions are a learning experience for everybody, but just be sure to have fun.
It might sound dopey, but the most important thing is that you enjoy yourself and the company.

Mongoose Traveller.

Man, just making a character in that is a great way to get someone to see the fun of RPGs.

Depends on how much a serious campaign is necessary. If you're fine with one or two sessions to try and get them into RPGs in general, Lasers & Feelings or Risus can work a treat.
I'd suggest Marvel Heroic but that game's dead due to licensing issues.

I didn't really cover too much on that part, because there is a LOT of "How do I GM from scratch?" advice out there, not just online and from other anons, but in the DM's section of almost every book out there. D&D's DMGs tend to be EXCELLENT at giving DMing advice. I might recommend a bit more on where to start learning, but I felt that the topics were adequately covered enough. Maybe considering putting in a few links or screenshots as well for newbie DMs? Thoughts?

I honestly wouldn't recommend anything from the OSR to a complete beginner. The mindset you need to play the typical Basic ruleset in general is so alien to a modern gamer's mind that I think that if they somehow survived the first ten characters they would be extremely put off by it. It's definitely not a game for a lesser breed of man.

I will try my best, but I think I got most of it. Not 100% sure though. Especially because there aren't a lot of things in the TRPG world that are truly universal like Metagaming and That Guys. Maybe it's because it's late and I can't think.

No, thank YOU.

Yeah, see, the few things I worry about with a big "start from here" list is

1. Decision Paralysis. The newbies might get shunted away if we recommend too much at them

2. Recommending them a game that they will never ever find players for, but someone mentioned it because it's their favorite

3. Recommending a game that's just not beginner friendly because the advanced players love it.

I am thinking though, that we should mention the three most popular genres. I'm thinking D&D 5e for fantasy, Shadowrun for Cyberpunk and Sci-fi, and then maybe a Super Hero one. But I also feel that Shadowrun itself might be too advanced for most entry levels.

Space
>Star Wars: Edge Of The Empire, Age Of Rebellion

While I'm pretty sure Wizards & Warriors and Swords & Sorcerers exist, it'll probably be easier to recommend the more popular retroclones like Swords & Wizardry, Labyrinth Lord, and Basic Fantasy RPG.
13th Age could also be used for the high-powered list.

>I'm thinking D&D 5e for fantasy
That's pretty safe. Between the Basic rules being free, the SRD, and an abundance of information on it, it's a good suggestion even if you don't normally care much for it or D&D.

Would you be comfortable playing online, and what's your schedule like for Saturdays?

> recommending pathfinder
5e is one thing, but jesus fucking christ why would you recommend starting with PATHFINDER?

Look, suggest simple systems, have like one simple and one 'advanced,' option for each mager genre.

They don't have to be these, but here are some examples:

FANTASY
Simple: BFR
Involved: Runequest

SCI-FI
Simple: Lasers & Feelings
Involved: Traveller

HORROR
Simple: Dread
Involved: Call Of Cthulhu

SUPER HEROES
Simple: Icons
Involved: Mutants & Masterminds 3E

-and for each have like a set of 3 Pros and 3 Cons.

Then maybe have a separate section discussing 5E the probable choice due to popularity, and covering the pros and cons in equal measure; perhaps touching on retro alternatives like the Rules Cyclopedia.

Just, seriously, don't ever tell people to start with [modern D&D/clones honestly].

Fair enough.

I'll throw that on the list.

That, and it's there. It's the most likely game they will run into.

Ah, actually, i don't recommend Pathfinder to start with at all. Of course, I address it. I have to, it's the second most popular RPG being played today, but I tell newbies to turn away from it due to complexity.

As for simple games, I'm not going to get too crazy into that. This isn't really about making a crazy detailed list of recommendations, it's more for getting them started on the journey, which is why 90% of the document isn't recommendations, its etiquette that isn't obvious or well explained to people who are just starting. I will mention a few more games for where to get started, but I'm looking for things that have a good beginners hook to them.

On that note, having thought about it overnight and in the shower, I think I actually want to avoid one-sheet rules like Lasers & Feelings. I looked over a few of the ones I have, and they pretty much assume that you've had some experience with roleplaying in general. The Shadowrun starter set gives you all the fluff and info you need and advice to run a single adventure. The 5e box gives you the things you need to run a full campaign complete with training wheels. Those are the kinds of things I would recommend to beginners. Things like Lasers & Feelings or We Be Goblins! are things that I would recommend an advanced GM use to introduce others to the hobby.

Remember, I'm trying to write this from the perspective of a group of 5-6 people who have never touched a TRPG or even have a good idea what its about from scratch.

We also need a "how do I find people" section where we run over the basics:

-get on google, see if you can find forums, webpages, blogs or whatever from a local group
-get on google maps and search for games workshop, roleplaying, games, boardgames, and some other keywords that might bring you to a shop at least remotely related to the hobby
-check out wizards of the coast website. They´ve got a game finder for DnD, and shops that host DnD are likely to host a few more games and be a local hub in general

-once you find a shop, go pay a visit. Talk with the owner/whoever´s there, check out if there´s some sort of board where people are putting offers looking for group and groups looking for players

-If everything fails, go down a step and start looking for related things. Maybe there´s a sorta medieval bar in town. Chances are you can find some of us over there at some point, go pay a visit and see what you can find. If there´s a university, go check out if it has clubs, or put a letter somewhere around it. Preferably in the sciences and humanities areas. This stuff is usually related with computer nerds, but the people who get into History or weird stuff like Classic Philology are likely to be into kinky stuff. Also rpgs.

-If all else fails, keep going. Chances there´s something in your town, unless you´re in the middle of bumfuck nowhere surrounded by people who thing Harry Potter is satanic. If nothing works, try getting some of your friends into it. As a last resource, or if you´re unsure, try getting some practice first through online games, which you can find through the game finder thread in Veeky Forums, etc.

Shadowrun is probably too advanced for a beginner. Between mundane, magic and matrix rules there's a lot to get a handle on even if you only focus on the rules governing your character. Besides that, there are too many options during chargen and that'll stop a lot of people before they even get passed skills.

All that being said I have no clue if there exist any simple Sci-Fi games.

WELL IT AINT GONNA BE ME

I seriously do not recommend using a full-fledge system like D&D for newbies. In my experience it only alienates more than welcomes them since they know literally nothing about RPGs and they have the attention span of a retarded autist. Literally go generic rules-lite homebrew, that is the only way to keep them focused long enough to learn the basic mechanics so that later on they can actually learn an actual system.

Just sayin' senpai

b8.

put Everyone is John somewhere

Yes. 100% agree. That one was a pure oversight on my part.

Very true. And the starter pack does get confusing at certain aspects. I'm honestly thinking about keeping it just to 5e for right now.

Well, obviously not Pathfinder or 4e. But I genuinely think 5e is pretty simple as is. There's only 30 pages of rules. And the LMoP is VERY handholding as it is.

Also, homebrew rules-lite requires someone at home to build it. Which if they don't know what an RPG is, are very unlikely to stumble upon the correct steps needed to make it, don't you think?

However, I will include a section that gives advice for "Hey, I played before and I wanna introduce my newbie friends but they all hate learning and rules. Wat do?" section.

Already on it.

Hum. Stuff like FATE is actually not that rules light and it requires some roleplaying experience to work - not to talk about a fuckload of GM work to get in the mindset. I´d put it in a different category (games that put game-y mechanics much more behind narration), and keep "less rules" for rules light systems like Small Towns or some other "ready to play in 20 minutes" stuff.

The last category seems to be directly connected to your "less rules and more narrative". Microlite d20 is a dungeon crawler, the opposite of stuff like FATE, but it seems to be similar, just simpler.

Maybe we should do two separate lists, one for "normal" games and another one for narrativist stuff? DnD will show up in the first list, so most newcomers will likely stick to that one anyways, and they´ll approach the systems in the other list knowing their close to cooperative storytelling than a game.

Which, by the way, is also something that should be explicitly mentioned somewhere. "Some of these are GAMES. You got resources, numbers and mechanics you can count on, and you have to use them to beat challenges, survive, etc., and if you fuck up you gonna pay for it. Many of them benefit or require to be played over a painted map or some other sort of board. Generally, you try to make the best you can out of every situation. Other of these are STORYTELLING. They lack clear mechanics and your character´s abilities are more blurry, and they´re more about telling a cool story. You´ll often decide to make your character suffer just because it adds to the story.

Most games tend to combine a little of each category, but their approach is usually made clear by their rules and mechanics. Here we separate them into two clear lists to make it easier for beginners, but don´t assume that the game category must be a glorified boardgame where characters are just numbers without personality or history and the storytelling category lacks all sense of conflict".

Also mention VERY SPECIFICALLY that it´s not about players vs. the GM, because the GM could always say "rock falls, everybody dies" and that´s it.

It´s about having fun together. The best GMs are those that bring interesting plots and challenges to the table. A good GM doesn´t try to kill the players, neither to save them. He offers them a cohesive, coherent, believable situation, and lets the players shape it.
A good GM also doesn´t try to tell a certain and definite story. The greatest thing in these games is the freedom they offer. The players WILL react in ways you never expected and fuck up your carefully laid plot, so don´t obsess. A good scenario with believable situations and characters that can react organically to the player character´s actions beats a solid but linear story that forces you to forbid players from doing a certain thing.

>Stuff like FATE is actually not that rules light and it requires some roleplaying experience to work
Really? I was always under the impression it was rather rules light, but I had not played it either. So my bad. I should point out though that the list is sort of meant as a "next step" to spread out, so I'm not 100% worried about complexity at that point.

>The last category seems to be directly connected to your "less rules and more narrative".
That category is actually meant for "Almost no rules" and "one-sheet" type systems. But you're definitely right, I should absolutely relabel that to make it clearer.

>Maybe we should do two separate lists, one for "normal" games and another one for narrativist stuff?
Hmm, I think that's starting to expand the scope of the topic more than what I wanted to really cover with this. Though, I've been having some thoughts about the way I want to set up the thread.

What I'm thinking right now is separate the individual topics into individual paste bins and then label them, similar to how a lot of generals in Veeky Forums do it.

So
>Topic 1
pastebin link for topic 1
>Topic 2
pastebin link for topic 2
etc.

And then one of those, if we get the time, could potentially be a wiki, or even just an image of the Veeky Forums recommended, where we list a bunch of different places you can go once you get acclimated. I WOULD like the recommended list to be something that we can edit, so we can keep it up to date.

That way, we can also better separate them, to incorporate your idea of labeling some as "These are games. These are stories.", as I do think that is a very good idea.

>Also mention VERY SPECIFICALLY that it´s not about players vs. the GM

I kinda covered that in the metagaming section, but you're right. That's a pretty important enough point I should stress that very specifically.

The second topic though IS covered under railroading. Take a look and tell me what you think.