Is there any justification for the forces of Chaos in 40k...

Is there any justification for the forces of Chaos in 40k? I know that in the past fluff they were more grey than straight up evil but is there any redeeming qualities of the forces of Chaos on the Galaxy at large? Also what would you say is a real world equivalent that is synonymous with Chaos?

No. ISIS in the real world is basically a real-life Chaos cult.

Agreed. Remove heretic/xeno/kebab.

There are no real world analogies for chaos.
The forces of chaos are one of two, either they are ancient space marine chapters who gave themselves to chaos in order to wage their civil war against a much larger foe, or they are cults that spring up worshipping the gods.

Then there are the deamons and some CSM who are just content with looting or following the whims of their god.

Chaos will always have a presence in the 40k galaxy since they inhabit the warp and as such are pretty much tapped into the psyche of everyone.

No, they are horrible lunatics and degenerates without any redeemable qualities. You can't say anything good about them.

Are you seriously asking for redeeming qualities for the forces of ultimate evil?

Chaos as a primordial force in the Immaterium might be beyond the concepts of good and bad, but the Gods and Forces of Chaos, both mortal and immortal, are the absolutely evil, they torture innocent populations and send their souls to living hell for eternal suffering unimagianble.

So to answer your question, no, ultimate evil usualy has no redeeming qualities.

I think I read somewhere once in old fluff that there are actually some Chaos worlds that are actually pretty normally functioning societies besides the whole cult worship going on. Might not be relevant anymore but still.

Yeah, they are incredibly rare high functioning autists of the Chaos realm

Chaos as a whole? No, they're a bunch of evil demons and their lackeys. Chaos individuals? Sure. Ahriman is pretty gray.

Nope. Pretty much the only "justification" I can think of is that empire is ruthless, messy and probably deserves to be destroyed in its current form, but replacing it with something even worse is no solution at all. And chaos is what made it this way in the first place.

>in the past fluff they were more grey than straight up evil

Not correct.
As always the forces of evil in a long running setting always start off as more evil before fagots decide they need redeeming qualities or something.

>Also what would you say is a real world equivalent that is synonymous with Chaos?

There's no real equivalent as their is no force that will grant you powers for being a bad dude.
The closest would be people debasing themselves and others for riches.

There functioning, but you more than likely wouldn't want to live there.

Unless the daily organization sacrifice of random segments of the lower castes of society is your idea of fun.

Where blood magic and sacrifice are how the economy is measured, instead of gap, it's gds (gross domestic sacrifice/slavery ). Sorcery empowering machinery or artifacts; while slaves toil in workshops and in the fields, even their deaths benefits the economy.

There are places like Q'Sal which functions on an assload of slave work/sacrifices and primary exports daemon engines.

There's got to be at least some justification besides personal gratifcation for joining Chaos.

Going by the books, being corrupted by Chaos is like wanking to some really nasty porn, and only when the Chaos gods abandon you/cum do you realise how badly you fucked up. It's bad luck they got corrupted but what are you gonna do.

Word Bearers tried to save Humanity 10,000 years ago and failed. The Primordial Truth could've enlightened and lifted Humanity as the true chosen children, -the- species, of the Gods, but the minions of the False One laid low the entirety of mankind. Now all Word Bearers do is attempt to enlighten those who are willing to accept man's salvation, and ruthlessly and violently crush those who do not.

We didn't listen, and now Humanity is facing annihilation, just like the Eldar.

Convert now Imperials, embrace Lorgar and his Truth or suffer torment for eternity in the empyrean.

>I know that in the past fluff they were more grey than straight up evil
hell, no


chaos apologists are a plague of the fanbase

The stereotypical Satanic cults from the 20th century.

Taiping Heavenly Kingdom?

>‘You do not just mean forming a new warband. You mean a new Legion. A new war.’

>His gaze never left mine. I felt it holding my eyes to his, felt the ambitious heat of fevered thoughts.

>‘A new war,’ he agreed. ‘The real war. We were born for battle, Khayon. We were made to conquer the galaxy, not to rot here in Hell and die upon our brothers’ blades. Who are the architects of the Imperium? Who fought to purge its territory of aliens and expand its borders? Who brought rebellious worlds to heel and slaughtered those who refused the light of progress? Who walked from one side of the galaxy to the other, marking their passage in a trail of traitorous dead? This is our Imperium. Built across the worlds we burned, over bones we broke, with the blood we shed.’

>What stunned me most was not his passion, nor even his ambition, though both were breathtaking in their scope. No, what stunned me more than anything else was his motive. I had expected a failure’s bitterness, not a champion’s idealism. He did not want vengeance, whether it was petty or ultimately justified. He wanted what was ours by right. He wanted to shape the Imperium’s future.

>‘You see it, too,’ he said, baring his teeth in a snarling grin. Like the rest of the Justaerin, his teeth were engraved with Cthonian runes of fortitude and resolve. They seemed very apt all of a sudden, in the smile of a pilgrim returning to his people to become a crusader. ‘You feel it now, don’t you?’

>‘A new war,’ I said slowly, softly. ‘One not born of bitterness nor founded on revenge.’

>Abaddon nodded. ‘The Long War, Khayon. The Long War. Not a petty rebellion swallowed by Horus’s pride and his hunger for the Terran Throne. A war for the future of mankind. Horus would have sold the species to the Pantheon for the chance to sit on the Golden Throne for a single heartbeat. We cannot allow ourselves to be used the way he was. The Powers exist and we can’t pretend otherwise, but nor can we allow a sacred duty to devolve into such weakness, as Horus did.’

-Talon of Horus

Abaddon and the Black Legion are good guys or anti-heroes. Whatever you like.

>believing that the jiggling imbeciles would consider anything as something more than a slave

>implying, in an universe where thoughts shape reality, truth is anything but the biggest of lies

I bet chaosfags don't even comprehend the gift of the old ones.

KILL MAIM BURN. KILL MAIM BURN

Please do forgive me fellow worshipper of the Blood God, butI believe it's MAIM KILL BURN, I am dreadfully sorry for interrupting, kindly ask your pardon, and wish you good day and many skulls taken in the name of our Lord.

The justification is you hate shit and want to murder it, gratify your desires, live forever and know the deepest secrets and locked powers of the galaxy. And if you somehow manage to be capable of doing that, the forces of chaos aid you. They don't aid you for you, they aid you for their own benefit that ultimately dooms you as a tragic figure who gets what they want at unthinkable costs. That's the best case, but you were fucked from the get-go anyway. What other justification do you need? Chaos followers are here to do bad stuff at the behest of insane gods, not hold territory and start families. The grim dark 41st isn't going to get better, so take what you can.

40K isn't moral grey. Its everyone as an exaggerated grotesque firmly located in the dark side of black. The ultramarines support a regime that sacrifices thousands of humans a day to a corpse emperor, and they're the good guys. Sure, its a matter of degrees and context, but all the factions are deeply flawed. That's the point. There can still be heroic, or even good action in these dire circumstances, but its a drop in the bucket at the buffet of the thirsting gods.

>any justification
The forces of Chaos are justified by the necessity of imbalance. When the Necrontyr rebelled against the natural order, they unwittingly brought evil into the world. However, the natural order was not "fair", it was not "good". The natural order was imbalance, for life cannot exist in stagnant equilibrium, and because life existed, therefore there was imbalance, and so there must come evil. The necrontyr were simply the catalyst, and the forces of chaos are the reaction. Q.E.D pseudo-science
>redeeming qualities
I am not sure what you mean by redeeming here. Certainly the forces of chaos are a decent, if a bit over the top faction. Without them I feel the warhammer universe would be lacking. Whether or not they are evil, that is up to the perspective you have on the universe. I think most people would just say they are evil, and there are really no reedeming qualities in terms of morality. I find it convenient myself to call them evil anyway.
>real world equivalent
I'd say it would be an abstract thing, such as war, death, injustice, chaos, imbalance. These things all exist and are certainly associated with the forces of chaos.

>I know that in the past fluff they were more grey than straight up evil

They've always been straight up evil.

So if somehow the warp was fed happy thoughts instead of constant war and violence, would the chaos gods become less malevolent?

>If something that will never ever happen happened, would this be the result?
It doesn't matter, and nobody cares.

In a world of overwhelming oppression from an uncaring authoritarian government chaos presents the individual a way out. It offers you freedom from you slavery and gives back to you based on your merit. With Chaos you get what you earn, which explains a lot about why people fall. Chaos often doesnt go well for the other people you are forcing into, but for the person seeking freedom, chaos is often the only choice

You just made the warp a darker place :(

Ahriman's band is the only non-evil, rational faction within Chaos. They are bitter towards the Imperium but they don't seek to destroy it. All they want is to restore the glory of Prospero.

I think over time it's gotten a bit twisted, no?

>Refusing Be'lakor's offer of friendship
>rational

I did a mistake in my previous calculations, but it seems to be a good conclusion that you have to mass produce good deaths at a higher rate than evil deaths to ensure that the warp will stabilize, assuming there is such a thing as a good death.

[citation needed]

That's not true. The Purge have realized the galaxy is unacceptably grimdark because Chaos feeds on life, and thus seek to cleanse it of every living thing so it can start over, but without Chaos. They're good guys, if you accept "ends justify means."

Word Bearers are semi-rational, I guess. They saw an irrational thing (Chaos), it fucked with them, now they want everyone else to see the "truth" as well. They're basically acid casualties from the 1960s who are like "just take a hit maaaaaaaan, you've gotta see, like, the universe is love and shit, man." Except replace "love" with "terrible and subject to basically no physical constants lol"

There are others as well, I'm sure.

>They're good guys, if you accept "ends justify means."
Well, duh, they don't fuck around, but it's not like the loyalists are any better in this regard.

"The First Prince" audiobook.

Link plox

Chaos is supposed to be the primary colors of evil. Eigen-evil (eigen-vector). They aren't straight evil they're gay for their specialty. OCD serial criminal. Four Sid 6.7's each with their own specialties.