/cofd/&/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

> /pol/ specimen having a sperg fit
Take your pills and retreat back to your containment board.

I don't see how, especially considering they released an explicitly scifi game (Demon) and they're doing it again (Deviant). Scifi repeatedly shows up in the inspiration section.

> Demon
> explicitly scifi
One word: simulacrum.

You'll have to be more clear.

Although on that note, there's also Promethean to counter the "WoD is thematically antithetical to SF" statement.

local supermarket should carry them on the cheap.

> You'll have to be more clear.
lmgtfy.com/?q=simulacrum
> there's also Promethean to counter the "WoD is thematically antithetical to SF" statement
Are you trolling or are you really clueless? Regardless, I giggled.

Frankenstein is sort of important to Science Fiction as a genre, dawg.

That Promethean takes inspiration from Frankenstein doesn't make it the thing itself, mate. You'd think. That, and there's some centuries-long gap between the works, with an awful lot of context to fill the gap.

I dunno, I feel like you're trying pretty hard to be contrary here.

But more power to you.

I know what simulacrum means. But you'll have to elaborate on how it's related to your argument. Also, have you read Promethean, or...? Because it's very Scifi.

So? You're arbitrarily going "it's not scifi, it's antithetical to scifi" when the game literally has robots. It lists Heinlein, Asimov, Lovecraft, Terminator 2, Weird Science, Memento, District 9, Bladerunner, and The Incredible Hulk in the Inspirational Media page. And just because Frankenstein is old doesn't mean it's any less science fiction.

You're going to have to actually give me a *reason* for why WoD is ill suited to SciFi, because it certainly seems like the people involved in the creation of the game disagree with you. You need to have an actual argument for people to take you seriously.

All right, let me spell it out for you: SF is (supposed to be) materialistic, while WoD is about the most idealistic Veeky Forums franchise out there. Having blasters and spaceships doesn't make it SF, nor being placed in the Stone Age make it not-SF.

Has anybody said the Cheiron Group will be a big player in Deviant? I feel like this is/should be a big theory.

But that's wrong... In several ways.

I don't see how Scifi is "materialistic"
I'm not sure how WoD is the most idealistic Veeky Forums franchise out there (what about... Exalted? D&D? Literally anything?)
I don't see how idealism is antithetical to Scifi anyway, since so much of it is idealistic.

They'll probably do a sort of 'If you have Hunter: The Vigil, you might want to use groups presented there, like Task Force Valkyrie or Cheiron Group in your chronicles.'

and that is all.

If you read "Mirrors", it describes itself as a Space Opera, which very loosely paraphrased means a character driven drama set on a scifi back drop.

It's a real genre, and happily bridges your two stagnant definitions.

> I don't see how Scifi is "materialistic"
That's a problem on your end.
> I don't see how idealism is antithetical to Scifi anyway, since so much of it is idealistic.
Ah, so you're just a Yank who doesn't even know the proper definitions of "idealism" and "materialism". I have no desire nor energy to educate you, so go do it yourself.
Space opera is likewise antithetical to actual SF. Your ignorance gives you confidence, but it does not make you right on its own strength.

I WANT FORGE MASTERS AND I WANT THEM NOW!

I feel so stupid when we played Mage 2e assuminh spells had base potency of 0. So we always had our spells potency at Arcanum-1 instead of 1+(Arcanum-1)

You're getting pretty pompous for someone arguing semantics. That was my first comment, and you still couldn't resist an insult, could you?

There was a neat little Neil Gaiman story about a bunch of genetically engineered people on a space ship who had pale skin, long life and could subsist only on blood in order to live extended periods in the vacuum of space. That's a pretty neat twist sci-fi twist on vampires.

First you accuse me of using stagnant definitions and then you claim I insult you. Have you no decency?

It's more like "space fantasy", to be fair. Though there's also Cyberpunk Mirrors, and also Cyberpunk in Demon.

You're trolling at this point. Make an argument or don't. No one cares.
But for everyone else? WoD is perfectly compatible with Science Fiction.

I'm pretty sure he'd also argue that something like Star Trek isn't scifi.

You did insult him. You called him ignorant. Are you really this incompetent? Not even ten posts into a new thread and an argument started. Are you the same person from the last thread? You seem like you are.

> No one cares.
An idiot's last line of defence. You insult yourself.

>Genres can either be A or B
Hey here's three or four examples of how that's not really the case
>Those don't count
You're making very static claims, and when provided examples of how your definitions might be a bit too rigid, you just say "nope" and then start calling us idiots.

Your definitions are stagnant, nigger. There's your insult.

Why isn't there a Spirit of the Earth in CoD?

You are a petulant little shit, aren't you?
You don't have an argument, either, do you?

WoD shares a lot of themes with science fiction, because science fiction shares a lot of themes with horror. I mean, I don't even know how to approach countering the argument "they're not compatible" because I have no idea why you'd say they aren't, and you're doggedly refusing to actually engage in a discussion about the topic you started. The most recent games are entirely based on Science Fiction concepts.

Who says there isn't?

Gaia presumably exists and is Incarnae-tier like Helios and Luna, she's just--like the other ultrapowerful spirits--chilling out (probably in the center of the earth) and being incredibly powerful without any real reason to act on the world.

Are there terran spirits from her court running around? Seems odd that you're more likely to run into a Solar or a Lune.

There is. There are very few references to Gaia's existence, such as a throw away line in Imperial Mysteries about how no mage, even an Archmaster has survived an encounter with Gaia. She'd be above Helios and Luna in power and presumably not as nice as oWoD Gaia.

> Genres can either be A or B
When genres are influenced by philosophical paradigma and when A and B are each other's direct opposites, yes, they can only be A or B. Your militant idiocy gives you no points.
> You don't have an argument
I already stated my argument. If you're too stupid to comprehend it, that's your problem and not mine.
> WoD shares a lot of themes with science fiction
"Robots running around" isn't a theme, you vapid cunt. Your incapacity of seeing beyond the form shows you for a fucking idiot who must be put down for his own good.

Sure, probably.

Helios and Luna have interests on Earth. Gaia just don't give a fuck. She doesn't show up because she's a rank 9 spirit whereas Luna and Helios are only rank 8. Its the same reason you don't see the metaphysical embodiment of death running around either.

There are a *LOT* of philosophical paradigma that make up the science fiction genre. The genre is literally just "fiction that focuses on science".
Robots running around isn't a theme, it's a genre convention, and "what makes a person a person" IS a science fiction theme. Frankenstein is a science fiction novel. A.I is a science fiction retelling of Pinocchio. Blade Runner is a science fiction movie. These all share themes with Promethean.

You have done nothing in this argument (or the last one) except BEG THE QUESTION and assume your own intellectual superiority. And, yes, this time I do mean it in the formal logic sense that you are assuming that your position is correct because it's correct, as well as the vernacular usage in that you are literally dodging the fucking question and refusing to give a straight answer.

What themes of science fiction do you feel are incompatible with World of Darkness. What themes of World of Darkness do you feel are incompatible with science fiction.

You've done a lot of saying "I'm right and you're an idiot" (which, if you want to go on fallacies, that's everyone's favourite), but you're really just trying to hide the fact that you said something stupid and can't back it up.

One of the books proposes a distant Sothic Turn when mankind has died and a handful of mummies arise from the red dust on Mars. That could be an awesome one-shot or Sybaris vision, if nothing else.

why you gotta make Eclipse Phase look bad, user

it's bad enough that the writers are anarchists

Just fuck off, you literal autist.

Anarchists? My understanding was that EP is extremely left wing?

well OP pic is basically angel_emigres_to_do_its_work.jpg

You do understand that only Yanks think that anarchists can even be rightists, right?

To the point of "capitalism is mustache-twirlingly evil, religion is exclusively a thing of regressive bigots, intellectual property is theft, the ideal society is anarcho-collectivism without any authority or laws."

For a game about utter freedom of body and identity, queer stuff never comes up, and a hilarious amount of space goes to portraying the absolute evils of any system that uses a monetary system beyond reputation. I still love EP, but gpddamn do the writers irk me sometimes.

In transhumanism queerstuff is bottom barrel stuff compared to your conciousness freed from fleshly inhibitions

> queer stuff never comes up
It's never more than a passing mention, but it's there nonetheless.

After you. I legitimately wanted to hear why you thought that way, but you're too interested in jerking off

I've never heard of anyone who thought anarchism was right wing.

I thought there was some queer stuff. Dysphoria is a mechanic, even.

>One of the books proposes a distant Sothic Turn when mankind has died and a handful of mummies arise from the red dust on Mars. That could be an awesome one-shot or Sybaris vision, if nothing else.
With a game with Mummy's premise, it's amazing that there hasn't been anything for the NEXT Sothic Turn, when everything is spacey

You'd think a setting whose core hook is "your identity is wholly different from the body it's in" would at least have some they pronouns.

>tfw diehard lefty but hate anarchists

Hey, is there any reason Mortal Remains isn't in the pastebin or mega.nz?

> diehard lefty but hate anarchists
Are you at least a socialist? I die a little inside every time some barely-even-centrist neolib whines about actual leftists, even if they're stupid anarchists.

Go buy it, it's good!

Original meaning of Anarchy is only non acceptance of authority not non acceptance of order and structure.

And?

I'd expect Space Mummy when they do a Shard book, either after Dark Eras 2 or in a 2e Mummy Storyteller's Guide.

Of course! The Scandinavian model seems pretty ideal, but I think it would fall apart on the scale of the USA. Canada seems decent enough at things as well, all things considered.

>not being an anarcho-monarchist

Is there any rpg that goes to antiethical to your political views that it becomes unplayable? I know lots of right wingers still enjoy Wod/CofD

I think most people hate anarchists actually.

Which is why they just aren't popular.

I mean, I think we can all have fun playing morally bankrupt capitalists or religious zealots; the latter is my preferred fantasy archetype just because of how goofy it is.

But you wouldn't catch me dead playing anything crunchier than CofD or Red Markets.

I thought Anarchism is just a society where individual rights is paramount over collective will? Naturally democracy is unethical to this kind of society

> Of course!
> The Scandinavian model seems pretty ideal
I always forget that to non-socialists socialism means "capitalism with somewhat higher taxes".

You would think so with the way people react to some games. But in the end, I'm having trouble thinking of any game that would make people ragequit from the base rules.

Unless you are so conservative you quit CofD or DnD because you think it is 'satanic' or something. But that isn't really about political views at that point.

I run sci-fi games with CoD all the time. It's great for horror sci-fi, the fringey, x-files style of thing. Those are probably my favorite campaigns in this system ,desu.

You're gonna have a real tough time making real socialism happen without bloody revolution (or founding your own nation-state with only volunteers) in a world that still flinches when anyone associates socialism/communism with the Soviets, which isn't fair but it's where we're at. The best road to socialism is a gradual creep of socialist policies in an established, capitalist nation.

Though now you have me wanting to do an international Brigades historical setting.

Socialism pretty much has no hope in a political climate that's quickly becoming a capitalist left and an anti-capitalist right.

What? That makes no sense. WoD works great with science fiction, as long as you don't go too high on the fantasy. Even then, it might work fine if you make a couple of adjustments.

Obligatory

See, you're a typical neolib. You're barely even a centrist, so why the fuck do you call yourself a diehard lefty? Fuck off.
Two hundred years ago openly speaking in favour of trade unions was a criminal offence in "civilised" countries, what of it? Belief in the end of history is self-disproving.

All right, I read your post to its end and retract my words: you're centre-left. Still fuck you for calling yourself a diehard lefty.

>the social left doesn't exist

I freely admit that I'm not enough of an economist to take a hardcore stance on it beyond left of the American center (because it's all I know), but progressivism is just as much a cause as dismantling the capitalist machine.

but how about vampires, guys

If you admit that you're not lefter than the Yank centre (which firmly in the right, by the way), then why the fuck do you call yourself a diehard lefty? Rightists pretending to be left is a pet peeve of mine, so you should understand where I'm coming from.
> how about vampires
The most boring line after furries and mummzzzz.

Qt promie

I don't really get why you're calling a social progressive who likes socialism but think it's unfeasible in today's political climate a rightist but okay, user.

And you can talk shit on Mummy for days, but there's no disputing that VtR is a damn solid game. It sets out to be one fairly straightforward thing and nails it.

Ehh, honestly, gradualism can be annoying in the modern day political climate but it doesn't necessarily make someone less-left.

That's just the method anyway, if the goals are extremely leftist, then they're still left-wing, not center.

> I don't really get
I've spoke with enough people like you to know to not take your words on face value.
> VtR is a damn solid game
I liked Blood and Smoke the most of any other corebook, but it was fucking boring nevertheless.
Except that gradualism is more often than not an excuse to not even attempt to change the status quo.

This is boring, stop.

I wish you the best of luck with your glorious overthrow of the system and with writing the world's most gripping roleplaying game core rulebook.

...

It'll probably be a criminal offense again by the end of the century. It's going to be a real rough time for leftists and libs, and a lot of people will end up dead after whatever far-right political experiment tech moguls cook up collapses.

This thread is awful, I'm going back to the 90's.

Is that code for playing in a cWoD campaign?

qt demon

Alchemists are literally Heroes.

Seems more like Deviant.

In that they get their powers from killing Prometheans and Matt doesn't want to focus on them as player character types because they'd be out of theme for the gameline? That's really the only similarities.

Take me with you, I'll pitch Changeling the Lost to 90s White Wolf and see what happens.

> That's really the only similarities.
Those are the defining qualities of both, so…
> Matt doesn't want to focus on them as player character types because they'd be out of theme for the gameline
They are still a botched attempt at justifying why these seemingly perfectly playable characters shouldn't really be played.

Can anyone tell me what exactly is a deviant?

They're both painted as universally wrong and bad and evil except for a single sidebar. People get upset because they can't imagine having to be creative a bit and create characters rather than stats.

Basically a promethean without the disquiet mechanics that's hunted as if it were a demon.

The book literally says "not all Alchemists are crazy, we're specifically talking about the assholes who hunt and murder the Created to eat the delicious candy goo inside them," and beyond that Matt said he might do playable Alchemists in a supplement. Calm down.

And once the DE Companion hits, the Sekhem Sorcerers should provide an acceptable stopgap.

> The book literally says
It contradicts itself. I'm not complaining about alchemists and heroes being unplayable, I'm complaining about their writing being absolutely terrible.

Is the Dark Eras fiction anthology worth the 5 dollarydoos?

They're not really the defining qualities of both. Powers are never someone's defining qualities (which is good, because Hero powers aren't that interesting).

Also, it's not a botched anything. It's a perfectly legitimate reason.

But that's not true, in either case. Hell, plenty of places in Heroes talk about good Heroes, and there's even a section on healing them.

But because they don't focus on good Alchemists, that means that the book treats them all as evil monsters!

How is it absolutely terrible? People I know and talk to and who I trust like them. Why is it that Veeky Forums is always so dumb and wrong and thinks everything is garbage?

I mean, it's no Mummy fiction, but it's still pretty dang good.

Yes, I spun together and expanded a little on Infinite Macabre and Bleeding Edge and wove up my own proper scifi setting. I've run a few short games in it so far, it's actually been way better horror than anything else I've ever run.

The best set up I've run by far was the PCs were on a small freighter running a mapping expedition of the outer gates, when they found themselves trapped on the other side of a gate which had been damaged (Gates being essentially indestructible) and were confronted with the prospect of about 2 years worth of travel by the (comparably slow at ~1000c) hyperdrive to get to human controlled space. Where they had brought a little over 2 months worth of food (If rationed correctly) and in a setting with no cryo.

What followed was a romp through dead worlds, and the slow moral degradation of the crew as they transitioned from merely being paranoid and afraid of alien lifeforms after a couple of incidents (that considerably accelerated the wear and breakage of the ship itself), to the grim realisation that every time they found alien life that was friendly, they would have to beguile, kill and eat them, as the only source of protein they could get in deep space.

Are you being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian or are you really this stupid?