Suppose you were making a Pokemon-like game.
What sort of system would you create to group monsters in similar to how Pokemon does types?
Would you do weaknesses and advantages based on Elements? Or on Species? Would you even use Elements? Or would you perhaps use something totally different like Planets or something?
I'm open to any ideas.
Trying to group your monsters with elements will invariably end up with either comparisons to pokemon or comparisons to every other RPG ever that has elemental attributes.
Personally, I want to see a monster system based on the Tarot's Minor Arcana and the mythology behind it. I think it'd be interesting, especially since you could try and fit in the mechanics of various card games.
no not personas those use the major arcana
I think the most important part is to decide what defines the groups you use.
Every group is a species, every group is a concept, etc. Not ice vs. birds vs. the physical embodiment of tax returns.
I get what you mean, and I actually thought the same thing. I actually own a deck of Tarot cards. I think it'd be kinda hard to vary monsters off of the 4 minor Arcana (Swords, Wands, Pentacles, and Coins).
Though those 4 could very well work as a specific theme for a set of monsters.
What I've done is I've created categories based on Species to kinda cover all my bases:
Homonids
Plants
Reptilians
Insectoids
Dinosaurs
Golemns
Beasts
Avians
Piscines
Amphibians
Serpents
Amoebas
Undead
Machina
Fairies
Demons
Spirits
Dragons
(Mythical Creatures)
(Deities)
*Species can combine. So you can have a Demon or a Homonid/Demon
But I also wanna incorporate some other layer to it. I find it kinda weird that some species would have advantages over others, and a higher "elemental" factor could very well dictate habitat, as well as movepools and such.
Doesn't have to be element.
Anyway, it's not an overly serious idea. I'm just a drawfag, and I like to draw different things, so I often give myself little projects to work on to practice various things. In this case, i just wanted to draw monsters and stuff. But I do put a fair amount of thought into the coherence and what and how and whatnot, rather than just toss something together and call it a day. I treat it as if it were a legit project I were working on.
Yeah, like I said, I created various groups of species to work with. And then I created a listing of rarity, going for the five basics:
Common
Uncommon
Rare
Legendary
Unique
And then, my initial system was elemental, and it went like:
Elements-
Spirit
-Spirit
-Zen
-Holy
-Chaos
Fire
-Fire
-Lightning
-Magma
-Destruction
Air
-Air
-Sound
-Wind
-Sand
Water
-Water
-Steam
-Ice
-Toxin
Earth
-Earth
-Natura
-Clay
-Metal
But that feels overly generic. I came across the idea of planets, and I there might be something there, but idk what to do with it.
Oh yeah, I was also thinking that instead of having a chart of Elemental weaknesses and stuff, it'd be better to just have advantages be dictated by certain moves.
Like, this move's effect is that it's very effective against Avians, or Fire Elementals, etc...
But then again, I feel like it's the simplicity of Pokemon's type chart that makes it so successful, since people can very quickly adopt and create things using it. It's easy to grasp and easy to understand.
In my autism, I actually rebooted the pokemon types because they aren't quite the way I would do it.
Water
Fire
Wood
Psychic
Dark
Normal
Electric
Earth
Wind
I think you could reclassify each pokemon into those categories without too much trouble.
Not bad. Not bad at all.
How about using the zodiac?
What about spirits and ghosts and stuff?
Also why Wood and not Nature, which would include Poison and Insects.
And why Wind and not Air, which could include sound?
Also, are you including Steel with Earth?
What about Dragon?
And if you grouped Ice and Water together, why not just group Fire and Electricity together considering both are Plasma.
And how do you match up the Weaknesses.
I would have those types:
Sky
Life
Walking
Light
Vapor
Cure
Three types, depending where they dwell.
Water
Earth
Sky
Alright, after playing around with it a lot, this is what I came up with:
I took the 7 traditional planets, and split them into Yin and Yang, negative and positive, for a total of 14.
Sol
+Anima (life-giving force, collusion, order)
-Fire (includes Magma)
Luna
+Mind (Zen, Psionic, opposite to Spirit, intuitive)
-Water (includes Steam and Ice)
Mercury
+Sound
-Air (includes Wind, swiftness, rapid movement, agility)
Venus
+Charm (Magical force, purely emotional, feminine, opposite to Destruction)
-Poison
Gaia
+Natura (wild nature, growth, plants, includes Wood)
-Earth (the nurturer, stable, does not include metallic minerals, does include crystals)
Mars
+Vigor (enhancements, courage, Willpower, etc...)
-Destruction (Physical Force, negative Vigor manifest, masculine, opposite to Charm)
Jupiter
+Lightning
-Metal (the protector, a more powerful Earth, includes all Metallic Minerals, and Magnetic forces)
Saturn
+Spirit (Opposite to Mind, Etheric, ritualistic)
-Chaos (life-taking force, expansion, disorder)
Errr, 8 traditional planets for a total of 16. I forgot Gaia as Earth wasn't originally part of the Astrological planets.
>Sol and Luna
Wait, what civilisation had the sun, the moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn as their traditional planets?
Alchemy
en.wikipedia.org
It actually wasn't just one, but in fact all of the stargazing cultures.
Interesting. I like it.
Now I'm trying to think of 'elements' that have both positive and negative aspect but I'm having a hard time thinking of examples at all, let alone good ones.
Something like
Growth - Contagion, corruption
Chaos - Luck
Charm - Seduction
Eh, needs work...
Use the chinese 5 elements system.
They cover various concepts:
Fire - well fire, light, warmth, destruction and crafts.
Water - water, liquids, ice, blood, freshness , adaptability.
Wood - life, living matter, wind (it's under this yep), lightning (yep this is also under this part), flexibility.
Earth - most forms of solid mineral matters excluding metals and crystals, stability and strenght.
Metal - metal, crystaline matter, death, endurance.
I bet someone could make a system based on the Sephirot.
Sephirot, meaning emanations, are the 10 attributes/emanations in Kabbalah, through which Ein Sof (The Infinite) reveals himself and continuously creates both the physical realm and the chain of higher metaphysical realms.
en.wikipedia.org
Keter - "Crown"
Chochmah - "Wisdom"
Binah - "Understanding"
Daat - "Knowledge"
Chesed - "Kindness"
Gevurah - "Severity"
Tiferet - "Beauty"
Netzach - "Victory"
Hod - "Splendor"
Yesod - "Foundation"
Malchut - "Kingship"
There are very, very few pokemon I would consider putting into Wood. I feel like it was jntended to ecompass all Grass types but it really just excludes nearly all of them.
I made a thing.
Now I need to figure out what beats out what and whatnot.
Moon- Love, justice
Mercury- Water, wisdom
Mars- Fire, passion
Jupiter- Thunder, courage
Venus- Love, beauty
Pluto- Spacetime, change
Uranus- Sky, flight
Neptune- Ocean, embrace
Saturn- Destruction, silence
Spacetime feels like it would be the most OP of them all, considering the magnitude of it.
How about Death and Decay for Pluto, all things considered.
No compromises.
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh
I've done a system like that with the four classical elements, with each having light/positive, dark/negative, and neutral aspects.
>Earth (neutral)
Core concepts are gravity, immutability, order, and dryness. In terms of materials, covers soil, stone, minerals, and metals.
>Garden (earth/light)
Covers the concepts of fertility, growth, sustenance, nurturing. Includes plants and regeneration.
>Underworld (earth/dark)
Focuses on death, depravity, and darkness. Includes necromancy.
>Water
Major themes are fluidity, passivity, calm, cold.
>Wellspring (water/light)
Focuses on purification, healing, and genesis.
>Abyss (water dark)
Emphasis on terror, isolation, oblivion, and despair.
>Air
Major themes are swiftness, transience, levity, and spontaneity. Includes lightning.
>Heavens (air/light)
Deals with themes of wonder, inspiration, beauty, and fate.
>Miasma (air/dark)
Covers pestilence, corruption, and turmoil.
>Fire
Major themes are passion, forcefulness, change, and innovation.
>Sun (fire/light)
The element of light, warmth, glory, and hope.
>Perdition (fire/dark)
Emphasizes destruction, suffering, and hatred.
Ok, I got it.
Basically, the Planetary sign determines the two elements available to a monster, but it also determines its weaknesses to certain elements.
You are tied to ONLY those two elements based on the sign. So for example, you'll never see a Gaian monster use Fire moves for example.
However, the Yin and Yang determine the STAB. So, though for example, a Sol sign monster can learn Anima and Fire moves. Only Yin Monsters get a stat boost for Fire, and only Yang monsters get a stat boost for Anima attacks.
Yeah, I can work with this. it makes sense, it sorta follows Pokemon, but it's unique in its own right.
Well, that was fun.
YES. I like it.
I was also going to suggest using the four classical elements, using overlap to produce variety in the basic nature of the creature or effect desired.
Water + Earth = mud
Earth + Air = dust/sand
Fire + Water = steam
And so on.
Destruction, followed by Chaos, look pretty powerful. I feel sorry for water and earth.
Destruction is pretty powerful, but Mars is weak to 5 different elements, and only has 3 resistances. It's also weak to itself.
Chaos on the other hand corrupts, so while also strong, it takes flat damage from pretty much everything, and gets wrecked by pretty abundant typings.
Water and Earth elements are pretty weak in terms of matchups, but they do come paired with Mind and Natura respectively. So they'll have access to those moves too. Gaia Monsters don't have many type advantages, but that could be balanced put by giving them good base stats, as well as making them more abundant. Kinda how MtG handles Green.
Lunas on the other hand could be more utilitarian, with Water hitting flat pretty much across the board. Water and Earth are some of the only weaknesses for one of the more powerful types. Sols.
I made a system like that, but for a comic I was writing. I think I changed some things though, not sure what. Lemme go digging.
Reminds me of Planescape.
Yeah, here's the design document in case you're interested. It's still a WIP as I continue to build the lore for the story. Go down to "Learning Thaumaturgy" if you want to read the actual Magic system itself and skip all the back stuff.
docs.google.com
It's basically a magic system I made for a sci-fi fantasy comic I'm working on, called Muse. It's set on Mars and focuses on Nine Homonculi created using the philospher's stone all named after the Muses.
I kinda wanted to have a contrast between Magic and Magitech for the setting. With the magitech being like applied Magic based off modern science. Still working on a lot of stuff, and working and reworking the setting. As it stands, I've basically split the story in 5 parts.
But yeah, the magic system takes inspiration from HxH and a bunch of other stuff. It's pretty thorough. It's built around Hermetic alchemy, so I play around with the classical elements, and paired them up and stuff.
>Homonids
An entire species of gays? Or are they just all built the same way?
Lol
Misspelled.
It's supposed to be "Hominid" as in, anything with a human-like appearance.
I'd like to do something with the five Chinese elements, but I don't really know enough about the deeper mythology behind them to do it justice.
I also thought about this and decided on a two way elemental system.
The first element describes what the body is made of. Flesh, Crystalline, Rock, Ice, Gas, etc.
The second element is what the creature controls or is associated with. Fire, Electric, Magic, Psychic, Death, etc.