/tgesg/ - Weekend Elder Scrolls Lore General

Why not?

How would a stifled dreamsleave raise the ocean? As I understand it the ocean, metaphysically, represents mystery, or, perhaps a divine subconscious will. Does it have a literal connection with the afterlife?

Because its linked to the realm that provides an infinite source of souls.
The dreamsleeve isn't something that actually physically exists.

Water is memery.

Literally what is the point in playing an Argonian?

Sotha Sil is mystery, and he's the sea, remember.
>The selfishness of the sea is Seht's

Memory is his daughter. Water is memory.

Anthro fetish.
Submission play.
Degeneration play.

He's about*

To play an Argonian.

But really, some people do like tribal societies, and there are some people who just hate going into a fantasy world and being a normal human. The stats are probably justifiably useful as well.

that's a bit of a stretch

Which part? Because the sea being the domain of Seht, Memory being his daughter, and water being Memory is firmly established. That's doesn't explain the logic, but it exists.

The dreamsleeve thing was just a theory. But the dreamsleeve actually does exist as a place, probably.

From a gameplay/playstyle perspective, user.
>The stats are probably justifiably useful as well.
How so? What do they specialize in?

>water being Memory is firmly established
Yes, by ESO.

I don't believe memory being his daughter can be considered even close to 'firmly established.'
And Sotha Sil's connection to the sea seems incredibly miniscule.

If I remember correctly, it's alluded to somehow in the Lessons. Anyway, it doesn't matter what game it's from, Mokou.

I'm puuuhretty sure MK just out and said she was.

The connection to the sea just reinforces the concept, it's not reliant on it.

Wow, so Sotha Sil has a really loose daughter who just goes with the flow and gets real wet easily, huh?

But more seriously, where does the idea of Sotha Sil having a daughter even come from? Water being memory I can at least somewhat support - it was once used for a metaphor to describe how the Elder Scrolls might work, though even that metaphor actively questioned what water was in the metaphor.

c0da. Memory is a character in c0da.

There's dome vague stuff from earlier material about water, one line from the Sermons about a rock recalling it's really water makes me think of Yokudan memory stones.

>dome
Red Dome.

>I'm puuuhretty sure MK just out and said she was.
If you can provide me a source I might believe you. As of right, the only thing I know about Sotha Sil having a child was a picture kirkbride posted that showed sotha sil holding a baby in some mechanical womb of sorts, with a caption stating he had a cosmic baby that survived the events of Tribunal.
Also, regarding the dreamsleeve I said it doesn't "physically" exist.

m.imgur.com/nZDEgEo?r

Physically, maybe not.

Mundus is physical
the dreamsleeve is spiritual

We don't really know the details. Aetherius is a place, and you can go there, break off a piece and take it.

Maybe when that shit falls into Mundus like say a varla stone.
Aetherius is always described as the spirit realm. It does not physically exist.
Mundus on the other hand is always described as a physical world.

Eh? Third PGE. People got there, and that's as far as they got.

It can be entered, yah. That doesn't mean it's a physical world.

Define physical.

Like I said...we really don't know. The stars physically exist. Magnus physically broke through. The Ge live there, souls go there, Dagoth Ur operated from there, it's specifically "not here". The problem is that words like "physically" don't really apply any more once you start talking about this sort of thing. As in, you can physically be in Elsweyr and the moons at the same time.

Like I said, we don't have much to base it off of. We know "where" it is. We know "how" to get there. We know that when we are "there", we're usually not also still "here".

A world like Mundus, or even ours for example.
A spiritual world would be like the concept of heaven, in other words a place that can't really be physically reached, or can really be said to specifically exist in any discernible place. Like a dream kind of.

It is a place though, insofar as it's explicitly not here, and also not just like "it's all around us" type deal. The mechanics are different, sure, but it's what's outside of the Wheel. As in, it does have specific boundries and so on.

Which is not to say there isn't way more advanced metaphysical shit going on. It's deginitely dreamlike. When you get to this level of metaphysics, the rules don't apply. That's the meta part, I guess.

As in, once you get that far, there isn't a "place" or "time" to worry about.

And there definitely aren't any afterlives there!

Unrelated user with an unrelated question; I'd been aware of the fact that Dagoth Ur was operating through the Dreamsleeve and was able to cross into Mundus through the power of the Heart, but after the events of Morrowind, is he trapped in the Dreamsleeve or was his soul destroyed?

That's a pretty big mystery, but I'd say it's likely that he dissipated in the Sleeve.

Sharmat never dies.

Wait, do you think Dagoth ever got bored and snuck a look at some Imperial clerk's memospores for fun?

Argonians tend to make great Spell-swords that lean towards thief.

funnly enaugh this idea was picked up by ESO for something unrelated

The dreamsleeve beeing for reincarnation is only a theory.
Not that i am against theories but i like to point out that this theory gets parroted as fact a lot but it actually has no source, not even obscure ones from developer talk.

I think its from reddit.

someones still mad about the red year.

In Morrowind you could make a decent spear fighter out of them, tho youd have to go with Medium Armor which requires the Add ons to be decent. But you can get the second best spear in the game realy easily. Tho playing an argonian also means you cant wear the boots of blinding speed making a spear build only half as fun.
in ESO they make good Tanks and probably just became BiC healers.
Their entire thing is about amplifying their healing, doubly so if they heal themselves.
I prefer that to the "sneakthief" thing, it never fit them.
I like the idea of argonians fight just by growing their limbs back.

It started out by MK in his stint about West to East.
ESO mereley confirmed it.

there was quite a bit of discussion about this whole thing i remember. I remember topics like "Is hist sap artificial water" and other autism.

The stars physically DONT Exist, they arent things they are holes.

Most likley the Mananauts that reached aetherius did so by going either through the sun or through one of the stars.

Third PGE also mentions this process of not beeing very efficient and thus abandoned.

Skyrim suggests for example that Sovngarde is in Aetherius.
MK flat out said Sovngarde is on the Moon.
How this fits in with the theory of the dreamsleeve is up to anyoes guess.

Tatterdemallion did some good things with the idea.

Sleeve as reincarnation:

>Mundus to Mortal Death: centerpoint to the soon recycled.

It's still vague.

The stars physically exist as holes, I mean. Physical holes.

doesnt mention that its the sleeve does it?

Forgot one thing: we know that the Hist have something like a dreamsleeve of their own.

We dont know if the hist create these souls.

one theory was that the Hist steal souls and make them into argonians.
Another theory is that argonian souls are pieces of the Hist hivemind that are broken off.

What we know is that the Hists dreamsleeve has a certain physicality to it. As in Argonians can be deprived of the Histsleeve and might potentialy be stolen for another Hist tree (the latteris from ESO datamining)

Not specifically. Taken with things like this,

>We mortals leave the dreaming-sleeve of birth the same, unmantled...

And:

>Here we come to the Scripture’s greatest resignation: to imagine the subcreation AFTER mortal death, which by pattern would mean an echo of Mundus, and through this imagining, the failures of so many.

It starts to add up. Interestingly, on the UESP the Infernal City is cited as a source for Sleeve soul recycling. I haven't read it.

Interresting enaugh, maybe that theory is worth giving another look

A really short amount of investigation turned up this excerpt from the book:

>There is a spell that allows one to talk to the ghosts of recently deceased people before they pass into the Dreamsleeve.

So uh, random question for an Oblivion character I'm roleplaying. Could someone who takes up the Crusader's Relics in KOTN become immortal somehow like Pelinal Whitestrake? (the character I'm RPing is not the Champion of Cyrodiil and does not do that questline, nor does Shivering Isles). I'm asking cause I was wondering if I could carry them to Skyrim, despite them not being one of the longer living Elf races or a heavy magic user.

It wasn't so much that Pelinal was himself immortal, well, aside from being a robot, but rather that he was a Shezarrine. As such "he" keeps coming back, re-incarnating, as Arnand the Fox or Wulfharth or so on. The player mantles Pelinal, sort of.

But yeah, whatever helps your character.

Playing same characters in different ES games is the height of autism.
But there are quite a lot of ways to prolong your lifespan.

Pelin-El is pretty much a protagonist.

Isnt there a mod where you travel back in time and become Pelinal?

So a bard?

Yeah yeah, I'm autistic, whatever, I get it. At least I'm not trying to pass the character off as both the CoC and the DB or anything, I'm just using the games's settings/time periods to RP.

>But there are quite a lot of ways to prolong your lifespan.

Other than becoming a vampire and advanced magic usage, what?

Everyone is talking about how the dreamsleave works, and I am here just trying to understand where Vaermina fits into all of this.

Maybe her plane captures the sleeping minds of mortals as they travel to the Sleeve for the night. Or maybe she's just pen pals with one of Meridia's sisters.

I'm just here trying to figure out how plants and animals evolved.

Metaphysical shit
Daedric pacts
Longevity potions

It's mostly through magic, but you don't need to be the one doing the spells.

Being a lich

More like devolved.

It's the only race I can pass my New Zealand accent off as being from when I do my Let's Roleplay of Skyrim.

Tell me more about the metaphysical shit and longevity potions.

Is there any in-game/in-lore information about longevity potions? Cause I've never heard about that one before.

They didn't really. They're from the same or lesser degenerated (or sub-gradial)spirits as Men and Mer.

>Metaphysical
CHIM, mantling, the other Walking Ways. Messing with the Heart of Lorkhan, or even something as simple as becoming the servant to a Prince.

Not that becoming a servant to a Prince to the point that they cryo you would be easy, it's just probably at least a little easier than the others.

How about Imperial cloning facilities?

Oh, and the Nords do this thing where they shout your ashes back to life.

But that probably isn't too fun.

There are potions who's recipes came from Daedric Lords. Like Vaerminas torpor. Perhaps it is like that.

>Imperial cloning facilities
Tell me more.

Also, now that I think of it, in Redguard it's mentioned that Dram already died once and what we see it his new incarnation. I also remember seeing the phrase "Dram simulacra" in some dev talk.

Oh shit, I forgot about Dram.

And hey, there's always Corprus.

As for Imperial clones, you'd have to ask Nu-Hatta.

By that I mean Ald-Hatta got totally fragged by the Ghost Choir.

A sultry one.

But seriously it depend on the gender. Men are more Hunters, Women are more shamans.

line from Infernal City:
>There is a spell that allows one to talk to the ghosts of recently departed people before they pass into the Dreamsleeve

Name: Dram
Age: 252 (current incarnation 64, materialized [2E612])
Race: Dunmer (Dark Elf)
Province of Birth: Morrowind
Occupation: Exiled Assassin of the Morag Tong, Imperial Emissary

Little is known about the Dark Elven Imperial Emissary, Dram, though his loyalty to Tiber Septim is unquestioned. Ironically, his ancestors were preeminent nightblades of the Four Score War, wherein the Morag Tong systematically destroyed the heirs of the Second Empire of Men. Why Dram now serves Cyrodiil, Morrowind's longtime enemy, is a mystery, as is the reason Tiber Septim suffers any Aldmeri to assist in his conquests in the first place.

Like all members of the Morag Tong, Dram worships Sithis, the God of Death; indeed, he is a thrice-born initiate who continues his faith even after his exile. Again, details of Dram's exile are unknown. There are whispers that House Indoril, the chosen Dark Elven faction of the legendary Tribunal, took slight at the assassin's affairs and had him secretly executed in CE800, an insult the Morag Tong has yet to forgive. Others say Dram has been a companion of Tiber Septim since the Emperor first took the Cyrodilic Crown. Still more, that he is the apprentice of Zurin Arctus.

Whatever the case, Dram is one of the Empire's most trusted servants, and perhaps its deadliest assassin. Currently, he is stationed at Stros M'kai, helping Provisional Governor Richton root out the last of the Redguard resistance fighters.

>thrice-born
Fucking thrice.

Because I want to be a cool Lizard dude.

So basically, its a tonal spell that allows the user to talk to the echo of a soul before it gets laundered.

How does the cloning work? Do they tune a soul to the resonance of the template and shove it to a body? That sounds similar to necromancy or the Briar-hearts.

Briar-hearts are so fucking cool.

So here is a question: have the PCs throughout the series actually achieved Chim? I know that Morrowind makes notice of the player's save/load ability and acknowledges the player can manipulate the world state in some weird ways. Are mods in the PC version of the game reasonably fancannon when you consider Talos doing the whole de-forest modding of his session?

NO

Does anyone actually play UESRPG or Scrollhammer?
They're barely talked about.

Been reading the rules and supplement books for UESRPG, planning on running a game with three friends of mine near Oblivion Crisis. Though, honestly I haven't had much in terms of gameplay review etc. I guess we'll see when I run it.

Has anyone tried the Elder Scrolls legends card game?

Its fine
its the middle ground between hearthstone and MtG, the story mode is pretty shit and may or may not be just a made up story told by a "moth priest" to inspire his allies
Art is fine, if a little generic in some places, legendaries are all over the place from a random khajiit priest to a blood dragon and from ahnassi to divayth fyr, some cards yell weird things when you play them like the nord raiding party wich exclaims "Herma Mora tests us!" for some reason
I like it

I've read a bit into UESRPG, and I'd love to play it. Unfortunately I currently live in the middle of nowhere, and my hours are odd, so I'm not expecting to ever get to play it. Maybe once I return to more flexible hours. But it's in all likelyhood going to be online.

I've played Scrollhammer once, and it was pretty fun. Would play again.

Be sure to tell us how it goes, user. Sounds like fun.

I've only played it a bit, but it's okay/fun in terms of gameplay. In terms of lore and story it's pretty bad, but it's just a spin-off cardgame. The art is okay, but very uneven. Not fond of the general style of many cards, particularly for Mer.
I'm probably going to finish the main story, and play some online, but I don't see me playing it a lot after that.

>the nord raiding party wich exclaims "Herma Mora tests us!" for some reason
Well, Hermaeus Mora is the god of the ocean.

>he doesn't roleplay as the same telvanni wizard lord/vampire/altmer/shezzarine in all games

The briar hearts function like a mini heart of Lorkhan right?

The four corners of the house of troubles serve as testing gods to the dunmer, and so does Lorkhan to the altmer if I'm not mistaken, but why do Nords consider Hermaeus Mora their testing god? Does Hermaeus Mora like to bully Nords more than other races?

Nords are stupid, and Hermaeus Mora is the prince of knowledge.

They're not boat raiders but two 0 magicka 1/1's with charge. I like how it uses the old nordic pantheon but why would the woodland man be trying to trick a bunch of warrior attacking an enemy?

wise demon trick dumb nord. Dumb nord live after getting tricked and warns children about intelligent people and their wits
Rinse and repeat

They're fun and because Khajiits and Mers are for pussies.

But really, they have something cool about them and quite decent stats if you want to play as a battlemage. The whole treedrones thing is a meme anyway, especially since they don't actually act like this most of the time.

From 2 threads back:
michaelkirkbride.tumblr.com/post/128602974278/excerpt-from-a-tesv-skyrim-design-document-with

Where the fuck is Stuhn?
Jhunal too I guess. But we already knew that he'd fallen out of favor (although not how or why).

...Are you being cheeky?
Or are they genuinely good all-rounders?

He's kidding. Argonians make for good stealth archers.

There's more than one way to skin a Horker.

And Mora won't rest until he knows them all.

Stuhn's dead, baby.