He doesn't just describe what the players see and make them map out the dungeons themselves

>he doesn't just describe what the players see and make them map out the dungeons themselves

Get better at English and then try again.

>making me buy graph paper
What the fuck GM? Do you think money grows on trees or something?

There's a reason I'm playing Savage Worlds, and that's because the book only costs $10.

Yeah, this. The fuck are you actually trying to say?

I don't make them map the place but I don't hand them a map either. If they get lost or forget where they are I let them know what they should know. Fun trumps simulationism, especially in collaborative game. If you can't understand that you may have honest to goodness non-meme autism.

>the idea of mapping dungeons is so alien to NSR players that they blame their lack of understanding on "poor english", when the sentence structure is no worse than what a non-native english-speaker would type.

He (in this case, a hypothetical individual) does not simply describe to the players what their characters see, and make them draw maps for themselves. The implication is that, instead, he provides maps for them, or just allows them to leave the dungeon whenever they want.

The greentext in conjunction with the image was meant to convey horror at the idea of doing what "he" is doing, by eschewing the mapping element of an RPG centered around exploring dungeons, caverns, and so on.
I'll provide it.
I'm referring to a specific kind of role-playing game focused on challenge.

Are you two stupid? It reads just fine.

I hate this as well, OP. Also, if they're fleeing an enemy or otherwise running rather than walking, I don't let them draw on their map until they stop moving, and then they can try to draw from memory.

>focusing on challenge
>literally trying to win d&d
please return to /v/ at your earliest convenience

not them, but while it's legible it has several unnecessary teanagerisms

*teenagerisms
that's embarrassing

>not realizing D&D has been about overcoming challenges since OD&D
>not using a system that isn't literally built around resource management if you want a game that isn't about resource management, with story emerging through the interaction between character and obstacles

Also
>teenagerisms
I'm 29. Can you point to them?

>I can not into reading comprehension

>he doesn't let his players walk into walls for half an hour because he fucked up a description of how long a corridor was

>I play ttrpgs like a videogame and everyone else should too.

>point to them
just and themselves are both redundant in your sentence

>NSR player fails to recognize that OSR existed before video games
>playing the grammar nazi

>DM usually maps out rooms for us on a whiteboard
>Enter new area, starts listing different hallways we can go down
>Nothing on whiteboard
>Realize we're going to have to map it out ourselves
>Have been carrying graph paper for just this situation for 13 sessions
>Whip it out, grap pencil, begin mapping gleefully, fond childhood memories washing over me
>"Oh, nevermind guys, I found the map, I'll draw it for you..."

I don't play tabletop RPGs like a video game. I do play them like the kinds of games that early video game RPGs were trying to emulate (and were incapable of, despite sometimes being very good video games, because no game can emulate a human being responding to you doing an infinite variety of things).

>muh it's older so it's better
I bet you think THAC0 was a good idea

I cannot believe this cancer has spread to my most beloved Veeky Forums

Veeky Forums has always been shit, and the hobby is now changing-- excuse me, "transitioning" for the worse.

I'm OP and , and I'd like you to point out where I said it was better BECAUSE it's older. I think it's older AND it's better, but the relationship isn't causal.

>THAC0
Hell, no. I think there are a lot of surface level things that newer editions do better. I play Swords and Wizardry using ascending AC, and attack bonuses.

I would kill for a videogame that actually required me to draw my own map by hand.

Those games do exist user. You know that, right?

well these types of threads are usually just baseless ad hominem slinging so I guess I jumped the gun. If the rest of the group enjoys the challenge of keeping a map more power to you, if it's just hardcore l33t gamer posturing foisted upon them then you're being a dick.
etrian odyssey

Legend of Grimrock on man mode.

Making your system so that some rolls favor going high and others favor going low is a good way to account for the fact that dice were really shitty when THAC0 was a thing. It seems counterintuitive to us now, but that's just because you've fooled yourself into thinking that RPG dice are actually random.

Almost every first-person dungeon crawler ever. Possibly some other games. Oh, and Zork.
I like playing in both story-oriented games and challenge-oriented games where story arises from the adventure itself, and I like running both kinds of games. I wouldn't run an old school dungeon crawl for a group that didn't want one.

Everything that The Elder Scrolls does well it stole from Ultima Underworld. The map is part of the game, but it comes with literally no helpful icons or waypoints - instead it has a feature where you can annotate your own notes onto it.

The entire MegaTen series, like pointed out.

Ignore Persona. It's shit.

>Everything that The Elder Scrolls does well it stole from Ultima Underworld.
such as?

Not that user, but

>interesting real-time first person action RPG with lots of quests, lots of character customization, and lots of choice, in a world that on some level breaks the fourth wall

This isn't shitting on TES, mind you. Just saying it didn't originate anything but its lore.

THAC0 was pretty poorly explained. It's easier if you make that the target number and instead add all the bonuses and the monster's AC to the d20 roll. If your THAC0 is 19, the monster has an AC of 7, and you have a to-hit bonus of +1 you'd have to roll at least an 11 to hit as the formula then becomes 1d20 + 7 + 1 >= 19.
Not the worst idea, just really bad explanation and methodology.

But the lore, spellcrafting, and alchemy system are the only things it does well imho

oh and shipping with modding tools too

lore isn't a game mechanic son

>implying it isn't
-4 lore points