From a new player to veterans: why is it so bad that the Tau don't fit into the 40k universe tonally? It seems like having that kind of foil for the other races has a lot of potential.
Is it not grimdark that the Tau are so optimistic because they are largely ignorant of the inescapable horrors of a universe to which the older empires take for granted?
They fit fine as long as you aren't willfully ignorant because you have already decided that you hate them.
It's clear that this is a bait thread and you bit anyways. Look at the archive. It's full of bait threads. Tyranids, orks, and now Tau. Dumbass.
This explains a lot actually.
While I think they fit just fine in the universe, I do find their art design a little jarring when compared to the rest of the armies. Everyone else has this very gritty, retro art style straight out of the 80s era of science fantasy. Even the Eldar have a lot of darker elements to their art design. Everything sort of looks like what you'd find in a pulpy Dune ripoff.
Contrast with the Tau, who have a very sleek, space opera design to everything. They look like something you'd find in Halo or post-VII Final Fantasy with their shiny armor, mechsuits, bright color schemes, and advanced tech. It doesn't necessarily look out of place but their visual personality is quite distinct from the overall mood of the game. If you sat a Fire Warrior side-by-side with an Ork Boy, a Space Marine, or a Guardian and showed it to the uninitiated they might not think they're even from the same game.
It's a genuine question, I'm really just curious. I'm not arguing one way or another.
Agreed but it doesn't bother me, different races across a whole galaxy, theyre bound to have different themes and appearances, I like it, though I hate the tau
>check the catalog
>How are the Tyranids a threat?
>HAHA How are Orks a threat?
>Do the Tau fit in guise?
All threads started by you one after the other at the same time with inane baity questions meant for morons to bite.
Sadly we have no shortage of dumbasses here.
Maybe people "bite" because they genuinely enjoy talking about it, I hope this doesn't offend you as much as OPs thread
I am offended by how easy it is to stir a shitstorm here. Had I not warned you guys about true OP's intentions and pointed out his other threads, you might have started a shitstorm. You might still do because you can't help yourselves.
How dumb can you be to see OP and think this is a genuine question? How many times was this asked by troll and why are we are still debating this a decade and half later? Nothing you are going to say will be new or insightful. It's all been said before.
> Had I not warned you guys about true OP's intentions and pointed out his other threads, you might have started a shitstorm.
>Everyone else has this very gritty, retro art style straight out of the 80s era
Way long ago they did, but the art style has been basically self-referential since the 3rd edition Grey Knights came out.
>Is it not grimdark that the Tau are so optimistic because they are largely ignorant of the inescapable horrors of a universe to which the older empires take for granted?
It does not get enough attention in the fluff, if the true horrors of reality and beyond mess with them there is never that san-loss moment of realizing that their entire creed is worthless and that the barbarians all around were right all along. If something goes wrong it never has any long term down sides for them.
I mean it's there: Their Drones working outside of their protocols once in a while, suits talk in weird voices and stuff but it stays far beneath the water line.
This and their deus ex machina victories all the time. No last ditch efforts, no heroic sacrifices, no heroic last stands in the face of the horrors of the galaxy, just victory because their enemies seem to lose their brain once they fight the Tau.
Truly you are the hero TG needs
Daily reminder that Tau AI is superior to Necron AI.
I guess, but even current art has a very obvious 80s heritage.
Necromunda is so fucking based. Hell, the models have aged well, too.
'cept the plastic Orlocks and Goliath. Those look dated.
I don't really see what's specifically 80s about that even if it's a pretty decent piece.
The Tau were better before all the mind control pheromones and being 1984-lite, back when they where just a young, optimistic and somewhat naive race, a reminder of humanity in ages past.
Daily reminder that Tau tried to shake hands with Necrons and got the shit kicked out of them.
A lot of the hate stems from intent, it was not what is best and fits in to the hobby it was how can we get a big slice of that delicious weeaboo pie that was popular (And still is) back then. They were selected more for their profitability than their fit and finish in to the wide ranging lore of 40k.
The addition of a noble-bright faction is by no means a detraction to the setting as it can offer something different, fighting against a hopeless and unwinnable war while still trying to retain your nation and sense of unity can be very grim dark. But sticking increasingly stronger and stronger mechs speaks of lack of creativity and a very narrow view.
If they bring in more of the Orwellien themes they dabled in, it may go a long way to bringing them closer to the setting while keeping them distinct enough.
it works because on a meta level, you (the player) know that the Tau are wrong and doomed to fail
I don't get why is this a bad thing. It depends on the Necron Overlord and his current mood. Anrakyr was a in a bad mood that day and even quasi-apologized for the whole thing.
i don't think their aesthetic fits in
also i wish they had bothered to fluff out the whole "they're probably mind controlled by the higher ups" thing which they mostly just tacked on and never fleshed out to sate the people who saw that they weren't nearly grimdark enough for the setting
...
>Daily reminder that Tau AI is superior to Necron AI.
Necron tech operates on an entirely different plane of existence.
Warriors and the like are the way they are intentionally, not because of a failure of technology.
Necron machine AI vs Tau machine AI were pitted against each in the "The Ancient and the Greater Good". The Tau AI proved to be superior.
The Tau aircraft, despite being outnumbered by the Necron fighters, were fighting off the Necron aircrafts and scoring more kills.
The Tau ace pilot and his AI assistant were too much for the Necron dynasties honored trio of pilots and their ships AI. The Necron Pilots, after being blown up, calculated that defeating the Tau pilot by going against him one by one is very unlikely. They decided to engage him in a single formation.
>and even quasi-apologized for the whole thing.
Wait what...
>jarring artstyle
It's often a matter of artist
Imo the 1st tau codex had a perfect balance of fluffing and letting stuff in the shadows so you could have "your dudes". And a codex is supposed to show the best aspects of the faction, even a passing reference to the not so benevolent behaviour of the ethereals is enough.
...
Closet thing you can get from them as an apology
>prior to the harvest of ka'mais
That isn't an apology, that's a declaration of intent.
Lmao
>You're here and I don't want you here.
>Fuck you for making me have to kill you just for existing in the same general vicinity as me.
That's an apology?
He had to justify his actions to his victims. Seems apologetic.
"You exist in my...space. Fuck you."
That was the entire "justification." He even blamed them for "forcing" him to kill them.
Look at the start of the quote which translates to "I am not a bad guy". The rest of the quote is "It's my duty and I don't like it".
It's not like the Necrons are consistent enough to form some coherent behavior pattern for them.
>979.M41 THE BEAST SLAIN
>The Tau sept world of Uan’Voss is almost overrun by a sudden infestation of Tyranids, only to be saved by most unlikely rescuers. Several legions of Necrons from the Atun Dynasty fall upon the swarming bio-horrors, Annihilation Barges laying down a crippling bombardment while phalanxes cut their way deep into the horde. Little do the Tau know that they have just witnessed the servants of the Silent King at work.
It's more "you forced me to do this and I hate you even more for it"
Necrons are capable of critical thought now?
Holy shit i have been under a rock for a long time.
I remmeber then as for the most part silent death machines.
Only the Lords, Crypteks, and Triarchs. Otherwise, everybody else has limited sentience at best, with Lychguard being the "most" sentient (but programmed to be absolutely and unwaveringly loyal, and they cannot disobey a command) to Deathmarks (Spooky scary skeleton snipers) to your situationally intelligent Immortals (outside combat they're completely useless) to your classic, dumb as rocks Warrior, who does only exactly what it is told to do.
With the exceptions of the Lords, Triarchs (Think of them as Necron "commissars" that enact the Silent Kings will, to varying degrees of effectiveness) and Crypteks, they largely still are. Even then, many lords are completely silent deathbots even still - it depends purely on their defects or their personality before Biotransference.
What the hell is the point of a commissar to an army who swings from 'cannot disobey a command' to 'can only do exactly what it is told to do'?
Triarchs enforce the Law on Lords, not the grunts.
Anybody know if any other miniature companies are making Not!Hive Gangers? I'd fucking love to get into Necromunda, but the minis have been out of production forever.
As someone who was first into this stuff in the 90s, I find the Crons and DEldar a lot more annoying than the Tau. The Tau are just another alien species in a big galaxy, while the Crons and DEldar were shoehorned in, changing the existing fluff.
>the 90s
Remember when the Necrons were surviving Men of Iron? Those were good times. They should have just stuck with that.
And that's how your mashines do not become corrupted. Handle them well and with respect before you push them into rebellion and twistesness(?). Take notes you Mechanicus fucks
That seems to say a top Tau Pilot AND his AI working together are superior, not "Tau AI are superior".
Welcome to the newcrons, a.k.a. tomb kings in space.
C'tans are used as pokemons/reactor cores now, too.
Catchans make good orlock with very little work. Or decent enough Goliath if you can greenstuff mohawks n shit.
SM scouts with a little bit of converting / greenstuff work make great arbites too.
The reason a lot of people don't like the Tau isn't because they're "good guys" or because they're more modern and sciency in a world where everyone is primitive and ignorant.
The problem is that they play the trope too straight. There's no wink wink nudge nudge in about 80% of their stuff, they're seriously just modern modern, more advanced and more sensible than everyone else, and their ignorance of the realities of the universe never trip them up. They destroy hive fleets in hybernation, they beat back chaos incursions and think they've killed Slaanesh, they assimilate insane human religious radicals with no reprecussions, they defeat Crusades, they duke it out with the Necrons, etc.
Only rare is their naivety and ignorance actually a liability. 40k is all about guys with chainsaws and rocket launchers painted in goofy checkerboard yellow and black shit fighting dinosaur bugs with WWI era tanks, it's a loving pastiche of the 1980s' insane coke-fueled attitude and medieval and gothic aesthetics, and the hopeless ridiculousness of a world run by madmen that actually continues to run.
Then you have the secular humanist high tech socialist space-commies who just want everyone to get along, and it looks like they're actually managing it. They're not a foil, or a deconstruction, or a parody of anything, they're exactly what they're described as, and it raises the question of why anyone wouldn't side with them. How are they not the good guys? Oh sure, every once in a while they do something a bit murky, but there's always an excuse. Brightsword was disobeying orders, oh it wasn't REALLY the Greater Good that time, they'll definitely never trust the Dark Eldar again, etc.
They don't fit with the tone of the rest of the universe, but it isn't done in a way where that contrast is played for laughs or irony, it's played straight. That's the problem with the Tau.
The Tau are almost grimdark.
The ethereals just need to be revealed as a front for something much more sinister.
I suggest you read Kill Team from the Last Chancers series, you'll certainly like it.
I think this issue comes from the fact that the tau occupy a ridiculously small amount of space. The imperium can lose several sectors without it becoming a problem, whilebany serious blow to the tau empire would destroy it.
And since gw is unable to leave a race out of any event, they always end up winning.
I'm a tau player, and my reaction at the campaign report where the tau expanded during the 13th black crusade was "who cares?"; I didn't follow the event for the tau or the nids.
GW has to stop using them like a major faction in the fluff, making them part of any event, no matter how ridiculous it is for them to be that far from their territories.
Where does this 'they don't fit' meme come from, the only rule of Warhammer is that there are no rules. The entire galaxy is the setting any just about every type of planet, ideology and species exist. Even the same organisations have a hundred different modus operandi.
Triarchs enforce the will of the Silent King upon the Lords, who are capable of sentience and independent thought. They attempt to rebuild the relations between dynasties, and reunite the (originally fragmented) Necron race again.
They are completely above other members of Necron hierarchy.
>Where does this 'they don't fit' meme come from,
It's really not a meme, it's pretty obvious that they definitely jar with the tragic/grimdark nature of literally every other faction in the series.
While there may be "good" people in the Imperium, the Eldar, etc., their organizations as a whole do terrible things (largely because they have to, but that's another story) and make tons of mistakes. Factions like Dark Eldar and Chaos are straight up EVIL; the Tyranids and Orks are like a force of nature; Necrons are an ancient, awakening nightmare force that does whatever the hell it feels like because it can.
The Tau are none of these things, and they (largely) do not understand the reality of the galaxy that every other faction has accepted: Science must be carefully researched, Daemons are real, and Gods are real. Religion and Superstition are often the entirely rational reaction to the world. The Warp is a horrible place, filled with unimaginable nightmares that literally exist to eat your souls. Despite their complete naiveté, they STILL manage to always "win" and never really suffer any defeat, and never truly adapt to the changing world around them.
The Tau will "Fit In" when they actually come to the realization that the Greater Good, as a philosophy, just will not work in this galaxy, and that other races are incredibly harsh because they NEED to be. Until that time, we're all just waiting for the shoe to drop that should have dropped long ago, but it hasn't because "reasons."
>there is never that san-loss moment of realizing that their entire creed is worthless and that the barbarians all around were right all along.
"Each must find their own way. If those in our heartland had witnessed the savageries of the void as have we they would know this. The hand of each of the starfarers is turned against the other; none will join their strength together just to see their ancient enemies prosper. Neither should we."
What's the Imperoum's position of Tau Human Auxiliaries/Colonists? Summary execution or re-education camps?
I'd take the execution desu
There is some fan theory that they're setting themselves up for their own Iron Men revolt with their networked AI's (heh, Geth in 40K).
I suppose it's possible that if their robots got smart enough and paused to take a look at the galaxy, they'd realize the only 'rational' decision to make is the complete eradication of all organic (or just non-Tau) life, and take control...
But even that wouldn't be enough, because it wouldn't be 'their' fault.
>Tau
>any caste being taller than a human male
So I've read some novels involving the tau and involving interactions between one or more castes, so my question is if the earth caste engineer were humans would they be considered autistic?
>implying that's an adult male
>implying /ss/ isn't part of the Gue'Vesa training curriculum
Dare you enter my magical realm?
Perhaps the mandatory sterilization chemicals that they force on their human populations stunt growth when taken at a young age.
So if what you say is true that makes the image even worse.
It seems that all tau fanboys/magical realm tarpits seem to forget/dont know about the ethereals illuminati like stuff, chips in foreheads, sterilisation camps etc
But MUH BLUE WAIFU
the problem is they seems to get a free passes on shit that has fucked up the other factions in the past.
all there 'setbacks' seem to be accompanied by an 'and its fixed by the next episode nothing changes' nature.
what they need is for there constant running against the themes of the setting to smack them down hard at least once and have it stick.
last I check (it has been a while) this hasn't happen.
Tau are great, them being starkly different, visually, was part of the appeal.
Modern tau fluff is not great, because people are trying very hard to have them fit in with all the cool kids, losing what unique and interesting things they brought to the table in the first place.
Necron aircraft are driven by a Necron pilot and a Necron AI with millions of years of data.
Not canon.
Farsight worked with other races and developed friendships with them.
they look like weeabots while others look like catholic space nazis
>Is it not grimdark that the Tau are so optimistic because they are largely ignorant of the inescapable horrors of a universe to which the older empires take for granted?
Yup, they are a fresh perspective through which to discover the horror of 40k anew. it's just that Veeky Forums despise Tau for various reasons and will ignore the entire premise of the faction to shit on them.
>Cathlolic Space Nazis vs Hellraiseresque BDSM Slavers
God damn I love over the top aesthetics of 40k. Fuck the game, it's the fluff that keeps me coming back.
>What's the Imperoum's position of Tau Human Auxiliaries/Colonists?
According to the Cain novels and various IA books, they are viewed as being worse than the Tau themselves, as they're race-traitors. A Tau ambassador suggested sending a human envoy with Cain (the were working together to kill Tyranids) and Cain flat-out said that she'd be killed on the spot if she showed up anywhere near an Imperial.
Also Cain noted that she was polite and a q8.
>Is it not grimdark that the Tau are so optimistic
Tau propaganda and the Tau peasants that believe it are optimistic.
Tau are actually as evil and dysfunctional as everyone else.
Look guys, we found the real bait!
To be fair, he kind of has a point on the repeating discussion issue.
I mean, how many Primarch and Krieg wank threads to we need?
I wonder if the grim darkness about the tau is about them actually being "good". Young and naive, they have a bright future ahead of them; if the galaxy wasn't about to end.. Smart and inclusive they have what could really help the others, if they weren't slated for extinction… a cruel fate awaits them no matter what they choose. A false hope is the CRUELEST thing no matter what universe you live in.
So... how long until Farsight Enclaves start dropping colonies on T'au?
And lo I say to thee that the first post will always be the best post.
Amen.
Only if it gives the Tau noses.
I don't know why that bother's me so much, but it does.
Tau fit just fine with the moral tone of the universe. If the imperium are fascists, the. tau are the communists.
I just hate the way Tau have turned out desu.
Tau before
>giant mechs are stupid, no wonder these gue'la are losing their empire
Tau now
>So do we want to use the XV 81G-D14K or the XV 445-5M45H32
I just get annoyed by how overpowered they are made in the fluff. They keep becoming more and more unbeatable, they can trash space marines easily, which means Imperial guard (the main defence of the imperium who are mean to take on anything and win) are completely mullered in any books or background canon.
it unbalances the stuff. they need more flaws, or they're just not warhammer enough.
they are being treated too nicely. they always win, always survive, always come out without so much as a bloody nose.
where are the plagues? uprisings? daemonic incursions? necrons ripping their shit up? tyranids fucking up their worlds (properly)? orks raping their systems?
it's all "oh we have the best commanders ever because we learn the mon'kaa or whatever so we'll destroy you" or "oh look we build some new technology that allowed us to defeat that thing that literally no one else in the game can defeat".
too clean and shiny, not enough dirty.
Tau's existence are a bit disrespectful to the other races that are established around the proximity of contrasts
technology with archaic beliefs, holy delusion with heretical reality, humor with viciousness, arrogance with helplessness, madness with happiness
Tau don't have that, and it makes them stand out. That being said, I still like them
GW ok'd the Tau doing something similar in the Medusa Campaign. No Farsight involvement but they turned Ork and dropped an asteroid on a planet, killing it basically.
Don't forget pushing out all semblance of allied regiments in favor of more Gundams and Guncannons.
It's things like that which made me drop the setting altogether and, funnily enough, I'm a /m/an at heart.
At least it retains some of the more parody minded elements of the setting.
People always call the Tau the Gundam/Anime army but it's a whole different thing when you can tell them they really are just that with a straight face as someone, who they know is into Gundam and mecha anime.
I think tau are a better fit than fucking eldar.
God eldar suck.
But not the one it deserves
>Everyone else has this very gritty, retro art style straight out of the 80s era of science fantasy.
No.
Nothing you really said makes them not 'fit in'. The Tau are an Empire, by their very nature they subjugate all races underneath them. I think you take the Tau's ideology too much at face value.