We always assume the bad guys collect some treasure and hole up in pre-existing dungeons

>His setting isn't a massive self-refilling loot dispenser trying to lure adventurers into it's zone of influence

Tell your DM to step the fuck up.

It's the bad guy's base of operations whether they be BBEGs or random bandits, simple as that. It's just the loot that doesn't make sense.

>break into a dungeon
>it's a highwayman's hideout
>no loot, beside some trinkets their leader had, because they sold it all to fund their continued existence
>find only mediocre weapons and food supplies

Are there seven virtues that roughly correspond with the sins? I am thinking the Magic World/ Elric/ Classic Fantasy allegiance rules would work well for this.

my players don't really like realism in their games. or should I say, that level of believability. they don't really care about economics in their fantasy games.

I had a similar idea while back, making "dungeons" these things from another world or timeline. Basically they'd be pieces of a civilization who's world died with few (but very powerful) survivors, so they sectioned off pockets of their once-glorious civilization, filled it with loot, traps, and monsters and warped into our world to draw adventurers. Unbeknownst to them, the dungeons capture the souls of all those who die within, and after collecting enough, fade back into their own world where those souls are used as a source of life or power in an attempt to revive the dead world.

>Are there seven virtues that roughly correspond with the sins

Jesus fuck man, I could see this thread would be cancer, but I'd never have guessed it would this cancer.

>"Sorry boys, we have to keep a few chests and that magic sword here for adventurers to loot after they slaughter you and kill me. That's how things are done."
Is it so hard?
Courage
Mercy
Wisdom
Faith
Justice
Selflessness
Patience

sorta made that up, and they don't exactly correspond with sins, but meh

hm, I'll abosolutely steal that idea, just leaving out the "on purpose" bit.

once a world died, places that had much purpose and wealth and potential power in life didn't just disintegrate but warped into another world. either the warping process filled them with monsters and traps, or those were set by that long-dead civilization for some regular purposes (e.g. a dungeon is former treasury) or monsters just got attracted to the structure like to any other cover

You people make me sick.

Just fucking google it if you're an ignorant fuckwit.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_virtues

they are outdated though, unlike sins

what about neutral "virtues"? the ones that can be turned both for good and evil? say, courage and wisdom are more like neutral features.

neutral would make stuff go... dunno. orderly.

I stole the idea from a Fallout and pony fanfic I read years ago. Story takes place in a massive bombed out city that had been turned into a fuckhuge bunker complex/R&D center during the previous world war that killed everyone.

A side character pops open a drawer and holds up a few bullets and caps like it means something.

>Cool. And...?
>I emptied this drawer last week. And the week before than, and before that, and so one. For months. It's like this all over the fucking city.

Something at the heart of the city (which is still active, but surrounded by enough automated guns to make a Shadowrun megacorp. blush) is pushing out just enough scrap to lure people to come looking for loot, but not enough that anyone accumulates any real meaningful wealth. It's all a massive carrot on a stick for some unknown purpose.

It's a cool fucking idea but I don't know how I'd adapt it to a campaign. I'm shit at conspiracy.

>You people make me sick.

Then feel free not to participate.

the baublemind network: a sort of shared low consciousness among all precious metal valuables, kinda like the way the one ring drops off people's fingers when it's convenient. all treasures migrate to the ultramegalich's lair.

Ah, Project Horizons, how I love thee.

I really need to reread that, and even those who aren't keen on ponies should consider it because it is just a plain good story.

Rampage best ponies

so you mean it's like Diablo universe? Greater Evils spawn demon as we leave footprints and their very presence warps the world around them. Diablo being trapped for centuries beneath Tristram Cathedral made actual Hell seep into lower levels.

I dropped off somewhere around the 40's while waiting for updates.

I was pleasantly surprised at how much it didn't suck.

>The bandit lord doesn't keep the best sword and armor for himself.

It doesn't even need to be insanely good, just some marginal upgrade from what someone in the party is already wearing.

Maybe they had a few minor spell scrolls stashed in their tent or something.

okay, that was bad example. but say a magic bow or something - that would go on the treasure pile, instead of gang's best archer. because that's how things are done.

unless the archer is worthy of being called mini-boss himself, that is

If you must, balance it by making the wielders of said magic items weaker than the players statistically. Some dank-ass bandit isn't going to be as skilled as a paladin in combat.

it's not a matter of balance, gods no, it's a matter of Dungeon having a proper Treasure. because that's how Things are Done.

Wow, and here I was under the assumption that the best way to GM was for opponents to use every trick at their disposal, especially if they are intelligent.

The other thing to remember is that most bandits are soldiers and mercenaries fallen on hard times, so they will actually be pretty tough and will be well aware that a magic weapon is a major advantage in battle.

So, yes, the bandit leader will be decked out in the best stuff that suits his style and his most loyal men will be almost as well kitted out.

and maybe players are not Chosen Ones and world does not revolve around them? meh

The first game I ran began with the group being brought back from the dead by a less than trustworthy emissary of the gods saying they had the potential to save the world. When one of them said "holy crap, we're the chosen ones!" the envoy pointed out that they were hardly the only chosen ones and that only a dumbass would place all their eggs in one basket like that.

meh

Depends on the opponent.

Just because someone was a soldier/mercenary doesn't mean they were a good one or that they could recognize a magic weapon if they saw one.

don't magic weapons have like a blue tag or something?

>That feel when the closest thing to a "dungeon" in most of the games I play is an abandoned military fort because the GM can't come up with a reason why a loot-filled meat-grinder would just be just sitting unattended and unplundered out in the middle of nowhere when looters and armies are a thing.

I've been (slowly) working on a series of tables you can roll on to develop a dungeon over a period of 3,000 years from the time the structure was first built for its original use until the present day when the PCs arrive.

You may want to get tested for schizophrenia.

Table addiction and chart matrixing are symptomatic of it.

I wish I were joking. My best friend started off with 100 interconnected rooms with door leading to other rooms in the chart. He ended up paranoid schizophrenic and takes Thorazine every day to prevent backsliding into hallucinatory paranoid delusions.

heh, I used to make horrible-horrible "original creation" RPG in my high school years, that would've made Rolemaster blush. tables and rolls and more tables. for everything and then some.

but then again, I know I'm a bit insane, just not insane enough to come out to brains doctor.

Doesn't Dungeonscape and the DMG go over this? Dungeons full of treasure exist due to the end of a golden age, where empires crumbled and certain arts were lost to time.

This isn't really a novel concept. Google "D&D Mythic Underworld'.

>kindness and benevolence are outdated ideals

Only on Veeky Forums

nah, that is just what modern society has promoted. People follow the examples of their leaders and those leaders (politicians) are as corrupt if more than ever.

>assuming they are talking about specific ones
>strawman

/v/ plz leave

this'll have to be a quick post [ about to make dinner] - iof this is still arounbd ill try to elaborate on it

>A " dungeon dimension"that intersects with the PC's game world.
>imagine 2 ballons, one larger than the other, the larger is the PC's world - elves, dwarfs, castles, humans - that sort of thing.
> the smaller is the dungeon dimension, and every now and then it "bumps" into the PCs world
> the results of those bumps are imprints of its surface, like the way you leave a footprint in wet mud - except we call them "dungeons"!

What if treasures are in fact Dungeon seeds? Big hero goes into unexplored dungeon, picking up impressive artefacts along the way. Some will, inevitably be lost, but a few will find their ways into the possession of collectors, wizards, lords and other suitable "growing mediums". Quite possibly they start the process of building protective vaults or the like, but they aren't, at that point terribly impressive, nor are their owners particularly BBEGish. If the infection is allowed to progress, however, the initial Dungeon spore grows and grows, warping their host into a true "villain" to protect itself and eventually growing new passages on its own. After a certain point it will begin to fruit new dungeon seed treasures and do what it can to attract adventurers to spread them - yawning entrances built into attractive shapes, luminescent fungus and perpetually burning torches to guide them where they need to go, that sort of thing.

I like the shitty Japanese LN approach: dungeons are themselves quasi-living entities, a sort of magical venus flytrap that sprouts up to leech the mana off powerful monsters and stupid adventurers.

What if the bandit is a disenfranchised knight out for vengeance? Maybe he is the reason the bandits are doing so well in the first place.

Entitled piece of shit. Go back to videogames.

I think you're vastly overestimating the complexity of the project I'm working on.

It's mostly "every 500 years, roll to see who takes over the structure, what changes they make to it, and what loot they leave behind when they stop inhabiting it".

That's the second biggest monkey head I've ever seen!

Somewhat similar, I have run a campaign with a functioning 'Adventurer's Guild' that funded dungeons.

My party found a dungeon with a skeleton-crew coat-check at the entrance. Upon exiting the dungeon, the skeletal keeper sold them "I lived through the Lathen Mausoleum and all I got was this stupid '_____' " gear.

The intent was that low level adventurers don't become high level out of nowhere. Sometimes they need a little push.

>The barbarian coat-checked the dead rabbits she had strapped to her belt
>The voucher for her rabbits confused her, as she couldn't read.
>Later found the voucher for a cloak of resistance.

This is just the universe properly incentivizing do-gooders.

I always liked the 'Random dungeons naturally spawn in hidden/dangerous/mystical areas'

It appeals to my like of super pulpy fantasy.

>not setting up your own dungeon using the loot scavenged from monsters you killed to lure other low level adventurers in so that you can rob them of their starting gold/resources
>not repeating this until you get better loot to lure better adventurers in and create a functional murder-economy

Peasants.

Some insanely brash god of Justice lays a curse upon the whole damn planet. Any person guilty of a crime in the god's eyes will eventually have a prison built around them by the will of the god incarnate in the fabrics of the earth and nature itself. Villains are forever on the run with the especially wicked leaving labyrinthine ramparts in their wake

>Honesty
>Kindness
>Generosity
>Loyalty
Ex>Mirth

Dwarven Ninja Warrior.