How do I politely explain to my players that Charisma checks don't fix everything...

How do I politely explain to my players that Charisma checks don't fix everything. The party had two paladins and a bard and all three players have started just rolling charisma the second they run into another living creature.

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JoJo's_Bizarre_Adventure#Reception
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Start by politely explaining to them that Charisma checks don't fix everything and go from there

Have some common sense

Remind them that all the rules do with a successful Diplomacy check is make them want to kill them more gently, maybe keep their baby-faces more intact so they can sell them as slaves.

Just because they like you doesn't mean they're not going to shiv you, take your loot, and being pretty probably just means they've got even worse plans for ya.

Set them against something with even more charisma than they have.
Like that

Some monsters won't be swayed by charisma checks.
Like Golems and mindless undead.

I would also have them describe what they are doing to warrant a charisma check. It sounds boring the way you describe it.

yandere

Make one of them charm someone into liking them. Liking them very very much.

...

...

google says nothing about the source, and I can't edit out the dem parts. Maybe some of you anons know it?

"That's a great point. I'm going to feel really guilty for killing you."

Wasn't that like, halfway into the story?

about that i think

A natural 20 is not an automatic success when dealing with non-combative matters. This is a meme that was started from the common use of a houserule, as well as newcomers to the gaming table being fans of "Lolsorandumb" play.

Also, Charisma can only have as much power as the GM establishes through play. If every time they succeed a Charisma check they automatically pass things they dislike just from "being pretty", then they are going to abuse the fuck out of it.

How I've always ran Charisma is, even though you may roll a Charisma check, you still have to talk your way through something and be relatively convincing.

It's from a Gaia Online storyline comic. No it isn't smut.

>good news: get dragon
>bad news: do not get off dragon
>ever

Have their actions actually have modifiers to the check.

Oh, you are acting clueless, -4. Oh, you actually are being rude and insulting -8. Now being a full fledge douche and respecting noone else, -20. Now you shit on the king's throne and called him a coward? -80.

Same difficulty numbers, just there actions make it so that they will pay for it.

Oh and don't be a tard and have 20 be autowin. Use the epic rules and have both 20 and 1 explode, therefore with the -80, chance of getting out of it... well some autist can calculate it for you.

>good news?: get dragon off

I'd love to pull off that scene in a game sometime.

"Either of you ladies know a good vet? Because these pythons are sick."
Or if I flub the roll: "Are you a good vet!? Because... My cat is dying!"

1: have the party face enemies who don't understand them
2: have the party face enemies that want to take their stuff
3: only let them roll diplomacy IF they have something to offer the enemy, otherwise the enemy gets attacks in

Make them regret succeeding.

I regret nothing.

It reminds me of that time in a black crusade game our "face man". Well as much of a face man we could have in a group consisting of a bumbling chaos sorcerer two slaaneshi marines and a autistic heretek.

>Lesser Khornate chaos warlord chargeing our cover.
>Faceman yells "Khorne is a shit god!"

This causes him to remove his helmet and torch most of his buddies while chargeing our rocks.

>GMs that let their players roll for things whenever they want instead of telling them when to roll for things

I will never understand this.

Best hope that the party's charisma isn't ridiculous then or OP's gonna need to start pulling out either cultist masterminds or Jojo villains.

I recognize. That loli.

When a player wants to make a Charisma check, insist that they declare their intent for the check and the approach they're going to take. It doesn't have to be verbose, it can be very concise e.g. Intent: "I want to convince the guard to let us pass" Approach: "I'm going to bribe him" or "I'm going to threaten him" etc.

Once they've disclosed these two things, now you can easily determine everything for the check: How difficult it should be, what bonuses/penalties apply, and what the consequences should be for success or failure.

Hearing what they intend and how they plan to go about it also helps to determine if success is even feasibly possible, in which case, you can either let them know it isn't going to work or allow it to blow up in their face.

>Character attempts to intimidate the devil warlord on his throne in the middle of his stronghold
>High modifier, natural 20
>"Your glare is met by the wary gaze of the warlord. He seems to consider your threat, as his men stand by to attack you should he give the word. His son looks infuriated by your insolence, and is inches away from drawing his weapon."
>"But before the situation breaks down, the warlord waves his hand and stands up. "I have met many interesting mortals in my time, but few who would dare to speak to one of my rank in such a fashion. I would know your name, warrior, and where your spirit of defiance arises from. From there I will decide your fate.""
I prefer to interpret 'success' against the impossible as an opportunity to explore a new approach, or revealing formerly nonexistent resources or options.
Kind of like 'no, but' options in rules - lite games.

>jojo

Why throw shit at people.
There's nothing worse than using something from Jojo and expecting people outside of that retarded universe to not just say "That's not cool, that's retarded."

It must suck having such a vitrolic hatred for other people's fun.

It must suck having shit taste.

I mean the natural one is let there be an actual risk if they fail

this
some of the most fun I've had is from successful charisma checks blowing up in my face

Strictly speaking the story opened up with her murdering the MC in another timeline then jumping back to spend time with him again.

You tell us.

It must suck having an autistic shitfit every time somebody does something you don't like.

Sauce?

Awww! Time to try work out a non-lethal solution, while at the same time brush up on a good "parenting" talk...
>"It's not you, it's me."
>"You can choose between every dragon in the world out there!"

wood fug

>gaiaonline
wow that takes me back. they were dark days

It must suck trying to defend a comic that is universally regarded as retarded, even by it's own fans.

You're okay with liking shit, and that's fine, but don't pretend you have anything that can actually defend your point of view. Just sit in shame and silence, and stop trying to advertise garbage like you think you're getting paid to do so.

And off your high horse too. Liking Jojo puts you in the same tier as /mlp/ fans, just without as high a number.

>Jojo
>Same tier as MLP
Okay for the most part this has all been subjective shitposting, but there is such a point where you start being objectively wrong.

It's part of PC agency. Even if its completely pointless and they have misjudged the situation, let them try it.

I had my party's paladin cast bain on a tree being controlled remotely by an Herbamantic Witch thirty miles away.

Needless to say, it did nothing. But I let him do it anyway.

Just beg that the setting allows dragons to polymorph into human form

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JoJo's_Bizarre_Adventure#Reception

>JoJo's Bizarre Adventure has over 95 million copies in print, and is one of the best-selling Weekly Shōnen Jump series of all-time. For the 10th anniversary of the Japan Media Arts Festival in 2006, Japanese fans voted JoJo's Bizarre Adventure second on a list of the Top 10 Manga of all time.

Ojectively wrong.

I don't think you understand what "objectively" means.

And, what part of both groups of fans being ravenous idiots changes anything?

Well, we got 3 posts in before the derailing started.
I'd say, we're Improving.

>Getting bitchy about opinions.
Your child is showing.

>Don't pretend you have anything that can actually defend your point of view. Just sit in shame and silence, and stop trying to advertise garbage...

95 million copies and runner up for top 10 of all time says it's not garbage, otherwise a good chunk of people would've voted against it, and it would've been canceled before we got to Part 3. Also judging by how universally well-received it is online and in person, I can safely say that JoJo falls under what would widely be regarded as a "good" show.

But to be more Veeky Forums related, one of my favorite campaigns had a warlock that reflavored his class abilities and some spells as a Stand, and that was before I even knew what JoJo was.

>continuing to defend shit
>being this retarded

I can keep this up all day.
Sorry your precious obsession is getting shit on. Maybe you should fuck off to the containment thread for retards like yourself?

>95 million copies and runner up for top 10 of all time says it's not garbage, otherwise a good chunk of people would've voted against it,

Justine Bieber, etc. etc.

>Also judging by how universally well-received it is online

Go to /a/ and enjoy people shitting on it. Hell, it's being shit on right now.

I'm sorry, but the series you obsess about is for idiots, and you are too stupid to even recognize that.

FUCKING GAIAFAGS GTFO [spoilers]me too[/spoilers]

Wait what, I'm pretty sure this isn't Madoka.

Just on the small chance you're not trolling, you must realize there's a difference between cheekily saying
>JoJo
>good
and going on tirades about how JoJo is just as bad as MLP and that all its fans are retards and obsessed and should fuck off to 'containment threads'.
When people see such a strong reaction to something, they're going to poke back even if they agree with you, and you've taken the bait time and time again.

I'm not equating Jojo with /mlp/, I'm equating the fan bases.

Good job proving you're not a bunch of obsessive idiots.

GM decides when ability checks are required not the players.

I guess that's the shortcut for "they try to Seduce / Persuade / Haggle / Intimidate at every opportunity". Calling for Skill Check is in GM's competence alright, but players have agency to frequently set themselves up for situations where such checks are appropriate.

Not the guy you're responding to but I'd like to chime in and say that all you're doing by comparing JoJo to Justin Bieber and telling him to browse /a/ for JoJo hate is proving that people hate popular things. By no means is Justin Bieber especially bad as a musician and as a matter of fact JoJo used praised on /a/ as one of he best Shonen Jump titles until the anime came out and /v/ fell in love with it. Not to say the most popular things are especially good but they're usually not especially bad just exceedingly mediocre.

What is this from anyway? Seen it twice on here.

There's also that whole "all entertainment is fundamentally subjective" thing but nobody can actually be adults about the stuff they like so try telling them that.

>as a matter of fact JoJo used praised on /a/ as one of he best Shonen Jump titles

/a/ isn't a hivemind. Beyond, that. people have been calling Jojo stupid everywhere since the series began, largely because as much as you may like it, it's really impossible to argue that it isn't stupid. Most of the fans have gone past accepting that, and embrace it instead.

It revels in its stupidity. Basks in it. It is an incredibly stupid series that persists largely due to a rabid fanbase who are somewhere on the same wavelength of stupidity.

If Jojo appeals you, I'm sorry, but part of you is stupid. It's kind of like you're a little broken, like the part of your brain that screams "Oh, c'mon, this battle stopped making sense five chapters ago and he's still dragging it out" just isn't working.

Here's that
>(You)

>I hate fun and you can't make me enjoy it

k keep me posted

The odds of rolling 4 consecutive 20s on a d20 is (1/20)^4, or 1 in 160,000

And that doesn't take autism, just an understanding of middle school level math.

...And? Can you connect enjoying stupid entertainment with lacking actual intelligence? Do only enjoy the finest in Japanese animation and graphic novels, savoring your 1982 Bordeaux as Schumann plays softly in the background? I, for one, am not so obsessed with quality in entertainment that my gut reaction on seeing JoJo posted is
>Enjoying stupid things makes you a stupid dumb
>I am smarts and only enjoy smarts animes
Try harder.

I read that filename as "fartomancer.jpg" for some reason

I like that idea. My interpretation of crits has generally been that a critical success means that your strike hit at the exact spot, angle, and force you were going for, although there are still reasons why it might not be an insta-kill. Just an exceptionally well-executed attack.

Similar subtleties can exist for charisma and diplomacy things.

Yeah, if the PCs want to do something, let them. Maybe it has a zero percent chance of success, but let them try. That's how my first DM was, and it worked out really well for us. We were a bunch of beginners and we got learn the game and setting through trial and error. That may not work the best for everyone or for every party, but I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it more than I would have if he had just said "you can't do that". Instead he'd say "Okay, roll against X." and usually he'd roll some dice, although I suspect that sometimes it was just to keep us on our toes and what his dice said didn't actually matter.

She went back in time to save him actually because of the whole "game" preface because she couldn't save him the first time, when she showed up in the previous timeline she killed her other self (that existed in that timeline), then got paranoid that her parents would figure out that she wasn't the right Yuna, and because of that killed her parents and hid them in a room in her house. (Which the MC later opens the door and see's that, and leads to the situation that is desribed in the original image, if I remember correctly)

Fuck I need to reread Mirai Nikki again.

Wasurenagumo, according to Google reverse image search

>Can you connect enjoying stupid entertainment with lacking actual intelligence?

Yes.
You.

We're not talking "guilty pleasure" stupid. Jojo is moronic to the point where it's the manga equivalent of watching professional wrestling.
Y'know, the thing that it's cute if they're watching it when they're 8, but you get worried when they're 12 and still haven't grown out of it.

As with all attributes/skills, they are NOT a replacement for the players. Rolling implies a chance of failure, ergo the players are implicating their own characters can't handle a social situation without risking a fuckup.

Charisma is a barometer of social awareness, personality, magnetism and to some irregular extent, comeliness. Players ought to recognize that they can and should handle ANY situation, whether it be combat or social, through roleplay first, dice second--because otherwise they're always risking dice hitting the table instead of playing compelling characters or making logical decisions.

Tell me based user, if JoJo is complete and utter garbage, what anime should I be watching? Please shed light through the darkness that is shit tier anime.

Armored Trooper Votoms.

...

Are you looking for combat shonen? Or are you finally gravitating more towards seinen?

Because, it's really easy to recommend seinen, to the point where even someone clearly intending to be antagonistic can't really do much. Like, what are you going to do? Tell me 20th century Boys isn't great? Got a bone to pick with Black Lagoon or Berserk?

Was actually just fishing for anime recommendations in the most sarcastic and antagonistic way I could.

Even for combat shonen, Ippo, Magi, and HxH are great for what they are. Black Lagoon not really my thing, Berserk is amazing, but the fact that it's slowed to a crawl with no real end in sight is disheartening, will have to check out 20th Century Boy.

A new challenger comes up.

(OP) #
#

Gee, thanks. I'll have to remember that while I'm kicking your butt.

What if I like BOTH the works of Naoki Urasawa and Hirohiko Araki?

Make them have to actually /act/ charismatic.

>a charismatic PC is leveraging his charisma trait and i can't deal with it

For fuck's sake, you have a player who wants to use their Charisma trait. That's FANTASTIC. Start responding in kind. Pit them against other social builds, if they're big enough to have a reputation have their enemies start stuffing their ears with wax, and in the mean time start having some kind of social lightning rod in encounters that's hard to charm and has leverage over the rest of the encounter.

If all else fails, throw penalties at the problem goes away.

If it's really that against the tone of your game, why the hell did you let them have a high enough charisma that this could be a problem instead of a waste of a dice roll?

Spoiler that shit.

Also, in the second timeline the parents were already dead when 1st Yuno killed 2nd Yuno.

Thank you, since that little thumbnail gave zero results

Ugh, reverse image search is only giving me the puffy vulva meme

players must be able to get around fast on your railroad

Explain that all charisma does is make the bouncer like you after he's done throwing you out. He's still gonna throw you out, but he'll wave to you at the supermarket after.

Explain the disposition system most modern games have that require time and several checks to raise disposition more than temporarily? Seriousy, one check doesn't turn your most hated rival to your BFF, it just makes him consider you on a SINGLE point at ONE TIME. You gotta worn at it and earn his favor over time.

>Start responding in kind.

Not universally helpful. It's all well and good if the players did it because they wanted social challenges, but it falls flat on players that saw a CHA build as an ez-mode way of winning challenges outside of dungeons.