Why is Veeky Forums so afraid of femanons playing games?

Then again, dogshit like this which portrays a nuanced situation as one sided (regardless of which 'side' it's advocating) is also to blame for a lot of the furor going around.

>dogshit which portrays a nuanced situation as one sided
So, every political webcomic ever?

Pretty much, although if those views and ideas were constrained to dumb comics we'd likely be having a lot happier time in general.

I miss 2007

nobody who actually plays tabletop games has an issue with women playing their tabletop games. They might have some choice stories about shitty female players, but the people who make the blanket posts about women ruining the hobby are here in the interest of fighting an internet culture war, not goblins and dark elves.

I don't have a problem with them, and they're acting like That Guy, I'll treat them like I would a guy by telling them to knock that shit off.

Old habits die hard I guess.
Veeky Forums as a whole was founded on "There are no girls on the Internet."
Also, being a nerd is the new "cool."

>"There are no girls on the Internet."
Boys are boys, girls are boys and overly friendly underaged girls are FBI agents.

Pretty much

This is the only truth in this world.

I do.
Every female player I've had in any of my tables has been a problematic player.
They don't read the rules,
They don't mix well with the rest of the party,
They don't focus on roleplaying and just want to lol kill things.
They don't respect schedules and pretty much show just whenever they want to.
And this is all coming from a DM who has forgiven PCs for messing up with a black dragon just because they complimented him enough.
You could say the bad female RPGer to good female RPGer is the same as males, but in my experience, it's not.
I'm pretty sure there are good female players out there, but I've never met one worth saving.

youtube.com/watch?v=hgTDOG107Yc

Highly doubt this happens :^)

>Every subculture does it.

And speaking from 35 years of observing various subcultures, I'd say it's almost always at that point when the subculture starts to become a cancerous circlejerking cesspit.

It's typically a mix of the following:
>lonely, jaded men with no girlfriends and bad past experiences
>people who are afraid of the "SJW" boogeyman
>people who are so obsessed with Internet culture that they think everything is "Reddit" or "Tumblr" out to get them
>just plain sexist people
>/v/ and /pol/ backwash

There is always atechan

Which is fucking dead btw

a lot of fear is that you'll get the feminazi too

I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to keep even more toxic people from causing more drama in a community because of a lack of sincerity in the unifying hobby itself.

But yeah, I like to joke that the obsession with authenticity is killing black metal.

And the state of things is such that people tend to cave to women's demands simply because they are women and they don't want to be accused of being sexist misogynistic pigs

I do.
Every male player I've had in any of my tables has been a problematic player.
They don't read the rules,
They don't mix well with the rest of the party,
They don't focus on roleplaying and just want to lol kill things.
They don't respect schedules and pretty much show just whenever they want to.
And this is all coming from a DM who has forgiven PCs for messing up with a black dragon just because they complimented him enough.
You could say the bad male RPGer to good male RPGer is the same as females, but in my experience, it's not.
I'm pretty sure there are goodemale players out there, but I've never met one worth saving.

>it's almost like anecdotal evidence and generalizing entire groups of people is bullshit

US or THEM mentality

both sides act the same they just morph words around

It's not really. Because (at least in the US) the bias is towards giving women the benefit of the doubt. It's not a generalization, it's fact. Just look at the results of divorces for evidence of this bias. If a woman comes into our local gaming store and then left telling people all sorts of spurious things, she will be believed at least 8 out of 10 times.

See the difference is that user isn't making shit up to prove a point while you are.

The majority of players are male. If you have a good player, they are statistically likely to be male.
Females are a minority in rpgs for a reason. Most female in the hobby either has a relationship with someone already in the hobby or has a mental problem. Probably both.
There are innate biological differences in interests and hobbies

Usually because they will jump into roleplaying games for the wrong reasons. Not to say they're all bad and that's the only reason but male players do it as well. Also in a mostly male group if a particular guy is fucking things up for everyone, he's going to get called out on it almost straight up and sometimes it's mid-game. If a woman does it, she might not get called out on it straight away and may even be defended by other dudes in the group leading to further drama.

Now if it was an all female group and some girl started fucking things up i'm sure she'd get called out almost immediately by the other female players too, but if it was a guy in the same place then he may not get necessarily called out straight away as they either sit in awkward silence and uneasiness until the other players form a conglomerate outside of the game to discuss the problem and what to do.

>There are innate biological differences in interests and hobbies

source please

Wasn't there some gender studies in Sweden that showed that biological males were more likely to gravitate towards toys usually associated with boys?

Common fucking sense.
With all the push for women equality and coming down with the hammer of god on "sexism" in industry, you honestly believe that the reason women aren't going out in droves to work on oil rigs,go into STEM, be construction workers, garbagemen and any number of other "manly" jobs is because sexism?

Winner winner winner. Shut down the thread, he's got it.

The problem isn't "LE GRILLS SUX AT GAMEZ AMIRITE", it's that interrelationships between the sexes behave different than with the same sex.

In an otherwise all-male group, the female player is special. In an otherwise all-female group, and male player is special.

And since there's a majority of male gamers, we see the first scenario far more than we see the second. That's why there's this false perception that women are terrible players.

They aren't.

There are just too many creepy betas that can't treat women like normal people. They can't call the horrible female players out on their shit.

It's fucked up. And it causes this idea that women = bad players.

Why the fuck would women automatically be bad players? Is there some female gene that causes them to act like Mary Sues? No, you idiot. There isn't.

It's sociological.

While what you are saying is true for many situations, Gamergate is literally the least nuanced that Trump's general election campaign. Either a fledgling movement about ethics in journalism was completely co-opted, or it was tacked on as an afterthought to angry spergs. You'd think they would have learned their lesson with Anita.

There are women in oil rigs.
There are women in STEM.
There are women that are construction workers.
There are women that are garbagemen.

The reason there isn't a 50/50 split of sexes is because society still has gender-specific expectations on what men and women are supposed to do as jobs. It's getting better, but it is in no way going to change overnight.

Maybe in 100 years, the split will be 50/50. I know that in the sci-fi games I GM, I make the split 50/50.

...

>The reason there isn't a 50/50 split of sexes is because society still has gender-specific expectations on what men and women are supposed to do as jobs.
And why are there different expectations?
Really makes you think

>Every single time someone mentions female players, there are suddenly rivers of shit spewed about how "they just want attention" and "they're all shit roleplayers" and "they never know the rules".

You just answered your own question you turd
Because theirs no way all these opinions could be based on previous experiences, right?

China

>The majority of players are male. If you have a good player, they are statistically likely to be male.
And if you have a bad player, they are statistically likely to be male.

Most women don't want to get dirty or do manual labor. This is not a recent thing. There are always exceptions to any argument, of course, but this has been the trend throughout recorded history.

Is it because they're raised that way? Sure, maybe. However, there's also a natural reason why boys gravitate more towards masculine things and girls gravitate more towards feminine things: it appeals to their senses.

In any case, it's all just a huge blend of upbringing, tradition, culture, natural senses, and countless other factors. There is definitely sexual discrimination in the world, but you can't blame it all on that. Women don't work in certain fields because they just don't want to do it.

>Most female in the hobby either has a relationship with someone already in the hobby or has a mental problem. Probably both.

>tells other people to stop making up shit
>makes up his own shit

I am a player in one group and a DM for two.

My favorite group is the smallest group, which consists of two girls. I run Call of Cthulhu and they're both pretty sharp. We usually play about six hours and can clear about half an act of one of the published mega-campaigns in that time. It's the kind of group where everyone at the table cares as much about the characters they meet and the way we all interact to create a good story, while at the same time the focus stays mission-oriented and there are plenty of awesome dice-based moments as well.

Middle of the road group is my regular 3.5 group. They're more creative than to name EVERY character a stupid uncreative but temporarily amusing meme name (oneshots being the exception, obvious reasons) and they get along well enough and there's jokes to keep it from getting too serious so it's one of the better groups I have taken part in.

My least favorite group (but don't let me give you the wrong idea, I still really enjoy it) is the nine-man, one DM campaign. I'm mercifully a player in this one. DM's totally green and constantly relies on me for DMing advice (which I'm fine with honestly), had a railroading problem but I talked to him in private about it and he was really chill, apparently not gonna happen again, but his real mistake was inviting so many people to his first ever D&D game. The game he's trying to run seems fine, and everyone's character concepts are a nice blend of fun and serious, which is essential for any RP campaign, but things have a tendency to get bogged down because half the players are also new. So they'll oftentimes ask him something to clarify within the rules. So he asks me their something. So I either answer him or Google it and then answer him. He looks at the player and asks what they'd like to do in light of the information. Fun resumes. Most of the time this is fine. The other problem I have is spotlight hogs. That's MY spotlight. Bitch.

Manual labor sucks.

Thank God for robots.

Anita Sakeesian as set the women's movement back further than any misogynist in history.

Only people within the subcultures make the distinction. To everyone else, we're all just gamers.

>go into STEM
Women are a solid majority of S students, literally every field is the same at this point, it's only in IT and Engineering shit that men are a majority.

Because in the dawn of time, men hunted for food and women cared for babies. It was just how the different sexes were designed.

Men can become physically stronger than women much more easily, and often are. Women are fully-equipped (breast milk, instincts) to care and nurse for infants, something vital to the survival of a species. Back then, women were too valuable to be spearing mammoths.

That just kind of stayed the same for a long while. Women took care of children, men worked. Men were just more expendable than women.

Now, it's 2016. We don't have to hunt for our food. Men can care for babies just as well as women can, thanks to formula and parenting books. There's no need for traditional gender roles to stay in effect. I mean, they were very useful when they were needed. But they aren't needed anymore.

Society is slow to change, though. Things don't happen overnight. But eventually we can get rid of dumb fucking sexist idiots like you.

She didn't do any damn thing you cockgarbling autist, she would be a minor blogger nobody cares about if it wasn't for /v/'s tantrum.

Yeah it's nice to live in a world of goodies and baddies and you don't have to think about anything

>Because in the dawn of time
See me after class.

I'm going by my own experiences, feel free to ignore.
But I know myself and a few others tried ttrpg from a vacuum just deciding "lets try this shit out" one day.
While the females it's all because they had boyfriend who was already playing.

>cockgarbling

I'm trying to picture it but... garbling?

>designed

Go back to bed, Ken Ham.

It's a turn of phrase, you imbecile.

>Anita Sakeesian

Actually she was a nothing and a nobody, some minor blogger that no-one outside of her social media echo chamber ever bothered with. Then the Gamergatetards decided they were going to go to "war" with her, and suddenly she's the international expert on sexism in gaming and a pop cultural icon. Good work there lads.

>Shit no one said

Do you make shit up to look smart to yourself? Or to anyone else? How's that working out for you?

designed by the process of evolution, asswipe.

meant to say gargling

>She didn't do any damn thing you cockgarbling autist, she would be a minor blogger nobody cares about if it wasn't for /v/'s tantrum.
That's false. She literally falseflagged herself hard enough to get popular. But she did setback the movement it is what it is because of her.

Don't blame me! I showed up late. By the time I was learning about her, she was already telling the UN that men should be prosecuted based purely on the accusation of sexual misconduct because no woman would ever lie...

>Society is slow to change, though. Things don't happen overnight. But eventually we can get rid of dumb fucking sexist idiots like you.
Yeah it's called evolution. Meanwhile, in the Year of Our Lord 2016, male and female evolved to have different innate interests and that hasn't changed.
>muh sexism
Doesn't change reality, kid

Ooh... damn it. I like garbling better. Do you think that when some ancient dudes were sitting around inventing English, they came up with the words first or the meanings? Because I think we garbling needs a meaning... that can be applied to cocks, of course.

>muh falseflag
pls go, /v/irgin

>Most women don't want to get dirty or do manual labor
>Women don't work in certain fields because they just don't want to do it.
>women aren't going out in droves to work on oil rigs,go into STEM, be construction workers, garbagemen

Are you guys fucking idiots? Who the hell wants to do manual labor? It's awful. Are you seriously telling me that you want nothing more than to work on an oil rig?

Women don't want to work on oil rigs or be garbagemen. Neither do men. Nobody does. They're shit jobs, and most have high casualty rates.

>inb4 no comeback

it's true tho.
I can only recall one or two instances, where a woman came into the hobby on her own that I met. And one of these I only guess, because I never asked.
Every other woman came into the hobby either because she had a boyfriend doing it - or because she had a big brother doing it.

The latter are usually the better ones, mostly, since they join up out of enjoyment. Siblings know each other, know what they enjoy, and they give each other shit.

Girls who join because their boyfriend is playing are usually either fucked in the head and doing it to excert some control over his bro-time, or they're attention whores.

There's a name for that, it's called the Streisand Effect.

And even that's true only in the west. In south and Central Asia it's nearly 50/50 across the board in STEM labor markets, and even in "manly" jobs there are a lot more women.

>literally making no sense
>grasping at straws this hard

HEY GUYS HEY GUYS

>anecdotal evidence about how the ONE time I met a grill during tabletop she was kind of annoying

SO YOU SEE ALL FEMALES ARE TERRIBLE ATTENTION WHORES WHO SHOULDN'T EVER PLAY GAMES

The people who usually uphold manual labor as superior aren't the ones doing the manual labor.

It's also dumb, women were manual laborers from the beginning of the industrial reolution.

That is... fabulously untrue.

Videogames are the mainstreamest of mainstream.
They control a market comparable in size to movies.
I'd bet that among newer generations, more people have played video games than have heard of D&D.

Tabletop gaming is not even ballpark related to flashy videogames in the minds of most.
It remains niche, weird, and entirely distinct.

Nobody comes in all on their own, though. Hell, I got into the hobby because some guy got me into it (no homo... he was my cousin and I was 12... YOUNGER cousin so no pedo, either!).

Specifically, the issie is when they come into the game becasue they want to be near (read: in control) of their boyfriend's every moment and if he is having fun without her, even for a minute, then she's not the center of his very being.

THAT is the problem.

Do you agree instinct is genetic? ( Of course you do, otherwise you're a retard and there is no point in continuing this discussion. )
Do you agree that instinct influences behavior?

Congratulations, you literally agree with what I've been saying.
If you don't, the explain to me why and how spiders spin webs so consistently between species, how birds just 'know' to learn how to fly, or how literally any dumb animal at all bothers to reproduce.

This is beyond common sense. At this point you're just denying reality because of ideology.

Exactly. Anyone who is a manual laborer is one out of necessity. When you run out of men... you move onto women to do manual labor.

See: female factory workers during WWII.

If everyone is posting evicence, it starts to lose its anecdotal status. Unless we get evidence to the converse with equal frequency.

Man, I hate dudebros. I know due to the fact that video games for whatever reason had to gain movie level budgets. It was ridiculous how many people hop on and try to talk to about video games when they only know CoD.

Because girls are scary.

You know... I suppose that's true these days. I stand corrected, user. Thanks for not calling me a retard, autist or a cockgarbler.

On a lighter note from the rest of this thread I've actually had a really good experience with women at the table!
My group now consists of two women and three guys and everything is pretty cool, the guys tend to focus more on the combat and the two women are pretty into puzzles and the social side of things which all in all makes for a nicely rounded group.
I think the only time I've come across a bad player who was a woman was when I was still in Upper school and some guy brought his girlfriend along and she was kinda disinterested, but then that's a typical kinda scenario when people bring their partners along.

Are you implying that men are evolutionarily more inclined to roll dice and pretend to be elves around a table with a bunch of their friends?

Tell me, which strand of DNA influences the "tabletop" instinct?

Pure logical thinking cannot yield us any knowledge of the empirical world; all knowledge of reality starts from experience and end in it

All generalizations are untrue.

>some individuals post stupid opinions on Veeky Forums
who would have thought

>instinct is genetic
Stick to singing about your own ignorance, Sam Cooke

Men are more inclined to competition, games, and concrete rules.
Tabletop RPGs derived from wargames.
A form of competition.

Why are people so willing to be revisionists to match reality to their ideology instead of matching their ideology to reality?

>Instinct is not genetic
As opposed to...?
If you're going to make a counterargument, you could at least actually write a rebuttal instead of just ad homming and saying I'm wrong.

Veeky Forums stuff is 17% the revenue of video games. It's not a tiny fraction.

>Good experiences with femanons.

Met a girl who was a gamer. Her brother had introduced her to it. We hit it off. Married. She continued to play until we had our first kid but stopped so I could keep playing.

I was/am the GM and she knew if I stopped, the entire group would fall apart...how's THAT for a keeper and a good experience?

Still gaming. She's still cool with it. She's wanting me to start a family game. My kids are definitely old enough and the few times we've played similar games (like Descent) they really got into it.

Because if you erase everyone who does not believe in your ideology, then your ideology becomes the new reality.

>100 replies in an hour

Fuck politics

fuck you fucking faggots in this thread

Until it meets a hard science wall like biology.

As allowed to social dynamics are just instincts you moron.

Social dynamics ARE mostly instinct, at the very least sub-conscious.

It's well known that the majority of communication is in body language, most of which is instinct and automatic ( why is a smile friendly while scowls and frowns feel hostile? )

Congrats man!
Family games are pretty cool if you can get them started.