/whf/ Warhammer Fantasy General - Raise an Army Edition

Interesting.

Why are all the Bret peasants so misshapen?

Take after their masters

I know they live in abject squalor, aren't they also forced to inbreeed or something?

There's nobody forcing them to pork their sisters at swordpoint. They just live in tiny villages, and especially in places like Arden or Mousillion they don't travel far from home.

Here we go.

> They may not leave their home estate unless allowed; as a result a certain degree of inbreeding is quite common.

This is what I was thinking about but this is just from the wiki I don't know if this has been retconned since.

I've never really understood that. Sure, the warhammer world can be pretty dangerous, but the nobles don't care of the peasants run away during battle, so why would they care if they leave their villages?

The Empire never seems to suffer from horrible levels of inbreeding, and they've got roughly the same set up - despite having more large towns, they've also got plenty of rural villages. The only reason I can think of is maybe taking the best of the peasants as Men-At-Arms might weaken the gene-pool, but again, Men-At-Arms can flee the field without their masters giving a shit, and when not at war they just patrol their lord's lands and presumably get to visit home and have families and stuff. So it's probably just GW trying to give Bretonnia some grimdark without much sense to it.

Part of it is that the Empire has better infrastructure. Between the rivers, the roads and fortified roadhouses (and the River- and Roadwardens respectively), moving around the Empire is generally easier and safer. Add on the fact that the Brets have tied their peasants to the land in a way that the Empire doesn't, and that the general feudal structure means many small borders you have to cross, with varying degrees of douchebag knights who might demand a toll (something that the merchant class of the Empire actively opposes and undermines), and you get a general inclination against going anywhere.

Besides, to these people freedom of movement is overrated. They don't have pilgrimage locations to get to (unless you're a grail pilgrim, who is far more extreme than the average), and the wool fair happens once a year at the town 3 miles down the road where they can buy all their special items, why risk travel? It's not like the fields are going to plow themselves while you're gone.

Friendly reminder that everything has been unlocked in the crowdfunding campaign for the undying dynasties
>ushabtis with bows/great weapons/pair of weapons
>tomb king
>hierophants
>lich priest
>tomb prince
>necrotect
>battle standard bearer
>skeleton warriors
>skeleton archers
>skeleton cavalry
>chariots
>necrosphinx monstrous infantry
>warsphinx
>necrosphinx
>carrions
>scorpions
>sepulchral stalkers
>tomb guards with great weapons, hand weapon and shield, halberds and pair of weapons
>death arc on skeletal crocodile
>death arc with guards
>skulls catapult
>titan with pair of weapons, great weapon or bow
>scarab swarms
>scholopendra constructs with mummies in them on chariot bases

I thought there were a lot of pilgrimage places - the castle that Gilles le Breton grew up in, the odd grail chapel, that sort of thing. Grail pilgrims just follow grail knights.

Still, I never considered tolls and lack of protection. Though I suppose particularly brave peasants could still make use of rivers to travel by boat or raft, and I think there's some fluff about river traders.

youtu.be/1yI1LVCGNpc
>As part of Total War: WARHAMMER’s ongoing free content program, an update released alongside The Grim and The Grave will introduce a number of unique new battle maps and Vlad von Carstein as a free legendary lord for all players. The first – and arguably greatest – of the Vampire Counts is a nigh-unrivalled practitioner of the Lore of Vampires, granting Vanguard Deployment to all units under his command, whose thirst for the throne of the Empire rivals even that of Mannfred himself.

All hail to best vampire, the Papa Vlad.

My understanding was the the peasants weren't the ones who would go on pilgrimage. That was the nobility, going to be inspired by the good work of Gilles, the Lady, and the blessed Knights.

The only place I know of where there's mass pilgrimage in Bretonnia is that Shallyan temple that's the HQ for the cult.

I guess it really sucks to be a peasant in Bretonnia then.

Nonsense! They are blessed by the gods, to have such a noble king as Louen Leoncoeur, such an abundant land as Bretonnia, and such generous lords as their local knights. Theirs is the greatest land under the sun.

Do dead Knights and their horses usually get paraded around into battle?

The holy ones do. Grail Pilgrims love to go into battle bearing the body of a Grail Knight.

...

Endhammer friends, hear this call:
> The human kingdoms were shattered and exotic beastmen of all kinds poured from the jungles. A kingdom of beasts is growing in the subcontinent, led by the engimatic "Raj," a man with a tiger's head.
Tiger-men should not be known by such names as "rakshasi" or "were-tigers". Not only are they incorrect, but they are offensive. The only acceptable name they may be addressed by shall be the Tigors.

How about cheetah gors?
youtu.be/WZlYGN5W2Yg

How come there can be sexy wizardesses? You'd think magic would be as much of a strain and physical drain as in 40k, since both come from the Warp, albeit WFB wizards use the winds that stream into the mortal world from the warp, not the Warp itself.

Elspeth Von Draken doesn't look bad, its only Sienna who is old.

Why not Rakshasi for the Indish name? It means demon/monster/foreigner. But "Tigor" is a nice play on words, were an Imperial to travel to Ind and find it now run by semi-civilized jungle cats.

Speaking of, the Raj still needs a counts-as model (which is the same size as Warhammer figs) and stats (and if he's gonna be one of the big baddies of Endhammer, he needs some badass fluff + badass magic items).

Bretonnians have the best models and fluff. :(.

Y u kill GW?

But if we're still talking Endhammer, Bretonnia experiences a small amount of social mobility in Archaon's wake. With northern Bretonnia raided by norscans, southern Bretonnia burned by civil war, and most of Bretonnia's knightly gallantry lying dead in the fields of Altdorf, new god-king Gilles le Breton finds himself at a loss for knights.

Surviving Men-At-Arms Serjeants and important persons are elevated to the rank of knight, and knighthoods are granted to hedge warriors joining Gilles' much-depleted forces on their Grail Wars to cleanse Tilea and Estalia of ratmen. Men of little renown but with much ambition and luck call themselves "Prince" and "Duke" in Tilea when they possessed no titles before. And, for example, Godemar (I think he was a steward and something to do with sailors in L'Anguille according to the RPG book) is elevated to Duke of L'Anguille as the only man of any note that people will listen to in the city.

"Rakshasa/Rakshasi" has different meanings (which work) but originally referred to a specific race of human-like demons/spirits in Hindu mythology. D&D would later go on to appropriate the name for their cat-folk race.

Having the two just be Indish and Dark Tongue names for the same thing could work. Alternatively, could have Rakshasa be a specific group of Tigors, like Da Immortulz are to Black Orcs.

I don't know DND. I was referring to the folks (like Ravanna) that Rama kills in the Ramayana. I know that, for some reason, when you google "raksasha" now, it comes up with ogres or tiger people with backwards hands.

Surely all this elevating peasants into nobility would cause a bit of an uproar?

Besides, the Bretonnian system is practically made for pushing out knights quickly. There's probably tons of Knights Errant in the wings, if not other noble sons to young to fight yet but could be put in important positions with stewards to hold the real power for a while.

Do you know how many knights are supposed to have died at Altdorf and the Civil War? I'm not even sure where Gilles' knights were supposed to have come from at the end of End Times; they were writing as if they'd forgotten they'd killed off most of Bretonnia in the preceding books.

So, there might be uproar. But from like... 12 people. The Knights Errant (pretty much all of them) died at Altdorf. There may yet be some sons not old enough to fight.

Well in that case, since I had assumed there were more nobles yet alive than that, I'm surprised there's not outright rebellion, with peasants storming the not!Bastielle. I don't think peasants would want to keep the old system as much as abolish it, especially since after the End Times it wouldn't have any divine weight behind it. I imagine Myrmidia worship would grow more common, or Shallya.

>Surely all this elevating peasants into nobility would cause a bit of an uproar?

That's something I'd like to see in Endhammer. I like the idea of the peasantry of Bretonnia, now free from the tyranical grasp of their knightly overlords, go on to attempt to replicate everything about the old system but having absolutely no clue what any of it means.

A bunch of peasants pretending to be knights, randomly having duels over pointless shit and giving out titles and knighthoods for the most pedantic tasks, because that's how they perceived the situation when they were underfoot and they just want things to go back to how they were.

Endhammer doesn't go with the revelation of the Lady. In Endhammer, Gilles and the surviving Grail Knights simply keep the secret of the Lady's identity.

In addition, I gotta disagree, as I would think that the peasants would want a return to normalcy after so much bullshit, and suddenly their messiah (Gilles le Breton) has returned as an immortal god king to lead them.

Write some shit and add it to the wiki. Nothing stopping you. That sounds fun. I think on the Discussion page there's talk about who the current Dukes of Bretonnia would be (most of them are the children/related to old Dukes who we confirmed died).

Most of the social upheavel won't be in the form of peasants taking Dukedoms. Rather, peasants become knights. Formerly unknown knights get to make a name for themselves in Errantry Wars in Tilea.

The way I understood the Beasts of Ind, they've got Ungors, Gors, Bestigors, etc. and then a warrior caste (like the Kshatriya of India) of Tigers and Panthers.

Cygors are Elephant men.

> peasants see the elected officials of the Empire and a popular idea arises that Bretonnian nobles and kings are supposed to be voted on
> peasant families kidnapping young women they want their sons to marry and throw them in danger of being eaten by whatever horrific beast they can find, expecting the suitor to heroically save her because that's how they perceive knightly honor
> the peasant suitors don't know how to fight nor slay monsters
> peasants constantly debating on which lake is THE Lake the Lady refers to
> peasant children hearing tales of great crusades and deciding to start their own invasion of Araby by running away from home

Using this in my next WFRP campaign.

Glorious

From Endhammer discussion:

-L'Anguille- Duke Claude is the child of the late Duke Taubert, being only about twelve years of age and controlled by the wealthiest man in Bretonnia, Godemar Fitzgodric, who pressured the barely cognizant widow of Taubert into marrying Claude's older sister to him. While Fitzgodric's plans of independence for L'Anguille have been put on indefinite hiatus due to the return of Gilles and the weakness of the Empire (who could have been an ally), he still pushes forwards with his modernization of L'Anguille, accepting both Imperial and Elven refugees into the city.

-Aquitaine - Aquitaine, due to it's notorious feuding, exacerbated by war, has not been able to properly select a new Duke, as two factions have put forwards their own claimants. The Armandists suggest Duke Hugo, an infant, under the regency of Earl Desroche. The Progenists believe that King Leon was mistaken in not giving the land to the daughters of the old Duke of Aquitaine - and now that one of them has a son, Earl Fluvia backs him as Duke Pascal.

-Artois - Duke Larret is the cultured scion of a cultured dynasty - during his period of errantry he worked as a minstrel in Tilea, something that some of the more crude knights tease him for. While he is approaching his sixtieth year and is a little overweight and balding, he is an adept administrator and strategist. He had old Castle Artois burnt and abandoned after the old Duke, Chilfoy, turned traitor with Mousillon and was found to be allying with Beastmen - Chilfoy was slain in battle with Marquis Desfleuve, Reynard le Chasseur and Baron Chlodegar and a major beastman herdstone uncovered and destroyed. A new Castle Artois has gone up nearby Larret, which Larret has turned into one of the fairest cities in the land.

-Bastonne - Gilles the Unifier, on his return, is once again Duke of Bastonne - Bohemond willingly gave up his dukedom. Gilles has set down the stones for a new capital of Bretonnia near Castle Bastonne.

-Bordeleaux - Duke Frermund has succeeded his father Duke Alberic as ruler of Bordeleaux.

-Cuileaux - Duke Othon rules here. The bloodlines of dead Cuileaux were kept alive in many places among peasant villages who only married others of such lineage, and among many families of Quenelles. In the chaos of the war, such a man rose up to protect the people, a petty hedge knight with a peasant mother known as Othon. Despite his upbringing he fought valiantly for the people and it was due to Othon that the bodies of Louen and Hagen were recovered. Gilles declared that as the Dukes of Mousillon had fallen since he had been gone, he would raise a new Duke. He offered Othon the arms of Moussillon, but, to honour Louen, Othon placed a golden griffin on a green field. He now rules the plains from the river Brienne up to the Barrows of Cuileaux, Quenelles being able to do little to protest due to their perished Duke.

-Gisoreaux - Duchess Frederique rules Gisoreaux, after the death of Duke Hagen and the curious events that managed to turn Marquis Frederic to Duchess Frederique. She has set up her court in Gisoreaux itself and has already endeared herself to her people through her acceptance of refugees - many Gisoreaux lords bought houses in the city but never lived in them, and Frederique has turned these into places for people to live. She is also friendly to Imperials and there is a large population of displaced Reiklanders and Marienbergers here. She has even accepted many Grey Mountain dwarves by using Reiklanders as go-betweens, and is interested in the idea of the dwarves tunneling a road to the isolated northern part of her province.

-Lyonesse - Duchess Konstanze is the widow of Duke Adalhard, who managed to keep her reputation despite the treachery of her husband, likely due to his heroic death, though many dislike her, as she originated as a minor Reikland noblewoman. The poor Duchess, having four daughters but no sons, was forced into taking control of the land until she can find a new husband. She is actually more cunning than she lets on and is already planning to increase her power - the many suitors who want to win her hand, and thus Lyonesse, have become useful tools, though at the moment she is preoccupied trying to avoid losing land to the ghouls to the south. One thing that has angered many nobles is that, due to damage to Lyonesse itself from storms and large waves (caused by the sinking of Uluthuan, the Duchess has moved her court to Sigmarsheim, claiming that when the city is properly repaired she will return - though many believe she simply wishes to surround herself with more Imperials. However, since her absence, the city and most of north-west Lyonnesse has been taken over by Norscan warbands.

-Monfort - Duke Folcard survived the wars and continues to rule, although now sporting a fetching new eyepatch. Folcard has been a stabilizing influence in Bretonnian politics and is even more beloved by the peasants - many think that Gilles will position him as an ambassador for what is left of the Empire.

-Parravon - Duke Cassyon of Parravon survived the war, now matured, and with more interest in managing his province.

>the curious events that managed to turn Marquis Frederic into Duchess Frederique

First off, I'm not sure marquis is an equivalent rank to duke. Second, why the genderbend? Doesn't Duke Hagen have a wife or daughter, so you can just kill off the kid instead of making a rule 63 version?

As I recall it was a play on the whole 'Bretonnian women pretending to be men to go knighting' thing.

I dunno man. Somebody just wrote it up and slapped it on the Endhammer wiki one day. I'm not a huge fan of it. I'm posting them all so that everyone can discuss/review/insult.

>Dorfs
Another thing that really needs proper hashing out is what's going on with High King Ungrim. And are we reviving Garagrim from Storm of Chaos?

That's kind of better, but I think it should be properly explained - otherwise it just sounds like 'hee hee he turned into a girl because magic. No, I do not get a boner from this, I swear.'

And while I know this will be a significantly less popular idea, I think it would be cool for Cuileaux to become something of a new Mousilion: a vampire of the old bloodline manages to get a dukedom made his, like Vlad temporarily got to be truly recognized as a Count in End Times. He refuses to let actual humans in the dukedom, instead relying on the raised knights of Cuileaux and their equally undead retainers.

Eh, I liked the idea of a veritable grail pilgrim recovering the body of the king and finally purifying Bretonnia of the Vampiric taint.

But I agree that the Frederique thing needs to be scrapped or edited.

Speaking of vampires, what happens to the Knights of the Black Grail? Those poor sods who got tricked into thinking they'd become real Grail Knights but end up becoming cursed vampire knights instead.

Didn't they fight for Mallobaude and die?

>Dorfs

King Brokk Ironpick of Karak Norn is uneasy hosting the collected diaspora of Dwarfkind in his small hold. The smallest outside the World's Edge Mountains and possessing no great wealth beyond Tin and a depleting store of semiprecious stones, Karak Norn was never meant to house every surviving Dwarf from Karak Kadrin to Karak Eight Peaks. And yet here they come, sturdy Dwarf boots scuffed from the travel through daemon-infested woods to Averheim, and then on, through Wissenland, to the Grey Mountains.

From Karak Kadrin, only warriors remain. Those who had left behind fell to a cruel trick, the plague of nurgle sweeping through the hold once King Ungrim's forces took the field to fight the Skaven. Zhufbar is a smoking ruin. Karaz-a-Karak, jewel of the Karaz Ankor, is broken and infested by grobi and rakki. Even now, the surviving Thanes of the remaining holds argue and debate who shall become High King if there is no throne for him to sit? No crown to wear. No axe of Grimnir. No Book of Grudges!

Is it just me or do the 9th age dark elves seem rather crappy? A lot of units went up in price and the cult rules, while fluffy, seem super shitty. I understand 8th ed DE were OP as all hell but I feel they've got a bit too far in bringing the DE down. They're supposed to be lightning fast glass hammers that dictate how and when battles occur, but here they just seem kind of inefficient and overpriced.

Of course, the bolt thrower and Dino knights are still excellent units, but the core section seems lackluster, and many awesome units of yesteryear seem pretty shit now. For example, Warlocks cost as much as 3 bolt throwers and only the champion counts as the wiz.

Please someone prove me wrong and explain to me the strengths of my favorite army in the 9th age.

Are you up to date with all the changes in the base rule book? Have you tried comparing yourself to other army books?

I think most armies have gone down in strength from 8th, since all the already established OP shit got nerfed without an overall increase in power level.

They might survive in isolated areas, and begin to cause a terror for peasants who never liked nobles much in the first place - now people claiming to be knights are riding out and drinking blood or murdering villages.

What about the dwarven port in the Border Princes area, Barak Varr?

>nobles and kings are supposed to be voted on

>not realizing that only 15 people, all of them nobles or high priests, actually have a say in the election
Absolutely plebeian. The common man has zero say in politics in the empire and the noble households are almost as exclusive as the ones in Bretonnia. A particularly accomplished warrior or general can be knighted or elevated to their ranks, but that's about it

>araby
>desert people
>elephants
fucking forgeworld

>tfw reading about vanhal
I didn't ask for these feels.
>lets von diehl live because he just wants someone to talk to.
does it get better for him?
Ravana was half brahmin half rakshas
and was pretty based but fell for his willy meme

>everyone talking about ind
>people literally forget that there are humans in there.
this furfaggotry is annoying.

Imports from Cathay or something. They're major traders you know.

maintaining elefuns unless you have the correct geographical base for them is ruinously expensive.

And the middle east was not even famous for it's elefuns either.

Are there any sympathetic necromancers?

Not the cackling monstrous old man type, but more like anti villain type of necromancers.

whole five of them, AFAIK
1. Arkhan the Black
2. Arkhan the Black
3. Arkhan the Black
4. Arkhan the Black
5. Arkhan the Black

Has anyone ever used Kings of War troll models? I'm thinking about buying some to convert into Rat Ogres

ded thread

It seems like living WHFB discussion is only on Veeky Forums now.

It just comes back when someone says 'ded thread'.

Vanhal was sympathetic, but he got worse. But there was still a bit of sympathy to be had at the end as he wasn't sure if he was in control or not. He didn't know if he was the dream or the dreamer.

agreed. any necromancer that makes skellies dance is ok in my book

Extremely detailed hireling rules can be found in Old World Armory.

>I like some of the changes they've done to the WFRP system specifically Careers and Character Health/Damage.

Care to elaborate?

>Call of the Beastmen
>17,49Euro

What the hell? It's the worst faction.

Everyone talking about Ind IN ENDHAMMER

Indish humans got killed and/or enslaved. Stop being such an edgy fuck.

What's forgeworld got to do with it?
Pretty sure that was a scratchbuild for the french golden demon.

YOU TAKE THAT BACK

>Indish humans got killed and/or enslaved. Stop being such an edgy fuck.
what?
ET had all their gods dying. how does that translate into it becoming /fur/?

So a rough draft of what I'd change about the Endhammer Elves:

>Tyrion goes through the flames without being voted in, is accepted as worthy without any magical wards or cheating bullshit, Malekith was just not worthy, end of story

>this pisses off a large portion of elves who would not have voted for Tyrion, first among them Imrik

>Malekith doesn't become phoenix king, instead he draws the blade of Khaine and keeps it, becoming the Avatar of Khaine, but fucks back off to Naggaroth to fight the chaos invasion there

>the resistance against Tyrion almost sparks a civil war among high elves, but just at that moment Morrsleib starts crashing down

>Caledor announces he'll overdrive the Vortex but all elves have to leave Ulthuan, he also awakens all the Volcanoes, which wakes the Dragons

>Imrik and all elves who support his claim immediately begin to leave Ulthuan for the remaining Colonies, many Dragons join the old houses of Caledor in their Exodus to the new homes, most sail to the Isles of Elithis, to create a new Home for the Elves

>Tyrions and his loyalists refuse to leave, altough it soon enough becomes clear they can't stay and eventually they have to leave in a hurry while the Vortex overloads, ripping apart the sea and the ground, only the Annulii mountains remain instact, and the Volcanoes spewing forth Lava

cont.

Indish beastmen take over after all of the Indish gods are killed and the human civilization dies.

It's not any more /fur/ than Beastmen in the Empire, so I don't get what you're going after.

>Tyrion and most of his followers arrive in the Old World, and immediately begin to carve out a place in what remains of the western Border Princes, they establish contact with the Wood Elves in the North and offer military aid

>in the Meanwhile, Malekith with the help of the Widowmaker crushes the main Chaos incursion and drives them off, though the Druchii are too exhausted to give chase, most slaves were killed off or starved, and too many Dark Elves died in the fighting, most territory north of Naggarond is abandoned

>establishing contact with Morathis territory becomes impossible, during the thickest fighting, being cutoff from the main forces of Naggaroth, Morathi swear allegiance to Slaanesh, who helped her to fight off the marauders, though now her followers abolished the worship of Khaine and have given themself fully to Slaanesh, who sees malekith as an enemy.
(allows Morathi elves to field Slaaneshi Daemons and Daemonettes, otherwise not many crunch changes, just fluff)

>Imrik and Malekith make a pact of non-aggression, the High Elves ship grain and other needed things to Naggaroth and establish a defensive alliance to protect Elvenkind. with the Shrine of Asuryan gone and Ulthuan mostly destroyed, there's no point in continuing the age old strife.

>Most of Imriks people arrive at the Isles of Elithis, which despite being very lightly populated, are densely forrested, the Asur immediately begin clearing land and establish towns and ports all over the island, on top of that, the Vortex has no affect on them this far from Ulthuan, and birthrates are booming for the first time in millenia.

map depicts Tyrions territory in the Borderprinces blue, and the newly extended Athel Forest in green.

cont.

There was a Bretonnian professor that ended up using a necromancy spell to tie a the spirit of the wife of a student to a physical place, so he could be with her. But even that brief dabble with necromancy apparently changed his visage to look more skull-like, and another professor later questioned if what he did was truly a good thing.

Map of the Naggaroth Situation, black is Malekiths Elves, Purple is Morathis Elves(Or Chaos Elves)

Blue is Arnheim loyal to Tyrion.

Also providing a map of the new elven domains
>blue
Tyrions loyalists, allied to the Wood Elves of Athel Loren, hostile to Imriks outcasts and the Remnants of Naggaroth

>black
Remnants of Naggaroth, the Druchii of Malekith who survived the Chaos invasion and remain loyal to Malekith, hostile to Morathis Cult, and Tyrions loyalists, have a defensive agreement with Imriks People

>red
the Elves who followed Imrik to the colonies/ the colonies who didn't recognize Tyrion as the rightful Phoenix King, Imrik is their defacto leader and is called the Dragon Prince of Dawn. The office is only a military function.

Not to forget: There a numerous splinter Factions not yet mentioned, Teclis saved the Tower of Hoeth which now Orbits the Vortex and many parts of Sapphery have taken flight, flying castles, and patches of earth, hundreds of feet in diameter are seen flying all over the world, with farmers and apprentices going about their business on top of them.
Hellebron and her elves have split from Malekith aswell and are doing their own thing
and a few Black Arks are unaccounted for, with many Corsairs and Warlords having decleared independent.

its literally beastmen taking over from humans and enslaving them. Of all the things you could do - like sigmar worship taking root there because their gods were dead - elves reaving in greater numbers- some new despot rising from the ashes and trying to create an empire like those in the old world, you go with the most boring option
>everyone dies or becomes an animal
>each animal is a caste

For fuck's sake at least consult some history and do something cooler like
>gods of ind taking on more beastmen like aspects
>due to the depopulation following war the social structure is upheaved completely with araby/bretonnia trying to expand there.

not him but I think Bretonnia has done more than enough expanding despite losing the vast majority of it's military and leadership.

its more like a trading colony based on what actually happened historically. Early european traders in india were pretty zealous about trying to spread their faith but usually got squatted down. For example the portuguese started off by sending missionaries to the court of emperor Akbar because the guy was interested in learning about different religions and thought he wanted to be converted.

IIRC bretonnia already has a few trading posts in Ind or something. It would be curious if a few dispossessed nobles after the war come with the idea of creating their own petty monarchies in far off lands.

Dammit, Gor, you can't expect one cool poem to carry you forever.

beastmen are jobbers

I would rather not move us all the way into Imperial Age and rather see Mughal India under the rulership of the Beastmen. And each animal isn't necessarily a caste (after all, beastmen are various), but I felt that the caste system would be a good thing to reference. There's no fur-faggotry. I don't know why you keep bringing it up other than you're obsessed with it, yourself.

I really like your ideas so far, but why would Tyrion try to take the Phoenix Throne? (Also, why put High Elves in Tilea/Border Princes?)

the caste system is pretty low brow, and the mughal age is pretty stagnant from a warhammer perspective because it doesn't have a lot of potential for conflict. The mughal state was pretty stable until Aurangzeb went full Allah vult and destroyed it.

Plus an entire nation of beastmen is kinda retreading on the treads of the beastmen faction by a lot. Its just beastmen but with turbans instead of spikes which is really pretty uninspired imo.

A better thing would be to make them like how the bretonnians think the wood elves are like, mysterious and as apt to harm as they are to help. It would be far more unique in the setting and help the faction stand on it's own.

But then, its your setting, so do what you want with it.

The beastmen faction doesn't have a nation. The beastmen are hordes in the forest. This is beastmen living in ruined cities, temples, etc. with a corrupted group of beastmen foolishly aping old, human ways.

And it's not _my_ setting. My input's no more valuable than yours.

(How is the caste system low brow? It was a thing in history -- and today, albeit illegal and bigoted. Lucky we're not making beastmen burn their widows)

I have a more fleshed out version which I'm still working on, gist is: Tyrion insists there is no time for High Elven politics, and Alarielle pushes him to just go for the Crown and be accepted after being proven worthy.

That however doesn't sit well with many of the other High Elves.

Second part: To move part of the High Elves closer to the Old World events, while also giving them interaction with the Wood Elves. A Strong Elven Faction in the former Border Princes also makes a good counterweigth for the Orcs in the South. I'll not lie, that idea is heavily inspired by the Noldor migrations to Lindon after the fall of beleriand, which I think would be a perfect conclusion of the events. Have Elves there who are friendly to the Humans in principle, but still kick ass and defend their new homeland.

It was in part to remove the Victim aspect the High Elves had in Endhammer, where they were broken refugees clinging to a plot deviced Malekith Eternity Kang, now they have their pride and dignity intact, and can treat the Wood Elves as equal neighbours.

>how is the caste system low brow
because historical evidence literally shows that all the major hindu empires were made by non warrior/ruler castes
>guptas who were traders
>mauryas who had questionable parentage
>Palas, Senas who were brahmin
>Rashtrakutas who were just big landowners who broke free.

Plus you had cases of people who would work as farmers in the fields during planting seasons in northern india and act merchants after the crops were harvested.

It was your average feudal system that allowed for some social mobility to and extent and that was it. Codifying it into a part of hinduism was something the british did because it was a nice -quick and easy solution to set up a state.
>these guys have a religious law that no one has ever actually used?
>lol, just use it, what could possibly go wrong?

>This is beastmen living in ruined cities, temples, etc. with a corrupted group of beastmen foolishly aping old, human ways.
alright
What happened to the people?
unless they all died off due to handwavium, they would get together and fight back.

In End Times books, I forget which guy, but I think it was one of the main Khornate champions, landed in Ind and promptly killed the thousand Living Gods who ruled Ind. Along the way, he squished the humans under foot, too, and the beastmen who'd been in the forests came out of the woodwork -- same like they did in the Empire.

(Except Ind lost and the Empire won in Endhammer).

>historical evidence.
Yeah, renaissance Germany didn't have tanks and the French weren't really insanely tied to chivalry to the degree of the Bretonnians. Warhammer is all about exaggerating and playing with stereotypes. Stop getting so butthurt for Hindustan.

stereotyping is fun and all but using actual historical stuff to balance it out is what makes the setting so interesting
Estalia is just your average post reconquista spain sailing to the new world and discovering that the natives are dinosaurs
Tilea is italy and is the cultural avant garde of the old world.
>stop being butthurt
or just use a better historical basis for the faction. Look into the latter day delhi sultanates or post mughal stuff, or even fall of the gupta empire for more inspiration.

The entire thing with ind beastmen was that they were as likely to protect the people there as they were to murder them. If you get rid of that and make them a primal force of nature like in the old world, then they would not be trying to ape humans. They would be destroying everything and spreading chaos all day every day.

Tilea is Italy?

Pavona, where the entire nobility lives in towers with bridges between them so they don't have to smell the lower classes (a parody based on the SINGULAR EXAMPLE of the Medicis of Florence building lifted walkways to get around Florence without mixing with the population -- though you could argue the Pope's secret whore hallway between the Vatican and Castello Sant'Angelo served a similar function).

Spain, where veneration of Mary (alongside Jesus) is common, becoming Estalia which worships a warrior goddess?

As long as you know the history, you can do this all day. You obviously know more about India.

>Ind Beastmen
They "inherit" the world of men that was emptied and slaughtered by... I think it was Arbaal the Undefeated.