Why fantasy shills vikings so much? They were so fucking awful they couldn't win despite crushing numerical advantage

Why fantasy shills vikings so much? They were so fucking awful they couldn't win despite crushing numerical advantage.

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youtube.com/watch?v=pv2qb66PbUg
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geatish_Society
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norse_religion#Sacrifice
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you know what a siege is, right?

>losing when besieging despite numbers

I mean, sturdy walls are really fucking useful, who knew, right?

Fantasy shills vikings because Swedes lack any sort of military prowess of their own from the last 200 years, and they can't deal with their colonial past (Baltics, Finland), so rape and pillage it is - just like today.

That said, I like runes and runic writing.

>I like runes and runic writing.

This, I also like blonde haired blue eyed chicks with fat, pale titties.

>Fantasy shills vikings because Swedes lack any sort of military prowess of their own from the last 200 years
Swedish Empire?

Don't diss Vikings for this defeat.
You grossly underestimate the savagery of average Frenchman when he's left without any option of surrender or escape.

Longer ago

Sweden hasn't even participated in a war for the last 200 jears

I said they can't handle that.
>they can't into thinking that they've been racist towards non-swedes
>they can, however, claim that all of their power was racist and patriarchal
>with vikings, all that goes out of the window since they can pretend to be pre-civilization
>honest approach to what they are and what they were
Swedes have a culture of "don't rock the boat", so they are naturally very, very politically correct. Since the political paradigm has it that they can't possibly be racist towards Finns, Baltics, Poles... They can't have history beyond that. Then there is the fact that it was Christian era, more or less, and therefore evil shitlords were involved and there is no getting proud of them. Remember the 30 year war? Yeah.

>there won't be Reconquista or Inquisition games that have Europeans as the good guys
>everything has to portray Enlightened ideals, including 'the noble savage' - meaning vikings are the only accepted history swedes will ever have

Why is a small band of autists so obsessed with the vikings?

It's a shame a not!Great Northern War could be a really interesting setting

2.5:1 ratio in a siege pretty far from the homeland (and thus any hope of resupply outside of foraging).

Yeah seems bout right to me.

>wow, it only took 20,000 of you to besiege me

Vikings were pretty shit when they weren't attacking undefended villages but they had bags of style.

Jesus, you really have no idea what a siege is. It isn't just running up and having vicious open warfare at the gate. In real life sieges lasted a long time, unless the attackers could somehow breach the walls, either through siege engines (things that, correct me if I'm wrong, the Norsemen sucked at), or sappers. Literally digging their walls down.

So in a siege you may have to literally use shovels to get in. Far from home you would often be talking about issues regarding resupplying on both sides.

So unless you know of some Viking stereotype that they're good at math or at waiting patiently, then seems like your example sucks.

Enough with the rampant axe-viking shitposting already

To add to what he was saying, in most of the Big Books of War, including I think Sun Tzu and Clausewitz, you're supposed to have a 5-1 advantage going into a siege, and 3-1 going into an open field battle. This is a rule that I think is generally accepted in warfare- not that you CAN'T win without that, but you really need at least 5-1 advantage in a siege before you can launch an assault, and it can get pretty rough even if you never launch an assault, due to harassment of the siege forces, disease, and hunger.

ironically, modern swedes gone so retardedly liberal they are likely to be ashamed of their viking past, or something

This. Why do you think fantasy vikings use horned helmets? In fantasy, especially fantasy role playing games, style is more important then realism.

Sure?

Thank you /pol/ for your contribution to the topic.

you're welcome

They were a big deal cuz most of europe's wealth was wrapped up in churches and monasteries that just assumed no-one would attack them cuz basically everyone who mattered was a Christian.

*Jumps into time machine*
*Comes back, looking worse for wear*
So, I just asked everybody across 1000 years of European history, and none of them have heard of Clausewitz or Sun Tzu.
I guess nobody reads the same books you do, user. I'm sure that makes you the smartest person in the room.
Is that enough (You) for you?

... why would you ask Europeans in the last 1000 years if they've read Sun Tzu or Clausewitz?

Clausewitz wrote On War over fifteen years and it was published in 1832.

Sun Tzu is - as the name might sort of suggest - Chinese.

How the fuck do you expect the average European Noble of 1532 to have even heard of either of those?

You invented a time machien for just this purpose, then proceeded to do the most staggeringly stupid thing when you could have been out there fucking assassinating Hitler.

youtube.com/watch?v=pv2qb66PbUg

Are you retarded? He's saying that it's not strange if a siege only 'tilted' 2.5:1 is going to end in a victory for the defenders, and you'd have to not know how sieges work to be surprised

It was a siege that ended with a treaty that gave Rollo and his men large tracts of land in france?

A swamp yeah.

Not that I don't believe you're right, but you must've dug deep to find out the region was a swamp, almost like you were specifically looking for a reason the vikings were bad.
Since ctrl+f'ing the treaty, neustria and normandy gave me no such result.

I see you want to turn it into a military achievement but that's more about frogs being fucking tards than vikangz being good at warfare.

Because giant stonewalled castles where created to prevent the type of warfare the vikings used? Seriously the vikings where still using the inter tribal warfare style that the various Germanic tribes used when Rome was just getting started.

ALSO fantasy shills vikings so much because they are the stereotypical barbarian. It's got nothing to do with how well they did on the field of battle.

>''warfare'
>attacking unarmed people

are modern gangsters warriors as well?

Because of Nazis. Seriously. Before that vikings were considered as cowardly degenerate rapists who showed up to rape priests and kidnap goats after the Romans fell. Later, proto-Nazis decided they needed a more glorious founding myth and latched on to Vikings. They even used "Viking Rape Babies" to justify taking in so called non-Aryans into the SS.

Wow where did the viking touch you user.

That doesn't answer my question.

Actually it was because of 19th century norwegian romanticists (in fact pretty much every dumb fucking misconception can be traced back to 19th century romanticists).

Okay here. Read the OP you fucking dumbass.

No.

>I see you want to turn it into a military achievement
No I don't want that.
Why you see that is beyond me though.

>frogs
>vikangz
lol

Eh the Danelaw, North Sea Empire and achievements of the Normans are nothing to sniff at, but yeah, Vikings were certainly pillagers and rapists... because that's literally what a Viking is, it's a job: a merchant-pirate that raids

Also that one guy from the Battle of Stamford Bridge was pretty cool, but whatever

That guy wasn't even mentioned by Norwegians so he's bullshit.

Vikangz r sht thrds

Fuck. Forgot image.

Are you implying that the enemy made up the story about how a single man kept their entire army held up at a bridge?

Admittedly, the primary source he's found in is the Anglo-Saxon Chronicles, and we know for sure they're not entirely accurate, but he's badass enough that I'm perfectly happy to believe he existed

Yes. Vikings made up Wolf the Qaurrelsome, the supposed brother of Brian Boru so why Saxons wouldn't want to dramatize things as well? How the fuck can someone ''shrug off arrows''? Also a soldier apparently had to float under the bridge in a barrel like in a cartoon and stab him in the balls. That's fucking impossible.

It's not impossible to stab someone in the balls

It's impossible to float in a fucking barrel.

>it's impossible to weigh less than 300 lbs
americans everyone

Is that the one when sweden beat back 3 invaders at once?

Hejhej! Actual swede here and no one is ashamed of vikings here. People only think that being obsessed with them is somewhat embarrassing.

Jesus you're dumb.

>then proceeded to do the most staggeringly stupid thing when you could have been out there fucking assassinating Hitler.

Wait wait wait, wouldn't the smartest thing to do with a Time Machine is stop World War 1, or at the very least stop it from ending with such a crushing defeat for Germany?

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geatish_Society

These guys only lasting heritage is using "hej" as a greeting

>there won't be Reconquista or Inquisition games that have Europeans as the good guys
>History is about good and evil

I actually been thinking about how a strategy game about the Reconquista should play out: Lot's of back stabbing. Flip-flopping through religions to keep whichever rights you prefer and revolting against your allies (Berber revolts against Arabs and the birth of Portugal through stabbing Leon and Castille, for instance) should be encouraged.

Because fantasy, by definition, is not reality.

Plus, some people just like Vikings. Some people like samurai, some people like knights, some people like wizards. Some people like Egyptian or Mesopotamian-esque societies, some people like Asian or Mesoamerican societies, some people like Nordic societies.

Personally, I think the Vikings were cool not for being uber hardcore awesome warrior people, but for how widely-traveled they were (they colonized Iceland, had temporary settlements in Greenland and Canada, settled in Russia and may have even reached into Asia), and how democratic their society was.

Law and legal process was a big deal for the Norse, and their Thing meetings are one of the earliest examples of democracy and parliamentary procedure (and, unlike Greece, any free man could show and speak at a Thing, not just the rich aristocracy). The Icelandic Althing is the oldest European Parliament.

Before Scandinavia Feudalized alongside the rest of Europe, a man could choose which Chieftain or Jarl to support- he didn't owe his liege or lord shit. It was the other way around; if a Chieftain wanted to keep his supporters he'd have to treat them well, represent them and their issues at Things, and be generous in his gifts and payments to them.

Plus, there's all sorts of other neat little tidbits, about how Norse women were well protected by law, could divorce their husbands if they were mistreated, and pretty much dominated the household.

>t. an American with no formal education in history beyond high school and community college, and an admitted fetish for anything Viking Age

>t. an American

explains a lot

I'm answering the OP, dude.

If you don't think Vikings are cool that's all good, I was just saying why I thought they were. No need to be a dick.

I wonder when the meme-wheel of contrarianism is going to turn on the vikings.
First it was "vikings were cool and the greatest warriors ever".
Then that opinion became too popular, so now the only way to be a top lad is to spout the complete opposite "vikings were snowniggers and the worst warriors ever".
Eventually this will become the norm, and then it will be in fashion to like vikings again.

As an european who study Norse culture I can say that pretty much all of this is true

I'll also add that I thought it neat how all free men were encouraged to own weapons for personal and home defense.

I think it's obvious why I find that interesting.

are you literally retarded?

>This, I also like blonde haired blue eyed chicks with fat, pale titties.

Seconded.

OP confirmed for bitter Britbong

Was there ever another kind of Britbong?

With Vikings and Mongols both you get people using women's rights to justify rape a murder. Sure, they enslaved and ruined countless womens' lives, but if you were a wealthy woman of the right bloodline you could get a divorce if you wanted. So progressive!

...

Pretty much all viking women had protection of the law, their clans treated it very seriously.
Non-viking women had no such equality, but then, non-viking men had no rights either.

Vikings and Mongols were no worse at raiding, pillaging, raping their neighbors than anyone else. They were just more successful at it.

Any group in history, especially medieval or earlier, is going to be raping, sacking, pillaging their neighbors whenever they get the chance.

besides, I wasn't saying 'Oh, how progressive and wonderful! Vikings can do no wrong!' I was just saying I thought it was interesting because it *certainly* wasn't the norm for other European societies at the time.

Bad enough you shit up Veeky Forums with these threads, but now you have to shitpost Veeky Forums with this meme?

You watch too many Tom and Jerry cartoons retard I doubt soldier in full combat gear would float in a barrel to kill a warrior his own people didn't mention and who supposedly was resistant to arrows (in a battle where vikings were reported to not use any armor since they left it in their ships at that)

The best thing to do is assassinate some Prussians so Germany never happens
Bitter and also racist.

In a way, yes.they have leaders, soldiers, territory, logistical considerations. Gang warfare isn't just a buzzword.

>wanting France to dominate Europe

Personally I'm a fan of the reform Austria in to a federation plan to stop ww 2. That way their leaders won't think bullying Serbia is a good way to distract their people's from their desire for better democratic representation.

They weren't soldiers, they were more like gangsters.

Well, vikings were basically the ISIS of the Dark Ages, user. What with human sacrifice, rape and shit.

>arabs raided
>wtf savages!
>vikings raided
>fierce warriors

lmao scandicucks

If you count attacking Swedish occupied Germany as invasion I guess, although their victory was pretty short lived and Sweden ended up losing everything but Finland in the end.

Again are there any other britbong?

>vikings were basically the ISIS of the Dark Ages
The Vikings sure loved destroying old pre-norse monuments and behead whole villages for not following the laws of their sky faries.

No one gives a fuck about Arab raids. Most of them are just labled as pirates.

Everyone was like gangster back then, and now.

>human sacrifice
>vikings

desu the viking reputation is primarily due to the Varangian Guard kicking literally everyone's ass for like 500 years

but the other vikings weren't bad at the whole murder, rape, steal job either

even if sometimes they were like 'nah senpai desu we just murdered an entire village of slavs up the river so maybe we'll just trade shitty beads in exchange for your gold'

It would be better to have it be a more crushing defeat for Germany than a less crushing one, "we were fighting well but the people who made up what would become the Weimar Government stabbed us in the back at Versailles" is far harder to sell to a public that had seen Entente troops storming Berlin rather than still being in France when the white flag was raised. Taking out the Jews who organised the January strikes might be a good idea if your aim was to avoid muh 6 million as well.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norse_religion#Sacrifice

Wow they were good at killing farmers aka unarmed people how impressive.

After 11th century varangian guard was Saxon also
>first members were the Rus

wow slavs who barely had any norsemen by the time varangian guard was a thing how fucking viking like unless you consider Vladimir to be a norse name

You mean viking rape babies?

The ones with the Norse queen?

ok

>Saxons had different culture
>muh vikangz xD

no, kill yourself also memengian guard got decked by turkroaches and the glorious byzantine empire had a history of being stomped time and time again so these shits would call a 5yo with wooden sword a fierce warrior

>You mean viking rape babies?
Vikings left very little impact on eastern Europe, DNA wise. If they were doing any rapine, it was to men.

The Varangian Guard spent 500 years of being a small contingent of largely footslogging bodyguards in an army that either routed the enemy army with a heavy cavalry charge or lost the battle, they were hired because they didn't play Byzantine politics and so the Emperors trusted them no to stab them in the back not because they kicked 'literally everyone's ass'.

*unsheathes katana*
*teleports behind you*

Worse, druids come from Vikings culture and they are actually decent in D&D.

Is this trolling, or just extreme ignorance?

>druids
>viking

kill yourself

Someone's culture got assraped.

Are you literally retarded?

Saint Olga, aka Helga, was literally from what is now Sweden. aka person who basically created modern Slavs. She even trained them wrong as a joke!

Why vikingboos never present any evidence nor arguments and resort to name calling and acting like a mentally ill person? If they are such great warriors surely you can list their feats?

They were literally just bandits who fucking AVOIDED combat if they could deal with it kids.

I see the wrong training lingers. Does Yandex not know how to find Wikipedia?

haha, oh wow