Okay, so what's honestly the difference between a Paladin and a Cleric?

Way back when Clerics were inspired by religious priests who fought in battle, or more specifically the mythos that surrounded them.

As such they wore armor, fought with maces [as they were supposedly, but not actually, forbidden from spilling blood], and performed miracles based largely on the Christian faith. They were a hybrid class, half-way between the other two classes of the game at that time, Magic User and Fighting Man.

The Paladin was introduced as an ideal chivalric knight, based on the Twelve Peers or Sir Galahad, who had no need that he be especially religious, only that he be of lawful and good alignment. He possessed minor miraculous abilities, but was mostly a knight, not a spellcaster.

Unfortunately, eventually both concepts started to get eroded. The Cleric became generalized to numerous mythologies, instead of simply Law and Chaos, and the Paladin went from a chivalrous knight to a holy knight.

Effectively, the lines between the two classes have become blurred. By this point the logical decision would be to get rid of one or both classes and make them the same thing, but they're both such sacred cows by now thats never going to happen.

Why would you want police dispatch to be the same type of people who are beat cops?

Not really related to the paladin vs. cleric as the cleric isn't really a police type at all.

The guy who uses the radio in the same car, I meant to say, not dispatch.

This is all I'm saying here. As it stands right now, they're essentially the same thing.

The Paladin was for a Cause and a Cleric was for God and that influenced their roleplay and alignments and abilities.

But now they're just the same thing. Is there any good reason why it has to be this way? That's all I'm asking here

1d4chan.org/wiki/Powder_Keg_of_Justice

This is why we have paladins.

Mechanical differentiation.

No, the only reason both classes still exist is because there ARE minor thematic differences and mechanical differences between them, and people like their sacred cows.

But one can make a justifiable argument that they have significant crossover and should therefore be combined.

Ah,

well, the cleric isn't a cop, but he has a stick to beat people with (everyone has a stick to beat people with in D&D, even the guy who wields knowledge gains from systematic study.

If you had to put a cleric into emergency services, he would be a paramedic with some skill with words.

And a night stick, because everyone gets a night stick on fantasy cop island.

The difference is that between a beat cop and a SWAT officer. Both have training to protect their community, but one is more specialized in smiting evil and the other is to spread their religion.

Paladins are holy warriors, first and foremost, selected by their god to be their avatars. They are almost always destined for greatness in one form or another, and their mission is to bring the power of their god against it's enemies.

A cleric is a person who willingly devotes themselves to a god, and practice and oversee the religion. Their nature is far more varied, because it has to do with how they worship and what their tenants are. Some might certainly be warriors, especially as for a god of battle, but certainly not all of them are. Some are clerks, some are scholars, some are merchants, so on and so forth.

The mixing comes from the fact that they're following the same god, and so value the same qualities.

But a Paladin is a warrior, first and foremost, and was chosen by their god, while anyone can elect to become a cleric.

Take a god of knowledge. Clerics of the god would be a large majority scholars, reading dusty tomes, collecting knowledge, so on and so forth. A few might be capable in combat, but a large majority would not.

A Paladin of the same god might value knowledge just as much and would certainly reflect that, but they are still at the end of the day a warrior. Their job might be to defend clerics as they seek lost knowledge or to seek out that knowledge themselves, but their missions are going to involve bringing the fight to someone in some fashion, because they are warriors.

Clerics are empowered by spiritual forces, be that god or "cosmic law." A cleric's power doesn't come from within, and is generally bestowed upon them to serve some greater-than-mortal purpose.

Paladins are empowered by themselves. Their adherence to their ideals is the source of their power. A paladin takes up the mantle of power, explicitly for purposes of their own choosing in service of those ideals.

>A few might be capable in combat, but a large majority would not
Not him, but I've never seen an unarmed cleric in my life, much less one who wasn't good at combat.

A Paladin is the paragon of mortals, whom strive to emulate a deity and ideal. Their Conviction/ Strength of Personality is the source of their power.

A cleric is a pawn of a god/deity/aspect/domain, whom have given up their own potential, and channel the will of their patron,

If we're talking about D&D, that's generally because the only clerics that get featured are the ones who are willing to fight. But for every cleric that is willing to wander the world, fighting monsters, there's 10 living in towns, cities, and villages who've likely barely even held a weapon, much less ever fought something.

You're confusing a lower case priest with a capital Cleric.

They are different kinds of followers. The Priest/Inquisitor comparison is accurate.

A cleric is a follower that actually studies his religion and his god's word. Their lives are dedicated to spreading of the word of god and studying his deity's desires and plans. He recieves self-defense combat training, reflected in his proficiencies with heavy armor and shields while not using war-focused weapons. He recieves his powers directly from god, as a gift to help him prove his god's greatness and to help him spread the word. Based on core 3.5, his first actual combat buff comes online at magic level 4, and it's a 1 round/level buff for special ocasions.

A paladin, in the other hand, is way less literate in his own religion. He's a soldier that fights directly against the enemies of his association. He knows what's right and how to deal with wrongdoers, rivals and heretics. He's the armed assault soldier that solves problems with brute force, and recieves powers at a much lower rate, mostly to aid his crusade in direct combat. That's also why they start out without magic. A cleric recieves spells to act in many ways, but a paladin must prove himself capable of supporting his cause in battle to even be worthy of divine intervention.

>Jesus
Pelor wants to have a word with you about that whole renaming thing. It gets old after every other religion have already done it.

Heavy and light armour sets.
Clerics are focused on spellcasting.
Paladins are combat based, but can cast some healing spells.
Autist.

Drop the clerics fighter abilities and refocus him to be a holy caster and leve the frontline to the paladin.

There problem fixed.

>gets stuck on two very minor details
>cannot fathom the bigger picture
>speaks in a mechanical way
Who's the autist?

Clerics serve a God, or less commonly an ideal.

Paladins serve an ideal, or less commonly a God.

In my ocdonutsteel setting, Paladins are the equivilant of fighters with divine powers, clerics wre thr equivilant of rangers with divine powers, priests are the equivilant of wizards with divine powers, and inquisitors are rogues with divine powers. Archetype + power source

Paladins are chivalrous knights, kinda like those of Arthurian myths or Roland. Clerics are knight templars.

A cleric is the one who actively spreads the faith in his or her community. They may set up organized religious events that perhaps act as a fundraiser to raise money for an orphanage or some cause related to their faith. Such an example may set a starting impression for new recruits who actively are unsure about joining a faith or not. Older clerics train newer and younger acolytes in faith and magic, scripture, and memorizing historical events of the past. They organize marriages and lead sermons, act as advisors to military commanders and medical staff as well.

Paladins are often loners by nature. They seek to endanger themselves by finding and rooting out, actively pursuing evil and crushing it. Even the more homely paladins act as high guard or reservists, waiting for much larger threats than the average bandit horde or random goblin troupe. Perhaps a Paladin might also take a little bit of the law into his own hands and to pass the time he or she takes up the mantle of a police officer, keeping the streets and back alleys safe at night, apprehending and arresting crooks who do wrongs under the cover of night. Paladins don't actively oppose anything oppositional to their faith, though they are not completely inclined to help it. Generally a paladin is an embodiment of a faith or god's own personal will and conviction, and acts as a mortal representative of such. Whether a crusader, defender, or holy bodyguard, Paladins are the ones that hold the line on the front lines, wherever and whatever said frontline is.

The cleric is an actual religious official. He preaches to his congregation, conducts ceremonies, signs marriage certificates, baptises children, etc. He's a priest, rabbi, houngan, vicar or whatever.

The paladin is a warrior-monk, like a knight hospitalier. He's a deeply religious person who has been initiated into an order of holy warriors but he isn't a clergyman. He has no congregation and if he is attached to a temple (church, shrine, circle of sacred stones, whatever) he doesn't control it.

Paladins are the blue-collar workers, clerics are management.

Short and to the point. You put it well. I apologize if I gave a TL;DR version.

>completely ignoring war priests and war domain clerics
ishygddt

>do we really need both?
Well you said it yourself user: one is a pickpocket and the other os a robber.
While they may be very similar in effect, they are very different in scope and application.

Now if you translate that to the original question (in relation to yout typical dnd setting):
Clerics (or priests) are there to guide and protect the flock of the faithful and, when the opportunity arises, convert new followers or reclaim apostates.
They are generalists and the backbone of the faith.
Paladins on the other hand are the champions of the gods, the shining beacon of all that is good, representing the quintessence of how you should live your life. It is their duty to seek out and neutralize specific threats to the faith and the faithful, or in some rare cases fulfill some special divine mission.
The paladin is the pointed tip that pierces the enemies of the faith.

At least that's how i always interpreted it

>And I don't wanna hear "one is a spellcaster who can fight and the other is a fighter that can cast spells"
A paladin is a guy with a sword, he is really really good with a sword. He gets some magic on the side for being a good dude.
A cleric is a person who practices white magic full time. They train in some weapons on the side so they aren't complete trash in a fight.

That's it. That's the only actual difference. It's the same difference between a wizard and a fighter archetype that has some wizard spells. Everything else depends on the setting.

>While Paladin is a selected champion of the god.
This.

>Right, but why can't they just be the same thing?
Different training.

Main difference is that one can use blades and other not.

10/10

Thanks to most people who play RPGs forgetting, your thread is necessary, OP.
Clerics are despite current popular opinion on Veeky Forums based on the crusading knight orders (particularly Templar and Hospitalier) and medieval European priests.
Paladins on the other hand, are based on (and the name is a clue here) the Paladins who were peers/courtly knights of Charlemagne whose captain was Count Palantine.

Paladins are knights first and foremost. They are in fact the ideal that all knights are supposed to hold themselves to. Every paladin is all of these things: pious, strong, chivalrous, the peak of physical health, self confident, and good. If a paladin ceases to be one of these things, he is not a paladin any more. Moral decisions are to be made by the paladin's own volition, rather than conferring with a god because they don't have that ability. They don't get their divine power from a god that power is their own.

I've often come across paladin threads where fa/tg/uys post character concepts and stories from games with paladins without a single paladin in them, instead the paladins there are either clerics or warlocks.

I wholeheartedly support this user. In fact, if you look closely at the fluff in 5e (which is what OP specified), paladins aren't neccesary about gods but they're always about the oath. Some sort of ideal, some sort of self-imposed quest that drives them forward.

>Are you a devoted servant of good, loyal to the gods of justice and honor, a holy knight in shining armor venturing forth to smite evil? Are you a glorious champion of the light, cherishing everything beautiful that stands against the shadow, a knight whose oath descends from traditions older than many of the gods? Or are you an embittered loner sworn to take vengeance on those who have done great evil, sent as an angel of death by the gods or driven by your need for revenge?

>a knight whose oath descends from traditions OLDER than many of the gods?
>sent as an angel of death by the gods OR driven by your need for revenge?

Empasis mine. And if you take a look at the oaths themselves, they also mention gods as an option.

>The Oath of Devotion binds a paladin to the loftiest ideaIs of justice, virtue, and arder.
>Many who swear this oath are devoted to gods of law and good and use their gods' tenets as the measure of their devotion.

>MANY but not all

>what's the difference between a knight and a priest?
>I mean, seriously they are found in stone buildings and have hierarchies within their orders.
>And don't tell me that there are any major distinctions, everyone knows that major distinctions mean nothing to worldbuilding - just like different gangs of the same race have no real distinction.

The difference between a paladin and a priest is the difference between a fighter and a barbarian. Sometimes mechanical differences aren't arbitrary.

Clerics are the envoy of god's word. They exist to spread it, and show the immaculate nature of divine providence. They aren't heavily armored because they don't really want to fight in the first place, they generally wield subpar equipment because their faith is how they spread their message, and ideologically they don't need anything else.

A paladin on the other hand is the embodiment of god's will. They exist to smite heretics and enforce god's divine commands. They wear heavy armor and use fuckhuge smashing weapons because they need to be the physical personification of god's wrath to the impure, and an angel to those who share the same views. While the clerics tend to excel due to soft skills, paladins excel due to physical prowess.

Think about it this way, a cleric is like a magical faith bard, and a paladin is like a magical faith martial.

ITT OP being a autist of epic proportions.

/thread

found the dnd guy

A cleric is a priest who fights for his God. They preform miracles, spread the word of their God. More war-like clerics can be compared to the Inquisition, Simon the Zealot, or Roland.

A paladin is a chivalrous knight, not so much a holy man, but devoted to his lord, his lady, and his friends. A paladin is skilled in defense and support, as is befitting a knight, and their smiting is referencing the times when Arthur's knights called upon the Lord to accomplish incredible tasks or defeat a mortal enemy. They can be compared to Sir Lancelot, Sir Percival, Sir Yvain, or Saint George.

Two completely different ideas which over the years, blended into one "Holy Warrior."
It's like the difference between a fighter and barbarian.

Seeing as the guy said in one of the original posts "in D&D 5e specifically", yeah, obviously.
You're retarded and illiterate.

>I'm talking about mainstream Dungeons and Dragons 5e for the sake of argument.

paladins derive their power from an oath to fight evil, clerics derive their power from gods or some religion.