MTG Magic The Gathering Ask A Judge - Tuesday Bluesday Edition

Opponent has an upkeep trigger (If you have X do Y) on a creature. If I put an instant on the stack (lightning bolt) to kill the creature, does the creature's upkeep ability resolve if he still has X?

What happens if you restart a multiplayer game with Karn after someone has lost? My card shop has a commander tournament on Sundays that gives 'points' for knocking players out instead of just like who wins, so part of me wants to see if I can farm the newbies by dragging there asses back here.

You're going to be more specific. Usually triggers go on the stack and resolve independently from their sources.

*You've got

Dragon master outcast puts its trigger on the stack and then I put a electrickery on the stack. Do they still get a 5/5 dragon?

Well, it'd really help if you had a specific example.

Abilities on the stack exist independent of their sources. Blowing up, say, a Dark Confidant in response to the trigger isn't going to stop the trigger. There is a SLIGHT way around that: Intervening-if clauses.

Some triggers are worded as "WHEN/WHENEVER/AT [TRIGGER EVENT], if [CONDITION], [EFFECT]." There's a clause in the middle saying 'if this thing is true'; that clause is checked when the trigger goes to be put on the stack, and again as it goes to resolve. If it's not true both times, the trigger doesn't fire. An example would be Hanweir Militia Captain. If they have the Captain and exactly 3 other creatures, you can dome one of their creatures to force that transform trigger to whiff, because the condition won't be true as it goes to resolve.

Once a player hits a 'loss' condition in a multiplayer game, whether that be in the form of SBAs (0 life, milled out, Commander damage, etc) or just a flat "YOU LOSE" from the Nowhere Cannon, they are entirely removed from the game. They no longer exist within it. If you reset the game, it'll only reset it for the players currently inside the game (because it would suck if you had to sit and wait for the WHOLE game to finish, in case someone resets it)

Yes, because the trigger condition is "if you control 6 or more lands", not "if you control 6 or more lands and Dragonmaster Outcast". Once it's on the stack, it exists independent of the source, and the intervening-if clause is only checking to see if you have 6 or more lands.

If I put a Cheatyface on the board when my opponent looked away at a GP, as a joke. What would happen if the opponent turned out to be a dick?

At level best, I see you getting a stern lecture about "Yeah that's funny and all, but this is not the setting for that". I would not advise it.

Explain to me how Scroll Rack and Land Tax interact. Is there a best way to use them in conjunction?

What's the worst-case scenario?

>get three basic lands
>use scroll rack to put them on top of your library in exchange for 3 extra cards
Not sure what you aren't getting here.

Ah, fair enough.

I mean, possibly a DQ? It'd kinda have to ramp up to that, mostly with you being belligerent or causing issues. Just don't do it.

I have a slight, barely visible chip on the back of an expensive card at the corner of the letter "I". Is it still possible to play with a transparent sleeve?

It seems like if you were nice about it, the judge and everyone around would take your side, what's the real danger? Not the user who asked, I'm honestly just confused about how it could become a real issue.

Not really. I wouldn't risk it.

new to magic. Explain tapping basics.

> what's the real danger?
Wasting people's time for a bad joke? Like, the best possible scenario here is that your opponent laughs a bit and you move on- cool. NBD. That's probably the most LIKELY thing, but it's also entirely possible that your opponent gets frustrated by your antics, or suspects that you might actually be using the Cheatyface as a diversion to ACTUALLY cheat, etc...

Yeah, it's a goofy joke. It's something I would laugh about with you if you were doing it at a casual Commander pod during a GP, and maybe even at a Regular REL event like a prerelease or an FNM. But at a GP, it's just a dumb joke at best, and an active waste of people's time at worst. Not worth it.

Personally I never recommend transparent sleeves unless you're putting every card directly into them as soon as they're opened. Even little bits of wear can get more visible than you'd think, and you might start to recognize the wear patterns. Play it safe.

Sure- most spells cost mana to cast. To get mana, you mostly use lands. There are five basic land subtypes: Plains, Island, Swamp, Mountain, and Forest. Any card that has one of those subtypes has the inherent ability to tap for the appropriate color of mana ( W U B R G, respectively). There's a fifth kind of basic called Wastes; they don't have a subtype, but can tap for Colorless mana because they have that ability.

Did you have a more specific question I could help with? The one you posed is pretty broad!

>Have Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
>Have Serra Avatar
>Serra Avatar dies
>????

Does Serra Avatar get shuffled into deck or does undying put it back into the field?

Depends on how you stack your triggers, whichever you put in the stack last resolves first. Basically you can choose which effect to activate.

Either one, depending on which you want! Undying and Serra's "Shuffle me back" trigger both fire from it dying. They're also both your triggers, so you choose the order they go on the stack; whichever goes on the stack LAST resolves FIRST. So you can either get it to come back with a +1/+1 counter, or shuffle it into your library; whichever one happens, it'll make the other trigger do nothing.

what if it's serra avatar and my opponents grave betrayal?

Depends on whose turn it is. In the previous scenario, you got to stack the triggers because both were yours; in THIS scenario, the Active Player puts their triggers on the stack, and then the NAP does the same, so NAP's trigger always resolves first.

If Avatar dies on your turn, your opponent will get it back because their trigger resolves first. If it dies on THEIR turn, your trigger resolves first and shuffles it away safely.

Thank you. One last question in this vein: what if it's my opponent's kalitas and my own samurai of the pale curtain and my runeclaw bear gets murdered on my turn. Does my opponent get a zombie? also if it matters what would happen if it was my opponent's turn?

With that, you have two competing replacement effects that both want to replace the same event with something else. In this case it doesn't matter whose turn it is; as the owner/controller of the affected object (the Runeclaw Bear that's dying), YOU get to select which replacement effect to apply first. If you apply Samurai's effect, then Kalitas' effect can't apply because there's no relevant event to replace, and your opponent gets no zombie. It's also legal for you to feed the Bear to Kalitas to give your opponent a Zombie, if you so chose.

thanks man it always pays off to visit these threads

Will Umezawa's Jitte ever find its way off the banned list & why was this card banned in the first place?

It's too OP

Probably not, and the lack of the words "to a player".

BEDTIME

could i cast fling after the combat damage step to effectively double that damage?

As long as the creature is not dead by combat damage, yes.

Can I include this card in a mono-white EDH/Commander deck?

yes you can

Even with the white/black extort ability cost? Neat. My buddy always said you can't do that, like with pic related

The difference is
Cranial Plating have BB as an ability payment, it's color identity is B.
Extort cards have Extort, reminder text is not a color identity.

bump

Assuming the creature lives through combat.

Yes. Reminder text has no rules meaning.

With Plating, the black mana symbols are present in the actual rules text, giving it a Black color identity. With Extort, the hybrid symbol doesn't actually exist inside the card's rules text.

If my opponent casts Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger and I cast Desertion in response, its cast trigger would resolve after Desertion, correct?

If that is the case, am I allowed to let the cast trigger resolve, then cast Desertion?

Correct; assuming you don't say otherwise, you'd be using Desertion with the on-cast trigger still on the stack. That said, by the time you can cast Desertion they've already chosen targets. And yes, you can let their trigger resolve and then cast Desertion.

I feel like you've answered this before, but I forgot your response (if any) so I'll just ask again; rancor + twisted image on a 1/1 basically just means the affected creature gets +2/+2 that turn, right?

Thanks in advance.

+0/+2, actually. Rancor applies in layer 7c, and Twisted Image applies after that, in 7e. You start by giving the creature +2/+0, making it a 3/1, and then you swap the P/T, making it a 1/3.

What's the most bullshit combo you've seen someone pull off in a tournament?

I personally like seeing my friend playing Oops all spells.

I guess that would depend on your definition of 'bullshit'.

gA, when did you get back? It's good to see you.

Hey gA, cheers for always helping. I got into mtg about a month ago with my gf. We played a game last night and I had a question

She ressed Vexing Scuttler from her gy with Rise from the Grave (ressed straight to battlefield). The scuttler lets her pull a sorcery/instant from her gy, but can she pull out the rftg she just cast, or has is it technically not discarded yet because it's still casting the scuttler?

Thanks!!

I technically never really left, I just made the threads a little less often because real life made it difficult to find the time.

Vexing Scuttler triggers when you cast it.

She did not cast it, she put it directly onto the battlefield with Rise from the Grave, so it never triggered at all.

Now, let's say she hit an Archaeomancer instead, since that triggers on ETB. That trigger needs a target the second it goes on the stack... but it doesn't go on the stack until Rise is done resolving. By the time the trigger needs a target, Rise has fully resolved and is in the gravyeard. It's not 'discarded' because that word means something very specific.

oh fuck, thats a game changer. We're still getting our heads around the specific wordings of the rules, I guess

Can you explain casting more clearly to me? Casting applies only from your hand to the stack or something?

What you said about archaeomancer makes sense, though. thanks man

To cast a spell is to move it from some zone that is NOT the stack (typically the hand, but sometimes the graveyard or library, and rarely exile), ONTO the stack, and go through various steps such that it becomes a cast spell waiting on the stack to resolve. It's not common for the effect of a spell or ability to have you cast something during it, but it'll be very explicit about it (for example, Epic Experiment clearly tells you to cast the spells it finds). If a spell like Rise from the Grave is just putting something directly onto the battlefield, it's not being cast, because it's not even touching the stack. The Eldrazi have on-cast triggers rather than on-enter triggers because of thematic-ness (all three of the original Eldrazi titans had on-cast triggers, for example) and to help make reanimation magic 'worse', for lack of a better term.

Ok, that makes more sense. Thanks again. I suppose understanding and visualising the stack is one of the harder parts of the game for beginners, along with wording specifics like you mentioned. But it's been tons of fun so far

I'll let her know she's a cheating scumbag

Hey, cheating requires intent!

Are you the one from the Modern thread that stated that Rancor combos with Twisted Image to give +2/+2, and when someone told you that didn't work, you told them to go read the rules?

I play Gravedigger with a bunch of creatures in my graveyard. Do i have to pick a target even if i don't want to use his ability?

It's a may ability, so you don't have to.

Would the creature tokens created by Blade of Selves fully activate Melee?

Yes. You select a target whether or not you're going to use the ability; the "may" part just says you can decide whether or not to bring that target back as it resolves.

Not quite.

Trigger, not activate. And no! The tokens were never actually declared as attackers, so they didn't 'attack' anyone. They won't turn Melee on.

No, they never attacked, they enter the battlefield already attacking.

>Not quite.
learned something new everyday.

Yep!

603.5. Some triggered abilities' effects are optional (they contain "may," as in "At the beginning of your upkeep, you may draw a card"). These abilities go on the stack when they trigger, regardless of whether their controller intends to exercise the ability's option or not. The choice is made when the ability resolves. Likewise, triggered abilities that have an effect "unless" something is true or a player chooses to do something will go on the stack normally; the "unless" part of the ability is dealt with when the ability resolves.

What if i have no creatures in my graveyard, and so no legal targets for the ability. Would it still go on the stack and get coutered before resolution like targeted spells do?

The ability triggers, goes onto the stack, and wants a target. Since there are no legal choices for you to make as far as targets go, the ability is simply removed from the stack. That's only if there's no targets to START with- if you pick a target and then your opponent makes it illegal (feeding it to a Scavenging Ooze, for example), the trigger isn't just instantly removed from the stack. It'll sit there, waiting to resolve, and then be countered by the rules of the game for having no legal target as it tries to resolve.

Generally when we play casually we let people take back shit like a spell they play and reap their lands.

However in a more competitive scene when is it "too late" to take back a spell, ability, or land tap. Assuming that they are all legal and have legal targets.

For example in a competitive scene, Bob cast terminate targeting Jims grizzly bear. In repose Jim cast mending touch targeting the grizzly bears, announcing the spell and tapping lands, only to realize it won't be regenerated and he wants to take it back. What happens and how do you solve?

"Haha that sucks man"

There's a bit of fudging room, but pretty much as soon as you've announced the spell that you can legally cast, I'm not letting you take it back because you realized it's a misplay. Go "In response, I'm going to cast Mending... hang on, that won't actually save it. Nevermind, resolves"? Probably won't have a problem with that, and neither will your opponent. "Response, Mending Touch." Beat. "Oh shit, can't be regenerated-" Yeah no, you done goofed.

Basically you don't get to "Take back" legal actions just because they're stupid.

Damn, that's a bummer. That's the only reason I picked her from the draft. Oh well.

Lands follow suit too correct?

Announces spell or ability, put on stack and pay it's cost. Seems like there is even more room to fudge around here

What, like someone playing the wrong land? That's pretty much a judgement call- if it's a simple dexterity error that they catch quickly, and I don't think they're trying to bait their opponent for information or a response, I'll just wave it away and ask them to be more careful.

If you mean something like tapping wrong (like they tap a Sacred Foundry instead of a Plains to cast a Path, and realize they need to leave up the red mana for a Bolt)... kinda the same thing. If I honestly think it was a brain fart and they catch the error quickly (like, as part of actually casting it quickly), I'll not really pay it much mind. But if I think enough time has passed that they just made a misplay, realized it, and are wanting to backtrack... nah.

A lot of this stuff is "had to be there" judgement calls, unfortunately.

What happens when a player tries to get a creature from Oath of Druids while Containment Priest and Grafdigger's Cage are on the battlefield?

It can't even attempt to enter the battlefield, so Preist's replacement effect doesn't apply. The creature just stays put.

It's perfectly legal for them to reveal cards from their library until they hit a creature card, at which point they stop. What happens next depends on the setup of the board- if you're asking what happens with BOTH those on the field, they won't be able to even begin to put the creature on the field, so Priest's replacement effect can't apply to it. They'll put the other revealed cards in their graveyard, and the revealed creature will be the new top card of their library. Ditto if it's JUST Cage.

If it's JUST priest, they'll wheel til they hit a creature, exile it, then put the other cards in their graveyard. Assuming they elect to use the Oath, that is- they can just NOT use the trigger.

I think I know the ruling for this, but I wanted to double check
So I have a divinity of pride and 23 life. My opponent swings at me with a 3/3 double strike and I block. What happens? This came up in cube the other day

Your Divinity is dealt 3 damage. It is now a 4/4 with 3 damage marked on it.

Then, it takes another 3 damage, deals 4 back, and gains you 4 life simultaneously. You go up to 27 life, and it immediately gets swole to the tune of +4/+4. By the time SBAs are checked post-damage, it is an 8/8 with 6 damage marked on it, which means it is not dead.

Can you provide more technical details for the case of both on the battlefield? I'm trying to find the exact rules for this situation. It showed up in the VSL finals. The creature card was exiled, which seemed wrong to me.
youtu.be/sCshscVhHZg?t=41m28s

Yeah, my guess is that they were treating Cage as a replacement effect, in which case it's possible to apply the Priest's effect first and exile the card.

That said... well, that's not what happens. Grafdigger's Cage doesn't have a replacement effect that replaces "put onto field" with "not put onto field", it just creates a new 'rule', basically. It says "That can't happen." It's like the interaction between Omen Machine and draw replacements; you can't even START to draw a card, so there's no draw event for the replacement effect to replace.

That's what I thought, but it seemed almost too weird to be true. Thanks!
SBA are counterintuitive sometimes

Also worth noting, MTGO is buggy as shit. For a while Containment Priest would exile ITSELF if you cheated it out with something like Vial, and shortly after they 'fixed' that, it didn't work at all.

Just remember that SBAs are checked right before anyone gets priority EVERY time someone gets priority... and never at any other time.

Can we get even stranger with it? What if the 3/3 double strike has trample. Does it matter if my life is 21, 23 or 24 does it change what happens?

>23 life
Your dude takes 3. Then, your opponent assigns 1 damage to it, and can assign 2 more to trample over to you, since it's a 4/4 with 3 damage already marked on it. You'll take 2 damage and gain 4 life, putting you at 25, with an end result of "your guy is not dead".

If you were at 22 or lower, you'd end up at 24 (or lower!) from the 'net' gain of 2 life, which would keep your Divinity offline and kill it.

DRIVING HOME.

Thanks again. Don't text and drive! ;P

what happens if i swerve a remand, and chose swerve as the new target?

mb thumbnail

Swerve would resolve, changing the target of Remand to Swerve. Then, it would go to the graveyard because it's done resolving.

Then Remand would go to resolve and fizzle because it has no legal target.

hahahaha allright cool
thanks babe

>copy a 10/10 creature
>it is now an artifact
can i copy the copy I just made? making 2 creatures?

no

learn to fucking play man

No. You select all your targets at once, when casting the spell, and you don't have the artifact token copy yet at that time.

dont be an asshole faggot

dear judge goy,

n00b user here. i have a fuckton of MtG cards, but a) haven't ever played b) don't really know the rules.
can you give me the basics?
From,
N00b user

Well, "the basics" is something that's best done with another actual PLAYER, rather than me just giving you a block of text. That said, you might try the Magic Duels game on Steam (it's free, and teaches you the basics quite well), or give the Basic Rulebook a read