40k general

Playing CSM Stage 2: Anger edition

>Rules databases
mega.nz/#F!BxI1HSgI!0tKymKh9RZTzGpgIA5EyCg

>FAQ’s and Errata (outdated but official)
games-workshop.com/en-GB/Rules-Errata

>40k 7th edition quick reference sheet(s).
dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4104995/Games/7edRef.pdf

>Forgeworld Book index
dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Forge_World_and_Apocalypse_Rules_Index

> The Black Library
mega.nz/#F!wx4BiKhD!YhnAf1BqSmAB8dO6xDM56Q!c4pGAJDb

Other urls found in this thread:

z13.invisionfree.com/The_First_Expedition/index.php?s=b033024203c4241f2228c7c452db80ed&showtopic=1947&view=getnewpost
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

Kill Team hype

So we know about men of stone and gold now
z13.invisionfree.com/The_First_Expedition/index.php?s=b033024203c4241f2228c7c452db80ed&showtopic=1947&view=getnewpost

Is the Deathwatch shit worth it?

Aren't rules a clusterfuck with no gear restrictions on a squad?

>Not just enjoying the models

Hating on Codex: Sternguard.

>No restrictions
They can take 4 heavy weapons, and anyone can take a super expensive kickass hammer. The vets are pretty much psuedo-devastators. Expensive tho

They seem to play like real space marines to me, being that expensive and tough.

Should I just get the shit from ebay and save all the boxes ?

GIB DRAIDUR'S HAYD :-DDDDDD

Has anyone played this? What are your thoughts on it?

Can we get a formation that lets terminators charge out of deep strike already?
Since GW has decided to make spent their time just making more and more elaborate formations with better and better bonuses, I want to be included on the gravy train.

>if only you knew how bad things are
Because Space Marines really need more buffs.

Because we REALLY need to see more fucking terminators.

Who loves the emperor more commissars or inquisitors

commissars, they fall less often

Yeah, sure, terminators need buffs. It's not as if Space Marines aren't already the best assault army bar none.

They are the nobs of the space marine world.

If it'd make you happy we could get a CSM variety as well. And Space Marines, and more specifically Dark Angels, which I play, have some of the most poorly internally balanced codexes there are.

Terminators are hot garbage, that's the problem.

How about we make ONLY Chaos Terminators charge after deep striking? I wonder how SMfags will accept that.

People shit on CSM players being whingers but at least we have a reason to. If CSM gets a shiny new toy that SM doesn't, Mr Entitled goes off on a temper tantrum. Whose the real spoilt brat?

I'm going to be participating in a campaign on Vassal in the next few weeks and I want to take the new Deathwatch for a spin.
I know that in such low points it's going to be an uphill battle, but I'm up for the challenge.
Here's the rules for the campaign:
>Rules:
>No Flyers
>Each player will create two 800pt lists
>For each battle, the player may choose which list they wish to use
>After each battle, adjustments may be made
>~150pts worth if you won
>~300pts worth if you lost

The other players are bringing Tau, Dark Eldar, Space Marines, Necrons, and Eldar. It's a pretty casual affair, so I'm not too worried about top tier Taudar roflstomping.

Should I just load a couple Kill Teams up to the gills? Or go more conservative and maybe bring in some Inquisitorial allies?
What are your thoughts?

I was thinking the same damn thing. SM already get Vanguard Vets charging after Deep Strike via the Shadowstrike Kill Team.

Give Chaos Termies charging after Deep-Strike, after all teleportation uses the Warp to get from A to B, and chaos is much more likely to have favour among the warp.

Hell, if it means that much to you, force them to take a Sorcerer in Termie armour to act as a guide.

No fuck you assault termies are in a good place

If anything buff stooting termies like DW

Don't forget the role of Dark Glass in the Golden Throne project... (ref: 'The Path of Heaven')

It could be interesting to look more at the Iron/Stone/Golden Men, except then we would be pre-Age of Strife and it wouldn't be anything to do with Warhammer 40,000 anymore. I'm not saying it's impossible, just unlikely at this stage that we will see a full series or anything like that. That's not really how GW operates.

Interesting note - from Alan Merrett's lips, the Golden Men were a genetically engineered master race, with selective breeding kind of like in 'Dune'. The Iron Men were, obviously, machines. The stone in Stone Men refers to silicon, as in they are organic intelligence, created artificially. I like to think of them like the Thirteenth Tribe from 'Battlestar Galactica', the organic cylons who left Kobol and began their own civilisation.

>CC infantry with. 6" move
>in a good place
Confirmed for not playing 40k at any point during the last 2.5 editions.

not him but i'm new and haven't played vs SM yet
termies can't take rhinos?

correct

deep striking is not enough to make them viable?

Supposedly not, I guess.

The thing with deepstriking terminators is that you can't charge the turn they do, so they will essentially be left staring like gormless idiots in right next to the enemy. If you want to Cc terminators, take an assault vehicle (which is 99% of the time a Land Raider). If you deepstrike, go shooty so you can bring to bear your firepower instantly. That said, your dudes can and will get shot to pieces.

So does the type Infantry (Character) in a codex indicate whether or not a unit is an HQ or something else?

My friend always dropped combi-plas CSM Termies and generally fucked shit up when they came down.

It indicates if the unit is a character. HQs don't necessarily have to be characters (Tanks), and characters don't have to be HQs (Squad Sergeants).

Regular SM do it better with drop pods and sternguard w/combi weapons. You get three shots, max, and then they exist purely to be a threatening set of power weapons.

Oh yeah, them killing things on the turn they arrive isn't in question but then you realize we CSMers call it Termicide for a reason..

>Tfw my Chaos Termies have never, since fifth, made their points back in any game
I still love them and auto-include them because fuck you, I love terminators but goddamnit..

TERMINATOR COVENANT

0-1 Chaos Lord
1 Sorceror
1-3 units of Terminators

Dark Astropath: The Sorceror can adjust this formation's reserve rolls by 1 for every additional mastery level he has. Additionally, units from this formation may charge after arriving by deep strike.

Ancient Brotherhood: This formation must deploy as a single unit, but they never scatter from DSR.

Restrictions: The Sorceror must roll on Biomancy, Divination, or Telekinesis.

The Sorceror and Lord must wear Terminator armor.

Simple and effective. I like it. Certainly beats me Dsing them with my Sorc to jizz out a reaper, 4 combi-shots and a burning brand torrent. I'd actually consider using them as CCers then.

If you believe a T4 2+ 5++ unit is 'hot garbage' you are clearly not used to playing anything but Space Marines.

>formation is a single unit
>up to 32 terminators in a single blob

Also Reaper Autocannons should become the standard CSM autocannon and have it added to the list of Terminator weaponry you can take. It's a nice little piece of kit but woefully underused.

And fuck I want more termie-love in 8th. I want it to be an upgrade choice for sergeants and all Chosen, honestly.

What's the problem? Even the Ork codex has formations that allow that shit with like 30+ Stormboyz. Deathwatch Killteams have formations that nothing but this.

>The thing with deepstriking terminators is that you can't charge the turn they do
This goes for anything that deep strikes. But unlike almost any other army, terminators at least have the resilience to survive the following shooting phase.

Not when you DS them into enemy territory where they are most useful. The enemy will usually turn 3+ squads in rapid fire range in your direction and fuck you up.

Never said it was bad. No need to be defensive

I find it funny

Ah sorry, says a lot about the thread when I auto-assume people are mocking you.

That would be 6 reaper autocannons and a potential 24 combi-melta/plasma shots. And the sorc can cast invisibility on the entire horde.

>mfw 32 invisible terminators

Or you haven't been paying attention: the amount of ap2 shit around is just crazy now-a-days, though this isnt what makes terminator bad. other than SS/TH terminators, and DW CML spam, they are lack luster the damage department

wrong thread

>Kill Team hype

So is this Kill Team, with individuals selected from various units, versus bad guy goons, etc.

Or is it the renamed Combat Patrol, "40K in 40 minutes" you get a small force each with vehicles under a set total armor value, etc.

Because it seems the latter, but they mentions specialists... is it a hybrid?

My groups have been trying to hammer out a decent house rule for assault from DS. The strongest candidate so far is to allow any units Deep Strikers charge to fire overwatch at full BS, since the main problem with assault from DS is that shooting armies didn't get a round to fire at all.

Could any Eldar player help me? I've got a couple of squads of guardians, three dire avengers and a few random miniatures from ebay, and I know jack shit about eldars. I usually play Dark Angels.

Who are this guys, and which weapons they are using? Specially the black one.

...

Without guarantee as I do not have the models
left : Dire Avenger Exarch
dire Avenger
Guardian that comes with the weapon platform
right: Dire Avenger Exarch

Black one is a guardian weapons platform operator.

The other three are dire avenger exarchs, incidentally. Looks like one of each loadout.

>back banners
Every now and then I'm reminded of weeabo Eldar really are.

>from left to right
>dire avenger exarch with shimmershield (5++ for unit) and power weapon
> dire avenger exarch with twin-linked avenger shuriken catapult
>guardian artillery crewman
>dire avenger exarch with diresword and shuriken pistol

Also wew lad those paint jobs

Oh weapons... Didnt read
That is supposed to be some targeter I *think*
he has a shurikencatapult as he is a normal guardian defender.

the exach on the right has a dire sword and shuriken pistol
the exarch on the left a power weapon (spear?)

I think that weapon is from Banshee exarch though but I am not sure

I didn't paint them yet, they are second-hand. I am painting the guardians in the Alaitoc colors, this is my wip.

I'm doing this small eldar army to play Kill Team with them, by the way. I hope GeeDubs doesn't fuck it up.

Left blue one is a Dire Avenger Exarch with a power weapon and shimmershield
The green one is another Dire Avenger Exarch with twin shuriken catapults
The black one is a Guardian equipped with nothing it seems, he's just supposed to be a crew operator for the weapon platform that comes with Guardian squads
The purple and blue one is yet another Dire Avenger Exarch with a dire sword and shuriken pistol.

Strip them please. Those poor Eldar deserve better.

So the guy who sold the miniatures made two normal Dire Avengers and three different exarchs. That sucks, now I need to find at least two more Dire Avengers in order to use them.

Thanks anyway, anons.

Fuckin' A. I'd run that shit. Especially if the new Traitor's Hate book comes with Rubric Termies. Thousand Sons Terminator Covenant... hells to the yes.

SM have a formation that allows their Vanguard Vets to Charge after DS, arrive on any turn of your choice without a reserve roll, and not scatter if deployed within 9" of two scout squads.
Shadowstrike Kill Team IIRC, 2-5 Units of Scouts, 1-3 Units of Vanguard Vets.

Idiot that'll be fenris 2 campaign

Looking good user

How do the Kill Team rules work? Could I take say, 3 lychguard? Or is it only one model from Elites and one from Fast attack?

>Skitarii Kill Team
>No Doctrina Imperatives

Yeah, go fuck yourselves you cunts

>assault is in a good place
>buff shooting

Battle-brother, we're in 7th edition.

AP 2 is everywhere and they're criminally overcosted for their lackluster damage is the problem. Furthermore in assault they can't run, can't sweep, can't charge out of deepstrike and can only take landraiders as transports.

Do the Admech have a presence on planets that aren't Forge Worlds? How do they recruit?

You can take an entire unit of Elites and FA (and 2 troops) but in-game each model acts individually.

Really?

Can I play my Sororitas?

You buy completely normal units with some limitations mentioned elsewhere and then split them into on man units.
>but my base unit is already at or over 200 pts, I can't buy just one guy?
No you can't, ffffuck you having fun.

This also goes for anything that deep strikes. And most other things that deep strikes aren't nearly as tough as terminators.

Space marines aren't the only army with deep striking assault units. They are, however, the only one with a unit that has a decent chance at surviving doing so in the open. Most other armies have to be a bit more tactical with their assaulting deep strikes.

True, but then the answer is still not to deep strike right in front of what you want to assault. Drop behind a building and move around the back lines while moving forward with the stuff on your lines. Whatever the player focuses on, something is going to reach the enemy.

He said assault termies not assault, and he's more right than wrong, 3++ shits all over 4/5ths of the squad carrying fucking stormbolters.

They have enclaves to maintain technology so machine chapels and temples - especially since manufacturing is licensed out by them
They recruit from the menials on forgeworlds - tested for aptitude plus the odd freak genius
Others are recruited in an offer they can't refuse when they tinker with tech

The AdMech have a presence wherever technology is. They are everywhere both because they are needed and because of the Quest for Knowledge. They are even in the ranks of the Space Marines in the form of the Techmarines. They are in the IG as Enginseers. They are everywhere.

>Others are recruited in an offer they can't refuse when they tinker with tech

Can you elaborate on this, or point me to a resource that does?

If this is true, dropped.

No reason to play ad mech in kill team.

Sup Veeky Forums

How viable is it for a Space Marine to make it all the way through recruitment only for their body to reject the Black Carapace? I've got a plan for a renegades & heretics army led by a failed marine candidate who turned to chaos after being cast out of a Fortress Monastary to die.

Pic related, still ultra-wip though.

Pretty viable. Organ rejection is second only to training in killing initiates.

Why wouldn't you get doctrinas in Kill Team?

I play a lot of Deathwing and so I'm acutely familiar with the glaring errors of both, but think of it this way: my DW termies can drop behind someone and instantly lay down some twin-linked dakka, even if it is subpar for their point value. On the other hand, my Deathwing knights can drop in and... do fuck all for a turn, then desperately try to catch up to their prey with 6' move and no run, assuming they live to the next turn.

I play a lot of Deathwing and so I'm acutely familiar with the glaring errors of both, but think of it this way: my DW termies can drop behind someone and instantly lay down some twin-linked dakka, even if it is subpar for their point value. On the other hand, my Deathwing knights can drop in and... do fuck all for a turn, then desperately try to catch up to their prey with 6' move and no run, assuming they live to the next turn.

meant to reply to you, messed up my post

Because the rules, already confirmed by a GW preview, say you can't. Likewise, KDK don't get blood tithe, daemons don't get warp storm etc.

user, are you a Tech Priest?
Basically he's saying "put on the robe, have sex with toasters, or we kill you."

I hope GeeDubs doesn't fuck it up.

Me too, but it's GW.

What model is that?

That's fine. At such a small point level, doctrines would be overpowered and ridiculous.

would it be shit to run 5 mono-weapon squads of Deathwatch (one boltguns, one stalkers, one infernus bolters, one shotguns and one frag cannons) with a redeemer and a blackstar and a few drop pods and just deploy in the enemies' deployment and flamer template everything to death?

>yfw cucks can't even charge you squads for fear of dying to wall of flame and shooty armies all die because they a weak ass toughness

Don't bother with normal bolters. Shotguns, Stalkers or go home.

i would if the kit allowed it, but you only get one of each weapon in the kit, and i'm not going to buy 5 kits instead of the 4 i was planning on buying because then i can't afford a drop pod

Probably, Alpha Strike lists don't make for very fun games.

Dont bother with mono-boltgun: because of the way the rules are, you can have a special weapon and your bolt gun, and BG are easy to get hold of.

Counts-as, buddy.

Complete scrub here looking for help with assaulting and terrain.

The rules say "The initial charger must be in base contact with the nearest enemy model." How does that work in the example of pic related, when there isn't enough room to have base contact? The part
>If a charging model cannot reach any enemy models, it must try to move within 2" horizontally or 6" vertically of one of its own unit’s models that is already in base contact with an enemy.
implies that you must have at least one model in that base contact first.

The rules for Barricades and Walls says
>Models that are in base contact with a barricade or wall are treated as being in base contact with any enemy models who are directly opposite them and in base contact with the other side of that barricade or wall.
but what if, again, the models are a half inch away from the barricade/wall rather than in base contact? Does it still count?

Lastly, if I'm not phrasing this right, is there a way for an opponent to exploit vertical terrain against assaults (making it impossible to be charged), and if so, are there rules or unofficial agreements to work around it? I figure that will a jump infantry model landing on Impassible Terrain, there's no way to charge them, but what is the case for regular, raised positions (like the second floor of ruins)?

Are you implying that I am not a magos?

Let it be known that you are to be taken and turned into a far more useful servitor.

>I figure that with* a jump infantry

Land on the rim, invoke wobbly model syndrome all over his ass.

Right, I have Khornate CSM I practically never field unless its a practice game with a rhino. I also have 10 CSM with a rhino I also never field because all the shit I want doesn't leave room for points. i can trade the CSM and at least 1 rhino to a buddy for some Tau stuff I could really use or I can turn the Khornate rhino into tzeentch, trade him the marines and use the rhinos for their original intended purpose: ferrying my 2 Rubric squads.

I just fail to see how useful rhinos are for them. They always get popped superfast and I never find the point of them. 4++ and the need to keep them at ranged doesn't make for bad footsloggers honestly.

You'd either need to pistol a space for yourself before charging or play with people who are pretty chill. RAW can really fuck up assaulting into ruins if abused (or actually adhered to), in your diagram it would be common that the a defender is moved an inch back to accommodate a single charger, or to count being under an inch from a wall as base contact, but that would be strictly dependent on your opponent.

Rhino give the option of moving quickly upfield, protect them from small arms fire for a period, make excellent LoS blockers, and can even be good suicide objective grabbers with ObSec.

They definitely get better with target saturation.

Rhinos are disposable shield walls. You can LoS block your dudes by using Flat Out moves.

rhinos are good for units who want to get in fast and not get shot on the way
for example berzerkers benefit more from rhinos than vanilla csm

Wobbly Model Syndrome is only for if the model could, theoretically, fit there without falling off. It's designed for when a model is fully on the edge of a building like that, or standing on a pile of rubble and ruin that would leave him slanted, or things like it. You don't get to hover in goddamn midair because of it.
Yeah, you're basically fucked there. RAW you can't actually charget hem unless you have a way to go over them. A lot of people are nice about it, but there's also a lot of people who aren't, and they're under no obligation to be. As long as they're at all away from the barricade/wall/edge of the roof, you can't reach them from that angle, ever.

For the first of your question, it is essentially a matter of how your group wants to handle terrain disputes. In my head, both sides of the argument have valid reasons for saying what they are saying and it will be up to the group to decide. Said reasons are as follows.

>If the model cannot be placed, no charge happens.
This of course benefits the defender and rewards canny positioning to ensure that his position is secure from forward charges. It also respects the physical aspect of the game where if a model cannot physically reach his targets, then well... he can't.

>place a die/marker/token to mark where the model should be and work from there.
This respects the wobbly model syndrome bit. It's not quite a hard and fast rule, just a bit in the movement phase of the BRB where they suggest if you can't place a model on a piece of terrain cos it might fall, just place a marker where it should be and work from there. This of course assumes you can place your model there in the first place (not impassable terrain, etc) but would be too dangerous to the model to actually place there.

Personally I am leaning to the former where no charge happens, but again that is how my group handles things.

For the second part of your question, the short answer is no. If you are not in base to base contact of the wall, you do not make the charge.

Finally, the last part of your question goes back to my response in the first with an addendum. The way my group works with floors is this. Each floor is set to 3" high. So if there are no models in the ground floor, simply add 3" to the requisite charge distance if the models are in the second floor and 6" if the models are in the third.

Hope this helps