Alright, dudes. Debate time

Alright, dudes. Debate time.
In an all out war, who would win, the Imperium of Man or the United Federation of Planets?
No weapoms pf apocalyptic proportions, of course.

I like the Trek verse more, but even o have to say Imperium. Federation ships are NOT built for war, only exploration and research. Everything in the Imperium is geared toward war. Only advantage Federation has is Warp speed travel, giving the possible ability for sudden strikes on Imperial territories, and then fleeing before a response can be put together by PDF or local military forces

Oh, sure, rule out Exterminatus and void torpdoes. Try again with less obvious b8.

Someone tell me how ships in Star Trek go fast. I know in Star Wars they have something called hyper lanes which are paths they use to navigate in lightspeed but have to be mapped out or else they'll probably die. What are the technics behind Star Trek?

It's also ruling out Trek's bullshit Genesis torpedoes that can transform a nebula and all the vessels inside it into a planet.

Whichever one gets Stitch

Star Wars wins

Bitch halo wins

No tengen topa gurren exterminatus heretical Spartans and according to the new books in chapter 65 the broadsword katana plus the BFG from Doom but the Diablo comes out of no where in Terran power armor but at the same time is a dragon born who was trained by Picard and also has access to Megas XLR and of course we throw in the codex and spinoff video games into the mix

Federation initially loses space engagements due to its lack of a significant standing army, but has insane production capability and can reliably produce technology that is the equivalent of DAoT once it starts developing dedicated warships.

They still are unable to fight Space Marines or the masses of the Guard in planetary combat, but they can freely use tactics like teleporting bombs and such against them. And their ships are much faster and have greater range for engagement so boarding actions against them are right out.

They even have their own warp gods in the Q Continuum, so they could get them to prevent issues from Chaos and the Warp.

Since they're also Human, and are able to actually respect treaties unlike the Tau, after the initial clash they would probably be written off by the Imperium as "Not worth going to war against considering greater thrreats" and the Federation would probably provide them with limited technology to help them fight against threats like the Tyranids and the Orcs while trying to uplift the Imperium and reform it through soft power.

The Federation would stop short of trying to invade or conquer the Imperium despite their dissonant values, especially regarding their genocidal nature towards the Tau or Heretics, due to it being a North Korea problem where the resources required are staggering and the ideological differences are deeply entrenched so that changing them would require the Federation to violate it's own values to have any reasonable chance of converting them.

The Tau would probably cream their forehead vaginas at encountering the Federation, since they're pretty close but better in every way both technologically and with their integrated society of Xenos with equality across the board. Then they would suffer a massive societal crises since the only reasonable action would be to join the Federation instead of having the Federation join them and submit to being an equal but lesser part of the Federation.

Okay so then NOD wins I like it user

Tyranids and Orks get BTFO because once the Federation gets rolling, without moral concerns they're fucking terrifying. Their society being incredibly stable and open, and having secret police that aren't really secret so much as NSA to the max, and the ease of medical care and scanning means they would be impossible to infiltrate for the Tyranids as well.

Orks would be contained to systems they already lived in, and possibly uplifted. Once again, organization and scanning tech would allow Ork infestations to be thoroughly and completely removed from planets they landed on.

Working with the Imperium against these threats would make them dangerous but controllable.

The Eldar would probably shit their pants with autism and fuck up, since recording and communication ability of the Federation would mean screwing them over would be remembered and analyzed. At least they would be able to tell Eldar and DEldar apart.

Could even lead to fragmenting the Craftworld Eldar as the Federation would be willing to negotiate with them separately and once again be able to tell them apart.

Organization and Production capability in the Federations case IS a superweapon.

Yeah, I see it going to the Ferries. Treknobabble is powerful sorcery while WH40K prides itself on how pants on head retarded it is.

I foresee a curb stomping of the Imperium on a scale equivalent to the Bank's The Culture fighting Trek's Ferries.

Federation would destroy Imperium.

Why? Because the Federation can replicate any technology that exists in the 40k universe and is superior to their own, they wouldn't have any superstitious objections to doing so, they can achieve FTL in absentia of the demon plagued hell that is the Immaterium, they wouldn't hesitate to ally with any of the less destructive alien races, and their ships are infinitely superior in terms of actual naval combat.

Sure, Joe Blow Astartes would wreck Data or Worf in a hand to hand fight, but it would never even get that far.

It's not even a contest, d e s u s e n p a i.

Space is mostly empty. So Trek ships just point in a direction they know is empty and go, relying on navigational deflectors to deal with any dust they couldn't detect in time to avoid.

Federation if they can get their shit together quickly enough.

Federation has access to transporters that can go through shields, transporters that can go across light years distance but still accurate for Picard to not end up inside wall, cloaking devices that can also make you untouchable, artificial intelligence, replicators, FTL sensors and anti-matter.

They could send out a fleet of automated AI ships stacked with small anti-matter warheads, armed with those two types of transporters and equipped with a phase-cloaking device and a warp drive.

It blitzes through the cosmos and, from deep space, beams nukes into the heart of population centres. It travesl at high warp and does not slow down. It is a wave of death that travels at high warp and leaves nuclear winter and broken worlds in its path.

Federation Earth alone could scour the 40k galaxy clean of life in 70 years if they put all their technological might into one no holes bared nightmare attack. It would cost them their souls but what the fuck, They in 40k universe now so who cares.

The Imperial Navy would last longest. How long? Who knows. However long it takes for the last ship to need a dock yard.

If Federation can't get shit together quick enough then they are obliterated to the bedrock and drown in guardsmen. Imperium has more soldiers on a hive world than the Federation has people.

Don't the infantry in Halo still use 7.62mm?

Also I remember a thread on spacebattles detailing how hilariously back dthe Scorpion is. Wish I could find it.

Why is this even a question.

Imperium ships can take decades real time to travel between worlds, often get lost and are at risk of being eaten by demons.

The Fed can get entire taskforces there in less than a week completely safely, in comfort in fact.

Not to mention how nearly every world would defect to the feds either immediately or after a couple of years of being in contact with one of their utopian planets.

Even if you allowed doomsday weapons after the first couple of exterminatus' section 31 would be launching Genesis devices into holy terra and the war would be over like that.

In Star Trek it's actually the space that moves,not the ship itsel,it's something about distorting the space-time tissue

The premise is wrong.
This is like asking,
"In an all out fight, who would win, a cat or an eagle? No flying of course"

Just full blown dakka has been the one thing the empire has been about, while the federation was more subtle with MAD and superweapons. The federation also cares about civilian casualties, while the imeperium of man doesn't.
So you have an obviously superior foe for the federation and they are arbitrarily not allowed to utilize the only way they would have to beat that foe.

These threads blow

If it'd be sudden, quick war, Federation loses. Star Trek is made to be slightly more believable with technologies that are gimmicky but a potential thing than one day in the future would be both possible and practical. W40K is rule of cool cranked up to eleven. If you read fluff on space marines, their implants etc they're half-god war machines already - while in their own verse they die often, it's because everything else is also cranked up to eleven, handwaved or to succesful to maintain the basic premise of grimdark. Federation would need mechanized infantry to take out such a marine - regular handheld weaponry likely wouldn't do anything. I mean, even in the movies, their warlike superhumans wouldn't be able to really hurt Astartes Sue.

Federation has many worlds, IoM has shitton of them. Federation has mostly worlds being just Earth-like centres of civilization where their little socialists live in peace. IoM has whole planets turned into massive factories or spawning grounds, churning soldiers and equipment all the time. I doubt Federation would have an army 10% of the size of IoM.

But that would be the beginning. If IoM wouldn't wreck them in initial fighting, Federation likely could use its super advanced technomagic to outdo IoM despite their worlds not being utilitarian cogs in the machine.

There's also the setting. Are dangers of warp there? Is propulsion of both groups now the same or it's 'different warp'? If they're in the same universe now and warp speed jumps would be like IoM warp either Federation risks being completely fucked up by using warp without any decent defenses or preparation or IoM suddenly can go crazy.

Now, all out war also implies fighting in regards to intelligence and whatnot. It's also hazy - on one hand Federation likely got proper tech, probes etc to outdo the IoM, but on the other - they lack any decent psykers etc. Federation civvies are just that, IoM ones are being brainwashed and treated as a resource.

Loving how based this thread is.

Ignoring super weapons it comes down to time, every one agrees that if the Imperium fails to fully wipe out the Federation in one swift move the Federation would win thanks to superior tactics and sheer industrial power.
Hell, the Dominion match up extremely close to the Imperium in terms man power, ethics and tactics and once the federation blockaded the worm hole they quickly whittled down the Dominions superior numbers and military strengh.

Thanks to the Imperium being a pre-warp society (to use Star Trek terms) the Federation would have very little to fear, especially since any warp rifts would display on star fleet sensors as a Temporal Anomaly meaning the fedration could easily detect incoming Imperium fleets.
Funny thing is that against any other 40K race the Federation would be crushed. Even the Eldars use of planetary webway portals would really screw with federation defences, and if the Craftworlds can just hide Star flert would struggle to counter attack. Orks, Necrons, Tyranids, Chaos? They're basically all an alternate, far more aggressive forms of the Borg and we all know how Star Fleet is terrified of a large scale Born incursion. Yet alone a prolonged conflict.

Fuck tablets and auto correct. Star Flert & the Born? Sounds like some Reboot Abrams shit.

>the initial clash they would probably be written off by the Imperium as "Not worth going to war against considering greater thrreats"
>Heretics who don't even worship the Emperor and consort with Xenos
>Not worth going to war against

Federation loses. Badly.

Imperium wins in space. Sure, their ships can get lost in warp and may take centuries to arrive (or arrive centuries early). But they can still zip far longer distances compared to Trek ships. It takes Voyager seasons to make a journey that imperial navy ship would solve in one warp journey. The warp travel also means they can appear out of anywhere, and cannot be detected en route to federation worlds unless they miss target by lightyears. Which wouldn't be problem since Federation has nothing to compare to imperial ships. Sure they could try to use transporter to teleport imperial crew out of their ships, but considering that Federation transporters can get jammed by mineral deposits on planets, and imp ships travel regulary through warp and have shielding against that, it won't be problem.

And the size contrast, Federation couldn't even travel through imperium in a time it takes of a relatively sized fleet to warp into Federation area and wreck most of Federations worlds.

>But federaion has le superior production le superior tech and can turn the tables on imperium by copying their tech
Like they did against the Borg and Dominion