Veeky Forums convince me to play a Scion only army list

That's pretty badass.

The regiments are there but they need

>Certain motifs possibly could copy modern day special forces
>Special named characters not alot of regular IG Regiments have these but some need them
>More Space Marine butt buddy relationships
>Scions who value human life and a bros with the Salamanders
>use more shady death watch type equipment

Can someone explain to me what tge diffrence is between these guys and regular stormtroopers trained by the scholea? I never read the army books and was on a slight 40k hiatus when they were introduced.

Go for it! The models are awesome! My only suggestion would be to get an Imp Knight as backup. Thats what I did, painted scions and knight the same and they fit together great!

>That and how edgy they make the Scholas out to be.
why would imperial special ops academies not be edgy

There is none, they just retconned scholas into grimpderp

>they just retconned scholas
they didn't retcon anything, they just described how scholas worked for the first time

As far as my understanding goes;

>Scions; schola trained, borderline fanatical, stoney faced, tacticool special forces (ex. Militarum Tempestus, Inquisitorial Stormtroopers).
>Stormtroopers; regimental veterans, highly motivated, cigar chompin, well equipped commandos (ex. Kasrkin, Krieg Grenadiers).

There's probably some overlap, but just play it by rule of cool IMO.

Each regiment has one basically though the problem is we barely now the few special ones

Kasrkin,Grenadiers, and Catachan Devils were the ones who were compared to Storm Troopers

>Stormtroopers; regimental veterans
Stormtroopers have been, from their inception, schola-trained orphan soldiers.

Grenadiers are the regimental veterans.

Scions are Stormtroopers with a silly gothic name, but otherwise completely unchanged.

Paint them up like the Wolf Brigade.

Makes commissars and Scions boring blank-slate characters that lack any personality and "follow orders word-by-word to the point of a fault" levels of Lawful Stupid.

Live fire exercises and strict punishment is fine but it shows it's tryhard nature when they emphasis how they made a wall by throwing in rebellious students into a cemement mixer.

Besides, these are the same schools you pull Adminstratum and Sisters from as well.

Edgy itself wouldn't be a problem; 40k is edgy as fuck.

The problem is that it's the boring kind of edgy, not the fun kind that 40k usually is (ie, Dark Eldar). The kind written by a 14-year-old that unironically thinks it's really cool, like making cadets killing other cadets under the orders of their superiors commonplace for the sake of proving loyalty.

>not the fun kind that 40k usually is (ie, Dark Eldar)
The new scholas are pretty much 40k straight from its earliest source. Back when mind-wiping turned people into drooling retards instead of just conveniently erasing memories.

>like making cadets killing other cadets under the orders of their superiors commonplace for the sake of proving loyalty
That's a thing real armies under brutal dictatorships have done. The imperium acting despotic to the point of it being comical is something the setting's kind of built on.

>Besides, these are the same schools you pull Adminstratum and Sisters from as well.
the nightmare bureaucracy and insane religious zealots?

scholas are also combed for potential assassin and inquisitorial recruits, which are equally horrible institutions

You could make a strike force of Ordo Sepulturum, with the Deltic Lions as the sort of chamber militant for an inquisitor who searches for ways to cure certain diseases. He calls the Lions in whenever he needs to quarantine a Plague Zombie outbreak. Maybe they go hunting Obliterators so they can examine the Obliterator Virus.

That and change their color scheme to Red+medical white

And it's super boring. Every page of the lore outside of the reigment descriptions talk about how grimderp the Scholas are to the point of sheer wasteful stupidity, with very little irony to it. It just comes off as extremely generic bare-bones schlock.

Nevermind that the Scions themselves are fluffed as basically being Space Marines without the genetic enhancements, which keeps them from standing out. Would've been better to emphasize them as being more like the Imperium's Navy SEALS or some other semi-independent spec-ops force, instead of lesser Space Marines.

>Imperium Spetnaz
>Imperium SEALS
>Imperium SAS
>Imperium GHURKAS

>Spetnaz Scion diving through the windshield of Ork Wartrukk

Fund it!

>63 of the 3 heretics confirmed dead

Trips demand it to be so.

Since they're raised by the Imperium itself it's kind of hard to give them traits besides being really good at killing X, at doing Y, or who they may have alliances with. If I recall correctly they don't have a common culture and if they do that gets wiped away.

Could also be a function of them technically not supposed to be an army unto themselves but just allies.

>like one group getting the attention of Nurgle because they are particularly resistant to disease

I don't see how something like this makes them Marines since you could apply the same kind of logic to other factions within armies.

not but them seem to be REALLY immune to what ever shit comes at them

That's still not Marines, when a Chapter has a trait they usually explain or give an inkling as to where it comes from such as geneseed, recruitment world, Chapter culture/battle doctrine, etc.

It's sort of interesting and like I said above comes off as inspiration or a hook for why you may choose to base your Scions on that particular regiment. Maybe you want an anti-Nurgle army or just play a lot of Nurgle aligned CSM or daemons. A lot of the entries come off like that.

Thats why said this Scions got shafted hard

Mostly this, except that when they changed Stormtroopers into a more copyright-able name, they also gave them the pseudo-Baroque-styled armor as a universal retcon.

See, before, Scions were these hardcore spec-ops motherfuckers who could find themselves working with Guard, or for the Inquisition as elite goons, depending on what was needed at the time. And their kit was varied enough that they could get that job done.

I personally just interpret the new pseudo-Baroque armor as a new issue of kit that can be chosen. I still love the old look for Scions, so tend to use that. My Scion list actually uses older models and even one or two Grenadier squads from other AM lists for a little bit of visual variety.

Unfortunately they are pretty mono-pose, esp the heavy weapons guys. But if that doesn't you, then go for it. I wanted to do them, but didn't like that literally every squad would be in the same position, Not a good thing in an army that might only have 25-30 dudes in it.

I run them in kill team and Heralds of Ruin, which has good traction at my local store. The smaller model counts combined with my own need to add bits and fenangle with models to make them all unique makes it a bit less monopose.

But yeah, if you don't have the patience to cut them up and green-stuff them, they're really frustratingly same-y.

I like how you think it's anything other then GW changing Stormtroopers to something easier to slap a trademark on.
Like the "aelfs" and "duradin" in Age of Sigmar; change the fluff so you can change the name and add a TM to the end of it.

It's transparent as everloving fuck.

>space ghurkas head taking Khorne warriors

the old stormtroopers were generic af and were not different enough from regular troops

I actually like the scion designs, but wish they had a lot more wargear options to make them the special forces superheroes they were always meant to be.

I don't mind the equipment change but all the fluff stuff we now know is the usual shit from GW.
>"Look at how badass and totally radical this new group/unit is! Aren't they cool with their cool models and cool new fluff that shows off how cool they are? Buy them and their newly trademarkable name!"

I've been in stables with less horseshit on the floor then falls out of GW's mouth.

the equipment isn't really different aside from the style

they always had carapace armor and hellguns (now called hot shot lasguns and are AP3 rather than AP5, but otherwise the same)

I fucking swear to god I saw this exact chain of replies in at least three previous tempestus related threads in this exact fucking order, including the image.
It might have been four even, they all went the same. i can't be dreaming
this is real

is it still possible to have !not scions, who have the same equipment and stats, but go by the original kasrkin lore, of being recruited from the top members of the PDF or guard, and being given US rangers style training, instead of being raised in the schole?

Then you're just playing grenadiers without access to taurox and HSVG's.

i mean the only difference is in lore

are the special forces style stormtroops gone?

If you asked a member of GW? Yes, kind of, these new guys are supposed to be those same dudes. So if they aren't special forces enough for you, then yes.

But that's the thing. It's 40k, and it was a retarded decision. Don't follow it. Make your army the way you want, from a modeling perspective. Do your fluff like you want, mang. Every "my dudes," army comes off as a bit sue-ish anyway, so go hog wild.

No they're just done in regiment instead of by the schola.

Kaskrin's still exist in lore, dont listen to GW.

Kasrkin are grenadiers though, not what this guy asked about. He asked about the scions special-forces stormtroopers.

Kasrkin are an offshoot stormtrooper that are specifically the best of Cadia, not the Schola.

Kasrkin are special forces they're just cadia trained instead of schola trained. He didnt specify that he wanted his not scions to be from a schola.

As long as Kasrkin exist he can have any special forces he wants, they just wont be from the scholas.

40k is actually coming back full stride at my lgs. Warmashit and Infinity players who quit 40k are furious and salty as fuck desu.

ever seen groundhog day?

Regimental storm troopers still exist

Mind if I ask how you run your kill team scion list?

I got a regular squad and a command squad on display and kill team seems perfect for me to finally use scions

Maybe add in a Taurox? Doesnt some bundle come with a commissar too?

They look cool
Hella cool

Who needs flashy special forces when you have artillery and human wave tactics? Play Death Korps, they look way cooler anyway

Going by the IG codex

Militarum Tempestus command squad
+ 4 Hot shot volley guns
total:125

Tempestus Scions
+ GL
Total:75

So thats 200 total and that is apparently all you need

scions wont get updated they will get murged into main guard codex.

scions are literally the equivalent of forge world grenaders or old gw stormtroopers . GW is doing smaller stand alone codex but scions was from a time when they actually intended this to be a new army and people would just stop using guardsmen.. yes.. I know how crazy this sounds. they literally wanted every guard player to quit guard and play scions. but they didn't sell in the first month so they relased the backup astra mil codex

This plus they're fucking stormtroopers. If you absolutely have to play 40k, then at least fucking play 40k.

No no no no.

Stormtroopers are and always have been trained in Schola. The renaming to Scions is purely a legal move towards something they think they can trademark. "Stormtroopers" was believed to be too generic. Stormtroopers = Scions the same way Astartes = Space Marines and Ad Astrum Milishwazzit = Imperial Guard.

The iconography and new baroque style is similarly designed to be distinctive enough that companies like Chapter House can't create compatible third party miniatures without being sued into oblivion. Whether that's actually true or not is debatable; courts have repeatedly ruled that you can't copyright a look and feel.

These guys have it right. Stormtroopers are elite military units raised to do special operations. They work directly for the Administratum rather than through the Imperial Guard's general staff bureaucracy, though they're frequently seconded to their command.

Meanwhile, many planets have special forces of their own that end up included in their Imperial Guard tithes. The most famous are the Kasrkin from Cadia. These are less politically reliable (at least to the Administratum) but tactically identical.

The analogy here is Spetznaz and the old USSR. A blanket term for special purpose elite troops, but they could have been GRU, KGB, or other. In the Soviet Army, each level of organization above Division included some spetznaz units as part of their TO&E, answerable to the formation's second officer (intelligence). Plus several brigades of spetznaz that are part of the General Staff's intelligence directorate. Plus the soviet satellites had their own equivalent special forces that were functionally Spetznaz but not called that.

Here's your grimdark cite: militera.lib.ru/research/suvorov6/index.html

or if you wanna play with random people by GWs rules you can do this

5 Scions

2 with hotshot lasguns
Tempestor has a CCW and bolt pistol
1 scion with a hotshot volley gun
1 Scion with a plasma gun
1 Taurous Prime missile launcher and twin linked storm bolter+auto cannon

I have personally seen this list and I also think GW has made this a sort of official bundle

I'm tempted to do this, if only to make a Kasrkin strike team. Maybe I should hit eBay and go for a Kill Team.