Dude where's my thread edition

Learn to use greenstuff ffs

In the legion book it says elite in the 'unique units' section but heavy support on the page.
I'm using hammer so I can get rid of the last of a unit or at least stall death stars

Trips of truth

will do

They were changed to HS in the most recent Red Book

There's been 4 red books, crusade list v1, crusade list v2, istvaan purging legions version , istvaan betrayal + ultramarines versions
This is from the most recent one

I'm thinking of making a white scars 30k army, should I use the Forge world add ons for heads and armor, or am I allowed to just use MKIV models?

We all know what FW means. Tyrants are HS whether we want or not. Stay bitter Iron Warrior.

That's a copy-paste, they're Heavy Support, as shown on their unit page.

If you're going to use MkIV armor, don't, as it will trigger the armor autism, seeing as their upgrade set is for MkII armor.

Most recent is Age of Darkness Legions which has that line because the copied it from the first book IW were in along with the mislabeled appendix numbers from their previous books.

the Unit entry says otherwise

Take a picture of the damage for us,for all we know you could be complaining about nothing.

Anything else you wish to comment on about the list, as either way forgeworld hasn't made a new FAQ and I'm still well within my limits for unit slots

Which legion(s) saw the most savage fighting during the Great Crusade and took the most casualties?

probably ultramarines

Anyone but Night Lords

What's the most efficient use of a predator, squadrons of 3 with lascannon sponsons and normal turret

Iron warriors and world eaters, that's probably why they're trusted allies
Although thousand sons had the highest percentage of casualties

Death Guard and Dark Angels had massive loses during some kind of genocide campaign, Rangan or something.

World Eaters probably made the fighting savage.

Night Lords were brutal fighters but didn't engage in the type of fighting that resulted in massive casualties.

Iron Warriors had high mortality rates.

Iron Warriors in general, Dank Angels for the Rangdan Xenocides.

Didn't the salamanders at the dropsite massacre go down to 760 space marines due to how many died?

Night Lords confirmed the smartest legion

Yes, but user's asking about the Great Crusade.

>Istvaan
>Great crusade
Pick one and only one

>during the Great Crusade
As in, before Istvaan and the Shadow Crusade, right? DA and IW, along with maybe WE and DG as well.

sorry

forgot my pic related

its still ultramarines

its ether ultramarines or DA, they accomplished more than all the other legions using conventional tactics, they wouldve seen more combat and had more casualties.

the luna wolves did more than both of them, but because of their fighting style they probably didnt suffer as many casualties as the other 2 more conventional legions.

Wrong again. The Ultras conquering the most worlds doesn't mean the other legions did jackshit.
Except those Word Bearers, they failed.

user, what are you talking about? The Ultramarines were busy building Imperium Secundus. The Iron Warriors were the ones with the most casualties, and if the Rangdan Xenocides are counted, then the Dark Angels were up there as well.

The only thing the word bearers did was fuck over the imperium

he said which legions saw the most savage fighting. its ether the smurfs or the DA.

he said which legions took the most casualties. its ether smurfs or DA.

the legions that conquered more shit, wouldve seen more fighting. duh.

>Fuck you I can get all my Iron Warriors killed and achieve nothing in the process, I'll show you!

user, that's wrong though.

no it isnt.

is right. just because IW are retarded autists, doesnt mean they saw the 'most fighting' considering they didnt conquer anything of note. just because they like to phosphex bomb themselves doesnt mean they saw the 'most fighting'

Or perhaps the legion that was singled out to break fortifications would have seen the fiercest fighting, whilst the legions that were just allowed to go on their way would have had some tame worlds
>50 broken castles beats 5,000 broken mud huts

most fighting doesn't equal savage fighting though

>Attacking and breaking fortress worlds is easy
Must I remind you how the Gorgon had to save the UM's and IM's collective ass when they fought against AT-ATs?

>Thinks the only legion capable of riding the Ironfire and snipe specific models with artillery was bombing itself.
Jesus, I hate WBs and you're making me root for them.
BTW have faith Word Bearers.

user, if anything you're the autist here. Do you even know your lore?

all fighting is savage.

>all the braindead bitter autists are up in arms because their donothing legion actually did nothing and they have no proof otherwise

Did most of the Terran Iron Warriors perish at Incaladion?

>the most savage fighting during the Great Crusade
The most savage fighting during the Great Crusade were both the Rangdan Xenocides and Ullanor. As such, several legions "saw the most savage fighs" of the Great Crusade.
But IW, WE and DG were the meatgrinder legion, and as such they accumulated more casualties than all others in the span of 200 years, even if they didn't conquer the most planets.
The IW got assigned difficult jobs, the DG fought in places where not even marines could survive and the WE...well, they were just fucking angry.

That's grim.

This sounds good, source?

Would love to see the Rangdan Xenocide fleshed out a little more, but then again I think it's important to have vague super-threats in the backstory to give the setting some added atmosphere, and room to make up your own scenarios without the constraints of existing fluff.

Hey, talking of savage fighting pre-Istvaan, surely the Yiffs would be contenders for a top-3 position, what with there iffy history of offing at least one Legion.

Iron warriors had the most grueling attritional campaign

Ultramarines probably had the most deaths. Just cuz they're so much larger

Nah mate, Iron Warriors had the most deaths, and would be the largest legion had they not so many casualties.

Ultramar is like 500 worlds, either the ultras were really really fucking lazy or not all of the worlds they conquered/helped pacify got absorbed into it

anyway iirc tempest says that ultramarines always take huge casualties if they can't zerg rush the enemy with overwhelming numbers

HH2, IH's exemplary battle: Gardinal
They killed half of the Atarus Titans', defeated the 413th UM and 500 000 IM.
Then the Gorgon arrived...
One of the IH's pictured dreads was stepped on by one of those giant "Titan-sized quadrupedal armoured walkers".
Having barely mentioned battles can help you do a lot of fluffing. Probably they'll be expanded on the DA HH book, however.
If you get to grow to 250 000 then it means your dudes aren't dying enough. Decimation for lack of zeal

>its an IW headcanon episode

Thanks man, sounds fucking awesome.

You know, if the war against the Hrud consumed 1/5th of the IWs, and at the moment of the heresy they were about 180 000, that means even after being bled out by all that siege breaking, expeditionary fleet branching and garrisons, they were still 225 000 Iron Warriors just before 933.M31.

How curious, the UMs surpassing both the DA and IW by merely not participating in a xenocide and keeping to legion building, twice.

>2500
Why no Night Raptors?
They are WS5 and +D3A on the charge. Also, really cool models.
Not running cause of Overkill concerns? Points? Don't like winning?

not the list user but another NL player, raptors are expensive as fuck and die just the same as a tac marine. Why pay a huge premium when you can get pretty much teh same work from normal CHEAP assault squads?

Since the new red book I am now running a drop assault vanguard list with assault marines as my troops backed up by all the nice toys NL can take and I can do that because I am not paying out the fucken ass for night raptors that fall over in a stiff breeze.

always take battle servitors, BS5 means is insurance to make sure your missiles actually hit and do their job and score penetrations. If your going to do something do it right user, don't half ass is and then feel bad when your lightnings don't perform, if your going to spend the money and effort kit those awesome suckers out right.

Procls and cons of siege legions? Imperial Fists or Iron Warriors appeal to me and I'm going to be fighting a 30k campaign on a forgeworld fluffed urban campaign soon as a loyalist.

Imperial Fists
+Satiates my Lust for Bolters with their +1BS on Bolters
+Sigismund will wreck everything in Close Combat.
-Close Combat sucks, dawg. It's all about that range game, yo!
+/- Their color scheme is nice. But it is yellow.
-Yellow is really hard to paint man. Like, seriously. It's hard.
-Meh LA rules. I mean, it's pretty much just +1BS with Bolters and some other stuff that's kinda decent, but not really.

Iron Warriors
+No downsides
+Plays 30k and Great Crusade canonically.
+Are cooler than the IF fluffwise.
+/-Simple color scheme, chevrons are a small pain though.
+Great RoWs and Unique Units.
+Ignore morale and have better bombs from LA rules.
-No upsides.
-FW shafts you repeatedly.
-Doesn't satiate my Lust for Bolters, unfortunately.
-No models for Unique units. Other than the Beep Boops, of course.
-Meh LA rules. I mean, it's just ignoring morale from ranged attacks, CC still applies and gaining Wrecker on your bombs is really situational, unless fighting against a lot of armor and/or fortifications, won't come up often.

I'd say Iron Warriors because they're my legion, though I wouldn't mind having +1BS with Bolters.

Original user, I was thinking BS5 is the icing on the cake and mandatory, I see lists without is why. Thanks, will keep as is.

That is my thoughts too, Assault Marines seem so much better due to cheapness. Worried that adding them would make the army less effective, and yes, overkill is a concern.
Like the list? I figure having only Flyers will catch some opponents off guard, hence the lack of Land Speeders/Javelins
Can I see that list? Sounds neat.

Tell us more about what you're expecting to find in the Siege and about this urban scenario of yours.

Using conquest rules in book 4, Im planing on being in charge of contesting the forge world. I like flexibility between drop pods assaults, rhinos and footslogging, but most importantly I want something about about my dudes being good, some Mechanicus ties so I can eventually introduce mechanicus/skitarii allies, and most important of all sheer and utterly complete raging hatred for the traitors

You could definitely go with Loyalist Iron Warriors. You could say that they were garrisoned on the Forge World and decided to remain loyal alongside the Mechanicum forces on the planet. It helps that they're Sworn Brothers with them too!

Footslogging works better with IW than usual, as their ability to ignore ranged Morale helps this. Hammer gives free Extra Armor, if you want a ton of HS and Rhinos.

>most important of all sheer and utterly complete raging hatred for the traitors
sounds like IF

Loyal Iron Warriors then.
>Sworn Brothers with Mechanicum
>Kyr Vhalen inventing new swear words after being betrayed by the Alpha legion
>They can footslogg and ignore ranged morale
>Their Rhinos get Extra Armour in the Hammer of Olympia (meh, but it's there).

They drop pod like a regular legion, and their deepstrike termie fun is confined to traitors Perturabo and Golg, though.

I think you'd be more enraged if you were betrayed not by "those other legion fucks", but by your literal kin, even your Primarch.

My brother of other company!

siggy was so pissed that his mini-legion went on a 10,000 year long crusade

Not anymore. Siggy was EXILED and disowned by Dorn, after he found out he chickened out of Phall due to fear of dying forgotten among the stars, after hearing a prophecy. A single moment of laxity and all he had worked for could have been gone. Afterwards, THE Emperor's Champion knew he could never allow himself to falter any more, at the head of his own chapter in an eternal crusade.
He never had the bitter pride of having to kill his own traitorous kin, and end the lives of degenerated monsters he once called "brothers".

Not overly excited about this new backstory of his, but at least he overcomes his errors and embarks on his duty with dignity. And lots of Hatred for traitors, witches and xenos.

>Autilon Skorr is an event exclusive mini, so I still wouldnt have to have an order code, do I?

Yes, you would've had a sales receipt which they would need to verify your order. They don't accept only batch codes. FW has great customer services, as long as you buy directly from them.

>mini-legion
user, the Black Templars have never been over a thousand men and have always been codex-compliant!

even in current fluff they are over 6000

That got retconned bro. They're 1000 guys now.

>I hear they LOVE psykers!

prove it

newfag much?

...

Its not new considering Sigismund never had a backstory, he was just a name and 'Dorn's greatest champion' and 'The Emperor's Champion'.

For your ROW consider drop assault vanguard instead of angels wrath, with DAV you get assaults as troops, turn 1 deep strike that is paired with enemies can only snap shot if in 12inch and then you get hit and run anyway. If you couple this with NL turn 1 cover save you can start cranking out some hardy assault squads, they deep strike up close, gain snap shots against them, 5+ cover save minimum, and with a apoth they also get 5+ FNP, oh and the shield on the sarg helps the counter chargers.

We knew he was the best duelist and such, challenging his way around the Siege of Terra and being named the first ever Emperor's Champion, and that he was the first leader of the Black Templars and started the Eternal Crusade.
We now know just a bit more about him.

I like it how BL is giving characters the setting's defining lines
>Sigismund
In the far future there will be only war
>Vulkan
Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be re-learned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace among the stars, only an eternity of carnage, slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods

Not him but they have been stated to be just over 1,000 not to long ago. I think the number was 1,200. Shit pissed me off.

you mean from the shitty BL book guy haley wrote?

>BL
>canon
>guy haley
gg ez

user, you know that order came from GW higher-ups themselves.

Also, BL is canon, and you know it.

To bad it's cannon now :^)

>I like it how BL is giving characters the setting's defining lines
I think it's pretty fucking hamfisted

>tee hee I'm the first to say death to the false emperor
fuck off

But don't space-based crusading chapters get a special dispensation to be over 1000 marines? The Black Templars could (and are suspected to) abuse this editc and have about three independent crusades 600 marines strong and easily be 1800 marines strong.
And estimates do place them from "higher than 1000" to "2k-3k", a sort of compromise from the old "Fuck you, my chapter is six times as big as yours".

>BL is canon,
according to who? this faggot?

So you'd rather have Jimmy the tactical marine say it? Ok.
If Horus voted leave, then who was the Imperium's muslims?
...Tallarn?

No. That's literally one of the most commonly accepted headcanons, like the Leman Russ is a tractor meme.

According to GW. Also Leave was the best choice.

>...Tallarn?
yes

thats why pert is a pretty cool guy

I will look into this, thanks for the suggestion.

>salty stay tears

Daily reminder that leave voters were literally Hitler and UK is now, officially, a fascist dictatorship.

>But don't space-based crusading chapters get a special dispensation
no

Anyways, the only thing that happened in the novel is helbrecht mentioned the templars had a lot of empty bunk beds, which is pretty normal for a chapter that's been through several costly wars without any time to recoup their losses.

>So you'd rather have Jimmy the tactical marine say it?
I'd rather no one say them, because forcing in references reads terribly.

>According to GW
the only 'official' person who ever said that BL is canon is Laurie 'cuck faggot' Goulding, who works for BL anyway.

obviously his opinions really matter :^)

Let's not get into user.