Humor me, shol'va. If the Tau'ri are indeed worthy of your loyalty, why are there no good Stargate games?

Nobody can figure out how to make a combat system in which the Zat pistol is balanced.

Great point

>Tau'ri
>Capable of making good games

It's up to the Jaffa to produce a tabletop worthy of the System Lords.

>it's up to everyone else to create for me
Spoken like a true parasite, goold.

> goold

/thread

>Nobody can figure out how to make a combat system in which the Zat pistol is balanced.
It seemed reasonably balanced in the show.

Maybe give it pretty low accuracy (+5 to target dodge if you're using minisix), but guaranteed incapacitation if you connect?

If the target's not in the open, they'll probably fall down behind cover, so there's no potential for a second follow-up kill-shot.

There's a few times where people (mostly members of SG-1, but I digress) shake off a zat stun after just a few seconds. Let the target try to roll off the stun on their turn?

Fringeworthy from Tri Tac

Goa'uld, you fool.

think he is talking about two to hits kill, three to disintegrate

i would think that they more that you are hit with zats, the easier if it so shake it off. not total immunity, but amount of time spent knocked out. it was consistent that they were out for at least a few hours every time in show

also posting best non-human ship

The accuracy does seem pretty bad in-show, but they also do some crazy shit with it like the time Cameron Mitchell shot some metal shelves so the electricity would arc down then and stun the enemy at the other end.

There's points were I'd just ignore the fuck out of some of the things they do in the show.

Who is best System Lord, and why is it Ba'al?

wasnt there a stargate exploration game at one time?

For whatever it is worth, zats are hardly the most efficient means of killing someone. You can murder them with one staff weapon shot or bullet but the zat requires additional focus, so within the context of the show the zats tend to be used when they specifically want to capture someone. Subsequently killing and then vaporizing a person was actually pretty rare, all things considered.

The imbalance therefore seems to be because in very few systems is a single gunshot or alien energy weapon wound as incapacitating/fatal as it is in real life. So why would the zat retain it's corresponding super stun/lethality? Of course at the same time it ignores armor, but then I suppose so did every other weapon in the show. Very rarely did all that metal the jaffa ran around with protect them.

>There's points were I'd just ignore the fuck out of some of the things they do in the show.
Given all the cool stuff you could do with them, what if you just made them incapacitation-only.

Like fancy pain-inducing tasers? Leave the "can arc across metal" bit in so players can do creative player things.

GOOOLD?

>Very rarely did all that metal the jaffa ran around with protect them.
It did in the first few episodes. Then the SGC switched to AP rounds, and later P-90s, which are specifically designed to punch through body armor.

I get the impression Jaffa armor's built to take primitive/melee weapons they'd face when subjugating human slaves. Staff weapons are powerful enough to not even be worth trying to stop, and *most* societies with guns would just be nuked to death from orbit.

Because it's harder to make a good product while exchanging an ip across companies than you think.

Pretty sure Fantasy Flight and Margaret Weiss primarily make games based on others' IP

Of course the originals were pure intimidation, just robot masks propped up on the shoulders. Of course the budget couldn't handle that so tended to avoid or simplify the helmets. And obviously comparing the movie and the series can only go so far. A far looser adaptation. Makes me wonder what the rebooted movie, if that ever happens, will adapt - or not.

of course they played with it in other ways in the series. There was an episode that talked about how the staff weapons were just tools of terror but the P-90 was a weapon of war. The Free Jaffa started using more tau'ri weapons over time.

I remember being disappointed that the SGC didn't adopt the goa'uld modified tau'ri weapons. Those intars had a nifty stun setting but the most they ever did was use them for training, same as the goa'uld.

Of course they're a lot less distinct than the zat guns.

West End Games almost did one.

johntynes.com/revland2000/rl_sg0.html

X-COM and Stargate are such a perfect mix. The Stargate side indeed gives a reason not to just FUKKEN XENOS your way through all problems.

Incidentally, can we all agree that X-COM would run a much better campaign against the Goa'uld than the SGC had?

There's an episode where they demonstrated why the staff weapon sucks ass outside the hands of a dedicated master (ie, Teal'c or Brae'tac) compared to a gun like a P90.

If a P90 can shred your opponent more accurately and at longer ranges, with a higher RoF and a smaller bulk than a staff, why bother with the staff?

Though, Teal'c bagging that heavy cannon around did seem kinda useful, they also could just pack an AT4...

Problem with Stargate is, it doesn't really have a global part same way X-COM has Geoscape. Then again, it would be hard to pull off in a tabletop campaign

Depends on if X-COM had already faced the Cydonians from the original game. By that point you've got advanced enough tech to put up a proper fight.

Now if you mean a world spanning anti alien covert organization without the Cydonian invasion yeah XCOM would be far more formidable than just the USA because it had an entire planet's talent pool to draw from.

Also more labs and research to throw at Stargate extracted tech.

Staff weapons are mostly useless but zats are pretty great. And intars would be amazing for police forces

I wouldn't say they're useless, exactly. They're incredibly powerful, but the design isn't very effective. They could eventually be used to break down most mundane (i.e. non-energy) barriers, like the security doors on a goa'uld mothership. Eventually. You certainly couldn't do that with a P-90 no matter how many times you reload, forcing them to use explosives. Which would be quicker anyway. I'm just saying that they're definitely powerful. The kull warriors wrist-mounted guns were definitely nasty.

The Wraith, of course, LOVE their stunners since why waste a good meal.

We talked about that episode already. The point was about adapting technology, which technically the goa'uld had already done for them with the intar (Jonas Quinn actually carried one as his weapon, handgun version). For whatever reason they never really bothered. After all there was an episode of Stargate Atlantis that reversed this with them showing off their weaponry to Ronon Dex and he uses his particle magnun to blow apart a target.

youtube.com/watch?v=QAIigNcwYLc

For as adaptive as the tau'ri were with making their own fighters and spaceships they never really bothered to adapt, and barely adopted, alien weaponry into something they would find more useful than a staff weapon.They mostly kept to familiar human weaponry in SG-1 employing alien gizmos sporadically. Except for Tea'lc, of course. He eventually started using their firearms but he always tended to keep a zat strapped to one leg.

I've played 3 campaigns now in a friend's Stargate/XCOM/Halo - ey soft scifi setting. First one was modified Only War with us being one of the earliest exploratory teams, 2nd one was a scratchbuilt system we used to run a few XCOM-esque games because it featured a research and personnel management system, where the characters from campaign 1 had become the administrative staff of our organisation and we started industrialising the scale of our operations, and the 3rd one was back to modified Only War with different mechanics, where it was a lot more social and slice of life-ey, as one squad among a few hundred in our rudimentary interstellar alien-human alliance bloc.

Its a very fun combo.

Speaking of systems for games in the style of X-Com or Stargate.
Apparently, there's a recently translated german RPG called Contact. Apparently it has systems for reserch, interception, diplomacy (there are multiple alien factions) and so on. Haven't seen it myself, just mentioning

I think the issue was one of supply of the necessary materials and the lack of facilities to mass-produce them covertly. They were short on naquadah and all their supplies of that was tied up in bigger projects, namely the starships.

Oooh, Contact looks pretty interesting. Surprisingly anime but I don't really know why I expected any better than that from Germans.

GURPS seems appropriate fit for Stargate.

The show is split between being a straight up alien space gods space opera, pop culture references and surprisingly nosense military science porn.

GURPS Is this sort of game that lets you create Batman give him a light sabre and stil find he's useless against a guy with a M16 and cover.

It's honestly pretty close to show.

It's also supposed to be very crunchy. Because Germans

>There's an episode where they demonstrated why the staff weapon sucks ass outside the hands of a dedicated master (ie, Teal'c or Brae'tac) compared to a gun like a P90.

youtube.com/watch?v=NjlCVW_ouL8

well, i remember the days that a staff blast to the chest threw you across the room along with killing you. same with the Jaffa being able to also throw you across the room. im sure if you cut off one end and attached a rifle stock to it you could deal with the inaccuracy and make it a much more viable weapon

man, i miss it when Jaffa were scary

Early on, sure, but later on they had access to pretty much whatever they wanted. Hell, the free Jaffa movement was able to supply themselves and so were the teams on Atlantis even prior to reestablishing contact with Earth. Sure the advanced tech helped but they made do fine salvaging from defeated Wraith.

Which is what would happen in a tabletop setting for the game. Players strip Jaffa down to their jaffa cakes.

Jaffa stopped being scary by the second half of the first season. You know, when SG-1 mobbed Apophis and his hunting party. When the existence of the personal shields was revealed.

I wonder if FN Herstal paid anything to have this scene at all or have it be this long.

>the answer to everything was d20
I don't know, that feels more like a murrican problem than anything else. I've seen exactly one d20 supplement for a game that wasn't D&D in a game store here and no one played it to my knowledge.

Just play the Homeworld Stargate mod.

I think they were intended to flood the battlefields while their ships plasma bomb the hell out of everything.

Annd on top of that whenever they fought the replicators the staff weapons were proved to be even more useless for they would just absorb the shot, while the SPAS or P90 would just blow them to pieces buying you more time.

>i remember the days that a staff blast to the chest threw you across the room along with killing you

I remember when a staff blast was basically a fucking RPG and could destroy small buildings and vehicles.

Movie was better

You got a link to their site? Google gives me nothing but ea tech support.

contactrpg.de
Pretty sure it's the one

I actually think d6 dice pools is a better system than d20

Go to bed Roland.

SG1 is more popular than your movie for a reason.

>There was an episode that talked about how the staff weapons were just tools of terror but the P-90 was a weapon of war.
youtu.be/NjlCVW_ouL8?list=PLsfOz3sbwA99A_iDfWYP9CIKUp9vBrn8g

YOU!
IN THE SKIRT!

Not him, but the movie was better, simply because it had MUCH better budget.
On the other hand, just like everyone noted, including audiences, the film was absolutely aweless. We had this expedition to alien-but-familiar planet, great bunch of technologies, weird-ass shit and what not...
... wasted on action-military gung-ho film about giving democracy to Middle East. Jesus Christ, what a waste.

fanfiction.net/s/3631062/1/XSGCOM-Mirror-Image

It might've been better from technical standpoint, but as you point out yourself, it's dreadfully boring theme- and plot-wise. Worldbuilding is also kinda meh

The series made some changes but comes off much better.
Also, goa'uld as brain snakes are just more viscerally horrid than a mind-transferred grayyy

>a film is good because it has a big budget

What did he mean by this?

I put it badly, my mistake. Language barrier and shit.
The film had good production value. It means that it had a budget that was capable of making the production possible, while keeping all props of high quality. It basicially means there was enough cash to make it and it was also well-spent, providing quality of production.
Meanwhile, the TV series was always made on the budget, so a lot of simplification of props had to be made and the quality was only decreasing over the years, as there were props to be recycled and the series migrated to different makers.

That's all. The film is good in sense of well-made production of it, not even as a movie itself. You know, like... um... well, pretty much everything from Roland, really. So-so films, but with great production. It's not even about special effects themselves or just props, simply the summed up value of all technical elements required to show the setting.

I feel like there should be a decent mid-point.

With the staves as relatively slow-firing rpg equivalents for fighting armoured alien tech and modern firearms being better for anti-personnel and skirmishing.

Speaking of low budget, the worst episode has to be the one in season 2 with the naked plant people

The model they've used as the crashed probe was probably the most costly element of entire episode.
And yeah, that was definitely one of the worst episodes of SG-1, if not just whole Stargate franchise. But hey, they could then blow the saved money on season finale, so it was worth it.

I was always pissed off the 302's and Battleships they had never used energy weapons until the last season of SG1 and even then the Asgard had to give it to them.

Fucking slow ass missiles REEEEEEEEEEEEEE

tbqh, I prefer the aesthetics of the small railguns over energy weapons. Tau'ri ships warping in the middle of bad guys and shooting everything with two dozens railguns while shields tanked incoming fire looked classy as hell.

...

i can't belive that i don't have the webm of the deadelus blasting a whole bunch of wraith darts with missels

it was beautiful

The Super Nintendo game was kind of cool.

>5.7x25mm
>weapon of war

I definitely got what they meant but it is pretty funny how much they play up the p90.

I wonder if a p90 with AP rounds actually can saw through a log like they showed

Apparently it was easier to steal or build hyperdrives than the many many MANY guns covering motherships. Every time they tried to make an energy weapon of their own it never ended well, Of course they used to put the guy from the Red Green Show on those projects. Or made Doctor Lee showcase a faulty version at a science expo they were doing on purpose to help cover the fact that they had shit like working teleporters and FTL.

It's 50 armor-piercing rounds per box. Assuming you could keep it on target, it would probably be able to do that. It was a pretty small log.

It seemed like in stargate the number of energy guns didn't matter. It was how much juice you could slam into a single one. When the System Lords got better energy supplies, their ships got much more dangerous.

Thus, the Asgard one-shot beams, vs the trash the Ha'taks were shooting out.

The best weapon was still beaming nukes into things. It's kinda silly how fast the Wraith learned how to jam those.

How did such an awful movie spawn so many tv series?

All those staff shots should have somewhat weakened it, I guess...

If someone tries to adapt a game version finding out how to stat the staff weapons should be worse even than balancing the zat. Fortunately if that person wants a staff-aiming mechanic Stargate LOVES it's staff based weapons. Jaffa, the Ori's troopers, and even the damn Wraith had a stun staff. Frankly we could have done with some more variety. The most we had was the Priors using a fricking "magic" staff.

I would love an SG-1 skirmish game. The potential for great miniatures is immense, and you could have interesting terrain rules as the game would not be restricted to fighting on CanadianForestPlanet.

The Ori ships were the worst offenders until even the Wraith managed to overtake them. The Wraith themselves could be pretty bad against shields given their numbers and energy bolt spam. One of the benefits of having advanced your weird organic technology after a war with un-ascended Ancients, though a Hive ship powered by a ZPM absolutely raping shields was a bit much. I mean the Ori WERE ascended Ancients, after all.

GOOLD.

GOA'ULD.

We already have a setting that's half x-com, half SG. It's called Halflife.

"GOOLD"

Snake.

Different creative team. It certainly struggled later on when they seemed to have exhausted all their viable plots. I hated how often they rehashed the "ascended being defeats another ascended being by fighting for all eternity". If you're going to have a virtual god save the day, stop having them save the day in the same way. Atlantis really hit a rut, too, and frankly I think it failed to capitalize on a lot of it's more interesting plots and characters. Stargate Universe really struggled, it was such a tonal shift.

The series Dark Matter has a lot of the same creative talent and actors involved in SG-1, Atlantis, and Universe and frankly it's been pretty decent so far. It also looks like it would be an interesting setting for a tabletop game.

agreed. it seems that they lose main driving force by the end of season 8.

dat time machine...

>when they got the Asgard beam weapons and instantly BTFOd two Ori ships
>when the Asgard beam weapons just fucking smashed those Ancient Orion class warships apart like they were nothing

Hnnnggg. I love those grey little bastards.

>Supreme Commander Thor

They were too good for this wretched universe.

And they aren't even all dead, although the weird ass versions in the Pegasus Galaxy running around in their Master Chief armor was a tad odd.

Atlantis is actually getting a current comic "continuation" since those have been all the rage of late. Haven't read it, but I've been meaning to at least check it out.

How recent is that comic?
I remember some of the early Buffy one being rather nice.

The Vanir are still running around. There is also an ascended Asgard (she had hair!) from before they began cloning themselves into the ground. She actually became mortal again to try and help them correct the flaws in their genome, though she isn't sure it will work and also isn't sure if she'll ever be able to ascend again...for some reason.

Just started a few months ago. I think they're up to issue 3. The artwork isn't that great and I haven't read it so I cannot comment on the writing. I'll give it a go soon.

Oh yeah. I remember some SG comic, the art sucked mightily, especially known characters. The artist just sucked at drawing real people, I guess.

They were going to do some made for TV movies with Atlantis to at least get them back to Pegasus but the SG-1 films struggled. The last SG-1 film was cancelled along with the Atlantis ones and then they nuked Universe. Sad, but it had slipped so far it really wasn't worth it.

I don't know if this comic is using the proposed movie for Atlantis as it's basis or not.

The farscape comic continuation was pretty kickass, especially since the extreme development hell ANY return to that series has been in (including proposed webisodes) will surely never happen. I'm not 100% happy with the comics but they were better than nothing. Shame they had to rush to the close.

How hard can correcting their fucking genome be? The ancients could literally engineer humans willy nilly.

Explosive ammo is actually good ammo.
P90 is a surplus storage gun dumped to clear the armory backlog

SG1 is filled with gems like that

I never really liked that plotline. The way I understand it they'd been cloning themselves for so long their genetics somehow degraded. You'd think they'd have pretty damn complete genomic records of their species going back to their early stages, however apparently this wasn't enough. I think they were trying to preserve what they were and didn't want a downgrade, or somehow they'd been tinkering with themselves to the point that downgrading was no longer possible. I know they could never find a compatible species. Jack probably wasn't the best person to study, but since he was able to hold Ancient knowledge in his head for some time they felt he was as good a chance as any.

Nevermind that these are beings with teleporters that can literally be sued to create matter out of energy and they should be able to make perfect duplicates of themselves this way without having to bother with cloning vats. Just quantum the damn thing.

It's surely just plot based "because we say so".