Find brigands who assaulted our party and killed our hireling on the road hanging in some tavern in nearby town

Wizards can't heal and divine and arcane lists are very different.

The question is; How would the guard even know what a fucking paladin is? I hate this thing when a class is a 'thing' in game.

Priests can heal, and they can lie. Rangers can heal and they can lie, heck stupid bards can too

Let alone which spell lists all these groups can use.

>rando guard knows what a paladin is
knowledge religion DC 10 from this 10 INT warrior
>rando guard is aware of that particular part of the paladin code
knowledge religion DC 15 from this 10 INT warrior
>rando guard can distinguish a paladin from a cleric, who is under no such obligation to not lie
knowledge religion DC 20 from this 10 INT warrior

This is all assuming
>you are not an illusionist
>you are not a paladin as well as one the various other classes that heals/does exactly what paladins do, and therefore can be a paladin, lie, and still do a miracle

You are only slightly better than a normal eye witness. If you can get the local paladin order to vouch for you, then that goes up. If this region dislikes magic users, you are WORSE than a normal eye witness.

Bottom line, that isn't really adequate.

Also, how the bleeding Hell is a guard going to know that. He most likely doesn't even know what a paladin is.

>If this region dislikes magic users, you are WORSE than a normal eye witness.

I could understand a region hating arcane magic users and distrusting their accounts, but you're never going to run across a nation in a fantasy setting that dislikes the god-appointed magic users.

Someone in my group once played a bard/blackguard like this. Except they had enough social skills to convince guards.

What's a "paladin"?

>cleric, who is under no such obligation to not lie
Lawful good clerics should lose their powers for lying.

But neutral good clerics can have lawful good gods. And for all the guard knows you could secretly be CE and pretending to worship a LG god

So the point is, if rando guard won't help, go see his boss?

When we were last playing fantasy, knight had decree of authority that he could prove himself with. Was helpful on plenty of occasions. At the very least even if the hoodlums you're dealing with can't read they will recognize the seal of local baron.

Yes, with this exception the DM definitely a shit. Agree, quite a bit of supposing, though.

There are very few prerequisites to be a paladin, to my knowledge. You CERTAINLY don't need to be a formal knight. And what it means to be a formal knight is highly variable, regardless.

>cleric, who is under no such obligation to not lie
A) that really depends on the god
B) how can a guard tell a LG cleric from a CN cleric? again, using some healing magic suggests you could be anything from a LG paladin to a CN oracle to a NE bard.

Just because you arent lying doesn't mean you are correct.
For all those guards know, you barely saw the brigands, and you see this guy sitting in a tavern wearing the same hat as one of them, and your emotionally distraught brain makes a false connection

ITT:

>Find brigands who assaulted my entourage and killed my escort on the road hanging in some tavern in nearby town
>Guards! Those guys are highwaymen and they murdered my men!
>"What proof have you?"
>I'm the duke who owns these lands and you're compelled to obey me
>"HA! We need better proof than that!"
>Proof of what? Proof that I'm the duke? Here, let me produce my heraldic badge, on the spot, demonstrating that I'm indeed who I claim to be
>As in like, this seal has been passed down from father to son since my line was founded
>"That proves nothing of your case!"
>Okay, let's ignore for a second that I am capable of proving that I'm the rightful lord of these lands with a wave of my hand and am therefore required obedience from you, does the fact that I am providing an eyewitness report from the perspective of a man of noble blood carry no weight in this investigation?
>"Stupid noble no proof hurr hurr hurr"

But how would the guards know what the duke looks like?

How would they know what his family device is?

How would they know what a nobleman is?

How would they even know what color the sky is?

What if they're feeling especially rebellious that day?

What if one of them has a wart on his balls?

>There are very few prerequisites to be a paladin, to my knowledge. You CERTAINLY don't need to be a formal knight.
Our setting didn't have paladins at all. My point was more along the lines that having some official writ could be helpful with proving your authenticity.

>not dispensing justice upon the enemies of good yourself
What kind of paladin are you?

>DM *is* kinda a shit.
You know, this is the whole problem here.

>guards

>nobleman = a particular kind of mage
peasants have to know what mages are
peasants generally know fuck all about magic

Typical procedure in the middle ages:

1. Person makes an accusation
2. Brought before the lord (or the church, depending on circumstances).
3. Guilty until proven innocent. Relying mostly on eyewitness testimony.
4. If proven innocent, the one who bore false witness gets punished severely
5. If the lord can't decide, there may be a fight to the death or somesuch.

6. If all else fails, start bidding for innocence.

>never going to run across a nation in a fantasy setting that dislikes god-appointed magic users

Well fatguys, seems like we have a job to do

Just punch them and their friends to the ground. They're being that obtuse, they might as well be in league with the highwaymen.

It seems stranger that there are all these deities across the world with so many champions running around who specifically fight and act (often very publically) on the terms set by their god's code and no one's settled on a word for all of them in stories and documentation.

What about 'paladin'?

Wow, that was a standing leap into that.

What the fuck does "rando" mean?

Dude, just torture the men until they sign a confession, or if the guards won't accept that, make the thugs undergo an ordeal, trial by fire (where they must press their buttocks three times upon a red hot plough share's metal blade) or by boiling water (where they must sit three times with their bare asses in a pot of boiling water) are generally good because you can basically severely injure the trhugs and then leave them in the care of the guards who have to work out whether the resulting injuries from the ordeal are severe enough to mark them as guilty.

You know, get medieval on their asses..

(witnesses and oath are the other main ways to detirmine guilt - in a fantasy setting with magical paladins you basically hold a holy symbol or book and make the men swear an oath upon punishment by the holy symbol's respective diety that they are innnocent, and if not they'll likely be punished or get fucked up in some way if they're lying, or have the rest of your party attest to the murder.)

OW, the reddit!

Random

...

Why omiting the last "m"? For what purpose? They already went on a lenghty paragraph, so it's not to save space.

But that also covers Cleric, or fighter/mage or a bunch of other stuff. And how many DnD paladins are there likely to be realistically in a world? Not a whole lot. Also not all Paladins even have gods

>Making someone swear on a holy symbol means they'd be divinely punished on the spot

>Because that is borderline meta-gaming, lad.

Fucking how? Would it be borderling meta-gaming to wave a sword in someone's face and say you could them with it too?

Lot of fucking cuntrarian fags in this thread.

>People disagree with me
>They must just contrarians
Don't get mad that people are pointing out your roleplaying skills are subpar.

he did imply that in that setting if a paladin lies he can't use his divine powers, yet he clearly used them so he can't be lying.

They just impugned the honour of a knight of *insert god here*.

This constitutes blasphemy, and their sentence is also death.

This is how I "Lawful Good"

Does the paladin not have a direct damage causing spell?

I guess the paladin could attack them with magic, but that would require a bluff check, no?

Nope, just get them to start saying the oath and then hit them with the holy book.

random = adjective
rando = noun

exmaple: "he's a rando"

like a friendo

>"Why did you hit him with a book?, Was that god's will"
>"Why aren't you answering me?"
>"You're just sitting there"
keked at that filename tho

The gaurds think its ridiculous because some random guy walks into a bar and says that some other patron is a highwayman, and then claims he "cannot lie". Just because a paladin can't lie in the setting doesn't mean that

A. The gaurds know that
B. Could feasibly lie about being a paladin

If a police officer arrested someone and threw them straight into prison without a trial because he saw the perp commiting the crime (and the perp did commit the crime), he couldn't say he did it because he "cannot lie" (as a police officer), and knows for sure that the perp is guilty. That isn't evidence. And even if it was taken in as evidence by the guards in this setting, just like every legal action in the world there is some form of trial. Some trials are more fair than others, but generally speaking, one piece of evidence still leaves enough reasonable doubt in a legal arbiter's mind that he cannot in good conscience persecute the man in question. Furthermore op's presented case could be easily thrown out if the highwayman suggests that the paladin is simply mistaken and that they are probably looking for another guy. If this is infact true (which its not) not only is the Paladin not activley lying by the Highwayman is also innocent.

Op if you seriously believe that being able to tell the "absolute truth" from your perspective immediatley grants itself as evidence, go to a courtroom with an wristband that tells if what you think you are saying is true, and testify. Wait a second, I just realized that people in courts are ALREADY SWORN TO TELL THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH. So even in real life, when someone claims that they are telling the absolute truth that a defendant is guilty in a courtroom, the defendant may still get off innocent. How are you ignorant of basic legal skills you can't even comprehend that?

Wew
>you're the chosen champion of a god that isn't the patron god of this nation
>your pantheon is too old/new for our culture
>the Duke has banned worship of your god due to a group of their worshippers attempting to usurp him
>omens pointing to your god being angry for the last decade have been brewing and have increased in momentum as you arrived
All good hooks for antagonising the party holy man that doesn't break fantasy genre

'Cause you could've been a cleric. They can lie and keep their powers. Also you were metagaming hard so fuck you deal with it bitch.

If it were me I'd strip you of your powers for refusing to cooperate with the justice system like your paladin code "LITERALLY" forces you to.

>Stripping someone of powers for disagreeing with a guard
Jesus you're an awful GM, even worse than the whiny paladin.

Don't project your butthurt for your GM onto me, OP.

I'm clearly a different user, seeing as I called the paladin whiny, but you're either too stupid to have noticed, or more likely you like acting in the most caustic way possible, but lack the wit to do it in a somewhat unique manner.

Very Gygaxian of you

Hey, in a world where good and evil are outlined in black and white, it's a pretty intuitive decision to make.

Divine Mandate > Temporal Authority

>I'll pretend I'm not OP to make it look like someone else agrees with me.

OP, please.

I'm actually a little curious why people act as retarded as you. It's clear I'm not the same person, you and I both know that, anyone reading what I wrote would know that, so I seriously want to know why you act like you knowing are retarded and are unable to understand basic English. It's not really trolling in anyway, it's not proving a point, so what exactly do you gain?
Are you just so pathetic and attention starved that anyone talking to you, even someone just pointing out how retarded your acting, makes you feel good and happy and cared for?
Again, I'm not even being sarcastic, it's just a thing I see a lot here, and never understood it.

wait.... weren't you this guy?

Don't forget the accused is tortured.

You should have just informed the guards at the town entrance that you are a Paladin of X Knightly Order; that you personally witnessed some men attack your party and kill a man in cold blood, you are looking for them, and that when you find them you will exact justice. Tell them they can help or clean up the mess when your done.

Being a Paladin is being the law as much as obeying it yourself.

Probably because a normal guardsman wouldn't give a fuck about your creeds or your gods unless they were his own.

>ctrl + f
>"duel"
>zero results

>hiding behind "the law" instead of enacting sweet justice
>paladin

If there exists no evidence other than your word, prove it with your body.

Actually there's a region in Golarion, pathfinder's setting, who does just that.

originally, royal guard. palace and paladin have the same roman origin.

We don't recognize your heathen God round these parts

Let's not forget there may not even be a standing police force or a "town guard" either; and even if there was one they'd probably be more on top of taxation/tolling or preventing fires rather than responding to complaints.

To even bring the accused to trial you usually had to round up your own posse of thugs to get him, but I doubt OP's game is that historical.

>why does my GMs keep insisting on these stupid "investigation" sessions that I should be able to completely bypass by invoking divine authority in any internally consistent setting?
Because your GM is still thinking in 21st century logic and sensibilities, rather than the more appropriate 12th century.

It's a more common problem than you might think.

OP is failing at something most people learn before they hit 10 years old.

Other people don't possess the same information as you. Even if you aren't lying and know your information to be correct other people do not.

The guard could take your word for it and just straight up arrest the highwaymen, but presumably acting as a rational human being he is going to want some kind of proof before taking any action further than notifying his superiors.

A guard is not necessarily an investigator, a guard's jurisdiction lies within whatever he is guarding. Town guard guards a town. You cannot reasonably expect a random beat cop on the street to investigate a murder that occurred a county over even when the suspect is within his jurisdiction, even when you are physically pointing at the person who committed the crime.

Why does being a paladin mean everyone has to take your word at face value? If anything a paladin SHOULD do his best to present evidence in accordance with the requirements of the law.

Strange that you picked the century right at the beginning of one of the largest reorganization of legal systems in Europe and widespread re-adoption and modernization of Corpus Juris Civilis, the very fucking foundation of Western legal tradition culminating in the Common law and Civil law systems prevalent in the secular world today.

You literally picked the one fucking century where "21st century logic and sensibilities" were becoming the norm in justice in western and central Europe outside of the Canon Law of the Catholic church, and the parts that retained Norman and Visgothic traditions.

What the hell, man.

That's pretty dumb, but for myriad more reasons than you're upset about.

In a typical fantasy setting, a Paladin would hold more social weight than some random vagrants dressed. Assuming that you all look the part for your roles, a guy walking around in shiny fullplate would just command more respect than a bunch of guys in fur hats and leathers. They'd probably take your intent as honest.
Even so, unless you're living in a particularly cut throat setting (which in a medieval setting is entirely possible and would invalidate this next point), that's not how prosecution works. They would still want proof, and unless you were already a well known and established hero or nobleman of the community that you are specifically turning these men into, the guards aren't just going to do what you say regarding them.
However, they still would have taken the brigands in for questioning, or held them prisoner while awaiting evidence, at least for a couple days, because hey, these are potential highwaymen, you can't just leave that shit running around. So at the very least they'd hold them for a few days to look for evidence before letting them go -- which, incidentally, the DM could have spun as an excuse for you to actually go look for evidence, giving you a neat little sidequest. But he didn't.

So basically you're both wrong.

>Bottom line, that isn't really adequate.
The paladin in question has a remarkably low melanine count in his skin.

It's not like anyone ever went to jail because somebody with a low melanin count said that they were the criminal. That straight up never happens.

>look for evidence
okay, here is the dead body. We saw them stab him. Case closed.

What "evidence" do you even need?

>the town guard is being unreasonable
>HURR DURR THAT'S UNREALISTIC TOWN GUARDS ARE FLAWLESS BASTIONS OF JUSTICE AND REASON

Whine harder, OP.

Except no self-respecting person would say friendo.

Except a sekusu-furendo

21st century logic wasn't a thing until late 1800s.

I love reading up on 16 century witch trials
>Accuse some asshole who knows the law
>Asshole throws together a appeal letter to the actual central authority(a full 3 weeks travel away from the place)
>6-7 weeks later, the central authority delegation arrives, frees him, and then do a re trial where he is freed
>Also purges local legal system for not bothing to read the law

>referencing game mechanics in-character
I hope those guardsmen fucked you like a young cleric woman who had previously been trapped in a staff, but was just released and turned down for sex.

Considering evidence in ye olde time was literally people saying "we think this guy is guilty" or "I don't think this guy is guilty", your GM has done some pretty poor research op.

I don't think paladins being incapable of lying for their own benefit is strictly a game mechanic.

>I'm a holy warrior guys. I literally cannot tell a lie.
>I'll even perform a small miracle if you don't believe me.

well how the fuck are some random guardsmen supposed to know that? Even if there is this general sentiment that Paladins can only use their power if they aren't lying, how does anyone who isn't a Paladin themselves going to be able to confirm that claim? For all they know it could be just some bullshit Paladins make up to give their claims more credit.

>a medieval fantasy setting has to mirror every aspect of medieval Europe

Your argument is basically "if chainmail, then shitty legal system", which is unsustainable.

For this to be accepted as true the Paladin class has to exist as a game artifact in-setting

Knowledge: Religion check.

>Wizards can't heal and divine and arcane lists are very different.
I bet every guardsman has read the players handbook.

Its too early in history for widespread atheism, user

Being an ordained agent of the church would mean that you are highly respected and are considered to have honor beyond reproach in most normal circumstances.

>Its too early in history for widespread atheism
Show me YFW you realize that you were born to late for the Hellenistic period.

>dnd takes place in the hellenistic period
Only in your shitty homebrew

Lawful neutral guards.

Chaotic Evil guards.

If they were shown the body and rejected the eyewitness testimony of a holy knight, I would immediately assume they were being paid by the bandits to turn a blind eye.

this intrigue intrigues me.

You're right. It never happens.

>Implying a lawful neutral person would even consider anything "holy" without further investigation and bureaucracy.

In a fantasy setting, at least few classes would definitely be well defined things in game. Like wizards, clerics, druids, and paladins.

Obviously magic can't enter the court of law, else the whole process would be jeopardized by mercenary wizards forging proofs or "proving" the innocence of their protegèes.
Go find some real proof and we'll talk, "paladin".