Why bother making new Chandra cards when they are all exactly the same?

>any other Chandra ever

?

Yes, any other Chandra ever or is this your first block?

Wow it's almost like the abilites a planeswalker has are restricted by the color pie.

Every Chandra has always been
+1 Do tiny damage
-2 Do ok damage
-X Do more damage to everybody

Red is more than damage, and even if Chandra is burn burn burn they could have been a little more original

>makes creatures as a + instead of the standard damage
>wheels
>board wipe
what the actual fuck are you talking about.

Not exactly true, but I get your point.

To be fair, that + ability is just a shitty form of damage that can be blocked.

It's really not.
>impact tremors
>sac effects
>"fight target creature"
>equipment
>literally anything else that is affected by creatures being made or dying

Oh, I forgot.
>>>>>>CREW

Color restriction doesn't mean they all have to be the same mechanicly. Koth is a very well designed and very red planeswalker and is very different from all over R walkers.
Have some shit I threw together in like 5 minutes.
Designing a unique red walker isn't hard. The issue is Wizards is restricted by Chandra's character. She is literally just, "rawr fire lawl xD".

Planeswalkers aren't limited just by their colors, they have character limitations. They learned that from Liliana of the Dark Realms, which is not in flavor of Lili at all, but is still very black.

I think the real problem is that if they did turn out to be competitive viable they would sell out fast and the price would be increased. We've had competitive cards in intro packs before but imagine a competitive walker. It would be like the BfZ fatpack issue, which alienates the potential new players and just rewards the gross practices of the market.

>neat addition

No, it's blatant kikery of the worst kind. They could just include the powerful walkers in the intro packs but NOOOOOO they have to protect the price of expensive cards.

>$25 for a single planeswalker

Wizards literally guarantees that with the creation and inclusion of shitty variant walkers.

>No, it's blatant kikery of the worst kind. They could just include the powerful walkers in the intro packs but NOOOOOO they have to protect the price of expensive cards.
They need money to print this shit. I don't like the idea of chase rares but it works and keeps them in business to keep retailers ordering more product.

As for including chase rares as intro products, you get a buyout situation since intropacks are sold in places like target and walmart and then jacked up in prices elsewhere making the item harder to find and more expensive creating a wall for everyone and in return backfiring on the idea of what intro decks are supposed to do and introduce new players for a cheap cost.

Wizards are jews but this shit is leaps and bounds better than what we've been getting as intro decks as of late. Did you see the fucking intro packs for Shadows over Innistrad, nigga? I'm not even sure if they returned profit on those fucking things.

>They need money to print this shit.

Does anyone have information about the cost to manufacture versus the secondary market prices? Dude, the cards cost pennies to produce and get marked up 1,000%.

An intro pack buyout? Really is there any chance of, or precedent for, such an event? Especially if a chase rare is included in intro packs and booster packs. Look at what happened to Geist of Saint Traft.

>Really is there any chance of, or precedent for, such an event?

Umezawa's Jitte was in the Betrayers of Kamigawa preconstructed deck.

The Ravnica: City of Guilds Selesnya precon was innately so good that all you had to do was buy two of them, remove the bad cards, and you'd be left with a deck that was competitive at the time.

There is absolutely precedent.

Planeswalkers have identities that define what they can do. Chandra is the fire mage that deals damage. You won't see her interacting with artifacts because Daretti is the red planeswalker that does that, for example.

I said "the Betrayers" deck, I meant "a" deck. Namely, Rats' Nest.

wizards.com/magic/displaythemedeck.asp?set=bok&decknum=3

You could not find this deck anywhere once the power of Jitte was realized.

For that matter, TWO Skullclamps could be found in the Transference theme deck from Darksteel:

wizards.com/magic/displaythemedeck.asp?set=darksteel&decknum=4&lang=en

In fairness, you're referencing decks that contain cards which were admittedly broken beyond reason.

Jitte can exist in a format other than Vintage, it isn't broken beyond reason, just extremely powerful.

Skullclamp is absolutely insane however, and they knew it late in development.

I don't think the inclusion of the good version of Chandra would have the same kinds of ridiculous, unintended consequences.

The point is, however, that it is entirely possible for powerful cards to slip on by R&D, and it is not beyond precedent at all for those cards to find their way into preconstructed decks.

>and they knew it late in development.

But, in fairness, only after it was too late to do anything about it, thanks to the vagaries of printing.

Will they do a full cycle of each mono colored jacetice league planeswalker with 4 abilities? They already did jace and chandra.

Yeah, it was a shame they caught it so late.

And odd, I mean it's pretty broken at first glance really.

I wasn't arguing that. It's just a continuation of the NWO let's make sure the newbies don't get confused with complex mechanics thing.

Remenber this is about red in general's one noteness, not strictly chandra's alone.

A shame the Jace was a lot better and more fun than the Chandra.

This article explains how Skullclamp happened:

magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/skullclamp-we-hardly-knew-ye-2004-06-04

Basically, here's the original version:

>Suicide Sweater
>3
>Artifact - Equipment
>When equipped creature is put into the graveyard from play, draw two cards.
>Equip 2

Several other, equally unremarkable versions were tried out, but they were all, again, unremarkable. When the final version was set to be playtested, the playtesters remembered the previous versions and didn't think anything of the new version due to a priori bias against it.

>let's make sure the newbies don't get confused with complex mechanics

This appears to be a shameless deception! Wizards is trying to sell objectively inferior cards to newbies, cards which are Standard legal, under the guise of rules simplicity. Do they expect kids and teenagers to receive Planeswalker decks, lose badly at FNMs and then proceed to shell out more money for the more powerful cards? That's disgusting.

>As for including chase rares as intro products, you get a buyout situation since intropacks are sold in places like target and walmart and then jacked up in prices elsewhere making the item harder to find and more expensive creating a wall for everyone and in return backfiring on the idea of what intro decks are supposed to do and introduce new players for a cheap cost.
Fucking bullshit.That thing accidentally happened with Umezawas Jitte in Betrayers of Kamigawa. Because of the fast buyout of the decks including that card, more Jittes were printed. Imagine which price this card had without that, even that it is banned in most formats.

>Dude, the cards cost pennies to produce and get marked up 1,000%

This is the fault of the secondary market, not Wizards.

>Because of the fast buyout of the decks including that card, more Jittes were printed

This seems suspicious and unlikely to be true (unless you mean relatively recent reprintings in FtV: Lore), and doesn't address other problem cards, like Skullclamp, which I know for a fact did not have happen.

>An intro pack buyout? Really is there any chance of, or precedent for, such an event?
Not an intro pack, but Commander 13 had a shining example in the Grixis deck.

>2 Chandra and 2 Nissa cards.
>Instead of printing more walkers who haven't shown up and could be just visiting the plane, not interfering with the story.

It's like they don't understand the concept of overexposure. As much as they're trying to play the Avengers game they don't stop to think we had only seen Iron Man twice in half a decade before The Avengers, not EVERY SINGLE YEAR and now MULTIPLE TIMES A YEAR!.

If you don't think there's going to be an "oops we mis-calibrated power levels everyone buy this planeswalker deck RIGHT NOW" when the first batch of these comes out, you're delusional.

They're going to have some feature in these fucking things to make everyone want them.

That's literally, 100% false. Wizards has supreme authority over card quality. They knowingly print cards with qualities and in quantities that predictably result in huge markups.

You mean like the standard legal "Tutor for a Chandra/Nissa card in your deck"?

It's going to specifically tutor for that version of Chandra/Nissa though

Red can't do anything except deal damage.

This can't be solved just by printing enough packs?

I'm actually also really disappointed in this. I thought that Planeswalker packs would let new players get their hands on the chase rares of each set and let them break into Standard without blowing loads of money by making the intro packs playable. Instead, it's looking like they've intentionally nerfed them for players who won't know any better. I can't see any other reason for them to do this besides money-grabbing.

Okay jesus christ I was thinking they are releasing these in the set itself so I had the chance of getting shit nissa and shit chandra instead of their superior counterparts when I get a box.

They'd just be devaluing their own product for trying to get new customers and those new customers wouldn't even know if it was that great or not.

But there would also be regular players buying the product, too. Add in the price to design completely new cards just to be bad, and you're telling me they'd be losing money to just cut the bullshit and put the already-made planeswalkers in the packs?

Then you run into a problem with players not wanting to buy actual packs because fuck the mystery game when I can just buy a intro pack with a chase rare that's been price hammered to a dollar and if I pulled that card in my actual boosters then I would be pissed.

Look at it this way, if you pulled an intro pack rare, you got fucked in the ass hard, now, you don't have to get fucked in the ass anymore because the intro pack exclusive cards aren't even part of the booster pack.

This is the best thing to happen to intro packs in a long time. No one fucking liked intro packs, not even new players because experienced players would be like fuck no don't be retarded and buy them. These new walker decks, despite being low in powerlevel, even have me interested in them because of how easy they are to use as a teaching mechanism to new players who have expressed interest in the game. They will probably include every card type which was something intro decks were lacking because there was no walker cards in them but these guys serve a useful purpose.

It's kind of amazing that everyone in this thread is getting mad about a product that they have always disliked because of how weak they've been in recent and now that they've shifted them into something more accessible but still focused on being weak for new player entry you guys are still mad about how they haven't persuaded you into buying them.

Nigga, they straight up said day one when they started talking about this product that the walkers were gonna be weak as fuck.
>I can't see any other reason for them to do this besides money-grabbing.
Well, the whole point of making this game is to make money. I do like these products though, they took a loathed product and made it a decent casual deck/learning device. I have a few friends who want to learn the game and all I have really is the 30 card decks given out at LGS, like 6 fatpack boxes worth of random cards, and EDH decks. This is a good inbetween from the 30 card decks and building an actual deck because suddenly the teaching experience to learn basic mechanics and phases with the 30 card deck now moves into working with a full deck and then eventually into building your own full deck.

nope, the "bad" ones are meant for intro players to get their feet wet in magic mechanics(like how to use planeswalkers) without flooding the market with stuff we actually want to play with/use without paying arm and a leg for it T-T

I should be clear, the bad ones are the only ones you can be sure of getting should you buy the box. otherwise you'll have to cough up 50 + to get one or get lucky and pull them from packs.