Thrallherds have no alignment restrictions

I'd like to add that you can get Knowledge (psionics) training through the Knowledge Devotion feat from Complete Champion. Even without high intelligence, you may as well since you can also use it to get a bonus to your attack rolls.

I just realized though...

...You also need Psicraft skill training to get Practiced Manifester! That could be a problem.

I got it!

Ask the GM for a psionic option for the Apprentice feat from DMG II and take that at level 1. Use that to get training in Knowledge (psionics) and Psicraft.
Take a flaw from Unearthed Arcana and pick up Inquisitor. Take a couple more flaws just so you can make sure to get the feats Crusaders need.
Put 4 ranks in Psicraft and pick up Practiced Manifester at level 3.
Get 8 ranks in Knowledge (psionics).
At level 6, you can take a one level dip in Thrallherd. Use your White Raven maneuvers to optimize the shit out of this.

America

/thread

I actually had a thrallherd cultist whose nihillism stemmed from how weird thrallherd was.

You can have your paladin follower murder his mother, and he'll do it, and he'll fall, and he won't even be in this weird hypnotic state he just will because you said so. And you can then have him kill himself, and he will do it, just cause you said so.

And someone else will take his place in like a month. And if everyone else in the group is replaceable for no reason, what about him?

You become a nihillist when your entire power is "Everyone is dispendable and who they are dont matter"

Well there's always the option of playing a thrallherd that doesn't realize what they're actually doing to those people

And if you want to get extra silly...
Having a manifester, even without levels in a psionic class, qualifies you for Psicrystal Affinity. Take that at level 6 when you get your Thrallherd level.

Your Psicrystal's hit dice are equal to yours. Your Psicrystal also gains feats as it gains hit dice (one at level one, and another at every third level) so you can give your Psicrystal three feats.

Being level 6, you could give your Psicrystal the Leadership feat.

So you're a Kalashtar Crusader 5/Thrallherd 1 with a bunch of thralls, and a psicrystal with its own cohort. And you can use White Raven maneuvers to buff everybody.

> "Those who follow me do so out of the knowledge that justice is not attained through idle hands. I do not question why they come to aid me; instead, I ask why others have stayed behind."
> "I see your thoughts, and they are impure. Come, let me help you cleanse them."
> "You ask yourself if you have the strength to fight this evil. Lean on my strength instead."
> "The gods have seen fit to grant me these abilities. If I am unworthy, I pray they shall strip them from me."
> "Those who cannot think have no use for fear. Without fear, evil is robbed of its greatest strength. Every thrall made is a hammer blow against evil."
> "Penance requires action. Others would kill my thralls for their misdeeds, for they could never be trusted to hold to the ways of law and goodness; instead, I give them a chance to serve a greater justice than they could ever know. And with the passage of time, when my will becomes theirs, perhaps true atonement can come at last."
> "My legion is a better teacher than any prison. What cannot be taught through pain is taught through love."

Allowing flaws is like the first indicator someone should have their DM license pulled

Shit, I might follow this guy myself.

How would you guys stat a Thrall NPC class?

I'm thinking...

Proficiency with simple weapons, shields, and
light armor
Full BAB
d8 hit dice
Poor Will and Reflex saves
Good Fortitude saves
Gains psionic powers and power points at the same rate as Psychic Warriors, but uses Intelligence instead of Wisdom to determine power points and selects powers from the Psion/Wilder power list.
Gains Thrall Bred (from Lords of Madness) as a bonus feat, and the Share Powers and Telepathic Link supernatural abilities while they are within 30 feet of their special charge.
Class skills: Concentration, Craft, Profession, Climb, Jump, Swim, Handle Animal, Ride

Naw, just give the NPC's flaws. It balances out.

I imagine it's like being a Lord in Fire Emblem. People just sort of gravitate to your side and will die for you after a short conversation.

Though being Fire Emblem NOBODY IS ALLOWED TO DIE.

He uses his minions for good, telling the scum of the Earth that they too can be heroes if instead of murdering people they lend them a hand.

I agree with every part of that post.

t. save-scumming pansy

Builds communities and encourages empathy
Makes communism actually fucking work
Takes care of their thralls and believers, and their extended family/emotional support networks etc
Leads expeditions to new and exciting worlds
Won't order anything that they wouldn't do themselves
Has no idea that they're a Thrallherd and just try to lead as best they can
Randomly goes on sojourns alone and vanishes, only to return with new and greater revelations
Examines their own abilities to find ways to release people or only 'call' those who really need it
Never get around to actually finishing Conduit

...

I usually play two files at once. One where I live with the consequences, and one where I save scum as much as needed.

Nephenee a best

Nepenee a shit

For reasons I do not understand Vanessa is my EmblemFu, even though so many girls do the "female knight" thing better.

Not that user. Alright, who do you prefer then?

In 3.5, you need flaws for a bunch of concepts to come online before 12. It improves the baselin competency of characters, which is good, because a bunch of classes are pretty incompetent as baseline at low levels.

You don't. Thralls are classed NPCs like cohorts are. Followers are NPC classed normal people.

Because every other run she doesn't get RNG fucked and becomes a mobile death fortress.

Something like Ragman.

I'm thinking... 'tard wrangler. Coaches his dumb misshapen brutes in life skills and learning when NOT to fight. Until it's time to fight, of course. Then he just points them in the right direction and watches them hulk out.

I allow flaws with the stipulation that they are incorporated into the roleplay or are actual flaws that impact the character. If it looks fishy I ask them to show me how it impacts them and hold a quick test RP.

I like flaws because they can lead to interesting situations and its fun to watch the players overcome their disabilities.

This immediately reminds me of Overlord.

>I warped your mind to make you love me!
>But I love you, what is the problem?

trash.

Check out the "A" Game Paladin build, it manages to get +4 bard song which is a significant boost to this build concept. You may not want to use Illumian, however, so you just ignore the spellcasting.

>America
>Lawful
>Good

Not till it starts following it's own rules
t. Texas

Shouldn't you be forcing your children to learn creationism in school or something texas?

That would violate the 1st amendment, pigfucker

But user, this is a Christian nation.
:^3

>"Separation of church and state" - the founding fathers
>"My kingdom is no part of this world" - Jesus

You know what we do with traitors and heretics arounds these parts, user?

Why is Thrallherd so based?

There are enough natural subs in life it's hard to think it's just fetish bait.

Does headpat simulator have any hand holding?

So a LG Thrallherd gives his thralls pancakes, while a CE one gives them sandwiches?

I'm still kind of waiting for someone to take the refrence of god out of the pledge and money again, but of course if you complain about it people will just say "BUT IT DOESN'T REFERENCE CHRISTIANITY SPECIFICALLY SO IT'S TOTALLY COOL TO KEEP THAT EVEN THOUGH WE ONLY PUT IT IN BECUASE COMMIES IN THE 60'S!"

ree and all that jazz

What was wrong with E Pluribus Unum?

not enough jesus

See becuase the Russians were seen as anti-theists so we decided that we were gonna try to put god in everything because we couldn't be secular if they were gonna be secular or the world would explode, possibly literally.

Lets be honest, America is one of the most Theocratic Nations outside of the Middle East or the Vatican, let's not forget one of the two major parties has said they said, as a part of their platform that "religion must be used as guide for legislation" and "teaching the bible in public schools".

They also want "pornography declared public menace" but that is neither here nor there.

>From Many, One.
Isn't that the perfect Thrallherd motto?

I'm sick of it to be quite honest. I personally think anyone who says that they decided to go into politics because they heard a voice from god tell them to should be barred from the contest on grounds of insanity.

I have nothing against religious people, but that's just fucking nuts.

I'm not 'murrican myself, but I say that if you people have Jesus as an integral part of your traditions, you should keep him there. If for nothing else, then to keep Allah away.

But they don't believe it, they just say that to seem more relatable to crazy people.

Give them a Megachurch and millions in donations?

What about the ones who go into politics because they heard a voice from a Thrallherd?

Tard wrangler isn't much of a stretch, they already exist in real life.

...

>They also want "pornography declared public menace" but that is neither here nor there.
The american views on sex have been spiraling off into insanity ever since the first wave of feminism. Making whores illegal is just stupid.

>implying the incarnation of satan on earth who mind controlled people into writing books to create religious wars was LG

But yet, your betraying the original foundations America was founded on a separation of church and state because of the many wars that were started in Europe because of it. England also used the US has a dumping ground for religious and political nutcases at the time.

>used as a dumping ground
Odd, they sure didn't make it seem that way when they tried to take back the U.S.

If it was just a dumping ground, you think they would have wanted Australia back.

Impossible.

The twisted grasping soul of these individuals is stained blacker than night by their works, no matter their other deeds. They need to come to The Iron Maiden and find peace in penance.

>Ardarvia Victrix

Oh come now, plenty of people have an urge to serve and let someone else handle the hard parts, just like plenty of people quite enjoy the responsibilities.
And then both sides enjoy the perks of the relationship.

How can you have a Dragon without some loyalty and will to serve.

He gives the lost and the broken a purpose, a guiding hand. Those who had nowhere to go and nothing to live for suddenly find themselves satisfied serving this complete stranger, who directs them in various ways that serve to make the world a better place. They have no idea why they find doing these good deeds so rewarding now, when such efforts in the past turned to ash upon their tongue, but they've finally found contentment.

Neat, thanks!

I prefer T3-only campaigns, but the guys I usually play with like the more familiar classes. Any ACF's I can find that can step up class tiers would be great for them.

I mean... you can't argue with that logic can you?

Didn't know about the Thrallherd before this but I am rolling a lvl5 bullshit custom Psion/lvl1 Thrallherd now.

[Spoiler]I'm the forever DM and she always pull this shit with rogues and dumb races when she plays, so yes I am vindictive and petty :([/spoiler]

You can also do this with a Wilder 5 if you take Hidden Talent for the Mindlink power, or use the Kalashtar race.
Wilders use Charisma to determine their pool of power points, and Thrallherds need Charisma to determine the number and level of their followers. So, you can play a Wilder 5/Thrallherd for less MAD.

I recommend a custom character who is a thrallherd from level 1.

Ironically, you could do this as a follower of a Lawful Evil god as well.

Acting as an agent of the state, which is also the church, you sieze them to be used to labor in compensation of their crimes for the people.

I mean, you're not going to be directly helping them, but you will be helping the state/church and that's ultimately of more value than whatever they lost.

In fact, I would probably Thrall the mayor or whoever was in charge. Citizens and their belongings are all property of the State that the merely have licenses to operate. After all, the State gave it to them in the first place, and they owe the LE God for their very existence, and the State is just an extension of his will on Earth so that we don't rack up any more debt by making him get involved.

And they've gone and let damage come to the States assets, and let harm come to the Worshippers of the Church. Who's going to reimburse the LE God of the miracles of healing? Not the dead people, because of your failure they actually died before they could pay back what they owed for use of the States assets, and while their soul returning to the LE god balances out that debt, he also owns the State so there's some left over.

So it ISN'T enough to remove him for incompetence, he now has to pay those debts. Not just for the State, but also for the souls of those he failed.

LE is best alignment.

I'm pretty sure that's just Lawful Neutral.

The real best alignment.

No, Neutral would allow for restitution to be made back to the individuals. The key part is that because the Church and the State are the same thing, there's no ultimate separation of obligation.

That, and you're born *owing* the God for your very existence, and you aren't able to actually own anything because you're just leasing everything from the State so you have to pay THEM back first. Of course, you don't generate anything by maintaining the Status Quo, so you have to show measurable and tangible improvement to the assets that you have leased from the State and are in your Care.

And that's before we factor in the additional costs you have to the state above and beyond repaying the debt of the State letting you lease their assets.

You gotta pay back the State for the order it provides, for the infrastructure it maintains, for the wonders it builds in glory of God, for the protection of the military.

How you gonna do that? I hope you're not going to try and sell the States production back to it, like some shifty grifter. There's a SPECIAL punishment for that.

Personal transactions are forbidden, because you're primary debtor is the State and the God, whose representative is the State. So failure to produce isn't just you being a burden on everyone else, but also a moral failing.

This is where the necromancy comes in. After you have died, you can still continue to toil to pay the remainder of your debt to the state.

All your God wants is for you to be the best you can be, to help others and stand tall as a true man, not as an equal to God but at least being capable of distinguishing your existence as having worth, as opposed to animals and poor Heathens that cripple themselves by refusing to pay their debts.

Actually, even your death and all your worldly accomplishments can never pay the God back truly, because it still all comes ultimately from him. But he's nice enough to let the attempt count. Towards it.

I mean, after your undead corpse has finished the remainder due you left at death, he'll just absorb your soul and take the hit on the inevitable wear and tear that you put on it. Yes, he has to wait for your corpse to be laid to rest. Doesn't count unless the soul is bonded to it the entire time. Of course, for lower undead that means you're essentially trapped in your body while it performs its duties. Don't worry, it doesn't use your soul for fuel like some say, that's the Gods soul. Heathens, son.

His strength is infinite, as is his capacity to give, so he can afford it. Maybe one day people will advance far enough to not always be shorting him pennies on the soul, and he can actually be proud of them in themselves, instead of accepting that they're doing the best they can and being . . . proud . . of the effort, I guess.

TL;DR It's evil because everything is owed to the God, and not only are you unable to actually see any benefit from your own labour, but it's not ever going to be enough anyways.

The only way to get relatively ahead is to move up the hierarchy of the Church. You can't even actually backstab people, because God owns them too and you would be wrecking Gods shit. People that do that are called to account right quick, and converted into Undead (along with their victim. He has no rights to resurrection, that goes to God.)

Even then, that's just so you can stop sinking. There's no "afterlife", either you are reabsorbed and obliterated, or you prove yourself useful enough to be raised as a higher level undead. The top earners are actually rewarded by leasing a slice of divine power directly from God, and act as his living avatars to guide the undead flagellants, and to husband and shepard the shard so they can be a source for miracles and such instead of him. They're responsible for replacing it, and not by using State property like the souls of the peasants no matter how good a deal it seems. That's what Heathens are for.

All of that is about paying debts. It still sounds profoundly neutral, because no one is really exploiting the system except the supra-being that created everyone. And he can't exploit a system any more than a person can exploit the cells that make up his body.

Even original sin can be made mostly neutral-ish.

And if it seems like I'm handwaving with "Heathens" don't worry. God knows that their souls are also owed to him, and he understands that we are limited in what we can convince them to pay back.

War is bad, because it risks Gods citizens and Gods undead field workers. At best, you still have to use Gods miracles to heal people if you somehow manage to avoid casualties.

So the Church mostly works as a trade hub and financier. Undead armies aren't cost effective, but what they have found to be a reasonable compromise it to allow people who default on their debts to the State to instead act as bondsmen, and work under the supervision of the States "Southern Emerald Forest Corporation" for a period of indentured servitude. While labor is always an option, they tend to have their bad habits follow them and try as their supervisors might to set good examples of frugality and thrift, many of them spend excessive amounts of their income at the Company Store. Which has the silver lining of easing the burden on the State of providing for them, but it's still regretful that they struggle with their weakness.

Converting is an option, but surprisingly few take it, being unable to meet their obligations head on, and instead insisting on stopping once they repay the lesser temporal debts, refusing to accept that there is no real barrier between existence and God.

So the other option is to sign up for military service, with a clause that they are in service to God for the duration. So if they do die during service, while their bodies are lost, their souls are at least saved and put towards their debt.

A popular option, given the States aversion to war. True, there always do seem to be policing actions, repossessions and seizure of assets, but the State has only gone to war once in its existence and is devoted to peace and prosperity.

This is how you Lawful Good Thrallherd.

The "Evil" part comes in to play that the God claims to be responsible for everything. He's not. Sorry, I thought the whole "alignment rules" thing kind of implied that there were other Deities for the other alignments,.

And he has it set up so that nobody ever gets out. Death is only an escape when you are finally granted oblivion.

Nobody has any intrinsic value or worth. If I slight you, you aren't compensated, because the LE God comes in and says "Well, I fucking own you anyways, so instead you should focus on paying me back".

At best, you would get begrudging healing so you could be an effective producer again.

True, a lot of times there isn't a difference. Your house burns down, you have to rebuild a new one because that's God's house, you just have to eat the debt for the cost of it rebuilding it, and be fined for being negligent and failing your duty requiring the State to spend it's time and resources.

The best end you can get is being a Representative locked in to an unfavourable contract and devouring souls from heathens to sustain yourself, and even then if you aren't growing the divine shard you're falling behind, time ain't free.

It's not original sin, it's original sin with compounding interest.

I came up with it a couple threads ago when we were trying to make a LE god of Healing. Essentially mine was all about that, because it's just taking care of what he considers to be his stuff.

But if he saves your life, he charges you double your life. Because he feels you already owed him yours.

Fuck you I won't do what you tell me.

But that's okay, because Mr. Rodgers accepts is for who we are, and knows that not everyones path being the same doesn't mean they aren't all just as valuable.

Just so long as you are being the best person you can be, he's happy with that.

And that's why I would follow him through Hell and strife and back.

Man, I came into this thread expecting some happy mind control and munchkining.
I got religious debate and higher politics with a side of Noblesse Oblige.

Yeah, but that's a choice you make of your own volition not because of creepy ass mind control.

Hell, he would probably take you aside and get you to try to be more independent. Because that's how you grow. He wouldn't want you following him, but walking beside him as a friend.

That's because mind control is shit. It's boring as fuck, so you talk about the ethics and such that exist around it.

And that's what makes him LG rather than LN.

You are choosing to walk his path because it's the right thing to do.

But you are still walking his path.

And there is nothing wrong with that.

Is it easier for the thrallherd to be evil or good?

Evil.

But why? The good thrallherd will have more people because on average people lean more towards not liking evil.

they have the same number of people and spending any amount of time as a thrallherd with that amount of control over multiple folks tends to have a pretty massive corrupting influence on someone, absolute power and all that jizz

and course an evil thrallherd can justify using his thralls as the disposable meat puppets they are

>It's for your own good.

You aren't even trying are you?

Is there a 5e equivalent?

Necromancers can control a hundred-ish skellies if they want to.

That is... way too spooky.

youtube.com/watch?v=q6-ZGAGcJrk

Expanded Psionics Handbook, page 153
>A thrallherd who has just entered the
class sends out a subtle psychic call for servants, and that call is answered. Essentially, the character gains something akin to the Leadership feat (see page 106 of the Dungeon Master’s Guide), but with some important differences. Those who answer a thrallherd’s call are not referred to as cohorts and followers, but rather as thralls and believers, respectively. They do not appear because they admire the
character and want to serve her, but because a hidden psychic resonance connects the thrallherd and her servants

Player's handbook, page 43
>No one ever chooses to be a paladin. Becoming a paladin is answering a call, accepting one’s destiny. No one, no matter how diligent, can become a paladin through practice. The nature is either within one or not, and it is not possible to gain the paladin’s nature by any act of will.

Makes you wonder.

>Deities are just epic level Thrallherds