Alright, so, light to medium crunch episodic Cyberpunk Police game, in the vein of Ghost in The Shell...

Gurps is what I ran mine in
And it handled cthulu cults, meme tic viruses, and Leyland magic alongside the cyberware and gun porn
Ignore ultratech; acquire high tech.

Why is High Tech preferred to Ultra Tech?

So just the core rules + HT?

What about gurps cyberpunk?

four-colorstudios.com/the-department.html

UT works off certain assumptions that don't really make it as generic and universal as other books, it's kind of halfway between a genre book that helps you build a setting and an actual setting book.
Though with a cyberpunk, you should pick and choose a few of the techs in the book to use in your setting, but disregard like 90% of it.

Cyberpunk's a nice book, I'm sure you'll find plenty good stuff in. You'll unfortunately have to ignore or update any template, weapons and defenses you find, those changed quite a bit between 3e and 4th ed.
You also have the Cyberpunk Adventures and Cyberworld books if you want some more inspiration.

Neat. I'll check out the GURPS books, then;

Also, I've just remembered Cypher is also a thing, I wonder how well it would do gritty Cyberpunk.

>GURPS too crunchy.

Oh, this meme again!
My latest Pathfinder game was literally crunchier and rules/books-heavy than a similar GURPS game I've GMed previously. But it's ok because it's PF, of course.

Plus, PF's rules are mostly abstracted bullshit. GURPS' are grounded in reality and just plain make more sense.

Ghost in the Shell and NeoTokyo are very similar. Bladerunner is completely different.

I'd use Cyberpunk 2020. Drop the character classes, make the special skills become normal skills, let the players choose 10 skills that represent their profession, and you're good to go. If you like character classes then keep the game as it is and get Protect & Serve, that gives more detail about police work in the 2020's.

Main reason I'd choose CP2020 over GURPS is because it's a simpler system. Simpler also means more easily adaptable (converting and creating equipment is dirt simple).

And as the Savage World shills haven't shown up, yet, there's also Interface Zero.

OP here, I've played GURPS before, especifically the Hellboy RPG. It wasn't heavy on crunchy at all, just heavy on simulation, which is how I prefer it, really.

>more easily adaptable than the system that prides itself of being capable of running anything and nonsensical mashups
Dude.

I don't see how hacking a system I know nothing about is easier than using a system made for modularity, but I'm open minded.

Is there any way of learning the CP2020 system other than reading the atrociously organized rulebook?

I think the one I have here is the second edition.

It's more easily adaptable than GURPS because it's simpler (GURPS 3rd ed: 213 pages of basic rules plus 96 pages from GURPS Cyberpunk. Cyberpunk 2020: 175 pages of rules.). The fact that a given system is "universal" doesn't mean that it's simple. Mini Six is an universal and rule light system, GURPS is also universal but it's more complex. Cyberpunk's Interlock engine would be in between.

GURPS fanboys always get mad when you say that their favorite game is complicated. Why? It doesn't mean that the game is bad. It just means that it's more simulationist than some other systems.

If you're into serious crunch, GURPS is ok, but as OP wrote medium-crunch I'd recommend Cyberpunk 2020 or Savage Worlds - Interface Zero.

One major factor for successful DMing is being fluent with the system you use. If you're already versed in using GURPS and you enjoy it, then use it. Don't bother with a new system.

If you're curious or want to try a new game, Cyberpunk 2020 is an option. Savage Worlds is another one. And ExMachina for dX is pretty damn good, too. I'm not a CP2020 zealot who will tell you that there is only one possible game.

Cyberpunk is simple in the sense that while it has some crunch, the basics are simple. There are no feats/defects to take into account that would force you to read through your rulebook. Everything you need is written on the character sheet. Combat doesn't require accurate mapping. The most abstract part is netrunning (but let's face it, GURPS Cyberpunk's netrunning isn't any simpler).

I've already grabbed a copy of Interface Zero, and I'm going through it right now.

I'm interested in learning the CP2020 system, but the way the rules are presented in this second edition book is really confusing and putting me off.

I assume that as an adult you should be able to learn a system, I learned when I was 14.

It's really simple. You have stats and you have skills. You either distribute a fix number of points for the stats or you roll them. For the skills, you have 40 points to distribute among 10 professional skills (given by the character class). Then you can distribute REF+INT points for hobby skills. Your special skill level will determine how much starting cash you have to purchase equipment and cyberware. That's character creation.

For the system: Like in GURPS each skill is linked with a stat. To make a skill check you ad skill level, corresponding stat + 1d10 and you compare it to a given target number. A roll of 1 is a potential fumble - roll again 1d10 to see how bad you fucked up on the corresponding chart on page 43. A roll of 10 is a critical. There are some modifiers that will affect your skill check on page 42 - just ask: "do you have the right tools, are you in a hurry or do you have time, are you injured?"

Combat is basically just a succession of skill rolls. To determine who can act first all protagonists roll for initiative (REF + combat sense + 1d10 + bonus/penalty). The highest score can act first. It's possible to delay one's action for later in the round. Hitting a target is a simple skill roll (hand-to-hand is an opposed skill roll, shooting is a roll vs. TN - TN would be given by the distance to the target). Successful attacks deliver damage. Damage is reduced by MC and armor (values are written on your character sheet). Then you tick on your character's health monitor as many little boxes as the damage you got. For each wound you pass a stun save. If the character is mortally wounded, pass pass death and stun saves. Head shots do double damage (if the head gets more than 8 points of damage the character is KIA).

That's it for the basics.

Alright, thanks, I'll give it a look over once I'm done with Interface Zero.

Some track to get in the mood: youtube.com/watch?v=3bU6JyErVt4

I have a question for CP2020 gamers: I've homebrewed some stuff for it, including a new setting and changed rules. I've also changed the base 1d10 rolls to 2d6. How strong of an effect will this 2d6 bell curve have on the game? I made crits only happen on boxcars and botches on snake eyes, both of which should have much lower probabilities now. This should overall make it harder to fail and harder to succeed at very difficult tasks. Does that work?

I had the same idea, but finally dropped it for the following reasons:

Fumbles and criticals don't play such an important role in Cyberpunk 2020. On a critical you re-roll and add the result - it's not an auto-success. It just allows a character to do a task he normally couldn't do. Fumbles occur only on a roll of 5 to 10 on the fumble table. So, real catastrophic fumbles don't occur that often.

Going to 2d6 will give less variation, which is, philosophically speaking, something not cyberpunk at all, while finally fixing nothing. Strong characters will be even stronger and weak character even weaker.

Good points. Should there be so much variation in the cyberpunk genre? I always thought it edged towards the grittier/realistic part of the spectrum rather than the heroic/action movie end. I suppose it depends on your interpretation of the genre.

Swapping out a uniform main dice mechanic for a bellcurve one will make the whole system wonky, I've done it. You need to re-examine what the usual difficulty checks are and where modifiers come in.

There's a Interface Zero Fate version that was recently kickstarted, haven't seen a pdf of it though.

>heavy on simulation, which is how I prefer it
You won't have a good time with Fate trying to run it as a simulation.

It doesn't get talked about much (because nobody on Veeky Forums actually plays Fate) but Fate needs about as much modular retrofitting for games as GURPS or any other generic system.

I've always had good times running cyberpunk in narrative systems, but I tend to go more for Neuromancer than GitS.

read the GITS and appleseed manga. they're so over the top and goofy. Since i saw those before the cartoon i prefer irony, and 1980s action as default in my cyberpunk (as opposed to only gritty real "issues man").

You make the cyberpunk background, you decide how gritty you want it. Style ranges from realistic to over-the-top.

>I always thought it edged towards the grittier/realistic part of the spectrum rather than the heroic/action movie end.

Cyberpunk idealizes the hero. You don't have many books about the dude getting put through the corporate meat grinder slowly edging towards suicide as the disappointment of life stacks up. It's about the people escaping that and doing things.

Cyberpunk really needs an Armor Penetration attribute for all weapons, like Savage Worlds does. For a game that puts so much emphasis on weapon stats, this is a glaring omission.

GURPS makes the ammo armor-piercing, not the gun itself.

I was talking about Cyberpunk 2020, not GURPS.

>You won't have a good time with Fate trying to run it as a simulation.

Oh, I know that. I prefer gamist/simulationist systems, but if I were to run Fate, I'd run it as intended.

>I've always had good times running cyberpunk in narrative systems, but I tend to go more for Neuromancer than GitS.

Neuromancer is also one of my inspirations. I just want a non-animey cyberpunk setting, something that focuses more on the low-life and gritty parts of the world than the cool cyber-ninjas with pink mohawks side.

If you guys like the novels, you might like Remember Tomorrow. It's basically A Gibson Novel: The RPG and does it really well. Cooperative, narrative, rules-light system.

That sounds really interesting. Thanks for the rec, I'll put it on the list.

So far, I'm really inclined to go with Fate, just because of how light it is, but I'm not sure how I'd go about ruling hacking in the game.

Maybe break hacking into a few skills, have a stress track for hacking attempts, etc?

And he was talking gurps, for comparison

Twat

Cyberpunk includes Armor piercing ammo that can be purchased for any weapon, just at an added cost compared to other weapons. Otherwise, just carry a knife or Monokatana.

Am I right in reading that all PCs in Cyberpunk 2020 have 12 hit points (12 wound boxes) before they fall unconscious?

I'm pretty sure you can still be up when you enter mortal, but your stun saves are pretty small at that point, and you would need some serious augs to keep you up.

And this is why GURPSfags are so insufferable: nobody asked for a GURPS comparison, but we got one anyway.

>Fate, just because of how light it is
Another misconception, its more rules medium really. The rules just apply to stuff that's usually entirely GM fiat. Of course its a matter of perspective, so coming from heavy systems you'd call it light.

>hacking
Its the age-old question of whether to just have it be a skill check or series thereof, or to go full VR cyberdungeon.

Personally I do the former if its only the Hacker doing stuff. If the rest of the PCs are also in shit up to their knees I'll milk it a bit more and usually ad-lib a cyberdungeon. I just jump from PC to PC every turn so you don't have the situation where the non-hackers are twiddling their thumbs for half an hour.

Learning how to deal well with a split party is necessary for cyberpunk games, or games with metropolises of any kind. If there's lots of directions to go in PCs all want to go in different ones.

CP2020 / 2013 also had rules for armor-piercing ammo. IIRC it was pretty effective as it did less damage overall but reduce armor's stopping power to 1/4th its original value.

AP ammo is detailed in the basic book (armor is halved, damage that goes through is halved too). And then you also have dual purpose ammo, API ammo, stun ammo, DPU ammo...

Technically a character could fall unconscious from his first wound if he's weak and/or unlucky.

Probably because OP said he was considering GURPS.

GURPS adds an armor divisor to the ammo, dividing the opposing damage resistance by 2. But keeping your gun damage the same, except the wounding modifier goes down one step (on 99% guns, that means the damage that passes the DR goes from nothing special to being divided by 2). Unless you use 20mm ammo, but adventurers usually don't have that kind of gun.
Sounds like the same kind of stuff.

GURPS 3rd edition is very simple and elegant in its treatment of damage and hit locations:

Damage is treated in three categories: cut, impaling, crushing. Rapiers and arrows to impaling damage. Axes to cutting. Punches, clubs, bullets and the axe handel do crushing damage.

Now comes the tricky part: Bullets do normally crushing damage (like punches or clubs). But if you hit a vital organs damage is multiplied by 3. Same as for impaling attacks. Hits to limbs have no modifier which is also like impaling attacks. Bullets to the torso have no modifier as they do crush damage. But stabs with a knife (impaling) would multiply damage by 2, and slashes (cutting) would multiply damage by 1.5. That said, if the bullet has a diameter superior to .40, damage is multiplied by 1.5 (.45 stopping powaah).

I forgot to mention that in case of hits to the brain, damage must first be reduced by 2 points (for the skull), that is, unless you hit an eye. In this case damage goes straight to the brain.

Limbs are crippled if they receive more than a certain amount of damage, depending on the targets Health (1/3 Health for hands and feet, 1/2 Health for arms and legs). Excess damage is lost.

I don't know the 4th GURPS edition, but in the 3rd AP is treated exactly like in Cyberpunk 2020. DR is divided by two. Damage that goes through is divided by two.

Thing get more complicated when you hit someone with a .45 AP bullet in the vitals. Then, you divide the armor by two, and deduct it from damage. Then you multiply the damage that passes by 1.5, then 3, then you divide by 2. Or you make 1.5+3-2=2.5 ->Multiply the passing damage by 2.5.

It's complex but it's not rocket science, though.

>CURRENT YEAR
>3e
Get out.
Unless it's Vehicles and fluff. Vehicles and fluff can stay.

You must be fucking shitting me, buddy. Why in all the hell would I switch to GURPS 4th edition? The 3rd edition was 213 pages of rules in total which was already long enough for my taste. The 4th edition is whopping 328 pages long for the basic book, plus at least 146 pages of the campaign book (and it seems that vehicles and fluff, sucks). If I wanted to learn a phonebook by heart, I could as well play Shadowrun 5th Edition.

>He doesn't use the Compedia.
What's even the point?

>1974's OD&D PBH HAD 36 PAGES
>5th EDITION D&D HAS 320 PAGES

WHY THE HELL WOULD I SWITCH TO 5TH EDITION

>very simple
>that

GURPS 4th ed has cut, impaling, crushing, small piercing, piercing, large piercing, huge piercing, tight beam burning, burning, fatigue and corrosive.

Does that make your RPG experience more or less enjoyable?

More.

The changes from GURPS 3rd to 4th edition are small.

>In 4th edition, the cost of each additional point in a stat (ST, DX, IQ, HT) does not change. In 3rd edition, basic stats had increasing cost as the stat went up (each point of ST costs more than the last).
Is only used at character creation. Time gain: 2 min. per PC.

>FP (fatigue points - which you lose from heat, combat, and other strenuous activities) is based on HT (health) in 4e, while they are based on ST (strength) in 3e.
Wow!

>HP (hit points - durability) is based on ST in 4e, but HT in 3e.
Wow!

>In 4e, all skills have the same cost progression (1, 2, 4, 8, 12, 16, 20, etc) instead of 3e, where there are different progressions for mental vs physical skills.
Is only used at character creation. Time gain: 3 min. per PC.

>Mental disadvantages use a "self-control roll" in 4e, instead of a will roll in 3e. This is to enable intelligent or strong-willed characters still crave candy bars (or whatever). It also prevents a character with strong will to min/max by taking a bunch of mental disadvantages that will never effect them.
Sounds great but the self-control system uses almost a page of text.

>The Psionics system is advantage-based in 4e, instead of skill-based in 3e. Some of the others are more clear-cut to me, but this one seems like a matter of preference.
The general consensus is that Psionics were "unbalanced" (too powerful) in 3e, but that a lot of people liked that system better.

>GURPS 4th ed has cut, impaling, crushing, small piercing, piercing, large piercing, huge piercing, tight beam burning, burning, fatigue and corrosive.
They could also added cyclopean piercing, planetary piercing, even tighter beam burning, sonic, dental and shamanic. I'm disappointed.

DnD sucks no matter what edition. Can as well stay with the 1974 edition.

's OD&D PBH HAD 36 PAGES
th EDITION D&D HAS 320 PAGES
>WHY THE HELL WOULD I SWITCH TO 5TH EDITION
Well yeah, why would you? I wouldn't.

>(armor is halved, damage that goes through is halved too)

I don't understand this. It actually reduces the damage that AP ammo does against armored targets, which is the opposite of what should happen.

>Example
>32 points of damage from gun
>10 points of armor (SP)
>normally does 22 points of net damage
>now with AP you halve armor = 5
>half gun damage = 16
>net damage is 16 - 5 = 11 points versus 22 with regular ammo
>WTF???

Yeah, this.
Full-color rulebooks don't add anything but cost unless it's a monster compendium. It even looks like ass if you print it out.

Cyberpunk is dead.

It's how AP ammo works. AP rounds are made from dense material like hardened steel or tungsten carbide instead of mild steel or lead. This means that they don't expand or fragment like normal bullets would and therefore make smaller wound cavities and transfer less energy to the target.

Then why would anyone ever use AP ammo if it ends up doing less damage than regular ammo?

This would be the correct formula: (32 DMG - (10/2 SP))/2 = 13.5

Because armor protects more and guns do less damage than in your example, making AP rounds worth it...?

If you've been meaning to try out FATE, do so?

Otherwise I'll recommend GURPS Transhuman Space. Not quite Cyberpunk anymore, but it hits a lot of Appleseed tunes with its bioroids and uploading.

Your players can play as the xox-0 unit who specializes in investigating and capturing xoxed criminals (xox:ing is when you upload and duplicate your personality). This would give you plenty of different flavors of criminal to work around and you can easily move the players to different parts of earth.

I've sorta been thinking about running a Cowboys in the Shell game in Transhuman Space myself, where the players play as freelance xox hunters.

Because if your gun does 14 DMG and you hit an armor of 16 SP you'd do no damage with normal ammo and 3 with AP ammo. 3 is better than nothing, especially when it's in the head, because then it becomes 6. And every wound could potentially knock you out.

There's that or having your bullets bounce off because they lack penetrative force.

Or you do 32 DMG vs. 25 SP. Normal ammo does 7 DMG (32-25) that goes through. AP does 10 ((32-12)/2).

And AP ammo is stil very nice ammo. If you want to play nasty, there're the fragmentation flechettes from Kendachi, the British Reaper rounds, DPU ammo, armor piercing incendiary rounds...

Thanks, I misunderstood that sentence sequence.

Oh, I see. So AP ammo is good for high values of SP where regular ammo does nothing at all, not so good for low SP values. That makes more sense. Wish this was clearer in the book. Is there an optimal point (say, SP 20) where AP ammo is always better? I'm too lazy to calc it...

AP is good when SP is close or over max DMG, and bad in the opposite case.

So if I have a 4d6 handgun and the enemy has SP20 jackets, it's time to whip out the AP ammo. If I have a 6d6 assault rifle and all they've got is some light SP10 vests, regular ammo.
Got it now.

Bump for more cyberpunk.

>gothninja
>cyberpunk

techwear is a closer fit.

Guns no longer have an SS attribute, and instead use a Bulk attribute for firing in close quarters.

Gun Acc levels are lowered.

Instead of rolling for each single bullet to hit (or multiples of 4 for bursts) the Recoil value of a weapon is now the margin of success per bullet hitting (So if you have Recoil 2, 1 shot hits every 2 MoS).

Armour doesn't have a passive defense stat anymore.

Guns don't typically have a Malf rating listed (Though some do note they have a lower malf rating)

The TLs are all different and stuff (Of course).

Really, I've found myself just converting a lot of stuff from 3E to 4E, because it has great settingbooks, but I really don't know how to feel about the system.

I did Night City Oedo in Cyberpunk 2020. It was fun but we never finished.

$abura here, I approve of this thread.

Cyber City Oedo 808 is da bomb. I was planning on running my players through the amok skyscraper scenario.

3e has different armor divisors as well.

...

>Lesbian haircut
>Hipster glasses
>Stupid looking lines over her body
Absolutely disgusting

Nah chummer, it's just in cryo.

Cryo is so 2020

Night. City. Sourcebook.
Giant playable map with each building detailed and Encounter Tables by district.

Night City is a very detailed guide and for this I give the authors credit, but it aged extremely bad.

Many gangs are extremely ridiculous (Black Widows, Valentinos, Philharmonic Vampires, Bozos, Brainiacs, Sacred Blades...). Pic very related. Why the fuck taking gangs from movies such as The Warriors, The Bronx Warriors, Escape from the Bronx and Death Wish, when you have Colors, Black Rain, Year of the Dragon, and The Principal to take inspiration from?

Apart of gangs straight out of low budget 1970's and 1980's B-movies you have tons of entries full of clichés (probably also taken from the same movies).
Example 1: In the whole city there is one massage parlor. And where is it located? In Chinatown. And to does it belong? To the evil Ling Po (or whatever his generic three syllable name is).
Example 2: Little Italy. Really? The Goodfellas 1970's Little Italy made it in a futuristic cyberpunk sprawl? With 2020's Europe being the best place to stay, is there still much immigration from Italy? Why isn't there a Little Bogota, New Panama, New Jersalem or Little Dubai instead? Wouldn't it make much more sense regarding Cyberpunk's background.

And I could continue on and on.

More Night City gangs.

Have you seen Cyber City Oedo 808? If yes, then you're realizing now that the NCS cheese fits a Night City Oedo campaign to a Tea. Don't fight it, user, embrace the cheese.

Cybercity is guda or cheddar, while Night City is casu marzu.

Pic is inspiration for the Sacred Blades gang.

...

Now I know why bows do as much damage as a battle rifle.

Not really worth it, 2020 is pretty wonky. Best bet SR without any magic, just don't use the setting

That's because people realized how unrealistic and grimderp it was.
>Muh 20 hour work days
>Muh Japanese superpower
>Muh crazy fashion
>Muh kids with guns
>Muh government documents connected to the internet

>Muh 20 hour work days
That's pretty derpy but I don't see where this was mentioned. That said, during the time of the industrialization factory and mine workers (who could also be children) would work up to 16 hours per day, six days a week.

>Muh Japanese superpower
Maybe you're too young to remember, but there was a time where the Japanese economy kicked ass, and Japanese investors purchased as many landmarks as they could in the USA.

>Muh crazy fashion
Just google "street styles men 2016".

>Muh kids with guns
Gang members have guns and they can be as young as 12.

>Muh government documents connected to the internet
Hackers stealing the F-35's blueprints for China.

Yeah. Unrealistic it is.