/CofD/ &/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

There is crack selling daeva bloodline in 1e

I'll give it a look later when I have more time.

>Circle
>Fuck you I do what I want
that would be more unaligned
>Invictus
>It makes them taste better, but let's arrest the Carthians if they do it.
nah they don't give a shit about that

So promethean says you can 'force' a firestorm by expending pyros on purpose to cause festering triggers on a wasteland...

Does this imply that these festering triggers wouldn't rely on rolling azoth to fester? It doesn't say you can 'purposely succeed' on the roll, which is what would be necessary to purposely get multiple fester triggers. All considering, the chances of a wasteland festering for an Azoth 1 Promethean is so low that it seems hard to believe they could trigger a firestorm without doing something drastic like a real dumb attempt at making another promethean.

Ive read over it and the advice that you give for mimicking certain parts of it, seem sound. Overall I think it works, though I was actually expecting, say, a breakdown of some Requiem powers into new Dread Powers.

Am I reading the Mage 2e wrong, or does it have flat costs for a lot of things?

It has flat costs for everything
Welcome to Chronicles of Darkness/nwod 2e, where xp costs don't scale

I tried to use it to create some mechanics for "were-bears" didn't go too well. Still working on it in my spare time.

What went wrong?
That is like, a 30 minute project.

So Promethean 2e makes it evident that Alchemists only start going out and killing Prometheans when they become obsessed.

So, if they aren't out killing Prometheans, what are alchemists doing to get Pyros? Are they just getting it from other chemical compositions and experiments that don't involve prometheans? Maybe I missed something.

They generate their own Pyros in small amounts per week. (p.262)

I assume they spend a lot of time experimenting on potions and then brewing them. It takes a lot of time and resources to be a second-rate supernatural villain in the CofD.

Yeah, I know it says they generate their own pyros, but in what way?

Are they sweating it out, collecting their own dumps that just happen to contain pyros? The book doesn't seem to say. Which is why I suggested maybe they are just doing experiments that happen to create pyros. I can't tell if it is coming from within, or without.

2e in general has flat costs, dude.

I'm gonna guess they create it with alchemy.

It probably depends on the individual alchemist, but I assume it's internally-generated, everything from regurgitated liquid Pyros to mushy Pyros poop.

I guess it wouldn't be world of darkness if anything was for sure.

Do you think nWoD is the best system to run Berserk?

No

I'd recommend Exalted.
Alternatively, D&D or an OSR game(Lamentations of the Flame Princess, in particular, would work well with the general aesthetic Berserk has, afaik)

I like it!

>I'd recommend Exalted
And doom him to that community? Why do you hate him, user?

Stones, glass houses, etc.

Is the real benefit of techne in group spellcasting? Being able to use an art form performed with sleepers as two order tools seems pretty crap, unless you can count them both as dedicated Magical tools.

No, not really. I spend most of my gaming community time on Veeky Forums, but when I first got into Exalted years ago I spent a lot of time on the official forums and a few other ones. This is one game I will forever hate because of that community. 2e was a fucking mess mechanically but I had fun with it, but there's something sick deep in the Exalted fan culture. People obsess and explode into real intense anger over minor shit that even here would be weird as hell. It is like a corrupting mental virus that eventually burned me on the whole game and culture. When 3e hit, I went back to see what had become of it in the years since and somehow it got worse.

The WoD/CofD fans are bad sometimes, especially on the official OPP forums (and the LARP crowd is sometimes just weird) but there's something sick at the core of Exalted that does things to people. I was getting that way too when I decided to disengage, and my gaming group I met through it overall became a lot happier and less prone to angry outbursts when we stopped engaging with it.

Exalted, never fucking again.

But I like both communities. The Exalted community isn't bad. Okay it's not great but it's not bad. There are many worse ones.

>The Exalted community isn't bad.

Yes it is. The Veeky Forums branch is the exception in not being shit, the whole of the thing is garbage.

Shadow of the Demon Lord has the atmosphere, but you don't have the invincible Guts-like power. Exalted is good for that but it doesn't have the setting.

No comment?
Where my Libertines at?

Back on the old White Wolf forums I had managed to inoculate myself to the sheer toxicity of the community and thrive there without losing my head. For some twisted reason I miss it. It might just be that I've grown older, but the Onyx Path Exalted forums just aren't the same.

>>Circle
>Fuck you I do what I want
youtube.com/watch?v=cplUonBPjrs

Is it just me, or is Mage 2e borderline unplayable?

Most spells give no indication of whether they are Lasting or not, merely implying vaguely by whether or not they have duration as the primary spell factor. Otherwise you have to guess, and a lot aren't clear cut.

Does Essence Fountain create Lasting Essence? Does Shadow Walk pull you back into the mundane world after its duration ends, or do you stay in the Shadow until you find a way to return?

And then there's all the half-assed creation spells that let you create things but don't tell you what their stats are, like Birth Spirit.

Containing Paradox is either overpowered or way too brutal, depending on how you read the self-contradictory text (can you Scour at any time to remove the Condition, thus making it utterly pointless? do you have to wait the ONE MONTH for it to time out first? It's worded both ways!).

Meanwhile, releasing can make a spell fizzle out on a single paradox success, so you'll never want to use that option. Ever. Period. Unless your ST is very nice or decides to fuck you over even harder than a fizzled spell.

Has there ever been a rule more awkwardly designed than combined spells? Seriously, what the fuck is this noise?

2e has had a lot of improvements over all. VtR 2e had a lot of problems like these, but I chalked it up to being the first book of a new edition and they needed to iron out some problems.

But Mage is twice as bad as VtR was, so it looks like they're just taking a nosedive down hill.

And this is after errata.

Until I discover a massive improvement in the mechanical quality of 2e, I'm done buying them.

Why let Mage sour you on a wider universe you apparently enjoy? What the fuck does DaveB's incompetence have to do with how good Vampire, Werewolf, and Demon are and will continue to be in supplements, or how Dark Eras was one of the best supplements yet?

>Have you ever used or seen somebody try to use Changing Breeds?

What, for Werewolf the Apocalypse or Werewolf the Forsaken?

If it's the former, then yes. Plenty of fun stuff to incorporate into the more exotic stories and whatnot, so long as it fits the story's theme and plot.

If it's the latter, then no. My experience with the entire gameline of Werewolf the Forsaken has been pretty much "Meh" and "Ugh".

It has its issues, but it's hardly borderline unplayable.
I find it fairly easy to determine which spells should have Lasting effects, and creation spells are no problem when you can create the object/spirit with your GM.

Paradox sucks, especially with the ease of removing a Paradox condition. Oh, they also follow the rules for Conditions. So either they auto-lapse at the end of a period of time determined by your Wisdom where you get no Beats, or you resolve them through actions (probably through pattern scouring) and get a beat for doing so.

Also yeah, relinquishing control sucks with Willpower points. But what do you fucking expect? You get those back one a day, and there are spell to get them back faster. Given the lack of any rules about spell tolerance, you could easily just spend a few days stacking up a whole load of spells on yourself. Hopefully there will be advanced relinquishment rules in Signs of Sorcery, but for now the ability for a GM to have (at worst) a 1/10 chance of killing each of your baby-relinquished spells at the end of each session is fine by me.

Anything out there that could help me run a few sessions of Changeling the Lost inside arcadia? I like my players to start as regular people when playing WoD games but am having issues with making that happen with Changeling (a game i've wanted to try runing for a while now). I figured the only way to do that would be to have the characters taken ingame and play out (at least for a bit) what actually happened when they were taken.

That might be tough because part of the fun of Changeling is building your crazy character concept, and if you don't know the end result you want the Durance might feel kinda aimless. That's before the struggles of everyone sharing a single Keeper being somewhat restrictive in character concepts, though the shared escape makes for a gripping intro story.

I would have everyone come up with Changeling character concepts, and then backport them into being mortals being transformed in Arcadia.

Only way I can see that working is with a series of pre-game mini-sessions for each player. Alternatively, have a few really short ones, and have them all sold to the same Gentry by a slaver.

Have a few sessions of them just surviving, the craziness and surrealness of their surroundings and how they've got to make pacts with Arcadia just to be able to eat and sleep.

Then have them engage their big escape, and kill a few on the way out. But give them a good send off.

Then after bursting out of the Hedge, inform the survivors that they hardly remember anything that went on inside, with half-formed memories of those who fell, and the ever-present fear that their previous master may come for them.

Good shit.

ya, what I was thinking was if they wanted, pick their kiths and seemings, then make some mortal characters and I would have things that would make the stuff that would cause those effects to happen. I figured I would either do solo games for each of them and at the end have them taken or maybe do a psuedo-mortal game, I was thinking maybe having a bunch of abductions happen around the city and have them try to figure out what was going on, which led to their capture.

My idea for how to do arcadia was to have a kinda regal true-fae who needed servants and things for his manor, so guards, groundskeepers, butlers, etc. I'm thinking that due to arcadias fucking weirdness it would't be out of place to have some WEIRD jobs that servants do. The characters would then meet and it would the next few sessions would be them planning an escape of some sort.

>Is it just me, or is Mage 2e borderline unplayable?
It's definitely just you.

Most of your problems also seem completely dumb. Maybe you should try playing it first.

>Is it just me, or is Mage 2e borderline unplayable?
Having played around a dozen sessions of M2e now, it's definitely just you.
I find it extremely playable.

Though I do share your annoyance with how hard it is to gauge if a spell is Lasting or not.

Been there done that Bro. Its a weird mix of entitlement and cult habits. Worship and power fantasies. It really kills the fun when politics and power dynamics dictate the game. Especially when you're trying to be the responsible one doing work, while everyone else is wanking themselves off.

While I don't agree with the poster (I find that Mage 2e has a steep learning curve but works smoothly after) but it's valid to judge the book as an instruction manual.

Their conclusion still might be flawed, but nine times out of ten "you haven't played it!" isn't the best counterpoint.

If you see a player or a DM who talks about "loli", report him to the police because he's definitely a pedophile.

What if he's a cyber hacker talking about his favorite Nabokov book while speaking his decking lingo?

The answer, of course, is to mock him for not having Pale Fire as his favorite.

is that an issue?

Depends if you like flat costs or not.
You can't exactly do scaling costs with a system like Beats.

It's actually one of the great things about CofD compared to nWoD.

I've seen no real XP pace changes from one to the other, to be honest.

Neither have I.
But that's because my players are fuckwits who don't like Conditions and choosing to Dramatically Fail tests.

They think I'll kill them with it or something.

W-will you?

No. I just want their characters to suffer.
And in exchange for my jollies, they get experience.
A fair trade.

as it should be. Remember, like Aspirations Obsessions give Arcane Beats for making headway. Also You can Switch up Obsessions in the middle of the session if need be.

I wanted to.
But they were also really shitty as pursuing their Obsessions and Aspirations as well.

As much as I told them, I don't think they got that I don't just hand out the "reasonable" amount of Beats each session.

looks like the problem is your players

Always knew it was.
God I wish I had good players to choose from.

It's not JUST that he hasn't played it, but he seems to have a wildly different understanding of the game compared to everyone else, including people who have played it.

>Lasting
There are spells without Duration as the primary factor that aren't Lasting. The way to tell if something is Lasting is, essentially, if it changes the world in a way that would be sustained without the Mage's intervention.
>Essence Fountain
It creates essence. That Essence won't go away at the end of the scene because it's made right into the subject's Pattern, feeding it.
>Shadow Walk
Shadow Walk doesn't put you in the Shadow in the first place; you might mean World Walker, which does put you on the other side of the Gauntlet. It's Lasting, unless you Materialize a Spirit.
>Birth Spirit
It creates a Rank 1 Spirit, the traits of which are found on page 254.
>Paradox
You don't Scour the Condition away, you Scour the Paradox out of your pattern. You're stuck with the Condition until you either wait it out or deal with the Resolution (which is generally bad). Once you've Resolved the Condition, all your Spells cause Paradox and your Nimbus is tainted until you Scour it.

Paradox generally won't cause a spell to fizzle, though it can happen if you're already tweaking Spell Factors down to the wire, or you're on your third Paradox for the scene.

>Combined Spells
You didn't actually give a complaint, so I can't tell you how it is or isn't awkward. Take a penalty, cast two spells at once with all the same Factors. It's pretty simple. Heck, I think it's better than 1e's.
Frankly, I find Paradox a clunkier and more time consuming mechanic due to all the rolls.

>Until I discover a massive improvement in the mechanical quality of 2e, I'm done buying them.
Every single one of the games has had a vastly improved mechanical quality over 1e. Even Beast is mechanically better than many of the 1e books, and it has two themes that cancel each other out.

But you just started talking about loli. That means you're the pedophile!

You can, but it would take forever.
I mean, no one used the existing XP cost rules anyway, where you generally got at most 5xp a session. You're not going to be buying things willy nilly every session when your next increase costs 20xp.

How are they not following their Aspirations and Obsessions? Shit, hit them with Conditions regardless. Maybe when they finally realize they'll HAVE to trigger the Resolution, they'll realize it's not so bad.

>deal with the Resolution
Fun fact. All the Abyssal Conditions list "the mage Scours the Condition from her Pattern" as a resolution.

And then you have to Scour again to get rid of the Abyssal Taint in your Pattern!

I don't know about you, but I like not taking 2L on a regular basis, on top of the bashing damage from containing the paradox in the first place.

Taint only settles in your Pattern if you let the condition lapse, which you haven't done, because you've resolved it.

Time for last second prep for session three of my solo Promethean game.

Plan for this session:
The pandoran the PC woke up needs more pyros, so it is going to stop by again.
Plus they took sides in a rural drug war, so that will probably come to a head if there is time.

Oh, so it does. Still, taking lethal damage isn't exactly easy peasy. That shit takes two days to heal, and if you're doing the kind of thing that leads to Paradox in the first place, you probably won't be in a position to take damage.

That said, I do wish Bashing and Lethal lasted longer. Even Aggravated.

Who are you, why are you posting that here, and why do you think we care?

Have I just had really bad luck with Changeling games or is the game/community just not for me?

Every game I've played so far should have been titled "world of darkness: special victims unit". It's like theirs a race to the bottom for the most disturbing backstory.

Why am I posting about my cofd game in /wodg/?

Um, user, I think you might want to reevaluate that question.

Eh, thing is if you reach super far, then take the condition from keeping the paradox in your soul, odds are you can resolve your problem with you super-powered spell.

Some people get caught up in the dismay, or to them it's torture porn.

My darkest Changeling was a dude who broke out of basically horrible mine/forge where he had to feed the fallen workers into the furnace, and the soot, smoke and fire stained his body.
Forged a sword with his heartsblood, broke his chains and escaped.
His fetch was a worthless drunk who cut ties with his family, and didn't even go to his Dad's funeral.

He took pleasure in ending that worthless sack of twigs and leaves.

Clearly you were mistaken, this is the "argue with someone about aspects of the setting" thread.

Oh, my bad.

>It's not JUST that he hasn't played it, but he seems to have a wildly different understanding of the game compared to everyone else, including people who have played it.

All I'm saying is "you haven't played it" isn't a real cut and dry argument on why someone's criticism of a game can be wrong. I could easily see someone getting confused about all those things, whether that's the fault of the player or the fault of the book itself.

>Telling people not to post about their game
Why do you hate the thread?

I need to run my solo game that might have other players eventually. Currently she's in Cuprum as a Watcher, and she just broke into the apartment of the girl she's been stalking to find her ex-no-longer boyfriend sleeping in her bed after clearly having had sex with her. So she's now stolen some of his hair to spy on him with Sensorium and will probably try to kill him or scare him off.

Hopefully 2e will take a bit of that off by focusing more on recovery and dealing with life, instead of just "woe is me".
What kind of disturbing backstories?

I haven't really experienced that many. I don't even think I've seen that many "I WAS RAPED REPEATEDLY FOREVER". Usually in my experience they're more along the lines of being put through faerie tales or weird situations repeatedly.

Iunno. I don't think there really are that many "SOLVE ALL MY PROBLEMS IMMEDIATELY" spells. Really, you've got to worry more when you're trying for precision in a pinch. Killing someone dead is *less* likely to cause Paradox.

As for my 'darkest' Changeling:
It was a transman who was kicked out of his home for being a queermo. Got seduced by a faerie king and essentially became a caged bird of a boytoy. When he realized that was an abusive, controlling relationship, he bounced. He's been a bit of a depressing queer stereotype ever since, but he's got a day-at-a-time approach to things, and tends to have one or two boyfriends at a time who's cabinets he can raid.

I've been playing it, friend. For multiple sessions a week for about a month now.

That's why I know it's borderline unplayable with unclear and self-contradictory rules.

I do enjoy it. Which is why I'm so frustrated. As I said, it's not just Mage. Vampire had a lot of problems like this, too. Such as referencing Foot Chase rules months before such rules even existed, despite being "self-contained." Poorly thought out and incomplete rules seems to be the new status quo.

Yes, spells without Duration as the primary spell factor are more likely to be Lasting. That was my point. I had someone contest that Essence Fountain could possibly be Lasting, especially given most other Creation spells are not Lasting. And yes, I meant World Walker. You talk like it's Lasting is a fact spelled out in the book, but there's no evidence for this position.

And rank 1 spirits have a range of possible stats. Creating at the minimum seems a reasonable assumption, but that's all it is.

Birth Spirit not being Lasting while Essence Fountain is seems also inconsistent, given all it takes to make a spirit without magic is a strong emotion. Same as Essence, really. They shouldn't need magic to sustain them when created, but they do.

As for Paradox, you're once again assuming it's one way without evidence. As another user says, they list scouring as a means of resolution. The paragraph that explains scouring Paradox is poorly written, like a different person wrote the second half because it doesn't match at all with the first half.

And yes, as I said, I find some solid improvements in 2e. Flat costs. Changes to Dramatic Failures. Improved Morality systems (Mage's seems half-assed though, too, and seems to have less than a quarter of the writing space dedicated to it that others have) and better Virtue/Vice.

But they also reference rules that don't exist, contain half-written and unclear rules, and contradict themselves.

>That's why I know it's borderline unplayable with unclear and self-contradictory rules.
Other people seem to be managing just fine.
Foot chases referenced in Vampire mean the "Foot Chase" action under the Athletics skill. Though in 1e those rules were a lot more complicated than a simple Contested action. It was Extended, and you had to overcome the other person's Speed.

>You talk like it's Lasting is a fact spelled out in the book, but there's no evidence for this position.
I talk like it doesn't need to be spelled out as Lasting because it follows the guidelines set forth on when a spell would be Lasting.

Birth Spirit also would be Lasting. It also takes quite a bit more than *just* strong emotions to create more than just motes.

I really don't understand this sentiment I keep seeing where "that seems a reasonable assumption" isn't all that's necessary.

I really just don't understand your problems. They're not things that other people seem to be stumbling over for the most part, and at least some of it seems to be misunderstandings on your part.

I mean, there are 'missing' rules, but as far as I know I'm the only one who's complained about Parkour, or the fact that it seems to be written subtly different each time.

>Birth Spirit also would be Lasting.
Errata changed its primary factor to Duration. That would be a strange thing to do if it's Lasting.

Which is kind of entirely my point. It looks Lasting, but logically it isn't or else Duration wouldn't be the primary factor.

There's no consistency.

Are you planning to incorporate 2nd edition Seeming rules? In that case player's will give you really good tips on how they want their characters to escape.
Beast: make them break taboos and act like animals to break out.
Fairest: Assigned Team Leader.
Darklings: Let them be the token evil teammate.
Wizened: Their special talent should be key to their freedom.
Ogres: These are begging for an epic fight scene (though don't be ashamed to nerf their opponents)
Elementals: Give their mortal some impossible challange that would require them to "become one with all" or something like that.
This way their Seemings will feel earned. Or you could let your players pick Kiths and decide unlock their seemings after their escape based on their choices, if your players agree to it.

How wide should influences for a spirit reasonably be?

>Other people seem to be managing just fine.

This has got to be the TTRPG version of "works fine on my machine".

>I really don't understand this sentiment I keep seeing where "that seems a reasonable assumption" isn't all that's necessary.

Because what is reasonable and what is not is ultimately subjective, which isn't a great thing for your several hundred page role-playing game where one will be interacting with the rules a lot. There are times, especially in Mage, when that is ultimately unavoidable, but a game writer should try to steer clear of that as much as possible.

The moment a technical writer assumes that "common sense" will prevail is the moment when the editor should be very worried. You'll never understand this because you've never actually had a project go beyond the initial writing stages.

Oh, then clearly it isn't Lasting!
I suppose that's probably because Potency does nothing for the spell.

Also, there's plenty of consistency.

Broad as need be, but not so broad as to cover everything.

>This has got to be the TTRPG version of "works fine on my machine".
I see it more as "do you seriously need everything spelled out for you?"

Most of this is barely even going as far as "common sense".

>I see it more as "do you seriously need everything spelled out for you?"

Of course you would see "we need to be as close to 100% clear about these rules we're making" as "Do I have to spell it out for you?"

Obviously no one can cover every single detail with the reality of word count. I think the Mage writers tried their absolute hardest, especially during an incredibly tumultuous development cycle. It's all a matter of risk, and they picked and chose their battles when it came to writing rules. It didn't work out for some and it worked out great for others and that alone is a victory.

I'm saying that so you absolutely know that I'm addressing only you about this, and why not understanding why rules clarity is important is one of your serious flaws as a person who aspires to write for games.

>Also, there's plenty of consistency.
Even something as basic as Mage Armor has no consistency.

Half the Mage Armors scale with Arcana dots and half just have a flat effect that never changes once you unlock it.

So something like Influence: Emotions or Influence:animals is probably bad, but influence:Camaraderie or Influence:cat is better?

The problem is that I only see this shit from /wodg/. You act like the rules are something obtuse and impossible to understand, and that any hint of ambiguity makes something unplayable.

The thing that I find most confusing is that no one ever brings up the ACTUAL problems I've seen in the rules. It's always needing things spelled out. There are places I feel that's necessary (like everything to do with combat), but "which spells are Lasting" seems completely unnecessary, especially given the sidebar that does exactly that.

The only two Mage Armours not based on your Arcanum are Spirit and Death, which got a buff. That's far from "half".

Yes.

>That's far from "half".
It's also far from consistent! Which was the point. Quit moving goalposts.

The notion that there needs to be consistency in them to begin with is a flawed argument. None of them are consistent. Hell, the fact that Spirit and Death are effectively the same is more of a problem than inconsistency.

"It's inconsistent!" was your goalpost, not mine. The game is consistent where it needs to be. That doesn't mean that the whole thing is exactly the same across everything. I mean, shit, you were talking about consistency in what is or isn't Lasting. Then I pointed out that there is and you moved to Mage Armour. "That is consistent" "W-well this thing isn't, so there!"

For what it's worth, personally, I would make Birth Spirit Lasting, but I can completely understand why they didn't. It's something that needs to be sustained by the Mage, as opposed to creating a change that will persist even after the Mage stops sustaining the effect (for instance, damage or healing).

>I'm saying that so you absolutely know that I'm addressing only you about this, and why not understanding why rules clarity is important is one of your serious flaws as a person who aspires to write for games.
As an aside, I find this silly, considering as far as I'm concerned my biggest flaw is that I spend way too many words explaining things instead of treating the reader as if they have common sense.

>The problem is that I only see this shit from /wodg/. You act like the rules are something obtuse and impossible to understand, and that any hint of ambiguity makes something unplayable.
>implying you don't do the same thing
>changing breeds
>inferno

I'm working on a new spirit for a game, the totem of a Pure pack born out of the Great War, representing the idea of war and more particularly the Camaraderie that it endears in those who fight and die together, I was hoping I could get your guys opinions on the ban/bane i have for it so far, I've never been terribly good at this spirit stuff.

pastebin.com/wbfyyeG2

The more broad you get the more powerful the spirit would be. Influence Emotions/Animals would be a spirit of the entire animal kingdom or emotions altogether, king of every other animal/emotion spirit.

STing Mage Neolithic soon. Would like to freak my players with an Omphalos Stone from a clearly negative god. What God should it be?

I can't use an animal because that's too normal, and going with Tentacle or Darkness is not the flavor I want. Would The Outsider be good?

>Then I pointed out that there is
Except you didn't. I just gave up on arguing with a brick wall.

There is no consistency with Lasting. There can't be, because it's not even mentioned beyond a handful of spells. Unless you mean it's consistently forgotten about.

The sidebar is useless, too.

It says that environmental changes are Lasting. What is environmental about World Walker? Why do you think it's Lasting?

Salt the Earth literally creates an Extreme Environment tilt. Shouldn't it then be Lasting by the sidebar? But it's primary factor is Duration!

Not to mention that it talks about killing all life then goes on to explain what happens if something somehow survives the "kill all life" spell despite not having withstand or a dice roll or any indication whatsoever of how you'd go about surviving it.

Not...quite, an entity starts out fairly vague, representing stuff like dogs, trees, love and as it grows stronger its influences grow into more specialized fields. Dogs stops being just "dogs", it becomes loyalty. A lion spirit might grow into something that encompasses majesty, or it might grow influences relating to predation.

What rank is it?

Remember, a bane is a material, a ban is a compulsion

Ban: Must fight alongside allies