Regarding Futures

Everyone expects wall street to short BTC, so that is exactly why it won't happen.

>buy 12 month BTC future @ 18k
>BTC is at 100k in 12 months
>12 months pass
scenario 1
>btc is 100k
>you buy btc for 18k, massive gains
scenario 2
>btc is $100
>you must buy btc for 18k, massive losses
you can also sell your futures contract

woops, forgot to remove "BTC is at 100k in 12 months" from the first quote

I'm talking about selling a futures contract only.

If I agree to sell my futures contact saying BTC is going to be at $18,000 next year (assuming $15,000 now), and somebody buys it, that's a free $3000 per BTC next year at no risk to me.

People will have to buy futures contracts in which BTC is higher than what it is now, right? Normally that's done at a rate of risk-free interest, which for Bitcoin is kind of useless.

What am I missing?

My original wording wasn't too clear but I think I'm only referring to selling a future's contract.

ok, so to clarify, you're saying you would:
1) sell a futures contract for 18k
2) buy a bitcoin for 15k
3) collect 18k in a year and make 3k
my assumption is that the actual amount you're going to be able to set the contract at is going to be much closer to 15k (or whatever the cost is at the time). I don't know enough about futures to be able to say what that amount is likely to be though.

Ok cool. Let's say my savings account gives me 1% and my futures contract for Bitcoin is for 2% higher than the spot price.

Is this a better savings account now?

cmegroup.com/media-room/press-releases/2017/12/01/cme_group_self-certifiesbitcoinfuturestolaunchdec18.html

“CME Group's Bitcoin futures will be cash-settled, based on the CME CF Bitcoin Reference Rate (BRR) which serves as a once-a-day reference rate of the U.S. dollar price of bitcoin.

Since November 2016, CME Group and Crypto Facilities Ltd. have calculated and published the BRR, which aggregates the trade flow of major bitcoin spot exchanges during a calculation window into the U.S. Dollar price of one bitcoin as of 4:00 p.m. London time.

The BRR is designed around the IOSCO Principles for Financial Benchmarks.

Bitstamp, GDAX, itBit and Kraken are the constituent exchanges that currently contribute the pricing data for calculating the BRR.”

Can anyone tell me why they would kill bitcoin prices?

>you would need to own a massive amount of bitcoin to do that
>even for institutions that have been accumulating bitcoin, it’s difficult to crash the market
>shorting btc once futures opens is exactly what everyone with a half brain that’s been around here a while expects. isn’t it a long shot to think it will still happen?
>the contracts are not even revealed. the terms might make it so that shorting it is actually a minimal profit for the effort done.

It seems that everything is unclear about the issue, so I’ll hodl regardless

cryptocurrency=currency without borders=world currency=3rd world included= pajeets and other shitheads dominating the currency= white people lose part of their wealth they could have kept=currency that is highly valuable to 3rd world=3rd world will NEVER stop using it as long as white people are involved

thank you white man for you hard work for me to shit more pajeets on your clean streets

because of FUD

nevermind that bitcoin futures have been trading in china/japan etc for many months now

Asset increases in value 100x in past two years and people wonder why smart money thinks it will drop? Is /biz really this stupid? I know that buy high sell low is the motto of this board but that's not the motto of investors that can actually make money.

Because the entirety of the crypto market is pocket change for wall street. If known public billionares are in the 100+ bill net worth, how much do you think secluded underground groups of investors from the creation of the first nose have?

Bezos, the man with the highest net worth in the world, just broke 100 bil net worth last week. Are you fucking retarded?

name one person with 100 billion in net worth

ill wait

BTC is not a currency anymore

Wron.
investopedia.com/terms/1/52weekhighlow.asp

This so true. Been seeing many threads of ppl cashing out. Don’t realize bitcoin will 10x to 20x over the next decade or two

52 weeks is one year. I said two. Two years is 104 weeks. I guess /biz is that stupid.

My name is Jeff. Jeff Bezos

>i-its barely 100 bill!
Nice deflection. Point still stands

nice try

Worse; they'll short it to skyrim.

they're not going to short bitcoin, they're going to short sell futures and put up massive btc buys that will cause panic and crash the price

""wall street"" (extremmely ambiguous term) already has bitcoin. It didn't get pumped up to over 400b with tom dick and harry's money. It added Goldman sachs entire marketcap in 1 day last week.

massive sells* not buys.

the massive buys that you saw over the past month are going to go up as sells immediately after they short sell the futures.

(((they))) wont short sell btc, they dump the btc they bought over the past 6 months and short sell the future.

that is the thing isnt it
bitcoin is just too big to control at this point

Yes goldman sachs and jp morgan own some bitcoins
but so does bank of japan, the government of china... hell the IMF probably has a bunch

no single market can control bitcoin now. no single player can dictate the price. Too big, too global

>Btc too big, too global for International Finance
hmm

thats right

theres a reason the US banking companies cant just dictate the value of gold

its a fucking GLOBAL MARKET with LARGE PLAYERS AROUND THE WORLD

buy my bitcoin packages, goy

I still don’t believe bitcoin can be crashed below 10k when futures open, am I delusional?

one moment its currency one moment its not, wow how easy its to lure people in to """"""""invest""""""""" *shits on streets*

>theres a reason the US banking companies cant just dictate the value of gold

Are you fucking retarded mate? Gold's price is HEAVILY manipulated through ETFs.

and if it is manipulated too hard? you get arbitrage from china or switzerland or wherever the fuck to bring it back where it "belongs"

This is exactly what wall street wants... way to play right into their hands retard.

Once a bunch of them buy short contracts the BTC market will see this as the true value of BTC and it will plummet. That's how gold futures work and it will be the same here.

>trading turns into a complete shitshow
>feds now have a reason to step in and impose regulations

cap this

>cap this
Why? We all already know this.

Not everyone. There are plenty of people here who still think mainstreaming/normies in cyrpto is a good idea.

Dumb, buy put options

could I get an example of how short selling the futures works? cant really wrap my head around the concept since I am a financial newfag

The better question is: What counter strategies could someone put in place to fuck over an opponent who is trying to short BTC? Not everyone on Wall Street is on the same side, after all. When you pump bitcoin and plan to sell it later to short it, the affect of your pump on Bitcoin's price is visible. You can see the increase in price. However, if someone trying to kill shorters has large amounts of funds they haven't bitcoin yet----thats a black swan that can fuck over the shorters, which ideally, is what will happen.

only futures will be available initially

Go back to your containment thread moron

Does anybody have a countdown timer for when the futures trading actually opens? Timezone calculations suck

this.

a free market doesn't mean people can't fuck with it. on the contrary it means people will absolutely fuck with it but they can't fuck with it for long before another entity comes along and restores balance because the profit from doing so would just be too high to pass up.

holy i just read this and realized selling all my LTC at 150 was a huge mistake. FML seriously.

futures lauch is the same as the bitchcash fork
it was going to be the end of bitcoin and see where we are now

You dont "have to buy" anything you dense fucking idiot. Stop giving advice if you dont know shit.

Step one: buy futures (futures cost money actually wow)
step 2: bitcoin crashes
step 3: your futures you spent money on are now worth nothing

There a lot of fucking plebes in this thread.

A future contract does not need to be higher than spot, it can trade above or below.

How future contracts can rekt spot prices is the opportunity to arbitrage. If spot price is higher then future price. You sell spot and buy future for risk free profit.

Future usually end up control the price, they have higher liquidity after all. The tail waging the dog...

Who knows which way wall st is going.. all that media saying btc to 100k by end of year and the twin whoring it out, makes me feel they gonna short the shit out of it

Counter strategies wtf... the man with the most money wins

> thread closed

>the Bitcoin Reference Rate; Accrued Assurance Assymetric Portfolio.

And then correction to morowind

>because the second and third men could not join forces and have more than the first

its the 101 of market manipulation and domination

happend in the past on precious metals and other markets

history is bound to repeat itself because people are greedy and we all know that big money dares a lot for greed.

Fear not, for I am watchful.