Pathfinder General /pfg/

Oh, that sounds better then, I'll take a look at that.

Fighter VMC is among the worst VMC out there

Monk VMC still wins at being the worst though

>not gunslinger

u wot m8

Cross-posting to this general, 'cause I didn't notice there was a new one.

What do you guys like about Pathfinder? Why do you play it over other RPGs?

I'm a newfag considering it for my first play group. I used to have friends that were into D&D 3.5 (I didn't play with them) as opposed to 4e which was the current edition at the time. I heard that Pathfinder was based on the rule set of 3.5 but with fixes and improvements. Your thoughts?

Because it's easy to find players for. Pathfinder fixes some of the most egregious problems with 3.5(like polymorph effects), but overall it's not really an improvement, more of a sidegrade.

Also, both are TERRIBLE choices for anyone's first system. I'd advice looking into 4e or 5e instead.

First, is right, Gunslinger is utter shit. Second, for the very specific thing that wants (getting mobility in medium armor), Fighter VMC is passable. Bravery isn't very useful, but the Armor and Weapon Trainings are all technically better than feats you could get normally, and since they want Armor Training specifically, it can be a worthwhile investment for that character specifically, even if most characters would never want to take it.

Look at 5e, kinda the same as 3.5, lot more friendly to new players due to not as much math. not as fun due to not as much math.

is right, rather. Misclicked.

Not as much content due to being baby new, so you can barely customize your characters whatsoever (which feelsbadman)

I like building stupid things with it. It's got enough shit in it that I can make a bunch of silly things. Many of them are not viable in an actual campaign, since a wizard will outdo or invalidate my builds, but I enjoy building things, so whatever.

I play because I like to roleplay, and finding Pathfinder groups is easier than finding groups for some of the other systems I know.

Honestly, there are some holes in the system, and it can be frustrating if you subscribe to the "levels represent general stages of power" school of thought. I haven't played 5e, but it would likely be a better entry system, unless you are comfortable with houseruling things.

Should clarify, 5e would likely be better because there isn't as much material. Pathfinder is not ridiculously complex until you start allowing all the bells and whistles. There are a lot of optional subsystems, some of which don't work great together, and there are a lot of classes as well. It's pretty good for customization, but if your players are looking for something more straightforward, 5e is probably easier in this regard.

What are some of your group's houserules?

Our GM allows most things unerrata'd

>allows most things unerrata'd
I wish

Somehow my brain erased it's existence, even when I'm seeing right at it I only see a blank space.

pastebin.com/HELssF9J

Ok here's the level 5 comparison.

Barbarian really suffers from not having 6th level beast totem at this point and Warder outstrips its damage by a good margin.

I probably only have time to do one more for today till class and playing Warmachine at the local LGS gets in the way.

Gonna do that at 11 so Barbarian gets access to more toys than a 10 comparison.

>Say I wanted to play Awoo. How would I stat her?

1pp or 3pp?

Racially she's an Agathion-Blooded Aasimar, under 1pp she'd be a Slayer while 3pp would have her as either a Warder or Stalker.

This actually really interesting and I thank you for taking me up on this. Would the level 6 totem and iterative attack for both change much?

I actually think 5 is a very biased comparison point. As you mentioned, barbarian gets a his next totem at 6, and both of them get their full attacks. Meanwhile, 5 was the warder getting both a third level maneuver and a third level stance, which is a significant damage spike.

>Tft when my Ragebred Barbarian beast totem
Alchemist VMC Barbarian would be better though, but my GM said hell no.

Yeah I should have suggested 6, 11 and such instead of multiples of 5. I didn't consider that in the comparison

holy fuck, would that shit be nice.

My GM is pretty good about making martials viable, that being said. But he knows when I'm trying to do broken shit, lol. He allows Jingasa to have its unerrata'd effects, but he's not going to give me unerrata'd Feral Combat Training, because he knows I'll make a 12 Natural Attack Pummeling Strike build in like, 2 seconds. Though, I keep that kind of shit to theorycrafting, since I'm not going to try breaking shit and ruining our group's fun.

He's made an "armor as DR" thing(not the official one), some feats that allow for critical builds, changes to large-scale teleportation such that you need to have a leyline map to pull it off, and you can only go to certain places, changes to crafting, a few alterations to grappling, and various other changes.

He's also grabbing a few things from the feat tax deal, though he's trying to balance them a bit.

Is Momiji the cute wolf, or cutest wolf?

I just died in a campaign that has sort of a "wild west" vibe to it and has advanced firearms in it. We didn't really know about any of that before the campaign, but now i have the opportunity to take advantage of it.
Desperado, Gunsmoke Mystic, Privateer or what? Part of me wants to play a Mithral Current using Privateer that sets up silver vulnerability then fires silver bullets, but i doubt this would be very good.

Any other good "gun users" in 3pp? Paizo's gun using classes aren't that great.

how does momiji fight? I don't 2hu at all, just like cute awoos

My DM house ruled that Magi don't get an extra attack from combining Spellstrike and Spell Combat (the spell is just attached to whatever attack in your full attack routine hits first). He didn't remove the -2 attack roll penalty Magi get when using Spell Combat, but he and I both genuinely forgot about that penalty more often than not.

That kinda gimps the magus hard. What was the reason for the houserule?

>how does momiji fight?

Like everyone else in Gensokyo, Momiji fights other Youkai and greedy shrine maidens with Danmaku, which is utterly irrelevant to the conversation since it's almost impossible (and unneeded) to represent Danmaku for a Pathfinder campaign.

That said, Momiji is noted for her use of a large sword and shield, as she is the chief guardswoman of Youkai Mountain. She is also seen on occasion using a bow, which she wields with exceptional skill given her incredible eyesight (she can see over 2,500 ahead with detail.) She is also known to seem "bigger" than she really is, frightening intruders away from Tengu territory.

With all this in mind, she's ideally represented as a switch-hitting Slayer that peppers opponents from extreme range before moving in with a heavy steel shield and bastard sword.

>She is also known to seem "bigger" than she really is

Big for whom?

>switch-hitting

Only good in core. Complete dogshit in mid 2016 even in 1pp only.

Fighter (Viking) would also work very well for Momiji, as Viking focuses on Intimidation, Rage (which represents her strength and "increase in stature") and the use of Shields.

I don't really remember the exact discussion, but I think he didn't feel it was reasonable for the magus to get to full attack AND cast a spell AND get an extra attack on top of that, I think. This came up during the first session, I think, which was also the first time I had ever played Pathfinder and we handled it that way for the entirety of the adventure path. I was still able to deliver my touch spells with a melee attack when I wasn't full attacking, and he didn't object to Spell Combat on Bladed Dash once I got that spell.

Whoa, I think I thought too much in that post.

In the spell though there is a touch attack component, so the "extra spell" is an extra attack in itself, adding the weapon damage is just a price paid for making it a normal attack instead of a touch attack.

We were all pretty new to Pathfinder at the time. I'm pretty sure he was probably just scared by the extra damage it would have allowed my character to deal (as a STR-based Magus, an extra weapon attack was not insignificant damage) when said character was already the highest damage-dealer in the party. The fact that the extra damage could be considered a trade-off for the decreased chance of hitting was never really considered by me or by him, as I very rarely had trouble hitting my opponents with normal melee attacks (and I had Arcane Accuracy for those situations).

Why do people in /pfg/ hold that beguiler conversion in such high regard? It's still paizo level ivory tower design full of trap feats and poorly self-balanced character options.

Thanks for the advice guys. 5e it is

Because, for the most part, it's well designed. Sure there are feats that are less than stellar and the arcane hand order lags behind the rest, but those are outliers rather than the usual. Add to that the fact that the author is really reasonable and actually fixes issues that people bring to him instead of plugging his ears and shouting "PERFECTLY BALANCED!" and you'll see why people love the product.

How would you play a cheshire catgirl in Pathfinder?

Refluffed Blinkling with maximum Charisma for smug to rival immortal lolis.

Hell yeah. I've been wanting to play this just to confuse and dumbfound the rest of the party.

Don't forget about related spell.

Tailful Polymorph

School: Transmutation (polymorph)
Level: bloodrager 1, cleric 1, druid 1, inquisitor 1, ranger 1, sorcerer/wizard 1

Casting Time: 1 standard action
Components: V, S, F (a plush, doll, or other huggable, loveable representation of a mammal)

Range: touch
Target: living creature touched
Duration: instantaneous (willing) or 24 hours (unwilling)
Saving Throw: Fort negates
Spell Resistance: yes

The target instantaneously grows a luxurious tail (and optionally other features, as below. However, the tail is non-negotiable, okay?) matching the animal represented by your focus. If the target already possesses animalistic features, you may instead choose to improve the fluffiness of these features, change the apparent species of these features (e.g. change a catfolk's tail to a fox's tail), or simply remove any or all of them, if you're lame like that (this last use always has a 24-hour duration, regardless of the willingness of the target).

A creature who gains a tail from this spell, or whose natural tail has been enhanced, can wrap themselves or another in this tail to ward against winter's chill; the wrappee suffers no harm from being in a cold environment, and can exist comfortably in conditions as low as –45 degrees Celsius without having to make Fortitude saves. This doesn't provide any protection from cold damage, nor does it protect against other environmental hazards associated with cold weather (such as slipping on ice, blindness from snow, and so on).
Other features grant +1 circumstance bonuses to the following skills (and no other mechanical benefit, such as movement speeds or natural attacks):
Ears: Perception checks to hear
Eyes: Perception checks to see
Feet: Stealth checks to move silently
One Single Fang: Diplomacy checks to influence attitude
Additional features may be possible with GM permission.

>arcane kitsune
Ear and tail fur are always in delightfully clean, conditioned, soft, untangled, and freshly scented condition. Thank you, Prestidigitation!

>non-arcane kitsune
Ear and tail fur get unkempt, matted, smelly, sweat-drenched, sticky, tangled, and dirty with just a few hours of adventuring.

Why would you ever settle for a non-arcane kitsune?

>Why would you ever settle for a non-arcane kitsune?
the are willing to do all the kinky stuff

Now that you can't mix styles, what's the best style for an Unchained monk?

Can I use Solar Wind with a ballista?
Can I use Solar Wind with alchemical dragon-mounted ballistas?

I think I will be introducing this noblewoman and her cute-halfling assassins in the next game I run.

Well, if you want to skip out on taking nice, hot baths together and cleaning each other up, that's your business.

Bathing in dungeons is for filthy plebs.

I can kinda see that- but not only is it a trade-of for the spell (lower chance to hit for additional damage and crit chance, as mentioned) it's also a trade-off compared to, say, a pure fighter, who due to having higher BAB would eventually just get that extra attack anyway AND have a higher chance to hit on EVERY attack, even before the Magus' -2 penalty.

Granted, I still think that a magus is head and shoulders above any fighter because there are more ways to buff damage, you can self-haste, you can eventually pull schenanigans with spell perfection, etc., but looking purely at low-to-mid-level damage output it's comparable to other pure melee classes

Why would you take a bath in a dungeon? You're just going to get dirty again, what with the monsters and all that. And besides, the bath water is probably cursed or has skeletons in it or something.

>Now that you can't mix styles
explain?

Dragon, Pummeling (if you go Dimensional Agility chain), Jabbing if you're a Dex UMonk.

You are the GM, and a player comes up to you and wants to play a Promethean/Preservationist Alchemist, but are worried they'll drag the party down by being useless. They see that Jolly's playtest has Injected Infusions, and that it will let them buff their allies, but they ask you about some way to apply these infusions at range. They also ask if they can trade a feat at 7th level in order to let their Homunculus gain the features of a martial PC class, with an effective class level equivalent to the Homunculus's total HD. The Homunculus retains all its standard abilities. Are these a reasonable requests? What limitations or alterations would you suggest? How could the alchemist player pitch this in a way that you would accept?

Bonus round: the alchemist asks you about this while you're already 6 levels deep into a campaign, and a new player recently joined. The new player picked a summoner, and for some bizarre reason, you okayed them to take Leadership.

Nah, not all dungeons are dangerous everywhere. And sometimes you just have to wash the blood, gore, and acid off before adventuring further.

Unchained doesn't have archetypes, so no Master of Many Styles, you can't mix styles, at best you can use one and as a free action (with a feat) change to another, but you can't use them at the same time, so no mixing Snake and Panther for example.

Unchained has like 3 or 4 archetypes. Personally I don't find any of them appealing.

Ah, I thought they might have dropped an errata or some shit that got rid of Master of Many Styles. You scared the shit out of me. Dragon is good for unarmed. Pummeling is good if DR is frequently something with which you deal. Grabbing or Kraken if you're going grapple.

But user.

You need line of sight and effect to a target to affect it with a spell.

This includes cleaning your body.

What?

Paizo is very casual about killing husbands, aren't they.

You can't shake a stick without killing some woman's man in their stories.

Oh quit your "virtue signalling"

3 or 4? I only know Fire serpent shit and mantis crap, both subpar as fuck

I give a counter-offer allowing them to trade 2 Alchemical Discoveries and/or feats as well as 1 extract of each level they can use per day, and i in exchange they can add the Polymath archetype so they can initiate maneuvers.

If they hadn't taken the Preservationist archetype I would have allowed their homunculous be able to get access to its own set of maneuvers and initiate them Ambush Hunter's animal companion.

They made a chakra monk (shit, but less shit than a chakra using non-chakra monk) and a scholar type monk in one of the occult books. There's probably more, but like I said I found not one appealing.

^ Ambush Hunter's animal companion.

This makes me wonder something I've never considered- does seeing something in a mirror count as line of sight?

Is there golarion book that actually delves into what arcane magic is?

Yup, if it's a normal mirror.

Arcane magic is magic that is neither divine magic nor psychic magic.

Divine magic is magic that is neither arcane magic nor psychic magic.

Psychic magic is magic that is neither arcane magic nor divine magic.

Divine magic comes from the gods
Psychic magic comes from soul itself
Where does arcane magic come from?

Interface Zero 2.0 for Pathfinder Kickstarter

kickstarter.com/projects/821979583/interface-zero-20-cyberpunk-action-for-the-pathfin

Anyone interested in this? Ive enjoyed the Savage Worlds version, not sure if I would wanna go d20 on it though.

You'd think a setting that's been out for almost a decade would talk about that, huh?

>Divine magic comes from the gods
Nope!

What happens if it's not a normal mirror and instead is showing something that's not really there?

Imagine, if you would, a hallway that comes to a 90 degree turn. At the corner is a mirror that has been enchanted to show the image of a orc guard, or something of the sort, even though there's actually nobody around the corner. A mage, looking at the false reflection without realizing there's nothing there, attempts to us the line of sight to cast a spell on the "guard". But because there's not actually a guard there, he doesn't actually have line of sight- he just thinks he does.

What happens? Is the spell wasted with no effect? If so, does the mage know as much and suddenly realize there's not actually anyone around the corner?

...

>Divine magic comes from the gods
Incorrect, it comes belief in concepts. Gods simply embody concepts and thus CAN give divine spell casting.

user please, it's always fun to point out trends in Paizo's wreck of a setting.

Druids and rangers?

I think it's best defined as (not divine nor psychic) and divine and psychic magic is already defined.

The fact that it has ToB 2: Electric Boogaloo and a sequel book to that so it has more content and variety of initiators and maneuvers than ToB itself did.

pastebin.com/aFs1H4qX

Ok here is the level 11 comparison.
My initial claim that a Warder could do close to or more damage than a Barbarian while being significantly more difficult to kill is only partially accurate.

The Warder will do less damage per turn while being significantly more survivable due to relevant AC and 100℅ reliable counters. The Warder's Damage can spike to pounce+witch hunter levels of damage on turns with relevant maneuvers open.

Sometime I'll see how Primal Disicple compares.

Religious waifus are cuter.

Psychic waifus can do hypnosis

How badly do I want this person into my campaign/how well do I know them? Asking for houserules is not a big deal by itself, but when the houserules are for the sole purpose of buffing your character concept, that seems like a potential red flag. Maybe we can work something out, but prepare to be disappointed. Particularly trading a feat to give some quite powerful and ill-defined benefits to your homonculus seems like quite a big deal. Maybe if you give me a run down of what exactly you want your homonculus to gain we can work something out.

>Bonus round
In a word, HELL no. Putting aside the issue of leadership, I'm not changing houserules in the middle of the game without a compelling reason. You being worried about maybe being useless is not one. I'll allow you to make some changes to the character or retire them entirely, and if you still insist on playing the same character and it turns out that you actually ARE useless, I'll find some way to power you up: maybe a custom magic item tailored for your character, for example.

Clerics, druids, experienced paladins, and experienced
rangers can cast divine spells. Unlike arcane spells, divine
spells draw power from a divine source. Clerics gain spell
power from deities or from divine forces. The divine force
of nature powers druid and ranger spells, and the divine
forces of law and good power paladin spells. Divine spells
tend to focus on healing and protection and are less flashy,
destructive, and disruptive than arcane spells.

CRB 220

Murder the summoner

Divine magic is granted by an outside source. This source doesn't have to be a god (see rangers, druids, oracles, etc). The source of divine magic may be god or may not be.

Psychic magic does come from inside your own soul.

Arcane magic comes from the world around you - it's simply a fundamental part of reality. By waggling your figures in a certain way and chanting the right magic words, you can summon up a fireball. The methods for tapping into this power source vary - some people do it naturally (like bards or sorcerers) but regardless it's simply a set of procedures that tap into something that is all around you.

See, the thing is half the time when people try to do this they get statistics on counter examples and just ignore it. I remember it mostly in the sex of rulers around the inner sea.

I don't fucking care about the perceived slights paizo has done to you I care about the fact fuckers shit up the thread with it.

and

di·vine1
dəˈvīn/
adjective
1.
of, from, or like God or a god.

So yeah it looks like Divine magic comes from a god, even for druids and rangers.

(you)

Gozreh is divine source for some nature based classes that cast divine spells
For those who do not want a god tacked, it is Green Faith
Green Faith is divine entity, but it does not have a personification.