It's the most stand up fight ship that the PHR have that isn't a battleship. Everyone else is vastly inferior to it. It's a good metric for the upper end of broadsides power
>youre missing a huge strength of PHR for easier tactics
No I'm not. The huge strength of PHR are 3+ save (hopefully) BTL & ECM frigates, great prolific carriers and terrifying battleships.
The broadsides for cruisers are not the factions main point anymore than stealth missiles are in DZC.
It's pretty obvious that unless there were major changes to some of the mid weight cruisers, they're going to be the Janus and Menchit A1's of DFC
Charles Parker
The Achilles might see use although if it shares a limited slot with other heavy cruisers it might be in for a benching.
That torpedo is a big deal and having a reliable 2 damage per turn per arc on HC's, BC's and BBs could be good
It just depends how much it costs. PHR is going to have to be pretty points efficient unless there's something else to them that we haven't heard about
Cooper Russell
>It's the most stand up fight ship that the PHR have that isn't a battleship. If that were true, it'd be outfitted with full mediums or with mediums and heavies. It's for gunning down smaller ships.
>The broadsides for cruisers are not the factions main point anymore than stealth missiles are in DZC. It's literally a design element shared by the entirety of the fleet! Every single combat ship except for the Pandora has broadsides, each side having firepower roughly equal to that of a comparative UCM ship.
Not utilizing that fact, and planning your tactics around it, is wasting half the firepower of your fleet, and even then you're not losing out that much since PHR can fire a full broadside on standard orders, and are only outmatched when the enemy goes weapons free.
Cooper Perez
desu the Icarus is probably going to end up being the Phobos of DFC: the mandatory standard choice unless you have a better idea.
I imagine PHR are going to be very bomber heavy, especially with the Bellaphron easily being one of the most optimized ships in the game
I eagerly await the stats for the escort carriers. I genuinely am curious if they will do one or two squadrons per turn
Christopher Peterson
From the BoW videos, Simon said that each side is slightly less firepower than an equivalent UCM cruiser But as you mentioned, they can fire everything on one side without needing weapons free.
PHR ships can't focus fire on one target like the UCM can, so they'll have to work together more to get around it.
The comparisons between the Moscow and the Leonidas assume both going weapons free, but the Leo would still have 20 dice to shoot at something else.
Kayden Wright
I think the Icarus can launch two squadrons, so my guess is the frigate will launch one.
Camden Bailey
>But as you mentioned, they can fire everything on one side without needing weapons free. This is another big thing; a Hector has the same firepower as an Orion at standards orders, without missing any potential firepower (since they're all in different arcs) 1v1. A moscow, is missing two heavy cannons and two medium cannons at standard orders. The opportunity cost for standard orders for the PHR in general is much, much lower.
Owen Long
>If that were true, it'd be outfitted with full mediums or with mediums and heavies. It's for gunning down smaller ships.
Considering it has more total firepower in one arc than any other non-BB ship in the PHR, it's the best you're going to get unless you just want to argue the PHR has zero stand up ships below the BB class.
Three of the four frigates don't have broadsides, the bellephron doesn't have broadsides, the Icarus broadsides are logical as they're there for anti harasser defense.
And my argument is specifically about the medium weight cruiser class broadside ships, plus the Hector. The LC, Ajax, frigate and Leonidas are all breddy okay because they specialize well (or in the Leonidas case, just smashed two cruisers together)
the Orion, Perseus, Hector and maybe Achilles are the current benchwarmers in my argument.
See this falls apart because that just means UCM can focus fire even better than PHR with multiple ships while broadsides PHR by design have to spread their damage across the whole enemy fleet.
While instead if you play to PHRs real strengths and use your amazingly prolific BTLs and carriers you can pull some suitably PHR level damage on single important targets
Michael Long
A Hector at standing orders will be doing less damage than my Bellephron who will also be shooting it's identical BTL while also launching 4 squadrons
Benjamin Brooks
I agree it will be a challenge to use broadsides to maximum effect, but do it right and although you can't focus fire the same as UCM, total damage output should be higher
Jaxson James
It will be more total damage but depends on their being enough ships with double arcs and enemy ships revealed to shoot.
While the BTL/Carrier or UCM fleet can just alpha one or two ships to death easily
Hunter Reed
I somewhat expect the yet to be revealed PHR BC to be 2x medium and 2x heavy
Ethan Carter
>Three of the four frigates don't have broadsides, the bellephron doesn't have broadsides Yes, the Pandora, the Andromeda, and the Bellerophon are the only combat ships out broadsides. That's a very small portion of their fleet.
>medium weight cruiser class broadside ships, plus the Hector So, the Orion and the Hector? That's just two ships, both of which are general purpose.
The Persus is a toolbox, rather than being general purpose, and the Achilles will be worth taking just for the torp.
>See this falls apart because that just means UCM can focus fire even better than PHR with multiple ships while broadsides PHR by design have to spread their damage across the whole enemy fleet. But you also get close to double the damage to spread around; PHR cruisers can threaten both halves of the board simultaneously, unless they're literally on the edge. Honestly, I think angle of attack to get enemy ships at the very front of your side arcs is going to be more important than getting stuck in the middle.
Jack Russell
>and enemy ships revealed to shoot. Which is what they'll need to do, reveal themselves, if they want to compete with the PHR broadside on standard orders.
Joshua Gutierrez
Right, this time, THIS TIME, I don't think I've fucked it up. PHR numbers for double banks included because these can still be fired without going Weapons Free. Obviously this assumed both banks are shooting at the same target, because whatever.
My conclusions: the UCM heavy mass driver turrets (do note that plural, it's two guns on the model but one profile) are a nasty piece of work, but (iirc) only the Moscow can have two, and apart from that the PHR broadsides stand up pretty well. Also, the shaltari are generally only looking at around 1 less damage for putting their shields up against these sets of weapons (although with their lower hullpoints that may be the difference between getting crippled and not).
Jaxon Long
>while also launching 4 squadrons Which can be delayed by range, as well as countered by PD and enemy fighters.
Kevin Sanders
>so the Orion and the Hector?
And the Perseus and Achilles.
>Perseus is a toolbox
It's a really shit tool box thats good at nothing and is inadequate against all targets.
>Achilles will be worth taking for the torp alone
That's why it's a maybe. It's going to come down to price point and what limitations are on the list building with heavy cruisers.
Great so we can go weapons free double broadsides after they've alpha'd our fleet
So? It's BTL + nothing versus BTL + fleet carrier launch assets for standard orders. The Hector is clearly inferior in offensive firepower on standard orders. The main difference is inevitably going to be points cost
Justin Edwards
And in the BoW video the conversation got really awkward when the PHR cruiser just got shit on while the two UCM ships were both slightly dinged
Eli Rivera
>It's a really shit tool box thats good at nothing and is inadequate against all targets. Broadsides, despite being able to fire together, can independtly target. It has the potential to maximize overall damage if it can get both a light and a heavy/superheavy ship on one side. In general though it'll be outmatched by the orion against averge targets.
>Great so we can go weapons free double broadsides after they've alpha'd our fleet And? Unless they get extraordinarily lucky, they're not going to cripple (or destroy) a huge portion of your fleet, and they're now open to your likely still superior firepower.
>nothing I thought someone was just complaining about PHR BTL being inferior? They'll be something for the Hector to fire while on approach.
Good work user, thanks!
Andrew Clark
>And in the BoW video the conversation got really awkward when the PHR cruiser just got shit on while the two UCM ships were both slightly dinged Wasn't it an Ajax, though?
Nolan Brooks
I seem to remember terrible dice in that situation as well.
John Baker
I've got a feeling it was an Ajax model, but they were using the Orion's rules as they're simpler.
Justin Moore
>broadsides can target separately
Oh Jesus, PHR already has the problem of spreading damage too wide across the enemy fleet and now you want to spread it more? Just take an Ajax or Achilles and have a good prow weapon
>PHR has inferior BTL
They actually do but that's because PHR just cut their BTLs in half, the Hector and Bellaphron have double BTL which equates one UCM BTL.
No the question was why you would take a Hector over a Bellaphron and the answer is you normally wouldn't. Both have dual BTL but the Bellaphron is a full fleet carrier which is terrifying while the Hector is just an Orion besides it's BTL. The difference between the two is clearly going to be in points cost and maybe carrier restrictions.
It was but the point was that even under completely average mathfleet commander situations, the Ajax (or Orion even) is going to do about 2 damage to the Rio and Moscow each while the Rio and Moscow will cripple the PHR cruiser.
It illustrates the problem with spreading damage
Austin Jones
While agree hawk aren't going to just change their minds over the pdf in a few days for us. I maintain that it's the wrong choice. I'm confident that none of privateerpress, mantic or Corvus belli think that they are lowering profits by giving out the rules for free either.
It makes sense that free rules will increase sales. Free rules allow players to try the rules without having to buy them, if they like the rules then they will go on to buy the rule book. If you don't make the rules free you are relying on the same thing happening just from youtube, cons and other players. It also creates a sense of transparency and openness with the user base and allows for easy errata.
That piracy is simple is indeed a valid concern, easy piracy means that those that intend to simply pirate the rules and never buy a copy of the book can and will. As such people are ostensibly the reason not to give out the rules for free it rather undermines the argument.
Hawk could give a mini update here in the comments to avoid the two updates close together issue.
Miniatures are non perishable I agree, wargames aren't though. My experience is that other than 40k/warmahordes clubs only play a wargame for a few weeks before dropping it. If someone invests in a new game now only to have DF arrive next week they are going to get fewer games out of them.
Jacob King
>enemy PHR fleet took all broadsides
>I just ball up all my UCM in glorious semi circle formation so he can't ever shoot double broadsides
>Yang Wen Li'd the shit out of these abandonists
Ethan Gomez
PHR will own you filthy human
Jayden Butler
>People arguing about the efficiency of broadsides when fighting against enemies with primarily forward facing firepower
>distinctly remember having to spam fighters and torpedoes to beat FW Tau as Imperials in BFG
I've fought this war before
Carter Phillips
What are you going to do, shoot me with 2/3rds my firepower?
>muh no weapons free
Get scanned
Michael Wilson
Remind me, with weapons of greater than 1 damage, do we know if it's >roll to hit - multiple hits by Damage - take saves or >roll to hit - take saves - multiply unsaved hits by Damage ?
Austin White
Will there be ramming?
Isaac Garcia
>Oh Jesus, PHR already has the problem of spreading damage too wide across the enemy fleet and now you want to spread it more? Just take an Ajax or Achilles and have a good prow weapon Spreading firepower is only a major problem when you have the same overall firepower as your opponent. The PHR will require more fleet coordination and better tactics than just "bunch up and focus them down", but I have a feeling they'll be extremely powerful if you can take advantage of enemy fleet movements.
>It was but the point was that even under completely average mathfleet commander situations, the Ajax (or Orion even) is going to do about 2 damage to the Rio and Moscow each while the Rio and Moscow will cripple the PHR cruiser.
>single PHR cruiser meant for fighting small ships (or just ships in general) goes up against a UCM cruiserand heavy cruiser >gets utterly wrekt while it does a little under half crippling damage to the rio, and a third of crippling damage to the moscow Gee whiz :^)
Jace James
>fighters and torpedoes >not nova cannons nova cannons are like duct tape
they solve every problem
Brody Green
>playing UCM >enemy PHR brought BTL Carrier fleet
>scans one of my ships, sacrificial lamb goes up and BTLs my BB putting another spike on it
>swarm of bees scour the wreckage of my fleet as entire Frat Houses disgorge onto the planet below
Cameron Peterson
I believe it's an armor save against each individual point of damage, unless its a crit, in which case all damage is unsaved.
Basically, 4 shots at 1 damage each will have 4 to-hit rolls, and possibly 4 to-damage rolls. 1 shot at 4 damage will have 1 to-hit roll, but 4 to-damage rolls.
I think so? I believe the qualifications were that the ramming ship has to be crippled, has to be within thrust range (obviously), has to be able to turn enough to hit the target (obviously), and has to have a certain ship size (so no frigates, I think).
It may be even further restricted with the ship having to be at a third or a fourth of its original DP, but I'm not entirely sure.
In any case, it's meant as a fun and semi-flavorful mechanic that you're not going to see a lot of, just like nuking cities.
Connor Price
I have a feeling spamming BTLs is going to be about equivalent
Jordan White
>LOL BALL UP TO AVOID PHR MULTI BROADSIDES!
Have fun losing all but one objective. People seem to forget that this game isn't built around solely killing the enemy fleet.
Justin Cruz
considering all I have to do is be pointed in the general direction of the objectives with my cruisers and let my frigates do their frigate hunting, I don't think it'll be as trivial of a strategy as you make it out to be, friend
Alexander Williams
>quote from guy putting 10 Orion's in a line straight down the middle of the board
Tyler Anderson
I think they also forget that ships don't block the movement of other ships. Given each ship is actually located as a dot on top of the flight stand you could just fly into the middle of said ball (may require taking some ships off their stands) and broadside away.
Jordan Moore
You can't end your movement with bases overlapping, genius
Jeremiah Jackson
Haven't heard that, and been following most of the info that's come out pretty religiously. We'll see when the final rules come out, I guess.
Nolan Cooper
>implying the sieve of Orion won't be high-tier meta Only the first and tenth Orions will be have one arc blocked off :^)
Colton Ward
There's one wargame still being played that RAW that allows bases to overlap.
That game is AOS.
>hey man I need to just switch a few things on my ship base here and add a peg can you just pick up your ship for a second
Cooper Miller
You can't in DZC either and you measure from stem there too.
Gabriel Turner
Do it with Ajax so you have 10 BTL too
Lincoln Wright
I like it, let's call it the "clean sweep"
Liam Morgan
A great hero on the Hawk forums made this and posted it there.
Can't find anything in the rulebook that actually specifies that, you got a page number? All I can find is pic related, which doesn't say anything that forbids balancing the flying base on top of other models. (I wouldn't actually do that, to be clear, but can't find a rule saying you can't do it.)
Nathan Howard
You know space battlan like this reminds me.
>tfw no Gargantia side series detailing the politics and battles of the Galactic Alliance vs the Hideauze
Nolan Watson
Bridges in wargames are seriously cool, they add a lot to how a battlefield feels tactically.
Camden Williams
Fuck me, that's cool
Jordan Walker
>L-look there's nothing in the rules saying I can't put my seraphim directly on top of your Hades as long as it stays balanced
Chase Diaz
>not suspending all your flyers with wires from rollers mounted on the ceiling >not embedding your table with magnets, and then attaching room temperature superconducting magnets to your skimmers
Dominic Rodriguez
Fine, then I overlap all my cruisers bases to where you can't fit your own anywhere inside.
Ryan Scott
Your formation will disperse after one turn, unless you have them all traveling the same direction, or station keeping :^)
Landon Ramirez
Oh no 3" forward every turn
Carson Morris
4"* :^)
Christopher Powell
>the look on Chads face was pricelessly smug. >his fleet obliterated and his last few strike carriers being mopped up, he knew he had victory even though the UCM now had complete control of the planet >his eyes were alight with satisfaction as his opponent moved his last ship, now clearly in Chads own deployment zone.
>"at least the bastard never had the opportunity to turn" as his opponent declared he was launching a nuke at the one remaining PHR outpost
Caleb Wright
>entire enemy fleet is bunched up in a single doom ball >doesn't take this chance to line up on both sides of them, just outside of their sensor range, and let fly shit Chad tbqh
Kevin Rodriguez
>just outside sensor range
scanning frigates
;^)
Elijah Morales
>rare choice ;^)
Cameron Taylor
>baselines and xenos will deny that this ship is aesthetic as the sphere itself
Tyler Miller
>No one cares abandonist scum
Make way for humanity motherfuckers
Jose Scott
Yeah, and it fucking sucks. It's such a boring way to fight.
Why does no one get broadsides right? Even the beta testing games seemed to show that PHR only wins when they go full carrier.
Blake Jenkins
[rapidly color shifting spines]
Cooper Ward
>Why does no one get broadsides right? How do you do broadsides right?
Austin Gomez
Francis?
Josiah Ortiz
Force everyone to use them equally.
Owen Kelly
Kek
Owen Wood
You either make them incredibly killy or you make the ships with them incredibly tanky. I feel like Hawk are going in the right direction, but should have made PHR ships more durable.
On or two HP more is not much of a boon when your opponents hit harder. I'm guessing Calypsos will see a lot of use.
Sebastian Mitchell
I'm thinking unless the calypso is a rare choice it's going to be near auto include, which isn't necessarily bad since that's a very unique ship and describes the faction well
Jeremiah Thompson
Got a tag team just for you hedgehog.
Kayden Perez
[muffled SKREEEE]
Lincoln Ortiz
Last chance to fuck off to the Shaltari worlds Jelly.
Pain train is coming for the cradle.
Carson Miller
[amused SKREEEEE]
Tyler Gomez
Do we have any close-up shots of the fighter bays of ships like on 's pic?
Carter Morales
...
Michael Torres
I'm still surprised Dave broke his "everything perfectly to scale" rule for DfC fighters. I'm not sure how else we could represent them, though.
Jaxon Cooper
>unique launch assets when
Ayden Moore
Dave said never. Get a 3d printer
Gabriel Young
>Scourge invasion fleets take Ferrum and smash their way through the United Colonies >UCM throws everything at the Cradle Worlds and evacuates en masse to their slightly bombed out (and only a little bit moldering!) reclaimed territories TECHNICAL VICTORY
Jason Wright
>Implying recreationaly available 3D printers are capable of that level of detail
Lincoln Bailey
>Dave said never. Get a 3d printer
>implying Daves autism will let him keep that promise
Hudson Bell
Firestorm armada ones were alright though I can completely understand wanting them to stand up off the table just like all the other ships.
Robert Price
FSA is 1:10,000 scale. DfC is 1:15,000. Kind of a big difference.
Christian Lopez
>1:15,000 What? It's 1:9150 scale.
Landon Campbell
Does anybody have a high-resolution version of the pic on phase 1 pg 14 & 15? It's the one with the scene of the bar on Aurum with a view out the window of a bunch of dropships. It looks like it would make a super nice 3-monitor wallpaper.
Running the actual numbers given in the sample rulebook pages compared to the given dimensions of the models, among other sources, gives you 1:9150 scaling.
Connor Moore
>This blister pack can be assembled as either a Beijing, New York or Tokyo class battleship. It is cast in exceptionally tough impact resistant resin and white metal and features extraordinary detail. 1:9150 (0.2mm) scale.
Hold up, if the avenger is 12 feet long at 10mm scale, that'd make it .12 feet long at .1mm scale, but it's actual length is aproximately .2 feet long.
The scale is .2mm, which is roughly 1:9150
Ryan Stewart
Any word when DFC ships to the US? I haven't been paying close attention, I just check in one in a while. As I recall we were supposed to get it by now.
Ian Morgan
>As I recall we were supposed to get it by now. Hawk was hoping* to have it shipped out by the end of august, but they're waiting for some final printed components for X Y and Z reasons.
No firm date on when shipping does start, but the courier service will deliver it to you within 2-3 days for the US after the shipping announcement.
Brayden Moore
Thanks, friend.
Oliver Gray
Lads help, I'm in love with this ship.
Jaxon James
>the only terrifying broadsides in PHR >12 heavy shots per side, fore cannon that insta kills non frigates in low orbit >one crippled enemy cruiser per arc per turn
Nicholas Martin
heavy shots per side, fore cannon that insta kills non frigates in low orbit A-user, I... AdmiralAnon said it was only 6 ;_; I hope he was just rusing us