The party learns that the rebellion has valid economic and cultural concerns regarding their conquerors...

Sounds fun.
Though frankly, fantasy needs more bad rebels. The Stormcloaks being racist and possibly playing into the hands of the High Elves was a nice touch, contrasted with the Empire's legitimate military needs and casual mass executions of suspects.

So why not consider the pros of each side and come to a mutually beneficial compromise instead of putting both the security of the empire at risk by devoting resources to quelling a rebellion while simultaneously giving at least some ground on those economic and cultural concerns?

Seriously. The problem is that this empire lets extremists who won't see the middle ground as a beneficial point hold office and command troops, so the only people who people can believe will do anything about it are equally unstable and undesirable zealots on the other side.

> Stormcloaks are racist! Look at how they treat khajiit caravans, they won't even let them into the cities.
> All the khajiit you meet in the game are thieves, smugglers and drug traders
What did Bethesda mean by this?

MY ANCESTORS ARE SMILING AT ME IMPERIALS

Eh. OP is an acceptable casualty, but really, I just want to depopulate the land to fuel a dark ritual to grant myself unlimited power.

All the khajeet you play as are heroes

I got so pissed in my first playthrough of Skyrim when I did the Stormcloak quest until the end and there was no "Kill Ulfric and usurp the throne" option. I would have given the elves and lizardfolk in Windhelm a worthy life. Goddammit.

And, incidentally, all of the khajiit you play as are allowed into the cities.

> All the khajiit you meet in the game are thieves, smugglers and drug traders

It's been years, but I'm pretty sure that's not the case. Most, ok. Even makes sense lorewise that most of the ones you meet be

pressed enter beforehand, sorry.

Makes sense lorewise that most khajiit be "criminal" and "lowlife" (i.e., marginalized populations forced to live in the margins, obviously), but not all, otherwise Bethesda would be risking siding with the racist stormcloaks, and that's definitely not gonna happen as long as they need to sell games for a living. So I'm sure if we look at the wiki we'll find some heroes.

I'll just join whichever one pays more while still giving me a pretty good chance of surviving..

See if skyrim ended up being a TTRPG story, I think most players would've just fucked over the dominion. But can't have too many varying endings to games, that would make sequels harder

"Okay these dudes are racist but can't worship their God, but these other guys need their warriors to protect themselves against the true oppressors. Why the fuck not just agree to fight the dick ass elves that are fucking shit up?"

>bethesda writing

Sounds interesting. Not sure why you posted a picture from Skyrim though, seeing as the Stormcloaks are regicidal shit disturbers more concerned with 'making their point' than doing anyone the slightest bit of good.

Yeah, OP made it sound like the Stormcloaks aren't basically some edgy teenagers

(((((((((You)))))))))

>religious oppression isn't a legitimate reason to rebel

>implying that realpolitik can be safely ignored

It was obvious the Empire was gearing up for Round 2 from the very end of the first war.

Give and take, user. All they had to do was fucking sit tight and wait for the Empire to get its collective shit together. And they got impatient, threw a fit, and now the religious oppressors are in a stronger position for it.

I just wanted to offer some help to Alduin...

Agreed. The peace treaty was just a bid for time so the Empire could rebuild and push back against the Dominion. The Altmer knew that the Nords would take the removal of Talos from the pantheon to heart, I'd say at least half the reason why they put that in the treaty was to start the civil war and weaken the Empire. Ulfric is just playing right into the Dominion's hands.

Gives the most XP too. Nobody hands out commensurate rewards for attending fancy balls.

...

>the conquerors
... aren't people who conquer an area an external threat?

The drug traders thing does make sense, cause moon sugar is a legit religious thing to most Khajiit.

Beyond that, I assume its a combination of being lazy (complex and varied characters takes work that Beth clearly doesn't want to do) and the zoomed in scope of Skyrim limiting how much they can show so they cut down it down to get everything in. Not defending that, just stating that its their way of doing it which comes with necessary drawbacks.

Also, no one lets in Khajiit caravans. Which makes a bit of sense, considering how small even the walled hold cities are ingame.

Because you need to keep that dragon coiled. Can't let it flow even for a second.

Considering Ulfric was a Dominion sleeper agent, that's exactly what happened.

However, the Empire was a corrupt and morbidund collective that had already lost one of it's holdings. They banked too much on the proud warrior races accepting a humiliating peace where they get policed by the elven inquisition, which came right as the war was turning.
The timing of the treaty made it look like then Empire was too cowardly/weak to continue the fight, now that it swing in their favour.
Hammerfest told the Empire to fuck off first.
No wonder the Nords followed suit.
If the Empire wasn't ruled by idiotic stuffed jackets and just as willing to execute a person as confirm their guilt, it may have gone better.

Ulfric is a fecal elemental, but the Empire isn't better.

A thread about a genuinely interesting political situation, that the party can choose to involve themselves with however they please?

That's Veeky Forums as fuck, what the hell are you talking about?

>The Stormcloaks being racist
>implying skyrim doesn't belong to the nords

Best solution; High Rock, Nibenay, and Skyrim all break off from the Empire and form a military alliance with Hammerfell and the rebels in Valenwood and Elsweyr.

You get skirmishing light infantry that causes attrition like all hell, two separate traditions of battlemages to fill the centers of battle lines, a bunch of people who have no problem jumping straight first into battle because that's the only way for them to get to heaven, the best stealth archers in the series that can be fed off the corpses of their fallen enemies, all monetarily supported by a continent wide drug ring.

>straight first
head first

Best solution is the dragonborn just goes full Talos, steals Ulfrics thunder by proclaiming himself emperor, and then kills a bunch of elves and important imperials

That's sort of beyond the scope of those horrible civil war quests though

>Hammerfell

You do know that the general who was in charge of Hammerfell when the Emperor demanded that the legions return to Cyrodiil and retake the Imperial City discharged all of his walking wounded so that they could stay and fight the Dominion in Hammerfell?

The Empire cut ties with Hammerfell so that they could continue the fight without the yoke of the Empire around their necks. The Imperials did the Redgaurds a favor, and any sensible Redguard knows this.

More than that, the Emperor gained plausible deniability. There are no legionnaires in Hammerfell, they were all discharged. Hammerfell is not part of the Empire, so it's not the Empire fighting (and most importantly, winning) against the Dominion, it's Hammerfell itself.

When the Empire gets its shit together and is able to kick the Dominion's smug teeth in, the Redguards will be there right alongside the rest.

My first TES game was Redguard. I am an unapologetic Redguard player in every TES game, from Arena to Skyrim.

Hilarious thing about the rebellion- take a look at the map of Tamriel. The Empire, at the start of Skyrim, consists of three provinces; High Rock, Cyrodil, and Skyrim. Skyrim is the ONLY link between the other two provinces. Hammerfell is unfriendly to the Empire, the Dominion is stronger on the seas AND any sea travel requires going past Dominion territory. In addition, both of the non-Skyrim provinces have immediate land or sea borders with Aldmeri provinces and/or aldmeri military hotspots.

So, Skyrim, a province that never saw direct war against the Aldmeri, and is the only link between the other provinces, wanted to rebel against the provinces that actually saw war, leaving the Empire split in twain and vastly weakened. The Empire would then be devoured by the united Aldmeri, surrounding Hammerfell and finally giving Skyrim a direct war.

Conclusion; Nords are cowards and traitors with less courage than the least Bosmer. I respect the Altmer more as a warrior race than Nords. At least they're ONLY traitors.

See the thing about the aldmeri dominion is that they sadly got every card in their deck stacked to them.

Their warriors are all great, their magicians are the best, several artifacts protect their homeland along with natural magic and they have layer upon layers of illuminati style spy networks.
It took a time deleting mecha made from the corpse of a dead god to make them step back and go "Aight we gotta change our strats here boyos.".
Worst thing is, they're not conquerer. They want to murder everyone and not just leave themselves alive. No they want everything dead because they believe when life ends, so do the shackles that hold them to the earth.

The TES worlds future has been confirmed to have no happy ending by MK himself, no matter who you choose. In fact defeating alduin was basically meaningless if you're not playing an piss elf yourself since his end of the world would've at least removed them too.

>I would have given the elves and lizardfolk in Windhelm a worthy life.
>squandering Nord taxpayer money to increase the gibsmedats of Mer refugees and some lizards who are completely out of their element in the region
If you want to be an utter cuck, you can just support the Thalmor instead.

>I am an unapologetic Redguard player
As well you should be. Every other race is, at best, mediocre-tier.

>i.e., marginalized populations forced to live in the margins, obviously
Maybe they wouldn't be marginalised and forced to live at the margins if they weren't criminals and engaged in clean business instead of stealing and dealing drugs.

Now the Orsimer are actually unjustly ostracised for little reason. They may be a violent culture with estranging social norms, but they don't chimp out at other races or engage in illegal activities.

It's not related to any role-playing games, though. :^)

Nah, the darkies can grow food anywhere. Remember ash yams? Just clear out some bandits and tell the delves to make a farm there. Fewer bandits, more food, everyone wins. Argonians are also cheap labor; they'll do for five septims what a Nord would demand twenty. Just make sure they got a decent jacket and they're fine. Hell, in the greener regions they don't even need a jacket during the summer.

Okay, see, I would be, but I really like pale skin. Like, a lot.

Redguard was a fantastic game and I'm honestly disappointed about the lack of good fencing mechanics in most other games as a result.

MK hasn't worked on anything TES-related in over a decade. He is not a reliable source for lore.

>Argonians are also cheap labor; they'll do for five septims what a Nord would demand twenty. Just make sure they got a decent jacket and they're fine. Hell, in the greener regions they don't even need a jacket during the summer.
If they're cold-blooded, the cold, even with a jacket (and gloves, and boots, and a fur hat) will still slow them down. Meanwhile a Nord worker wouldn't be affected, wouldn't need to take as many breaks to farm himself up at the fire, and you wouldn't need to invest in warm clothes for him since he could just work in his everyday attire.

>Okay, see, I would be, but I really like pale skin. Like, a lot.

Noted for inferior race.

>Every other race is, at best, mediocre-tier.
This land strider is forgetting the true heroes of the Oblivion Crisis.

If the Empire gets it's shit together.
The ruling dynasty is gone, and the Skyrim war eroding much credibility and resources.
What does Cyrodil bring to the table?
Other than corruption and politicking that is.
The Nords and Redguards are better as independent actors, forcing then Aldmerei to spread thin and divide attention.

>Cut out the useless Imperials
Bingo. Now we have a winning team.

Given the Nord tendency of betraying wartorn provinces, I'd be real wary of allying with them if I was a Redguard.

Source?

Because that is baller as fuck if true

>Nibenay
>Imperials
There is at least as much ethnic difference between the inhabitants of Nibenay and Colovia as there is between Skyrim and Nibenay.

That's the thing, though. Argonians are shit everywhere EXCEPT black marsh. This leads me to believe that the true power, then, is not actually the Argonians themselves, but the Hist. Which makes sense, really, because the Argonians basically exist to serve the needs of the Hist.

Not him, but The Infernal City.

I think I saw references in in game sources, but I don't recall where they are.

>redguard

My brother.

I did not mean to cut Nibenay, just the greater Cyrodil region.
For the most part, the capital is shit.

Ally of convenience, don't expect anything other than the Nords to be factitious and quarrelsome. Let the Altmer try to control or contain them. Just stay out of the way and let them chaotic stupid derp at the enemy.

That's what you get when you abandon your pseudo-amaranths; you turn into a total bitch.

>I did not mean to cut Nibenay
Ah, okay. Really though, its the culture of City Isle that needs to be purged. Just stop supplying it for like three months and let everyone eat each other; you'll solve most problems with the empire.

Bethesda is just being inconsistent to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Khajiit where slaves in morrowind so that means that they should be poor oppressed victims. When in reality they were slaves because Elsweyr has a thriving slave trade and sold khajiiti slaves to the dunmer. The drug handler part makes sense as moonsugar is a religious sacrement to the khajiit and does not affect them the same way it affects other races.

Their true power is hist mutations not having a stated limit and a matt ward tier writer working on them.

>heroes
>bethesda pc
you don't get much more murder hobo in a video game, user

>tfw you realize Ulfric won't listen to reason because every non-Nord he's trusted has backstabbed him and this entire war is just an extended panic attack on his part
>it's half PTSD and half "abused child lashes out at everyone in the area even though none of them had anything to do with it"

>tfw you realize Paarthurnax could have prevented this

Sounds like it's time for some kind of third party to dance on in there and tip the scales against both of them while being morally superior and settling things in an unviolent manner. Like some sort of conga line for peace.

It's kind of a cycle. Khajiit are nomadic, which automatically causes the Nords (and most humans for that matter) to view them with suspicion. To an entire society of people that put down roots and then don't move from that place until forced to by extenuating circumstance, someone who moves around a lot seems sketchy. To them, the only reason to do that is because you're worried that if you stay in one place too long, people will figure you out.

This makes it had for Khajiit to find legitimate work. No one really trusts them. Consequently, they turn to crime to get by, using their natural stealthiness to accel as thieves and assassins. This creates a stereotype of Khajiit as criminals, making it even harder for them to find work, and on and on.

It's not entirely human xenophobia, of course. The Khajiit have always been naturally stealthy and so are often employed as spies and the like.

The Khajiit also have a close, very close relationship with the Altmer. The moons (which the Khajiit have a very deep magical and spiritual connection with) had disappeared for a while and threw the Khajiit into chaos. When they returned, the Altmer claimed to have used their magic to bring them back, and the Khajiit have basically worshipped them as saviors ever since. Considering that the elves and the humans have been at war since Talos first came to Tamriel, it does make sense that humans would be suspicious of someone with such a high opinion of their sworn enemy.

In Skyrim, it's pretty clear that the White-Gold Condordat is really, for practical purposes, nothing more than a cease fire until the empire can rally its strength to take on the Thalmor again. Everyone is well aware of this, and using Khajiit caravans as a cover to sneak spies and saboteurs into fortified human cities would be among the least underhanded and immoral things the Thalmor do/have done.

>an ancient dragon who has overcome his desire to rule and dominate through meditation and teaching
>caring a whit about baby Ulfric's skinned knee
>"Oh yes, I should definitely intervene in the affairs of man and mer, it's not at all against the entire reason I went up to the top of the Throat of the World and sat there for a thousand years."

Y'know what else could have prevented this? If Ulfric hadn't made a huge fuss about restoring Talos worship when he took Markaarth. According to Alvar, everyone had their own little Talos shrine, screw the treaty.

But then Ulfric made a stink about it, the Imperials in charge caved, and the Dominion got wind of it. And now you have the Dominion in Skyrim persecuting people, and Ulfric dick waving with his Stormcloak Rebellion.

>In fact defeating alduin was basically meaningless if you're not playing an piss elf yourself since his end of the world would've at least removed them too.

Except Alduin didn't want to do his job and end the world, he wanted to rule it with his dragon buddies.

The best end is to kill the Blades, kill Alduin, kill Paarthurnax, kill the Emperor, kill the General, kill Ulfric, declare yourself King of Dragons by right of dominance, and ride Odahviing into battle.

Granted, the Nords also despise the Dark Elves, which is a bit harder to excuse than their xenophobia towards the Khajiit. The Dunmer aren't entirely victims either, though. Even though they don't have very strong ties to the Altmer, they DID enslave the bulk of the Argonians until their entire society was crippled by the eruption of Red Mountain. Plus they're another bunch with a well-earned reputation for being sneaky.

So a big part of it probably is just Nords being racist, but all of that also goes a long way toward explaining why even the much more tolerant Imperials are wary of Khajiit. In short, the Nords' distrust is justified, although it may be partially motivated by less-than-rational feelings.

Incidentally, OP's post sums up something taht I really like about Skyrim: there's isn't a clear-cut good and bad guy. Both sides make valid points, both sides have valid concerns, and both sides have valid complaints against the other.

I do wish the Civil War arc was fleshed out more, with more options. Why not decide both sides should be destroyed; neither has any business being in charge. The Imperials are chauvinistic, well, imperialists, while the Nords are impulsive, irrational, short-sighted racists. Topple both regimes and give the residents of Skyrim a clean board from which to start a new one. Also, the option to switch sides, and maybe even a "tipping point" quest where you witness/are asked to do something that you might consider crossing the line and would motivate you to defect. Also, why are you allowed to wander freely around Stormcloak-controlled turf and even walk into the fucking Hall of Kings wearing Imperial armor, and vise versa?

They could have made a whole separate game with the amount of stuff they could have added to the Civil War arc and didn't.

Wood elf for life here though. Got muh giant tree, and muh cannibalistic tendencies and muh brown elf waifus. What more could a man want?

Mostly he could have prevented it by telling Ulfric it wasn't worth it to leave High Hrothgar.

I mean, what non-Dragonborn in his right mind would have gone against wisdom from a dragon?

If the imperials weren't constantly getting their shit pushed in and hadn't agreed to a peace treaty that doomed them to a slow death, you might have a point

>Believing the butthurt general who's totally sure he can win with just a few more soldiers

>Kill Ulfric
>Meet him in sovenguard
>"Fuck, I was a Thalmor puppet! I shouldn't had rebelled!" he says himself.

Ok.

>the party learns that the rebellion has xenophobic and racist tendencies, but that the conquerors are cucks that got their shit pushed in by them slanty eyed high elves

The party decides in accordance to their characters.

Like human fucking beings

You know, my main issue with it all was that you couldn't take your rightful place as Emperor, what, with the dragon blood in your veins.

>dragon blood in your veins
no
>rightful place as emperor
The emperors were a different kind of dragonborn and being dragonborn is neither a requirement or a right to be the emperor.

How is Talos a different kind of Dragonborn to the main character of Skyrim?

He made himself Emperor, nothing would stop the Dovahkiin from doing exactly the same thing. Unless you think the supposed lore that the Thalmor cannot be beaten is anything but stupid.

>listening to kikebride
I bet you think c0da is canon.

Easy there Miraak.

He has though.
Hes not in direct control but todd basically gave him final say. Not officially or even paid.

Having friends in high places help.

And why should my lizardman even care? He's just here to do stealth archery.