/pfg/ - Pathfinder General

I did not actually make the UC Swashbuckler, this has been a misconception that has happened before since we both work on non-initiating martials.

I'm thinking of running a campaign for my players that is

all paizo line products
DSP's path of war and path of war expanded (possibly psionics I still need to read the books)
20 pointbuy
and possibly gestalt

the game would be a lot of standard fantasy stuff and heavily inspired by pillars of eternity and also probably have a few arcs about old crumbled civilizations and their histories and legacy's - and possibly things that should've stayed buried with those civilizations

do you think my players will enjoy something like this?

Fighter is what you make of it. It works as a generic chassis for martial-inclined concepts for when you either don't want to use another class or no other class really fits the concept you have in mind. Knight in the shining armor? Sure. An archer who just shoots to kill, with no magic or fancy tricks? Can do.

Whatever fighting style you have in mind, a fighter can do it competently - not as well as a class dedicated to it, necessarily, but you can deal at least acceptable amounts of damage. You won't not be able to do much else(a few specific archetypes notwithstanding), but you can stab/maul/shoot things to death.

You know your players better than we do, dude. Just because /pfg/ thinks your setup is bitching doesn't mean your players won't hate it, and just because /pfg/ thinks your setup sucks doesn't mean your players won't enjoy it.

Only if I can play the Unchained Fighter

Yeah, some people have opinions and stuff, which doesn't mean they aren't objectively wrong, but they can have them and it can be what they like. Even when it's bad, but it's still okay because their opinion is that it's good.

>All these degenerates that fell for lasts thread's game.

/pfg/ is so easily baited.

>Haha, look at those fools willingly joining a game they might enjoy!
>What idiots! I have no interest in joining that game and the existence of it will probably pass from my memory by tonight, but I hope whoever joined it feel duped!

I don't know if there's any of its writers here but Pain Sculptor seems pretty cool. The initial "regenerating THP pool" thing seems kinda wonky but the rest of the blood stuff and the functional poisons seem pretty cool.

Is there a reason for the "convert to bleed damage" ability besides triggering blood spurt? Like i guess it can convert real hp damage into THP damage but making it bleed means its going to do way more than it would otherwise. I was expecting it to be at like a "converts damage to bleed at half level damage per bleed" style of thing.

To me the immunity/thp pool thing seems kinda weird in the same way burn is stupid for kineticists. Can't psywars already self heal with power points? Is rejuvenating between battles really worth all this?

>49361647
m8, it was pretty much obvious it was a ruse. The poster suddenly "vanishing" when everyone found out that the discord link is not working and all.

>49361714

Ah, that. I guess you're right.

Well, the immunity thing is optional, you don't have to use it. so if you don't know what you'll be fighting, you can just be neutral. But if you're expecting to deal with a ton of archers, you can grab piercing immunity.

The thing with bleed damage is that it can't stack. So if you're already bleeding for 1, and an enemy hits you, 1 point is converted to bleed. But you already have bleed 1, so that point is negated. It's DR/- after the first hit each turn.

Ah i didn't realize that. Still, it doesn't really directly reduce the damage of any attack that isn't hitting your "real" hp, so it seems a little shit. I don't know, it just feels like the area of the archetype that could use the most work.

Added a bunch of new stuff to the Unchained Cavalier! Six new Oaths, bringing the total number to 25. Which is probably prudent considering you get 9 Oaths over the course of leveling up.

The new ones are mainly for upgrading your mount! Such abilities as being able to make turns during a charge, improved natural attacks, going without rest, fitting into small spaces, and more! This is aimed to make riding a mount, particularly in a dungeon, less restrictive. I may add some more aimed as mount survivability (improved natural armor likely).

I also added a feats section for grabbing extra Banners and Oaths. Below is the link which can be commented on, and attached is a Handy Dandy PDF.

docs.google.com/document/d/12s2kjayDkuBLYZ4ao9EDqo5aUJ2XqG6w9Kcr3zPyAKM/edit?usp=sharing

Do you have any wild west appropriate homebrew?

Bleed damage overlaps, rather than stacking.

If you convert, say, 5 damage from one hit into bleed, you can then convert 5 damage from every further hit you take that round into bleed, taking 5 less damage per hit after the first.

It's like a better DR that also triggers your defensive abilities.

Quick question /pfg/

All of my players have very well min-maxed their skills so they're constantly rolling >25s for knowledge/diplomacy/etc. How should i balance social and non combative encounters so it keeps encounters from being auto-successes without it seeming unfair that they don't gain anything out of rolling a 35 check?

What level? Also have you considered conditional modifiers and penalties to checks and DC?

Apply penalties to certain situations or put them up against people with high wis/cha. Don't forget diplomacy takes at least one minute, so put them in situations where they have less time than that.

You adjust the scale of your game.

You're at the point where someone recalls important secrets and really obscure knowledge off-hand, and has diplomacy/bluff/etc that could start (or end) wars, raise armies, and the like.

You should be upping the scale to match. If someone's a worthy adversary, then they will probably have similar skills. If they aren't, then let them succeed.

We're around level 5 right now
Alright, I'll look into that. Thanks for the tips

I'm sorry but no. My next project is the Unchained Gunslinger which may be more up your alley. None of the current stuff has specific gun support. I should add that as the 4th conceptual cavalier archetype though. It would fit.

cody is that you

So I'm thinking about building a one off me and friends jokingly called "Slappers Only". The plan is to get rid of the existence of manufactured weapons and have everyone use unarmed strikes instead. The concept is really bare bones right now, but I'll post my ideas so far.

In order to achieve the right level of absurdity, I was going to give every character improved unarmed strike for free. The following were a few ideas on how to take the idea even further and I was wondering what you guys thought about it.

- Tie unarmed strike damage to bab or hit dice, so full bab is d8, 2/3 is d6 and half is d4?

- Have monks only be for NPC boss fights so the players need to get creative with their builds

- Give feats like Adder Strike, Crusaders fist, Hex strike, bloodline strike or domain strike easier prerequisites or allow them to be taken as bonus feats

How do you guys think this would go? Do you have any other suggestions?

What are they using to accomplish that?

Remember that diplomacy isn't mind control. Even the skill description says: "Some requests automatically fail if the request goes against the creature’s values or its nature, subject to GM discretion." This doesn't mean you should stonewall them, but you don't need to roll over, either. For instance, if they're going into a city where carrying weapons simply isn't allowed* if you're an outlander(except for specific exceptions, like nobles)? The barbarian isn't going to get through with his greatsword hanging from his shoulder, no matter how high they roll on diplomacy. But, if they phrase their requests right, the guards might settle for seeing the greatsword peacebonded to its scabbard and packed away rather than confiscating it to be returned when they leave the town. Diplomacy should be helpful, but that doesn't meant it always needs to outright solve things by itself.

*blah blah magic blah blah. Yeah, not a particularly sensible rule in a typical PF setting, but it's just an example.

youtu.be/BwBKjK7Xik0

are religious character crutches for rp?

No more than noblemen, orphans, or any other sort of general background. "Is deeply/moderately/lightly religious" can be a very useful character trait with which someone views the world through, just like growing up poor or rich, or constantly-traveling, or with a very large family can paint how a person sees things.

What would make you think they are? Religion is just another facet of characterization, so if anything by disregarding it you're simplifying roleplaying for yourself.

Only if their religion is all there is to them

Depends on the religion itself, how religious they are, and how they view their own faith and the faith in others. There is, however a lot of wiggle room in this

Short answer: no, unless they're super lazy about it.

Pick a god from golarion
See the alignment of that god and its tenets
Base character on those things
There done

Had a party that was a Cleric, Inquisitor and Warpriestbof Irori, none of us the same alignment or personality, so I'd disagree

Was meant for

Only if you're bad at it. You can as easily play a stereotypical wizard or soldier.

man pathfinder dragons look retarded

Hey, assuming I actually write it, would anyone be interested in an open playtest for Legendary Kineticist II with the unchained kineticist?

That's green dragons. Blues and reds actually look pretty decent.

Always, man.

>Unchained Kineticist
Pic related, but only if you can get your other Kineticist material and the Avant Guard to still work with it.

so what is the next book paizo is gonna write

Good to know, I'm working on KOP 4 at the moment, but I'm hoping I can keep the band together to do LK II as well as my swan song to the class.

TECHNICALLY it should; some of you may have already seen the rough designs for the unchained kineticist which changed very little. The overall vibe for the unchained kineticist is keeping everything working with all the old material I wrote, and yet introducing new fixes and tweaks that are more light changes to the chassis rather than massive overhauls. I like the class a lot, but there's small changes I'd make that'll hopefully make things better.

Soleil is life.

>unchained kineticist?
Will it be as cool as the Dragon Archetype you made? How compatible will it be with other Kineticist Archetypes?

But who's better, Soleil or Best DSP Developer?

I want to play a Dex-based TWF scimitar-wielding Lore Warden/Martial Master/Myrmidon Fighter. I know I'll need Weapon Finesse, deadly ability, and the TWF feats. What disciplines that the Myrmidon gets combo well with the number of attacks that TWF grants, and a Dex focus?

I'm hoping so, and like I said, there's a lot of light changes, like wild talents auto scaling, some more burn mitigation, and other things like that. I don't want to write an unchained version that won't work with my own content. For most archetypes that don't alter burn, this should slot in perfectly (since I'm writing burn changes obviously).

Soleil > Forrest
Sorry Forrest.

>For most archetypes that don't alter burn, this should slot in perfectly (since I'm writing burn changes obviously).
Whelp, there goes hopes of using Avant Guard and Gambler. Someone will probably have to make the homebrew conversions

So, the one feedback on the UC cavalier I have received so far has simply been "I don't like it". Does anyone have further comments on it or the other classes? I would very much like to improve them, but perhaps that will have to wait until actual playtesting occurs.

Well to be fair, the only changes I have planned for burn is it doesn't deal damage. Some people have chided me for this for making it 'boring', but at the same time, I'd rather go boring and functional.

Why not make it based on something similar to the stamina system? Still constitution based, recovers slowly (and therefore not in combat) but doesn't lock someone down for a day or make them vulnerable to getting killed.

How might one go about homebrewing a warpriest archetype that trades out the cleric-y parts for Oracle stuff instead?

Why would you when Oracles already make for excellent battle characters?

I'd enjoy it. Invite me to your game please.

If/when I playtest it, I'll be sure to take advice like that into consideration, since for something of this magnitude, I'd really like community input.

I actually like it when a player makes a religious character in a game, especially when they're part of an order or other organization.

Maybe they are?

if you live in southernish ontario you're free to come out

>man pathfinder dragons look retarded
Be careful, it's a cunning trick. In reality they're only pretending.

You could ask the same thing about base warpriest versus Cleric. Personally? I just want a divine+spontaneous Cha-based gish, AND something that poaches oracle curses and Mysteries. Preferably that isn't a fucking wizard. Which also preferably stacks with Champion of the Faith.

>Blue Dragons vehemently despise Andoran
>Andoran puts a blue dragon on their flag

DEVIOUS.

I would trade Heavy Armor and Tower Shields for a curse, channel energy for Revelations and a mystery, and grant the Warpriest some of the mystery spells

So, I'm a big fan of cavalier, and I've played it a bunch, sometimes its just a silly charging character, sometimes you stack cmb and wombo combo with your mount, and my favorite build, sometimes you aid another. You can give something like +21 mostly untyped AC to any ally within reach for the cost of two AOO, (one from you, one from your mount.) I personally think that cavalier may be a little underpowered. But you've basically turned them into battle heralds, a prestige class. But more stat hungry, which they already are as a martial combatant.
And why wisdom? Cavaliers generally have cha offspec, good for animals and partyface. Also great for intimidate if you're into that, which Cavaliers aren't god awful at.

I don't like it because I don't think Cavaliers are in such a terrible spot that they need buffs. And this feels like an excessive amount of extra things for seemingly no reason. They're just supposed to be fighters/sortanotreallypaladins on a mount. If you want to be party buffing its perfectly good to bard multiclass and pick up battle herald.

I am seeing what you're saying. I do not think cavalier was in a good place for contribution to a party in combat beyond a beat stick, which is why I added buffing as a major part of the class.

The choice for wisdom is something I struggled with, it still it up in the air whether it will be changed to instead use charisma. The change itself would not be that difficult. If I did do so I likely will add an oath for Cha to Will saves.

The choice of making them similar to battle heralds was to give them more team impact and versatility, similar to what I did with fighters. For what I've added them I've tried to make them more similar to Knights, with out of combat skill utility, noble positions, and the like. That's part of a class features for OOC design philosophy I've tried to follow. Do you not like this as in it over complicates the class?

What would make them closer to what you envision? Overall simplification? Removal of Banner seems to be the biggest thing (at least from what I am getting from your post).

>Reduce Person: "This means that thrown weapons deal their normal damage (projectiles deal damage based on the size of the weapon that fired them)."
>Enlarge Person: "Any enlarged item that leaves an enlarged creature's possession (including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly returns to its normal size. This means that thrown and projectile weapons deal their normal damage."

It's to make Reduce Person be more than a debuff right? Get some extra AC and you can still do ranged fighting.

lrn2read
Reduce Person + projectile weapons = reduced damage.
Enlarge Person + projectile weapons = NOT increased damage, normal instead.

And that's why I've replaced them with the wording from expansion/compression psionic powers

Make sure it has text like DSP puts in their archetypes to make it still compatible with burn-altering kineticists!

What are some good divine PrCs?

Hellknight Signifier is not fantastic, but progresses one divine class feature and nets full spellcasting. Battle Templar is pretty much a go to for Warpath Followers, although it limits earlygame feat choices.

Basically what I'm trying to get at is what do you like and do you not? You're saying too much was added. What, if you were writing it, would you cut?

Evangelist.

Anyone have any ideas for interesting dieties for a Paladin to worship? Starting a game soon and I'd like to play a Paladin for once. I've seen so many badly played Paladins who get crazy preach and try to bend the party to their will and suck all the fun out of the adventure. I feel like I can play a much more proper Paladin who leads by his own example instead of forcing his beliefs on other party members. I hate the stereotypical stick in the mud Paladin.

A Paladin who follows Cayden Cailean might be fun to play as a wandering freedom fighter. Though I also figured a more down-to-earth follower of Erastil would be interesting. I'm not 100% sure what kind of tone or rules the GM is going to be going with as I just found out this was happening recently so I'm trying to gather a few ideas ahead of time.

I like the idea of the giving them more than, "I go jabby jab at thing" But I'm of two minds on this.

One, I find that if you want to make a Cavalier not bad at ooc, Orders got you covered. Then you got to rp the rest. However in order to be decent you do need to invest lots of money into that.

On the flipside I really do like the idea that combat centered characters aren't relegated to "Roll for x attack, deal x dmg."
But two things rub me the wrong way
Yes I do think there is a little more complexity than whats comfortable at first glance, but to be honest I think that could be solved through a different presentation.
Second I feel that this almost invalidates battle herald, a class, in my mind, that was created to be what you want cavaliers to be.
Maybe I'm just stuck in the past,but giving this sort of effectiveness feels over the top. Honestly I'm pretty happy with cavaliers, except for their lack luster mount and mount abilities.
I will say that giving "talents" so to speak, the oaths, seems like to much to give to a class that already has a number of class features.

Anyone know the name of the feat that gives you an initiative bonus when you reveal your true form?

>I hate the stereotypical stick in the mud Paladin

Trust me, so does everyone else.

Erastil's a solid choice-not all "I will find heroes worthy to serve me by blowing fucking trumpets at them", just hard work, honest living, community, and 400 babies.

Like for a class that's supposed to be a dedicated mounted fighter, it was very weird to me that they don't inherently get Mounted Combat, or any bonuses to their ability to fight on mounts

>Cayden Cailean
Can't do that, as he is CG and Paladins have to pick a deity within 1 step of LG and as was proven last thread, clearly it would be OP if Paladins could be NG or CG

Erastil's a pretty cool guy. I like Shelyn, but that's mostly because "I fight for the beauty in the world!" sounds like my kind of Paladin.

Yeah Erastil is pretty much going to be my fall back if I can't think of anything more interesting or can't convince the GM that whatever I have in mind would work well. He's not usually a huge stickler for being a rule-nazi, so we'll see.

Perhaps presentation is part of the problem. I will update that to make it more reader friendly.

As for invalidating battle heralds this may be a controversial personal opinion but I am ok with that. Battle herald actually does their own job poorly unfortunately.

For OOC the "roleplay it" answer is something I consider not enough. Every class has access to roleplay. Orders mostly just give skills and one skill based feature. I do not believe it is enough as they do not bring anything to the table that other classes can not do as well. This is in specific reference to the power and versatility of spells out of combat.

Banners and Oaths. I want to give them the ability to make the mount more powerful (which is why I added mount power up oaths) and out of combat skills (gave them skill unlocks like a rogue, but that might be a poor design choice). If I remove that I remove the OOC feature. A possible way to work with it is to remove a bunch of those features and make them static rather than using oaths. It would simplify the class. Or a class feature where you choose 1-2 things rather than grabbing from a list. I think talents (rage powers, discoveries, arcana, etc.) are good design however.

I'll have to go back and look at last thread then. Kind of forgot about Shelyn when I was looking through dieties again. Overlooked her for Sarenrae.

I actually tried to disentangle them from mounted combat because of the limited scope of mounted combat as a fighting style. I see what you are saying. I included a bunch of mount upgrades among oaths, but did not require them.

Saranrae Snackbar?

I feel like I am making excuses for my design choices. I do not mean to seem like I am discounting your concerns. I am thinking of ways to try and reconcile the discrempensies.

Well to a certain extent I do agree that if x is a problem and y is the bandaid, then you could do away with the bandaid and just fix x.

However with the right orders you can still get respectable ooc skills. Some orders are better than others the ones that boost your perception really shore up your lack of wis. Same is true with other skills, to a degree.
So when I say "roleplay it" I just meant in the generic sense that just big stats shouldn't get you anything you want.

In one eye, I feel its unfair to invalidate a prestige class, since it was supposed to be something beyond standard classes, but in another, I see where it fails to be up to snuff. It is quite difficult to do much beyond the buffer as a combatant when taking battle herald. But if you allow Pageant of the Peacock, then you become an excessively strong party face, and because you're charisma spec/off spec, you can further increase your synergies. So in that way I feel like the package achieves what it set out to do, at least in my eyes. I do think flagbearer/banners do need a bit of fixing, as flagbearer directly conflicts with Banner of the Ancient Kings, which when used on a battleherald type character is quite nice. But expensive.

However, spells ruin the fun for everyone... it is true that often times you could just replace that kind of character with just a few spells, and personally I've never been terrible fond of spells.

At the end of the day, the "game designer" in me says that the philosophy is sound but I'm afraid of it being unfairly stronger.

charisma spec/offspec, you have access to leadership*

Shelyn. Have your Paladin be a painter who enjoys telling ribald jokes.

Kurgess and Also have ballin paladin oaths.

>Also
*Apsu

My phone may be a servant of Dahak, if my history with auto-correct is anything to go by