Doing amazons intelligently

Long story short, the basic idea is that women on a certain continent will usually grow about 50% more massive and three times stronger then men.
My basic idea is that this leads to more insular societies that can't effectively wage war do to it requiring women to go out and not be having babies when they should need to to keep the population at a reasonable level, drastically limiting how long a military campaign can last.
does this sound reasonable? are there other implications I should consider?

You could have a caste/rotation thing going on. Women could serve a mandatory time in the military. Upon retirement they become respected members of their communities and start families with their harem of manflesh. Afterall if they survived war they will be passing on some badass genes (in theory).

Or just have some women as honoured breeders. Women who opt to bare lots of children for the state who are provided for etc.

yeah, but a woman is only fertile for like, twenty years. or are you saying I should make anoher alteration or two in the name of story?

Eh. It's a plausible solution, but doesn't solve the "male expendability" issue.

Even if the females are significantly stronger than the males of the society, the woman is still far more "valuable" (from a social development standpoint) because she carries a uterus. If she gets pregnant (and again, from a societal standpoint she should at some point, to continue the growth of the society) she's going to be noticeably less "healthy" than non-pregnant women (mood swings, cravings, morning sickness, joint paint, etc.) for a decent slice of the first trimester, and then be noticeably pregnant/less able during the second, with the problems of the first trimester getting more acute or manifesting if they did not already. The third trimester she's realistically not able to do physical work, because she's carrying a large weight that causes all sorts of hormonal and physical issues with her body. After giving birth, the woman needs a few months to recover physically and mentally (PPD is absolutely a thing) before she can begin to approach the levels of physicality she had before the baby. This means that, purely due to the nature of childbirth, she's going to be at least 9 months (2/3 Trimester, 3mo recovery period) out of action and unable to contribute physical labor such as waging war, as well as three months of having her performance noticeably affected in the first trimester. This all happens because growing a living, breathing child the size of a basketball and then pushing it out of your vagina is a very physically demanding thing to do, and yet is absolutely necessary for the continuation of society.

Men, on the other hand, are under no such burden. Males can impregnate a female, and then less than an hour later be completely able to do physical labor again. Because they don't carry the child, they can theoretically impregnate as many women as they can ejaculate into, so fewer males are needed.

Cont.

This means that, because society doesn't "need" as much of them, men can be given the harder and more dangerous tasks (such as hard labor, warfare, etc.) as losing them is not as harmful as if they lost a female.

While I could totally see a female warrior cast that would act as elites or an entrenched social class in your societies, from a "logical" perspective most of those armies would still be augmented by male soldiers as more expendable line-troops.

This is the reason why societies have historically raided other societies for female captives - they needed more women in their own societies or else their society would crumble, so they stole the women of their neighbors.

The way you'd have a solo-female military "logically" would be to have men become somehow more valuable than females when it comes to continuing society.

I solved this in my Rogue Trader campaign by having a genophage endemic to a specific world that kills 70% of the males born on that world, and 20% of those remaining are born sterile. This was caused after a long-lost nation used a bio-weapon that killed the men of the enemy society, and it went wildly out of control. Now women are dominant, and fertile men are treated as insanely valuable commodities (but not quite people).

Up to you I suppose. Maybe becoming pregnant is a rite of passage from girl to woman (18 years old). Through the act of carrying and birthing a child you are now a 'woman' and able to enjoy the privileges of adulthood. With a new generation secured they can now become soilders (after a full recovery ofcourse). They just pushed a bowling ball out of themselves, running at dudes with an axe will be a piece of cake (in context with said culture)

>more dangerous tasks (such as hard labor, warfare, etc.
BUT they would amke fucking shitty soldiers. it'd be like an army of children attempting to invade a city, just wouldn't work. which is why warfare would be less of a thing, the healthy women of a given settlement would easily fend off male invaders who would be more lightly armored and carrying worse weapons, but still ultimately less agile.

them being expendable is immaterial when they won't be able to do the job

Tucker's kobolds

Just have the natural ratio of men and women born be lopsided. Society is 80% female or more. Amazons naturally give birth to females 90% of the time. Men are uncommon and Amazons raid enemies for them.

Tucker's Kobolds are essentially genius level and I assume you are using them as an example for how men could beat women in this setting but you also discredit the ability of the physically superior women to also come up with strong tactics.

Twenty years is a lot of fucking babies dude.

>Members of the same species
>3x more anything
I really don't see a reasonable way to do this, oh great ruler of the magic realm

>Doing amazons intelligently
Don't. Overthinking this is what made me hate women. If you really want to do this, then...

1. Get rid of womankind's inherrent distaste for men. Look up the scientifically attested "women are wonderful" effect and it'll explain why even the ones crying for equality during WW1 were shaming men for not dying for an oppressive, colonial state they recieved no benefits from.
2a. Wombs are valuable, solve this problem. You could have some weird seahorse-impregnation thing where the male fertilizes the woman's seed but carries the baby, putting the burden of having a child in their body on the man leaving the women free to do other things.
2b. Alternatively create a warrior caste, not just in the social but also the biological sense. Look at bees: men are only valuable because a very limited number of women (the queen) are fertile. The worker bees, those who work and fight for the hive, are sterile. You could have a sterile caste of warrior-women but that wouldn't be sexy because you can't have a family with them unless you're willing to adopt.
2c. Some niggers 'round these here parts suggest some deer-type pregnancy that doesn't bother the mother at all, but that's stupid. You're still sending someone with a baby in their body to the front to die.
3. ONLY NOW can you start thinking about making women bigger and stronger than men. Yes, only after making sure that they no longer hate men and only after they no longer have wombs, they can viable start protecting their men rather than fucking the enemy after their sons and fathers were brutally slaughtered.
>B-But muh lion harems
Do you know what happens when a solitary lion beats a lion with his harem in combat? Exactly what I outlined above: the previous head of the pride is either rejected or killed, all of his children are slaughtered and the new head impregnates all of the bitches.

Life is an endless loop of suffering. The harder you think, the deeper the rabbit hole goes.

Also, exowombs. Magical or not.

>Get rid of womankind's inherrent distaste for men.
>ONLY NOW can you start thinking about making women bigger and stronger than men.
>ignores everything else in the thread talking about culture

I'm certain you are the same fucking /r9k/ fucker in the other thread so I'm just going to repeat myself but same shit Imma rip myself from this hook and leave you to whatever bullshit spam you may post next.

/r9k/ plz leave

>ignores everything else in the thread talking about culture
>/r9k/ plz leave
I'm going. I'm not going to reply with anything other than what directly relates to the OPs question, and this will probably be my last reply in this thread overall. If you actually want to talk this out (doubtful), you're free to make a thread on /r9k/ or anywhere else though.

Oh thank god goodbye.

I hope other people interested in the topic will learn about /r9k/ and feel free to talk about it there.

Strong people rarely come up with strong tactics. It's too much like work. They prefer to rely on the thing that they are good at, being strong. One doesn't get strong by thinking. And one doesn't usually get good at thinking by being strong. It's rare that anyone can truly balance both and be good at both.

>BUT they would amke fucking shitty soldiers.
why? Unless these men are also somehow less able due to the fetish magic that caused the women to hulk out, they'd be just as capable as the men of opposing nations.

I think he means that in an invasion scenario, where the invaders consist of mostly/entirely men (as the women are at home) they're suddenly now facing these super-females as defenders.

Plus all the other males.

just make them all trannies

Just read Franken Fran chapter 31.

the invaders would just burn their crops, cordon their waters and starve them out. Because a population trying to feed 9' giants is either going to be fucking tiny or relying on massive amounts of food.

or you just slam pilums into the massive 9' targets

What if the women are just regular sized and the me are just 4' manlets?

then it's a miracle this nation survived to see its first invasion

You know, the fucking Mithra and Mi'qote from Final Fantasy did it right. Not too many men, so they're isolared away from everyone, and the Mithra and Mi'qote travel the world as mercenaries, merchants, and soldiers to ear money to buy time to live in the city and get fucked and raise their children.

Simple, elegant, baisc, effective.

Wonder Woman it. They're born, literally, from the earth. Boom done gimme my check.

26.6 babies to be exact.

Tucker's kobolds only work when a society of oddly skilled individuals, all completely dedicated to fucking over PCs and with access to oddly plentiful resources, gets in contact with a party of panicking imbeciles who don't scout or plan.

Brain works at its best when in a healthy body, and being physically active gives you a good perspective on how effective different kinds of labor are. This is not very relevant if your strongest individuals are all nobility who never have to fight anyone as strong as themselves, but becomes very relevant if the amazon's society is or was ever under pressure to optimize. Like, for example, if their warlike neighbors used clever tactics to inflict inordinate losses in battle.

And hordes of males who take the non-breeder surname and bail out from their societies because pussy is not worth it. Why fight your father to the death for the right to fuck your mother and half-sisters when you can just go to a human town and catboy with the wenches there.

That's only true for adventuring parties where strength means that loss of resources becomes immaterial. For armies where you have people die whether you did good or bad, you always want ideas to minimize the casualties.

WW's a Zeus baby now

A really easy solution would just be to have their society function like a beehive, one queen on top who primarily breeds, all other women underneath function as workers as well as warriors, with men's function also being breeding. This allows the warrior caste to consist entirely of women, while men are still expendable.

twin births though

Queen bees work because a single bee can pump out tons and tons of babies. Human beings have an incubation period that's far too long and only makes one or two children per nine months.

Soldiers don't have to be the whole population you know.

Alright, then replace the single queen with a voluntary breeding caste that shirts in cycles.

*shifts in cycles
fucking phone

Women are required to have at least one baby before they can serve in the military, leading to most getting pregnant at 16-18 or so. Children are reared in civil creche's

ironically this is pretty much what happens with the Mi'qote

that doesnt count

Given female psychology and cooperation, it's really not that far fetched user.

Christ, you're more of a sperg than the user you're complaining about. At least he contributed.

do you really not understand the sexual dimorphism present in some animals? you understand there are octopodes where the female is ten thousand times as large?

are you retarded?

right, and the women could just exit the city and kill the invading army. and wear armor and carry heavy shields to make the pilums useless. you really, really don't seem to be thinking this out even a little bit.

Do what that guy did with Outsider.

The society has something like a 10:1 ratio of females to men as a result of being an engineered warrior race. Their population can EXPLODE without the discipline of society, and reproduction is something of a privilege or a mark of entering a new rank/phase of life. The women tend to be larger, and while the entire race is mildly psychic, females are far more likely to exhibit dangerous levels of psycho, cry, and pyro kinesis. The species are adults by the age of 10-14 or so.

The men are too rare to be risked, and the women are very plentiful, while the birth rate is hypothetically vast enough that females don't have the same treasured reproductive status.

>and wear armor and carry heavy shields
exactly where are you going to get the materials to fully equip an army of giants with heavy armor and shields

Bronze and steel don't fucking grow on trees.

Make it so Amazons were cursed by a god/witch/wizard to only give birth to female offspring. Therefore, any social structures being adjusted have a plausible reason for being changed (other than "just 'cuz")

>if nobody said anything about it then I get to assume they are unga bunga no metal people

Jesus Christ, why are you so devoted to amazons being retarded?

Not anymore. The current run has has her made from clay again. And the other Amazons are the reincarnations of women violently murdered again.

>exactly where are you going to get the materials to fully equip an army of giants with heavy armor and shields

From iron mines. Where did you think regular armies got their weapons and armor? Male-only iron glands?

Can anyone come up with a reason that isn't thinly veiled fetish fuel?

Your mom.

Good. Zeus-baby was a shit change.

Ultimately it comes down to rate of birth and child mortality, if you can bullshit the first high enough and the second low enough despite them going out to fight, it's probably not going to be an issue

Hell, if you already factor in the the women being stronger/sturdier than normal you may cut down on a decent amount of death by childbirth and stillbirths

But still, they're probably gonna want multiple pregnancies before (or just when not) fighting, the easiest solution (discounting because magic/their god/DM said so) is to have a decently strong social pressure to have kids and make them a lot more sturdy than normal, compared to most animals human birth/pregnancy is rather fucked up and much more strenuous on both mother and child than normal, simply fixing that and a lot of the problems with amazons start looking a lot less severe

They're still aren't going to want to fight while pregnant (at least while not heavily so), but they no longer need to be treated as invalids for half the time (and may even be able to do nonstrienous manual labor), add in communal child rearing and sex being a decently popular past time and there you have the basics of a working amazon civilization

Pull a Gerudo

Because it's very in-your-face and unsubtle, so no it isn't "thinly veiled".

I wrote up something that might be relevant in an earlier thread.
I really did try not to be a sperg about it, so let's see what happens when we drop it to the /r9k/ hyenas.
It's as simple as a culture that's evolved from a river-dwelling tribe. The jungle around the rivers flowing through the country is dense and dangerous, and most people live most of their lives within five seconds' running of a river - why risk life and limb hacking through dense, beast-filled jungle when you can just live off what's flowing by right in front of you? Cities are built suspended over long stretches of river, with each household having access to their own diving spot and with that food and water, so that they don't have to venture into the jungle to hunt. While clothing still exists - sunburn and bathing in weed-filled river water are not pleasant combinations, and in general one always needs to have the crotch covered so that parasites and bacteria don't make their way in - it's never really evolved into a cultural thing, since dyes wash away, fabric is hard to make and it never really gets cold enough for heavy clothing. As such, most clothing is simple and utilitarian, and there's no gender difference in clothing - on top of that, since the home is literally one meter from the hunting territory in the best cases and about a hundred in the worst, women hunt just as much as men. As they don't have to leave home to hunt (well, fish), women usually take care of the actual food gathering since all they have to do to get there is to jump through the floor and into the river.

Likewise, they can start hunting again almost immediately after giving birth, which combined with the strongly communal and tight-knit nature of the culture means that a lot of women hand over their children to other mothers (if their children still breast-feed) or older male warriors too frail or injured to hunt anymore (if they don't).
Men are explorers more than hunters, blazing trails into the jungle and collecting medicinal plants, fibers for clothes, decorative objects and animal parts, which means that they're usually the ones who decorate themselves the most with their trophies. Caring about appearance is seen as a man's thing - you go out into the jungle to gather dyes and animal parts, and the greatest imaginable pride for a man is to find a dye or a distinct-looking fang/feather/claw/pelt that no one else has used before. When they retire due to injury or old age, they spend their lives telling stories and teaching crafts to the children, while the women fish and fend off beasts that come to the village's borders. Women usually wear their hair short all their life, as it's a hassle to swim with long hair and it takes a while to dry (not good in a moist climate, and towels or heavier clothing is a waste of rare fabric). Men usually keep it short until they're forty or so years old, after which they grow it out to show that they've done their share of hunting and don't need to care about practicality anymore - the male elders often weave leaves or animal trophies into their hair, and dye it with plant saps and mashed leaves. Women generally don't decorate themselves, though they sometimes tattoo themselves - men go for fang patterns, plants or animals that they've discovered and concentric rings symbolizing the amount of years they've hunted, while women prefer fish-scale and abstract patterns.

Men and women are usually equally physically strong, mostly because men spend more time picking medicinal herbs and waiting for prey, while women often spend hours every day hanging from rope ladders and waiting for fish to swim by (nets are severely taboo, as they signify taking other people's fish without working, and only men usually use them, as they alone fish in rivers without settlements). As everyone lives so close to each other and most body odors and excess waste are washed away by the river, there's little to no idea of "refinement" - the only taboo about dirt and waste there is is that any intentional pollution takes place down at the end of the village, towards the sea. Massive celebrations are held here, where food and gifts are dumped into the river as thanks to it for nourishing the people - and immediately followed by a large amount of tobacco ashes, drinking cups made from folded leaves and other garbage from the festivities. Of course, women smoke and drink almost as much, if not more, than the men - the booze needs to ferment at home, after all, and the tobacco dries out back.
On second thought, there are plenty of spergy parts in this, but none of them should dreadfully offend the "I Tried To Be A Nice Guy" Internet Defense Force.

>Men usually keep it short until they're forty or so years old, after which they grow it out to show that they've done their share of hunting and don't need to care about practicality anymore
So is baldness not a thing among them, or is going bald the greatest shame a man can endure?

You can be pretty far into bald and still have long hair.
Considering this is written as a tribal setting, a lot of men would probably die before they got the opportunity to go naturally bald. If it happens, they'd probably just use woven fibers and thread as a toupée, then do like in our world and hope that no one comments no matter how obvious it is.

I'm just going to play devil's advocate here. Feel free to correct me.
Running out to kill the army doesn't bring back the crops, or un-poison the water. If the women's militia did come out, couldn't the attacker just scatter while burning more crops and loosing arrows into the pursuers? Scattering would also be easier if those pursuers were wearing heavy armor. It'd be kind of like when the Mongol's light cavalry would take on heavily cavalry. You don't have to go toe-to-toe, just stay out of reach and keep attacking when the opponent can't.
Being three times as strong and tough is awesome, but Danny DeVito could kill Dwayne Johnson with a bow and arrow. Hey, any artists out there willing to draw Danny DeVito as a horse archer?

hell, you're more of a douche than he is by far.

...right. Because charging out of the walls into superior numbers has worked so well in the past.

>b-but muh super strong womens and extra heavy armor and shields

Have just left the city undefended. If they're really unlucky, they're going to be lead on a a bit of a chase and have the city sacked behind them as the invaders occupy it and now have the walls and fortifications to their own advantage.

You're clearly unsuited to basic tactics and strategy.

> some women not procreating is completely unthinkable for imagined societies
You're a trumpet, aren't you?

This is true, but if they do manage to smash the seigeing army they can then begin to rebuild the destroyed infrastructure to begin to alevaite the damage early instead of waiting for them to just go away

>the massive 9' targets
At 50% more massive they'd be like 7ft, maybe.
If we're talking 50% bigger then the average medival male, you might not even break 6ft, or 300lbs.

They're hardly going to be monsterous. Just big.

Only about 1 in 80. So assuming 10 women it would still only be 26.9 babies each. Still the main issue with this is that pregnant women are pretty fucking useless for most dangerous and difficult jobs like being soldiers or miners before modern mechanization. Plus there are the issues of infertility among some women, death during childbirth, and especially if they are soldiers, death before childbirth.

While I dislike amazons just being huge women this is how I would probably do it. Pick any solution or a combination.

1. Modified biology: Women have some way that pregnancy doesn't impact their performance as soldiers. Perhaps women remain fertile their entire life simply with decreased fertility like men meaning old retired soldiers can become mothers. Perhaps they almost or literally always have multiple births, could even play it into the culture like children without twins are considered super special or twins are expected to always fight together, marry and opposite pair of twins, and die around the same time, and a twin without their sibling is likely to fall into severe depression. Could always come up with a dozen more.

2. Women have a sort of reserve system: Think of it like this,
>Women get married soon after they hit puberty and begin popping out babies, still training as soldiers and can fight as an emergency reserve if their city or village is attacked
>Once a woman passes say 25 she joins the military while her husband and mother raises the kids
>Once a woman hits menopause they retire from the military and help to raise their grand children and train younger girls in warfare, might become some form of political leader

3. Caste system: If only 5% of the population are dedicated soldiers even a huge military defeat won't destroy the nation completely.

4. Professional army: See above

>or you just slam pilums into the massive 9' targets
To be fair if you are a 9' tall slab of flesh you could easily just carry a massive shield with a layer of steel thick enough to not be penetrated by pila. Granted at 9' I think we are outside of amazon range and into full on ogre size or something.

Scattering also has organizational problems.

Unless everyone is trained for "scatter, don't worry about the giants literally out to kill you just run and do bad things then meet here" your forces are now spread across the countryside.

>they're going to be lead on a a bit of a chase and have the city sacked behind them as the invaders occupy it and now have the walls and fortifications to their own advantage.
>everyone in my imagination are expert tacticians with crack troops that can follow complex orders and do extravagant maneuvers

Also I get a feeling that someone 3x your size can outmarch your ass.

>Only about 1 in 80
>Fantasy kinda-humans will have the exact same birthrate as normal humans seeing the exact same patterns

>Also I get a feeling that someone 3x your size can outmarch your ass.
Outmarch or outrun? Sure the 9 foot guy has a bigger stride but he also requires more food to keep going meaning a longer supply train or more time spent raiding the surrounding area for food. All this means that the overall pace of such an army is likely to be significantly slower than an army of smaller people who can more easily carry food with them or spend less time raiding the countryside to supply their army.

So look at my suggestion number 1 for solving the issue. Also outside of nearly constant multiple births it still won't impact much, if it is 1 in 10 it still only changes the maximum number of births to 29.26 or an increase of just 10%. So unless you assume that fantasy worlds are assumed to have like 1 in 4 births being twins it wouldn't change much and the amazons would probably need a unique biology in some form to supplement their birth rate if they act like generic amazons.

That's why I like WHF's ogre's they're all obease and hardy to the point if they had to, they could outmarch opposing armies, like the mongols their based on. They also can apparently eat anything from bits of wood to leather.

Could hace felmale amazon's be huge and grossly obease too. Worshiping "The Great Maw" sort of takes on a whole new meaning too.

>So unless you assume that fantasy worlds
If they're already 50% larger then males, you could just claim they have litters. 4-5 kids could be standard.

Hence point one you fucking tard. Unless something extreme is stated or implied it shouldn't be assumed.

Or you can make it an honor thing. Where as women are seen as worthless by other women if they don't do things like take land, serve in the military, birth at least one child, kill enemies of the tribe, and contribute to society. They would be a culture that places high value on those who want to do things that benefit those weaker then they.

Yeah, but being fat isn't cool. Obese armies can't do much other than die of heart attacks, be slow and die. They have to be hugely muscled and sexually insatiable. It's part of being amazon.

...

>hey have to be hugely muscled and sexually insatiable. It's part of being amazon.
No reason you can't be that and obese.
Like 7ft tall female powerlifters.

That's pretty fucking dumb user.

And why would you want all of the heroes of the story to be fat human shaped blobs.

>Powerlifter =/= Obese

Also, powerlifters aren't exactly the best warriors. Sure you can lift stuff. But you can't run, duck, dodge and fight because you're a fuckhuge chunk of slow, easily winded human flesh not made to fight.

>heroes of the story
I thought they were just intersting set dressing.
>Powerlifter =/= Obese
By clinical MBI measurements they are. (Although you can be a 5% bf bodybuilder and still quallify by that standard)

Powerlifters would be great at sheild wall tactics.

Also, it's a fantasy setting. Amazons could be different. Sorta want to make SJW Amazons now.
BIG IS BEAUTIFUL

>And why would you want all of the heroes of the story to be fat human shaped blobs.
Amazons aren't usually heroes, they're usually some isolated/exotic culture of xenophobes for the actual hero to best in one way or another.

Although I don't really think a culture of fatass savages would be very interesting, it certainly would shake up all the womyn stronk dudes to have amazons portrayed as an utterly barbaric and ugly people.

>BIG IS BEAUTIFUL
DRIVE OUT THE FUCKING WHITE MALES

RECLAIM THEIR LAND FOR OPPRESSED WOMYN OF COLOR

THIS IS TRUE EQUALITY

Well you're wrong. I can tell you that powerlifters would make piss poor warriors. Being that large, unable to run, jump and all around fight wouldn't make them well suited to doing much at all. Even if it's fantasy, suspension of disbelief can only get you so far before you start getting turned off.

Fat isn't cool, it's not beautiful. SJW amazons won't attract an audience anymore than fat male models will get pussy. You can do it, but it won't make money or sustain attention for any real length of time. They'd be unable to fight, being fat human shaped tubs of lard and no men would have problems killing people who are already in the middle of a heart attack. But what do I know? Yeah, fat women will definitely get you that audience! Who gives a fuck about functional muscle or body shapes?

>why would you want all of the heroes of the story to be fat human shaped blobs

...why not?

>the country giant people live in isn't going to be designed to sustain them
>they aren't going to have supply line solutions designed to aide in their combat style

Not him but he has a point. I wouldn't buy that shit.

No he doesn't

It just means you aren't the target audience

Boo-hoo

Well alright. Who the fuck is the target audience? Fat sjw females who don't buy videogames? We were asking how to make fucking non shit amazons. What are your ideas then? Anything that doesn't involve landwhales would be a great start.

>matriarchal society
>having solutions to obvious problems
smug_animated_pictograph.bmp

> Fat sjw females who don't buy videogames
> videogames
> Veeky Forums
> videogames

/v/ plz leave. I'm certain your home board will give you the coddling you need after being triggered in what you thought was a "safe space"

Don't be a troll

>dismisses a legit argument

Oh boy, he said videogames! Better leave /v/! My 'tism is acting up again plz go!