More than any other class, monks seem to be the one avoided because they are so tied to Eastern culture...

Basic historical accuracy already doesn't exist. There is nothing Medieval about xorn or slaadi. Studded leather armor was never a thing.

D&D was never trying to be historically accurate.

It seems like something a lot of people have a problem with. Everything else is well explained, temples are just there for the sake of explaining monks.

Homebrewing a bunch of class crap, and this is basically my approach- a subset of Fighter that emphasize peak physical condition and martial arts.

I simply just play my monk like this. Kicked out from the monastery by being an atheist brat.

>Everything else is well explained
> temples are just there for the sake of explaining monks.
>Everything else is well explained
>proceeds to explain monks

I don't have a problem with it. Martial Arts and Ki works, thus there are temples for them. It's like you're complaining about wizard colleges?

by playing shadowrun

>Barbarians are based on Conan not anything in medieval culture
>Clerics are polytheists
>Wizards and sorcerers use powers that at best barely resemble those of actual hermetic and mythological magic
>Druids are nothing like actual druids beyond sharing a name.

I just accept that the setting has monks and that not all monks have to be oriental and get over it.

"Omneeah...omneeeah neeeoh...*whack*"

Didn't you just make this thread a week ago? Just replace shaolin with western pugilism

m.youtube.com/watch?v=2_vbmZJBXSA

No, that was a guy asking if you would allow monks based on western-style wrestling and suchlike.

Either way, I don't agree with that since they have wildly different philosophies behind them and fighting styles. Some eastern cultures believed that with physical perfection came supernatural or magical power, where western cultures rarely had anything like that.

"[Monks] are not dedicated to a particular god. Instead they follow ideals based around perfection of the self. Followers of these traditions will practice martial arts, learn to withstand extreme temperatures, and develop nigh inhuman pain tolerance to hone their bodies. Others will train their memory, or learn to speak dozens of languages, or study mathematics until they can perform complex calculations purely in their heads.

Some would say that this training is a waste- most anyone with enough fortitude to become a true [Monk] could far more easily study magic, or the ways of a god. However, [Monks] take pride in the knowlege that their abilities and skill come from nothing more than their mastery of the self."

There you go. They can all be bleached white Swedish Vikings now if you like, that basic background still works.

>tfw Swedish Monk
>tfw I'll never play as a CG Swedish monk obsessed with gains, traditional values, self-mastery.

>not being a monk devoted to Marquess of Queensberry rules

*Coughs*

*creak* OOOOOHHHHH!!!!

The sequel lost a lot of the charm of the original.

Yeah. I still play the original quite often, though, so at least there's that. Plus I occasionally drop references to it.

The goddess of conquest and evil dragons in my setting is called Scrylia, for example.

After a life of hardship, wandering, and mistrust, a half-orc finds peace in being the best he can be, not concerning himself with the stares of the townsfolk he would die for. He fights using monk weapons and has the monk class. He has some of the flavour of a monk, and all the mechanics. He could also just be an unarmed brawler brute who uses the monk class.

The archetypical true zen master Shaolin monk is hard to fit in though I'll agree.

*ba-dum-dum!" AAAAHHHHH!

Reminder that ancient greek Pankration incorporated studies of Pneuma, aka breathing techniques that could be considered similar to Ki

>You's lookin' fo' some shit?

Stealing this pic for a character portrait.

>Majesty 2
I'm outta here

>Yeah. I still play the original quite often, though, so at least there's that.
Majesty Gold with the Majestic Majesty mod isn't half bad.

What he said
also youtube.com/watch?v=2vnuqM5t4Dg

The original had so much flair and amazingness.

>Leave my gold...alone...

I've always had issue with monks.

Big part of the game is about finding new and better weapons and armour. The kind of feel like they were a class that wander in from another game.

Even wizards doesn't seem to know what to do with them. Fourth addition love them with psionic which *kind of worked* but not really. 5e made them ninjas and goddamn air benders.

I think this might have something with DMs' reluctance to let monk players find shit that's actually useful for the class, i.e. +DEX crap.

The lack of magic weapons was "patched" in HotDQ however:

I played a monk in a campaign recently. A githzerai hobo passed through his town and performed a few martial tricks for a meal and a bed. my character followed him for a few years before the campaign start. he wasn't a weeb, just a standard westerner that learned martial arts of an unusual foreigner.

What about the Greeks?

You must remember monks are based more on acrobatics and multiple attacks rather than grappling. Which is better than it is in previous edition but still not something most people want to bother with.

Finding mystical black belts are a good solution as well.

Call them 'martial artists'

I prefer to have a medieval fantasy equivalent to mini mall karate dojos aboud n the marketplace. They are always run by white guys with mustaches and mullets who decorate it with cheap knockoff mysterious east stuff for the ambience. But mostly get peasants and middle class students who want to learn how to fight but cannot afford real training, cannot be a Paladin or Ranger, definitely cannot afford mage school and are a step above joining things like rogue guilds.

I tend to assume the bigger cities and empire capitals are a lot more multicultural than their medieval Europe equivalent since travel is a lot more common plus things like flight and teleportation are available. Plus some classes just have culture flavors to them like the very celtic Druids, a lot of mages and assassins have a middle eastern flavor to them, Norse barbarians, Shamans tend to be not-European, half the time Gladiators are Roman, and Japanese ninjas.

So a large city would have things like temples and churches from across the world, something like a Chinatown section with a few schools and maybe a monk temple, and some place ninjas can come from. Along with the various neighborhoods for other cultures etc.

You have them like the 'monks' in Oblivion. Christian-style monks in habits with the bald bit in the middle of their heads, but secretly sword-masters.

>Historical accuracy
>in a game explicitly not set on Earth

Why do RPG martial artists have to be based on the Shaolin Monk anyway?

China was covered in random schools that taught people martial arts and were not monasteries or temples at all. They were schools with the goal of making money off teaching students.

Also I never got why the Wuxia archetype was totally absent from most games since they seem to be the main goto fantasy adventurer in Chinese media anyway. And those guys are typically nobles, high ranking military officers, or wealthy men who learned kung fu and fight with a wide variety of weapons.

friendly cultural exchange brought by peaceful nomads from the east

Accuracy to what?

My problem with monks is not the eastern part, is the monastic, wise and sagely part, why can only those be martial artists?

That map looks sexy as fuck

Actually some European monks were not far behind on fighting skills. They just didn't flaunt them so much and use simpler styles less dependant on years of dedicated training.

Where eastern monk will be honing his body through special training keeping balance between strength and agility European monks would just do hard work and train with clubs and staves. So they were less mobile but hit harder.

Here's a brief story:

>Around city of Rimini gang of bandits led by Pandolfo Malizia terrorised merchants, farmers and other travellers. Once they saw a group of travelling monks and decided that they were an okay target too. So they attacked them.

>Chronicler writes "And so brothers as befits their calling got to save their souls using holy words, strength of their arms given them by the God and the tools of Providence (clubs). They did it so zealously that 8 souls parted with their bodies and 12 more were punished for their sins with many injuries that returned them on the path to salvation"

>After that Pandolfo Malizia confessed his sins and asked for forgiveness which he was granted and became a very zealous monk himself. In the act of saving his soul he got three broken ribs, broken arm, lost left eye and half of his teeth.

I've never thought of the monk as an Asian plant though.
Just someone who's found guidance through training the body. That uses Asian principles, but isn't intrinsically linked.
My wood elf is a monk and has no ties to a temple or whatever.

I like martial arts but I don't like the baggage of having to be a wise, calm and spiritual kind of guy.

The trope of a monk is the trope of any honed martial artist - and especially deulists.

The problem is the treatment monks have gotten in D&D has been really stupid.

(me)
Think of it this way: a duelist uses a sword as the extension of his arm, and uses his intense discipline and focus to achieve impossible results when striking with his blade.

I like Anima Taos they're better at learning martial arts, but martial arts go from pankration, sambo, krav maga to kung fu, shotokan, moai thai, etc They'll be as Asian as you want them to be because they're just templates

Similar.
Paladins afaik usually come from convents or monasteries anyway.
Why wouldn't monks just be the same thing?

>they managed to get far enough into Europe to sack a city of the Holy Roman Empire

Imagine what would have happened if they hadn't gone 'fuck it we have to go home now.' It was so brief that you barely even hear about it in the history books.

Many western monks worked quite the same, actually.

Think Friar Tucks seismic tossing heretics and using German martial arts.

German martial arts? Really? I doubt there's such a thing. The west is just too weapon focused - you have to at least have a club or a stick. Anything with fists is just boxing.

>German martial arts? Really? I doubt there's such a thing. The west is just too weapon focused

Incorrect. The knight's battle curriculum did not just include weapon techniques and horsemanship. It also included thorough instruction in both barehanded striking and grappling techniques as well as movement techniques that probably would've looked a lot like parkour.

I went for the simplest thing that could possibly work: I gave the fighter an optional fighting style "unarmed" that gives them the same benefits, word for word, as the monk's "Martial Arts" class feature.

I like the monk as a class but RAW it's overwhelmingly Weeaboo Fightin' Magic. It was easier to fix a class that almost worked than try to re-work the whole Monk class from the ground up.

Just make them dudes who are incredibly good at punching/kicking/grappling.

How'd you make that map?

Simple. Monks are dwarven warriors. Bam.

Goddamn that was easy. What other problems need solving around here?

>use spellslots to shoot fire from hands, teleport, and protect your unarmored body: ok
>use Ki to shoot fire fire from your hands, teleport, and protect your unarmored body: weeaboo fightan magic

I just don't really care much. It's not like the standard D&D setting looks fuck all like medieval europe or whatever. The whole "lol D&D is medieval England" thing is dumb - it looks fucking nothing like it beyond "there's castles".

You want to have religious orders that believe in the whole working the body to cultivate the mind thing, shaolin-style? Sure, why the fuck not?

Shit, it feels obvious to me that Paladins and Monks should come from similar orders, just ones are more focused inwards and the others are more focused outwards.

The thing about the monk archetype, is that monk isn't just a guy who is exceptionally good at kicking the shit out of people unarmed and unarmored. He has also dedicated his life to harmony, inner peace and other new age crap.

Ubermensch.

>hasn't cloistered himself to get closer to God.

Take a look at this guy.

I dissagree that monks are avoided in dnd based games because of awkward culture.
I think it is because they kind of suck.
at high levels spellcasters have vastly more versatility and at low levels full plate practically makes you immune to non magical attacks. monks get neither of these benefits. You get no armor, your weapons suck, all of your features are melee combat oriented and you get no magic.

Adding to this, Monks also have no syngery between their class features.

You have extra speed but you can't move and FoB in the same turn. You get extra AC from Dex/Wis but you also need STR (damage) and CON (health) to stand up to most CR appropriate enemies. Your base unarmed damage increases and you get powers to give your fists magical power to bypass DR but damage you deal is miniscule compared to a 2H fighter of equal level and it's harder to increase it through magic items.

I mean fuck, they get a feature that's just a shittier feather fall that can only be done near a wall and a feature that gives them immunity to disease, but only if it's not magical.

It's just a poorly designed class overall.

>they are so tied to Eastern culture
Only if you don't boil them down.

You're retarded. Wrestling, striking, etc have always been a part of soldier training - not just sport martial arts. Fucking savate came from the age of exploration and is almost indistinguishable from other street fighting styles in Southeast Asia.

gregorian style monks

If you want to play a mage then play a fucking mage

Quit trying to force your weeaboo shit into the game. Fighters fight with a sword, they do not shoot lasers from their eyes. You want magic then you are just going to have to optimize a squishy mage. This mix shit is just people godmoding and cannot stand the chance of having some area of weakness on a build.

I think the question was more along the lines of

>Why does the martial artist have to be a shaolin monk instead of a fantasy martial artist?

Wouldn't those be clerics?

When your entire class sucks and the game renders your class largely superflous, can you honestly call it just an area of weakness?

Compare to a mage, whose low HP and inability to wear armor doesn't really matter much since they have spells that can end encounters in one turn anyways.

You might like weeaboo fightin' magic or hate it, but let's not fucking kid ourselves that it isn't what it obviously is. The class is pure Orientalism.

Astral-projecting disease-immune elders in vigorous health eschewing food and water while communicating calm wisdom through supernatural speech is totally in line with Taoist warrior-sages and very little to do with punching real good. Which explains why the class is "Monk" and not "Guy Who Punches Real Good."

If, however, your goal is to make a character that punches real good without making a Taoist warrior-sage the rules are a bit lackluster in that department. It's be the same problem if there was a martial Brawler class and a hybrid Monk class but the only class that could use heavy armor and swords was the Paladin or the only class that could use bows and crossbows was the Ranger. Arbitrarily tying an entire combat archetype to a hybrid caster with a very limited fluff capacity was always going to be a problem.

Rename them the Gladiator and delight in suddenyl having an excuse for lightly-armored warriors who specialize in exotic weapons.

Fuck's sake, this ain't hard.

They are avoided because weeaboo fightan magic is not a part of DnD. DnD is armored warriors and wizards fighting monsters. Not your favorite anime hero dueling some bishie villain with energy fists in mid air.

Why can't people just go play an anime themed game instead of constantly trying to inject their new fad media into a game that was never meant for it.

They don't boil down as far as you'd think, unfortunately. Some stuff only makes sense for a specific type of spiritual figure.

Which is yet another good argument for removing the class entirely.

Monks do not fit the setting at all, their skills are crap with the way the game is set up and for the most part are only there because animu.

I imagine clerics being more of the kind that draw power from the gods while monks draw it from within themselves.

So each gregorian monk could choose between being a cleric, 'monk', or paladin.

I figure paladins could also come from the order

Monks have been around since 2e dude.

If anything, Sorcerers are more weaboo fightan magic than the Monk since they can cast spells thanks to an ancestor fucking a dragon and there's nothing really stopping a sorcerer from punching you to death with magic augmented fists.

Works great right up until you're trying to figure out why your Gladiator has magical fists, speaks all forms of language, can permanently abstain from food and water, and astral project.

I always thought their skillset seemed more geared towards roleplaying "Asian guy in European world" rather than "punchy guy in sword users world"

Yea not using food and spiritual healing of nonmagical diseases are okay for fluff purposes, but if you are going against a Tarrasque then your monk might as well be a sorcerer with a shittier weapon selection and no spells to cast.

Actually, their skills are crap because 3e decided to take a steaming dump on over half the classes whose purpose was simply to hit things really hard until things died.

If the combat was actually well designed and the feat system didn't have obnoxious feat chains then most of the issues with martials wouldn't be issues.

>monks are the only character a weeb will play

Which is what they should be doing anyway.

A sorcerer having zero magical training or education whatsoever should not be capable of full wizard incantation spells. Glowing fists and the occasional accidental fireball should be their capacity.

Say one of their parents was a God(dess) and those abilities are just their demigod bloodline coming to the surface.

Boom.

This is true

>Monks have been around since 2e dude.

incorrect, they've been around since OD&D. they were introduced in blackmoor, the game's second-ever supplement.

I actually liked the Final Fantasy 11 style muscle mage Monks. They were typically weak and had shit defense. But their aura healing was pretty good for a party and their role in raids was to stand back and laser the mob down nonstop.

Yet Sorcerers have just as much arcane might as their wizard counterparts, minus the ability to change their loadout every time they rest for the night.

Honestly, I'd sooner axe Sorc's than Monks since it's usually that class where you'll find the generic kitsune foxtrot with big eyes, a small mouth, and huge tits/ass/dick who ends up trying to fuck everything in the room because they were rewarded for pumping CHA by the RAW.

Admit that your entire raison d'etre got taken apart in one post. You got shit on and it was fucking great to read. You had nothing to come back with. It was a slaughter and you took it like a bitch.

Why should anything make sense?

explain every anime inspired special snowflake 'hot blooded protagonist' fighter