MTG 9/26 Banned/Restricted list predictions?

Because Ancestral Vision wasn't enough to save Blue in Modern. But why Jace, why not Preordain? Unlike Jace, Preordain is a common and therefore wouldn't price thousands of people out of the format.

Oh, I think we all know who is coming to visit.

No changes. Possibly punishing fire.

My issue with Preordain is all it does is reinforce blue as "the color you play in a combo deck to find the pieces" which seems pretty boring.
I don't think the card is busted, but I think if it was sorcery speed it would be unbanned by now.
Jayce has no justification of unbanning. As a card, it is too strong. Arguing Jayce should get unbanned to "save" control is like arguing Jitte should be unbanned to "save" equipment decks.

Preordain IS a sorcery.

Also, you can't compare an entire color to a specific archetype.

>prized ban
It loses to so many side board cards. There is no world where this ban is justified.
>Immense ban
Banning a card because it is too good with infect just makes it more clear we need to ban the low drop infect cards.

Woops, I'm dumb. Yeah Pre is fine to unban.

And Twin lost to Torpor Orb, Spellskite, hell, even Path/Dismember. Your point?

Only cards that have a remote chance of being unbanned are BBE and Mystic.

BBE will mean AV can be cascaded into, but thats not too bad without all of the top of library manipulation that goes on in Shardless BUG, so that one seems more likely. I have my playset just in case.

Mystic could be unbanned, BUT its a real problem card because it means they will be scared to print any more good equipment without fear that Stoneforge will abuse it. Also, people seem to forget the power level of that card, it's a tutor that also gets you ridiculously far ahead and cheats on mana, I could see it being unbanned, but not in this B&R.

Everything else in this thread is ludicrous.

Twin existing meant that if you even suspected your opponent was on twin, you had to hold removal for the rest of the game from turn 3 at all times. If you didn't, you lost. It wasn't fun or interactive, it just happened, and didn't require any set up on their turn.

>BBE

Why make one of the best and most consistant decks in modern better?

>they will be scared to print any more good equipment without fear that Stoneforge will abuse it
>implying RnD really give a fuck about what cards they print

Also how is a Jace unban "ludicrous"?

>complaining that someone playing Twin made you have to interact with them
>but also saying it wasn't an interactive deck

?????

Skullclamp should be unbanned.

I think it's a shoe-in we're gonna start seeing "ban creep" targeting planeswalkers. Planeswalkers might not have any real effect on competitive play, but they're a huge price point for the lineage and forcing people to spin in new ones for top dollar is just good business. It's the kind of thing no one will bitch about either because you're losing your one special thing but you're seeing all other decks lose theirs too, and everyone hates dealing with that. The "wheel" ban keeps the format off-balance (like the conversation around Mystic, around bans in general pre-Clamp Era) enough that they can generate interesting results, shake up tournaments, and get more casual players into semi-pro, which is the financial ideal - spending top dollar but not taking it home.

After next set it's a lock to start seeing Planeswalker tricks recycled - maybe not identical abilities, but definitely identical design intentions. Probably it'll be clumsy as fuck but that just helps the "wheel" to keep turning.

this. they won't unban Jayce but they will make a new scrywalker. probably in red to be assholes

How does that kill Nahiri?

Because power creep. Who's playing Nahiri when you can play Jace?

>Bitching about become inmense
Veeky Forums is bad as magic as always
>Jace is too powerful
Is a 3 loyalty planeswalker on Boltening; the format. if he brainstorms, he is dead. and it would take a lot more time for him than nahiri to win.

this
Jace would allow all the control archetype, Any Uxx deck would use it instead of going jeskai for nahiri. i would love it unbanned but wizards is a cunt and hate counterspell based control

Preordain enables UR Storm a lot better than Jace or Ancestral Visions, which WotC doesn't want to exist in Modern.

We won't see Jace unbanned though until more supply is printed to meet the demand for it, so my guess is MM 2017 we'll see him be in the set and unbanned.

As for the 26th, I think Stoneforge Mystic can be unbanned.

>Insults the boards Magic skill
>Then says Jace won't be OP

You're right about the Become Immense thing, but Jace will still be super busted in Modern.

If he brainstorms, and they bolt him, he is dead, sure, but you got to brainstorm, AND they burnt a bolt, so you're down no cards worst case scenario, and up a shitload if you can fetch away useless cards.

You get to also go 3 cards deep looking for a Counterspell for said bolt, and this is all assuming you have a bolt in hand, if they don't, he'll just start Fatesealing your shit away, while their hand is full of gas from the Brainstorm they got.

There's a reason fucking Slash Panther saw play as a Jace Killer for a while, he's ludicrously powerful, and unless they also unban a LOT of other things, he will remain being too powerful.

He is too versatile, and a good player will nearly always win if they resolve a Jace.

My personal thoughts on the matter are that not that many people have actually played against JTMS.

The biggest thing for Jace is that unlike Nahiri, you probably can't slam him down on turn 4 without protection of some kind. Most of the Nahiri decks also run path and bolt to clear the way or expect her to take a hit before clearing the board of dudes next turn.

But you just payed 4 mana for that brainstorm, AND you are now tapped out, in a control deck. In legacy, just paying two mana for a brainstorm can be absolutely backbreaking.

Yeah, he's a really good control finisher, but you need to be in control of the game before you can safely slam him down.

Nahiri can close the game out a lot faster than Jace. I mean the game may technically be over when you resolve Jace sometimes but your opponent's still gonna get a lot of draws.

I could see them being played together.

>Wasting a Counterspell on a bolt
Plz. first i f you have mana to cast jace and a counterspell, then you are past t4 and any aggro deck already would have lost the game

Nobody wastes a 2 or more CMC counter on countering a bolt, a thoughtseize or a duress. Any deck like Jund will have 0 prblems with him. burn and death shadow's zoo can win before he gets online, he is just good against uninteractive linear combo decks

3 nahiri 3 jace 1 emrakul does sound pretty hot

Legacy is a much, much faster format with much more combo and FORCE OF WILL, you can't compare it.

The matches may be longer in legacy, but there are much less turns on average, its just each turn has so many microdecisions.

If Jace is unbanned, you'd be seeing MUCH more UBx in the format, so countering a bolt will be much more common. That was the scenario I was refering too.

He would probably not be played as a 4 of, yes, and I could see him being run as a 3-2 split with him and Nahiri, but he'd still be fucking broken. He does way too much, it's been proven with quadrant theory that he is broken, Jace is NOT healthy in a format without good permission, which is definitely modern at the moment.

He is not bad against any deck, and the decks he is good against, he'd be fucking oppressive to the point where the meta will converge, ESPECIALLY if stoneforge is also unbanned.

You want fucking Cawblade again, but in MODERN with access to more cards?

>You want fucking Cawblade again, but in MODERN with access to more cards?

Yes, because permission decks in modern won't ever be top tier, you will need Jace, And Counterspell, And Daze, And ponder/preordain to have a good reactive deck in modern. Have you seen Esper draw/go in modern? or Mono U tron? they are fucking shit in the first 4 turns of the game. any good deck can get around because control in modern is shit. Jace would help those permission, but he alone wouldn't make control tier -1 as people want to think. Modern is very different to legacy and the many linear strategies can stand a chance against control decks cuz they are faster and deadly

Nothing will change. Modern will continue to rot. Everyone will continue to praise for format.

How about instead of unbanning Jace, ban Nahiri, unban Preordain, and print Counterspell into Modern? That way real control becomes a relevant threat.

>Counterspell
>Daze
>Ponder
>Preordain

None of those existed back in Cawblade days, and it still was a big enough menace to get TWO cards banned from STANDARD.

And Standard back then was a lot stronger, Jund had BBE/Blightning and all of the nastiness and it was still CRUSHED by cawblade.

I think that Jace COULD be unbanned, but only if other things also got unbanned with it that powered up other decks, without powering up the decks with Jace in them.

That's too much effort for Wizards, so they just will keep him banned.

^ and unban Stoneforge

>You want fucking Cawblade again, but in MODERN with access to more cards?
YOU WANT FUCKING FAERIES AGAIN BUT IN MODERN WITH ACCESS TO MORE CARDS? XDDD

Shut the fuck up.

Preordain existed lol, as did Mental Misstep.

Why ban nahiri? what tould then be the clock that control decks could put to finish the game? Rev for 15 and going to time? Yes counterspell is needed in modern but permission alone is not the only thing that make a control deck

>STANDARD.
Never ever compare the power of a card on standard to modern. Bitterblossom dominated standard, Siege Rhino dominated standard, Standard is small and shit. Modern is big and there are too many tools and proven decks to beat jace. if you think cards that dominated standard shouldn't be in modern, then wild Nactl would have never been out of the banlist to begin.

>YOU WANT FUCKING FAERIES AGAIN BUT IN MODERN WITH ACCESS TO MORE CARDS? XDDD

^This. People bitched about Bitterblossom because of how Faeries dominated Standard. Where are they now? About as relevant as Soul Sisters, Ponza and Skred. While I do think Stoneblade would be stronger than Faeries in Modern, I highly doubt it would become the next Eldrazi.

>Why ban Nahiri?

Because Nahiri is not a real control deck, just a tempo deck in disguise. Banning it would promote true control decks.

>print Counterspell into Modern
That would require printing it in Standard, and Rosewater has stated it's a lot like Bolt in how format-warping it is, "but possibly in the right circumstance it might be reprintable." But as it stands, R&D seems to be trying to make Standard not have those "you have to run this to play this color" cards, and it doesn't sound like anyone in particular is pushing Counterspell to be in the format to begin with.

tl;dr don't count on it

So...ban Delver too? LOL

Red is a complete non-colour in Standard. Lightning Bolt would do nothing in the format.

>R&D seems to be trying to make Standard not have those "you have to run this to play this color" cards

New Chandra would beg to differ.

> But as it stands, R&D seems to be trying to make Standard not have those "you have to run this to play this color" cards, unless they are Mythic Rare Planeswalkers.

Fixed.

>Because Nahiri is not a real control deck, just a tempo deck in disguise. Banning it would promote true control decks.

lol

>Because Nahiri is not a real control deck, just a tempo deck in disguise. Banning it would promote true control decks.

Because if it doesn't consistently go into time, it isn't a "true" control deck, right?

Bolt would push red right into the metagame as we know it because of how efficient it is. People will just end up running red even as a splash just to have Bolt.

Well you got me on that one
she doesn't even seem that good compared to JTMS though, which is what literally everyone was comparing her to. JTMS was card advantage stacking on top of itself and very efficient removal, with the world's most destructive ult slapped onto a four mana walker. Her abilities are maybe burn, burn on creatures that has a hefty cost, two whole mana, and more burn that first requires some input from you. As it stands right now, she's going to do literally nothing until things get a little bit less creature-based with cards like Advocate in the format. She'll get rushed down or removed and die before anything could be accomplished. She's going to make a major appearance at the pro tour and everyone is going to be running her like no tomorrow, but she won't do anything against decks that are geared to get rid of problem cards like her.
but that's honestly my opinion

>You want fucking Cawblade again, but in MODERN with access to more cards?
Cawblade was just a tempo-control deck with cards that were relatively overpowered in a format that didn't have the tools to beat it. Stoneforge mystic is what pushed the deck over the top anyway. The non-sensational answer is, yes, modern wants a tempo-control deck.

People forget that Jace didn't see high-level play for half of his standard career. Jace is a very powerful card, but it's ultimately a 4-mana draw spell in a format full of high-value 4-drops. Yes, it's nearly impossible to beat a Jace if he survives a few turns and is in a deck designed to take advantage of him, but is that so bad? If a control deck can go from turns 4 to 7 without taking any damage, it's not a degenerate thing for them to have a card that lets them win in that situation.

Collected company in particular represents a great natural predator for Jace the same way BBE kept jace in check when worldwake was released. Creature decks in modern have fantastic tools to deal with 4-mana planeswalker.

It's not Stoneblade, we don't have Stoneforge. It's...Jace-Hiri? (idk what to call it lol)

I'd like to be able to play with Jitte.

I'm not expecting it to get unbanned though.

Jitte is one of few cards that probably deserves the ban, like Great Furnace, Seat of the Synod, and Blazing Shoal.

Pauper:
Peregrine Drake banned, hopefully Delver of Secrets as well because Delver into Daze into Spell Pierce/Force Spike and Counterspell means you might as well scoop, Izzet Blitz would survive without.

Modern: Become Immense and Conflagrate banned (pumping out power from the yard isn't the problem in itself without the broken starts of Legacy and Vintage Dredge, when it's backed by an asymmetrical 2mana boardwipe it is).
Hoping for a Summer Bloom and/or Splinter Twin unban, but probably won't happen because WOTC would have to admit they fucked up (Summer Bloom wasn't oppressive in any sense of the word, didn't kill before turn 3 too consistently and they admitted Twin was banned just to shake up the PT metagame).

Legacy: Terminus banned, pretty self-explanatory, zoo strategies could actually make a comeback afterwards.

>people are still asshurt over losing to Jace in cawblade that they think he'd be overpowered in modern

>6 mana chandra can plus and do 6 damage
>4 mana chandra can plus and do 6 damage
dont be salty because you didnt get ahold of the 60 dollar at release walker, the bitch is strong as fuck

jaceXnahiri

This is what I want but I know it'll never happen.

Jitte is one of the most busted cards on the ban list. It basically reads: Connect once with it, win all combat for the rest of the game.

Immense is most likely to be on the chopping block because Zooicide and Infect have cleared a few turn 2-3 kills during major events because of it. It's currently the card closest to going over the Turn 4 rule and in two decks.

Best of all, banning Become Immense doesn't invalidate either of those decks, so it won't noticeably reduce the variety of the format.

> it means they will be scared to print any more good equipment without fear that Stoneforge will abuse it.
But they haven't printed any good equipment for a while now.

>BBE
Is unbanned in the MTGO beta client right now, that's why people think it will be unbanned.

Pauper: Peregrine Drake is banned
Modern: Bloodbraid Elf is unbanned
Legacy: Sensei Divining Top is banned

I'm a little suspicious of this guy now. It's too comparable to Lotus Petal, aside from being something you can't recur.

>Sensei Divining Top is banned
I don't want to be the guy who says this but, git gud

>Why make one of the best and most consistant decks in modern better?

Frankly, BBE is fighting too many powerful 4-drops now that Jund may not even care to play it anymore. It doesn't compare favorably with Kalitas.

No, pure control would still be garbage and unable to compete, just like it is now. Tempo-control is the best you can get in modern.

Idk, BBE cascading into Lili or Tarmogoyf or Bob still sounds better then Kalitas.

Jace coming back wouldn't make "pure control" better than what we have now, he'd just be used alongside Nahiri, similar to how he's used alongside either Stoneforge or CounterTop in Legacy. Jace is busted, but he's not Exodia ffs.

fuck you no it doesnt, I would rather play leyline on a stick instead of playing coco with a bolt that can pull my lockdown peice and auto win me the match.

I'm not saying he would, I'm saying banning Nahiri wouldn't make any other control decks any more competitive. I'm not talking about Jace.

Remember?

Sorry meant to reply to

Yeah and people though Arlinn was gonna break Standard LOL

BBE is guaranteed value. And Liliana, Bob, Goyf are all stronger cards than kalitas, the fact that you get a 3/2 haste is just icing.

Thats the joke, bolt issupposedly too strong to reprint yet people think a bolt stapled to an elf with one of the most broken green mechanics to get put on a card is fine.

Bolt is mostly used for instant speed creature kill, not hitting face.

3 damage comming alongside whatever you cascade into is a lot, it was enough to keep jtms from being relevant and is enough to smother a few decks out of the format. Also many walkers are considered bad because they dont protect themselves.

Jeskai fanfic control
>He fell for the chandra meme
Did you also bought narset at 50? pic is for you
Git Gud

Infect just cleared straight through another event.

It's looking more and more likely they're going to have to lose something.

Maybe this can be a now all decks have some side board against infect rather than Modern being a rotating eternal format.

>ban kiln fiend because turn 2 fiend into turn 3 battle rage, shadow rift, mutagenic growth means you might as well scoop

Screencap my godly prediction so you can act like hot shit when the banlist comes out and I'm completely right:

Banned:
>Cranial Plating
>Deceiver Exarch
>Disciple of the Vault

Unbanned:
>Artifact Lands
>Splinter Twin

That's what he means, it kills the current strategy of the deck and it just becomes Junk Deathblade.

>Unbanned:
>>Artifact Lands

>What is Stony Silence

I personally want Counterspell in modern and Simian Spirit Guide banned but we can't all get what we want now can we?

Not when you're at a absurdly low life total and need to start stabilizing, the meta is just too aggressive Jund needs the Lifegain. BBE would see play but not insta-4 of in the current version of Jund.

>Legacy
>much more combo
>than Modern

Ayy, look who's never played Legacy.

No changes
No changes
No changes

>Hey guys how about we make Modern even more reliant on drawing your silver bullets?
How about fuck off.

You're an idiot

Well, the only viable combo decks are Ad Naus and Scapeshift, and scapeshift is becoming titanshift. Legacy has 3 Storms, Elves, Aluren, Food chain, Charbelcher, Oops all spells, Show and tell, Reanimator, Omnitell.

the "we'll never be able to print better equipment" argument doesn't hold water, because they're never gonna print equipment better than Batterskull, Jitte, or the Swords. You can't make the same argument against Stoneforge as, say, Birthing Pod.

Honestly I'd love to see Stoneforge, a turn 3 Batterskull to stop some of the mindless aggro in its tracks would be great. There's plenty of other degenerate turn 3 plays in this format, so it wouldn't be a big deal, especially with Kolaghan's Command and all the artifact hate.

>unban
>splinter twin

Wizards will eventually do this because the card isn't overpowered and the deck that it creates also isn't overpowered but it's just too close to when they banned it

They won't go back on their word so quickly. Especially since they wrote several paragraphs about why it needed to be banned (so they could sell more eldrazi packs)