Thanks to the nightmare that is children, I found myself watching the Star Wars prequel trilogy again this past weekend...

>If you could go back and change something you did in your games, what would it be?

Never try to surprise players with what I'm running. Be very clear ahead of time what a game will be about.

Never take advice from anyone else about how to house rule stuff.

Don't try to run anything in an established setting, especially not Star Wars.
(That rule I'll probably break again at some point, Star Wars is like the terrible girlfriend I cannot stay broken up from.)

Never agree to let anyone play in my games I don't know.

Never co-GM a game.

Never make the plot dependent on one character.

Never allow more than 6 or less than 4 players in a game.

And, as a player, never complain to a GM about his methods. Either accept them or leave the game. If you order constructive criticism, you will at best be ignored, at worst punished.

That's your biggest complaint? My mind is blown.

It's a complaint on principle, rather than a practical issue with the movies.

No, I re-watched them and the OT when VII came out, and the thing that struck me is that the whole trilogy felt like everything that happened only happened so that it would fit into the OT, which it still kind of bungled. Nobody did things for self-consistent reasons, it was only because those things had to be done because that's what has to be done for New Hope to happen. Obi-Wan had no real reason to take Anakin after Qui-gon died, Padme was only into creepy-ass Anakin because Luke and Leia had to come from somewhere, Anakin only fell to the dark side because he has to be Darth Vader.

>irl problems made me flake on a game i dmed
Shit i still feel so bad about it.
Was going epic and was right near the end.
Had the party about to be gangbanged by just about every malevolent enitity/force simultaneously, half of the party was helping one enemy or another, and every player had a different idea of what was going on they were 100% convinced by.
They were a few sessions from exterminatusing their own asses i swear

Of all the things to complain about, those? Lucas's directing was a bigger issue.

Don't cave in to player pressure when they want to play a fanwank game based on Harry Potter. Sensible games and Harry Potter do not go hand in hand.

I can imagine, far too much of Harry Potter is obviously made up on the spot in the books.

If you're not going to prepare food and drinks your the group yourself, you should say yes to the players who want to bring food and drink.

>how the trilogy would have been improved if they made Jar Jar a sith

>I shouldn't have let players make themselves as characters in a zombie apoc. game, they should have done it as a group.

>number of posters before this: 10
>number of posters after this: 10
>Samefaggotry detected.

>Never make the plot dependent on one character.
God, so much this.

Waaay back when I first started GMing, I ran a GURPS campaign for my siblings.

My sister was kind of a flake, so being some sort of world class genius I made a huge part of the plot center around a medallion that she had stolen. That way, she would feel obligated to continue playing!

It worked about as well as you'd expect.

> Don't play a game involving intrigue and betrayal with that guy who tried to choke someone when his dnd character got pvp killed.

> Don't play a game involving intrigue and betrayal with that guy who tried to choke someone when his dnd character got pvp killed.

>tried to choke someone

Jesus fucking Christ, user. Tell me you don't still play with them. The worst my group has ever seen was one player telling our GM that if his character of 6 years dies in a fight, he'd hit him. And that got the player a stern talking to.

No we stopped playing with him.
Eh, you know what. Story time guys. Give me a minute.

Ok, so here's one of tthe stories of James, I've been looking for a good time to tell it.

> 19, in college playing 3.5e with friends.

> the 3 rotating dms are me, Sam, and Franco. We are the 3 competent players as well. The others either never bothered to learn or didn't care much.

> Then there is James. James plays a self insert of his self inserted wow mage. In his mind this is a charismatic chaotic-stupid half elf sorcerer who only takes evocation spells. He also has a nasty habit of wanting every piece of cool sounding loot, even when the "loot" is really just an intricately described thing we are supposed to sell for gold as it does nothing.

> Sam is dming, he gives us a slull necklace which resonates of evil magic. Our quest is to iinvestigatethe necklace..

> Franco, being a Paladin, insists in character he take the evil artifact.

> Too late though, as James, being the self appointed party face has snatxhed the necklace and won't give it up.

> Fast forward, James is left unconscious after a fight, Franco goes over to revive him and before doing so takes the skull, not trusting a chaotic stupid with an evil artifact.

> James pitches an OOC fit then as soon as he gets up says he takes it back. Franco says no, Jaes says to roll initiative not understanding a low level evocation only sorc can't fight a well optimized paladin. Franco hits him over the head, James is now unconscious again.

> In a fit of rage he leaves.

> Later that night he confronts Franco in his room, demands an apology.

> Franco explains it was just roleplaying, he did what his character would do. James isn't having it.

> He backs Franco into a corner and demands an apology. Franco lays a hand on his shoukder and whispers "The skull is mine." James tries to choke him.

So, was he provoked? Yeah, a little, Franco is a bit smarmy, but James was also already a known that guy by this point, not trusting him in character was a good idea. Either way it was fun to watch.

>Don't let your players play custom classes unless you're certain a standard class can't fill the same role.
>Don't let a player use metagaming to get away with actions that cause disturbances within the group (such as stealing from a party member.)
>Don't let players go through the motions on a fight where the outcome is already decided. Morale failure exists for a reason.
>Similarly, don't let them go through the motions because they feel there is no other option beyond killing every enemy, especially if said enemy is difficult to kill but not particularly dangerous and said fight will take over an hour. The the session of Piercer slaying must never be forgotten.

Plan out the adventure in the Border Princes a bit better, really hammer home the concept of hiring people to do the tedious job of ruling so that it doesn't turn the game into a spreadsheet simulator and try to finish the campaign before half the group leaves so that I wouldn't have to sack the enemy town with Crusaders just to have some kind of conclusion.

>James tries to choke him.

James needs legitimate help. He's either got some mental issues, or he should just be incarcerated.

>Don't drink and DM if you can't hold your liquor

>I'm a retard who doesn't know my fucking lore

>Jedi Clone Troopers would be cool!

>Movies about Force Feedback resonence kills the clones and the Jedi
>Sith Victory!

Yeah, we were theorizing that he might be a bit asburgery right around the time we stopped spending any time with him whatsoever. Homestly the only reason I think we hung out with him for so long was he was fucking loaded. We also I think thought we could help him a bit. It didn't work.

And when I say tries to choke don't get the wrong idea. He wasn't looking to cause serious harm more extort an apology out of him. Still pretty fucked up, but not incarceration leveks of fucked up.

>Movies about Force Feedback resonence kills the clones and the Jedi
>Thinking a clone of a jedi would automatically be able to use the force
>Thinking having legions of dopplegangers so the sith can't figure out which one is the jedi is a bad idea
>Say midichlorians, I fucking dare you.

>or if the clone wars had been about clones of jedi rather than some New Zealander.

I don't know. A war of multiple Fellowships all vying for the same ring would be kinda cool.

>Stop inviting the alt. chick to your games because you think one day she might pity fuck you. She ruins everything she plays in and she's not a great lay anyway.

>the skull is mine
Kek

Still pretty messed up. Good thing you don't play with them anymore. Anyone who resorts to violence over a game is not someone worth knowing.

>Don't wait until after you've done solo prologue sessions to have a session 0 and then figure out you have 3 utility/support-based characters.

Dude, you had your goonies campaign spelled out for you.

>While watching, I had the normal reactions. Internal monologues of how the trilogy would have been improved if they downplayed Jar Jar and made him a sith

Who the ever loving fuck ever had this reaction

>complains about people using theories from Reddit
>something you would only know if you went on reddit
Huh...
Franco's a bad player, James is a bad person.

>if they downplayed Jar Jar and made him a sith
>Mesa can feel yousa anger.
>Mesa be thinkin' yousa be turnin' to the dark side now, okieday?

Gimme back my skull muddafukka!

What the hell was all that preamble about, anyway?

Why not just make a "If you could go back and change something you did in your games, what would it be?" thread?

Is your name Carlos?

By this point we were all a little tired of James' bullshit. Franco later admitted he was acting provocative, but frankly none of us faulted him for it. I'll post another James story to show what an asshole he was.

Nope.

>Don't DM three PbP games simultaneously while you have college engineering classes and personal issues that require you to take medicine
>At least not Dungeons and Dragons games
Seriously, what the fuck was I thinking?

James Part 2:

This will be a relatively short one. But if there is genuine interest I could be convimced to share more.

> Same year.
> This time I'm GM.
> At the time I hadn't really come into my own as a GM, most of my games were silly one shots, the players expected a humorous non serious game and that is what they got.
> This time I actually put some effort into something with so,e depth.
> I'd talked it up a bit, saying this time I'd put some real thought into the game, it wasn't going to devolve into skeleton humor or Doc Aquatic Random Adventure Table shit, etc.
> It's the beginning of the game and I'm explaining some shit to the players after an encounter.
> The encounter was like pullingteeth every time it was James turn and now he keeps asking me to repeat myself cause - get this - He's playing fucking WoW. The character that his Dnd character is an insert of.
> I tell him he can either play WoW or play DnD but not do both. He gets pissy amd leaves back to his dorm to play WoW.
> Later that session Franco's soul was put into a metal golem. Even though I said no silly bullshit I couldn't help myself when he said he wanted to test out hus golem body in the nearest brothel.
> I give a defeated sigh and describe a newrby brothel.
> "I go up to the owner amd say 'Give me your loosest most used up filthy whore you can find, she needs to be able to fit this.'"
> I get a glint in my eye.
> A smirk crosses my face.
> I kmow I shouldn't do it, I kmow the whole game will get derailed.
> Fuck it.
> "But of course sir, give me one moment and we'll fetch James' mom."

>"But of course sir, give me one moment and we'll fetch James' mom."

I applaud you, sir.

Got a little chuckle, but it's sounding like your relationship with James is mutually self-destructive. You're starting to sound as bad as he is.

Come on, dude, that's almost as cringeworthy as the one /r9k/-tier joke I dropped in high school.

It was pretty shitty relationship. He definitely brought out the worst in all of us. It was why we stopped being friends with him. Aside from ripping on his mom behind his back though I don't see what was so bad about all that. Asking him to not play wow during my game? Seems resonable to me.
It was funny as fuck when I was 19. Maybe it wouldn't be now. But since I remember it being funny I still find it funny.

>Asking him to not play wow during my game? Seems resonable to me.
The fact that he was playing in the first place is a bad sign.

Additionally, as the GM you should have been above petty shit like that.

James is definitely a shit based on what you're telling us, but based on what you're saying you are a good match.

D&D game - playing a Paladin, insisted on keeping on my plate armour and when clearing some mines. Couldnt look up because of the great helm I was wearing and was dissolved by the Green slime that was danging from the ceiling in the entrance I bravely entered first.

You don't think it's possible that user's behavior was first influenced by James' shitty attitude?

A bad sign as in me not being able to tell a good story? I suppose that couldbe a fair criticism. I was new to dming at the time, but I would say asking a player to pay attention to my game or not play isn't hostile or petty. I didn't ask him to leave, he was welcome to sit and listen. Was the mom joke pertty? Yes. But it was also a goof among friends. Keep in mind that, as much as I make James out to be the bad guy now. I did genuinely consider him a friemd at the time. Our relationship mostly deteriorated due to his irl behavior not in game behavior. When his in game behavior became to problematic we just didn't play with him anymore ajd found other things to do.

I'd be surprised if it wasn't. But if they're a shitty person, and it's making you be a shitty person back then you're just as bad as each other.

I'm just wondering how he was playing WoW in the first place. Did you just let him open up his laptop and play off the bat?

> did genuinely consider him a friemd
>Making cheap jokes at his mother

Dude, that's a shitty way to treat your friend. It'd at least have been better if he was just an asshole you put up with so you could have a full group.

Like I said, James sounds like an ass - but it looks like he was in the right group.

I ket my players be on their laptops during games to look up rules, spells, tske notes, play music that set the mood, erc. It hadn't been a problem in the past. In my group it was the norm to bring your laptop to dnd games for just that purpose. James kept his game on mute so I didn't notice at first.

As for your second point, I don't know man. Cheap mom jokes were pretty common in my friend group, we were fresh out of high school. We ripped on eachother. I'm not saying I didn't cross the line. But James and I in particular built our friendship insulting one another. A lot of people thoughtwe hated each other, and when we actuallydid start hating eachother it was for completly different reasons.

Still sounds like James fit in well with the rest of you.

I suppose since you don't know the entire story, and since I am in no mood to go over the entire saga of James, ig behavior and oog behavior. I can't really fault you for that opinion or argue my point any farther.

I'll say midichlorians AND Dorsk 81.
I dare to say that midichlorian numbers can be random, even with cloning involved.

>scene where Jar Jar reveals to be a Sith
>His speech pattern becomes perfectly normal right before it.

The group as a whole seems pretty dysfunctional. James was just the guy who couldn't handle that.

Like, Franco obviously started that skull thing. We go on about how party members shouldn't steal from each other, even if it's "what they would do", and usually that's in the context of CN but it still applies to Paladins. Obviously, James went full turbotard, but he's not a Disney villain.
>>Making cheap jokes at his mother
That's what friends are for.

>Making cheap jokes at his mother
>That's what friends are for.

Yeah, but you make the jokes TOO the person ABOUT their mother. That's friendly.

If you start making jokes about their mother behind their back to other people, then you've moved from friendly into early stage bullying.

>Yeah, but you make the jokes TOO the person ABOUT their mother. That's friendly.
It depends entirely on context. If you're all good mates, you can extend ribbing to each other, "behind their backs". But I agree, it can also easily put you in the situation of "we don't really like this guy hanging out with us so we'll slag him off but we won't actually stop him hanging out with us", which is stupid.

But that's not bullying (though it can be). It's just slagging someone off.

One of the biggest lessons I thankfully learned relatively early is to never count on the players to react in a certain way just to progress the plot.

At one time I had this fantastic adventure planned (at least I thought it would be fantastic), but part of it hinged entirely on the players picking up on a big plot hook. Needless to say, they ended up completely ignoring the plothook and spent an entire session just faffing about in a shitty tavern and terrorising the locals for no goos reason.

>But that's not bullying (though it can be). It's just slagging someone off.

That's...bullying, user.

It ain't as bad as beating on someone, but badmouthing people behind their backs is a form of emotional bullying.

> Telling a joke about his mom behind his back is bullying.
> He literally choked a guy in one story, and completely disrespected the GM in another.

The other guys in these stories are being assholes but not as big assholes as James, it seems to me their toxicity is rooted in James behavior. Really my only question is why keep him around?

>super dangerous evil skull artifact
>objective is to (safely) investigate it
>chaotic dumbfuck sorcerer gets a hold of it because of ooc dibs and whining
The Paladin was 110% in the right here.

I know what bullying is. And beating someone up doesn't equal bullying either.

This isn't about method. It's about the context, and the length of such actions. You're not bullying that one guy you think is an arsehole if you tell your friend he's an arsehole, for example. You are bullying if you make fun of this guy who hangs out with you, and you do it all the time, and you do it in such a way that it directly affects them.

Also, I'd say it's definitely as bad as beating someone up.
>It's what my character would do

It works the other way too. He can act like that in response to their previous actions. In fact, he certainly did, even if he was the one first at fault.

>The fuck is wrong with Veeky Forums today
A couple of people woke up to shit in their cornflakes this morning.

> He certainly did.
I think what you are missing here is that what op and his friends do seems like a normal person's response to getting pissed off by another player, whereas James seems to just fucking flip out. If I'm coming off as a condescending asshole I really don't mean to but think of it this way.

> Op explains that his previous games were kind of silly and lacked depth.
> He makes one he put a lot of effort into and tells his players, this implies not only that he is proud of his work, but that he really wants his players to both take seriously, and enjoy his game.
> The player who OP claims is already an established that guy (unclear if this was before or after the skull incident chronologically) disrespects OP by playing a computer game and not paying attention.
> After OP tells him he won't permit him to play both at once instead of realizing he was being rude he only gets angry and leaves, potentially derailing the game or at least setting a negative tone on a game OP put a lot of work into.

I'm not saying OPs joke wasn't mean, maybe it even was bullying I dunno. But I completely understand why he was salty about it, and why he moght want to vent that salt amkng like minded people
As for the skull thing, maybe Franco was a bit dickish, but choking a guy? Come on.
Either way I agree with here.

>kill the metagaming bard early

> It's what my character would do.
Yes, exactly. I camnot fucking stand this meme.This can 100% be a valid excuse when, given the situation it is WHAT THE CHARACTER WOULD DO. Being able toplay a character who has flaws and doesn't always make the best choices is part of rping. Any decent role player, scratch that, anyone who isn't fucking autistic should be able to tell the difference between an in character action and an ooc action and not take ic actions personally. There is a difference between using ic action to justify being a dick and actually acting ic in a way that brings about conflict and development in game.

>it seems to me their toxicity is rooted in James behavior

Based on what the guy said later, it sounds pretty mutual. They both sound pretty toxic.

>You are bullying if you make fun of this guy who hangs out with you, and you do it all the time, and you do it in such a way that it directly affects them.

I'd say continuously making fun and insulting a person behind there backs to people they thought were their friends fit's this description, as it would build up an 'us vs them' mentality which seems to fit what the guy described.

>Also, I'd say it's definitely as bad as beating someone up.

Eh. Sticks and stones, user. Sticks and stones. But it's neither here nor there. I'd argue that continual beating is worse than continual emotional abuse - largely because physical abuse will also have an element of emotional abuse tied in with it.

Unless you think nothing of the idea of being beaten beyond the physical damage it causes, and don't think that it would also cause lasting emotional trauma from being rendered powerless.

>implying most fa/tg/uys don't eat shit for breakfast anyway

It's what ANY Paladin SHOULD do. You don't need to be a power tripping asshole or Lawful Stupid to make that choice.
>There is a difference between using ic action to justify being a dick and actually acting ic in a way that brings about conflict and development in game.
Unfortunately, "what my character would do" is an excuse used by dicks all the time. To the point where it is almost memetic.

Lucas's lack of directing, you mean.

>Don't assume "solving this standoff with the bad guy in your usual way is self-evidently a horrible trap" will have any impact whatsoever on Party Leader's actions.

That theory has been all over youtube as well.

>It's what ANY Paladin SHOULD do.

If it's such a bad idea for the Paladin to let him carry the item, why is the Paladin travelling with him? Why hasn't he taken actions before this? Said something to him? Why is the talisman the point the Pally goes 'Hold the fucking phone'.

Op said they were low level. Seems likely it was one of the first few sessions.

Also there's no reason to believe the pally hadn't had problems in the past with the sorc. Op never said if there was conflict between pally and sorc before or not. It coukd be this was a culmination of tother things, it could be this was the first time. We can't know.

James user here. Since this debate is still going aparently I will give you guus the cliff notes on my relationship with James, amd hopefully shed some light as to why we were such a toxic group.
Part 1:
> When I first met James in my freshman year of college we were fast friends, he liked dumb youtube videos and Mass effect, so did I. He seemed a bit awkward, but hey, so am I.
> After a few months he had his first sort of "incident." It was then I learned James had a very short temper, and seemed to take people disagreeing with him or things not going his way personally.
> As time progressed we saw more and more shittyness from him. He was selfish, egotistical, an alcoholic, overly sensitive, behaved grossly toward women (not blatant sexism more cringy attempts at being a womanizer), he couldn't stand not getting his way, he largely behaved like a spoiled child. But he was still our friend, we liked him.
> Things got worse and worse with him and it became clear to me I was mostly staying friends with him because despite all the times he got upset at us, we were still his closest, dearest friends. He didn't have many others and he would be crushed if we stopped hanging out with him.
> The obvious solution would be to talk with him about his behavior, and we did multiple times. The problem is it always went one of two ways.
> 1. We played the part of concerned friends worried about how his behavior seemed destructive. In this case he would graciously thank us for being concerned and then explain why we were wrong and his behavior was actually fine. His infamous "I'm a high functioning alcoholic" speech comes to mind.
> 2. We would give him a bit of tough love, explain he was doing things that put a strain on our friendship and he needed to stop. We did this once, he got so angry and upset he literally had his parents pay for him to fly home for a few days.

Part 2:
> So, to summarize, my friends and I were stuck in a toxic, and what one person even called abusive relationship.
> As much as we disliked him from time to time we cared about him and didn't want to hurt his feelings. But his behavior showed no signs of ever improving.
> His led us to feel resentful of him, and attack him when he wasn't around. It was our only way of venting our frustration and annoyance with him since, being the socially awkward people we were, we could neither get him to change, nor find a way to deal with the situation by ither means without hurting him.
> So were we mean to James? Yes, very, and often. But only because there was an unspoken agreement that even though nome of us really liked have him around we also weren't about to ruin his entire college experience by abandoning him. We had no other way of expressing our frequent anger and frustration with him than to rip on him when he wasn't aroumd.
> Eventually his problems got to be too much when he started harassing Franco and is girlfriend (whom he had a crush on, she was creeped out by him from the stsrt as many women are.) So we dropped the bomb, told him we were all getting a new house next year, he was welcome to visit but living with him put too much strain on our friendship. And that was it. He hated us from then on.

Damnit, Horus, not again

>something you would only know if you went on reddit
What has to happen in your life to lead you to make a statement as stupid as this.

>Don't play a one-shot M&M game as the Batman villains trying to take down the caped crusader with someone who actually spends a significant portion of his income on Batman comics.
Did he make it too easy or no-sale every plan?

done right, that could have been really chilling.
"All these years debasing myself... did you really suspect nothing, Jedi Master Kenobi?"

>He would have fought Mace, and that would have been the fight to watch. Yoda, Palpatine, Anakin and Obi Wan all have to live, because they appear in the good trilogy

>no-sale every plan?

This. And he was a player. I was willing to give them some flexibility and get away with some shit because, hey, it was a Batman Villain one-shot. But this guy would actively tell us all why nothing we could ever do would work.

When I asked why he was playing, all he said was 'I like Batman'.

I'd have enjoyed that. Jar Jar would make an interesting drunken-master style fighter.

People necessarily react to what comes down to other people's reactions. If James is a sperg, or just a dick, and other people react to this negatively, he will himself react to this further. So even if the fault is pretty squarely on his shoulders, he is still acting in response to their actions.

>Unless you think nothing of the idea of being beaten beyond the physical damage it causes, and don't think that it would also cause lasting emotional trauma from being rendered powerless.
You are clearly not thinking of the scale of things here.

Most people, when beaten up, are beaten up by a few people. When bullying is social, it involves everybody. And all the time.
>It's what ANY Paladin SHOULD do
Why?

Games are games, user. They're not real life. You don't have to do what you should do all the time, when it would bring about utterly meaningless party conflict.

And that's what this is.

> Games are games.
Yes. Games are games. James shouldn't get pissed when something bad happens to him in game.

I'd be less thirsty and stop trying to fuck every pair of tits at the table. The ones that turn me down aren't the problem, it's the ones that have said "yes". You faggots would do well to remember that there is no way to un-fuck someone.

I don't disagree with you.

Well, maybe he should get pissed, but he shouldn't choke someone.

The problem is that you were using Gotham villains to fight Batman.
Try it again, and open it up a little. DC villains only, versus Batman and Batfamily members if you like.
No involving the Justice League on either side. Bruce can't call in a solid from Clark, and no Brainwashed Superman.

Just pray they don't get the idea to pull out Superboy Prime or something.

>Most people, when beaten up, are beaten up by a few people. When bullying is social, it involves everybody. And all the time.

You've obviously never been beaten badly before.

As someone who has been assaulted and had social bullying levered against me, I assure you - they're both as bad as each other. Bones heal, but remembering that you weren't strong enough to defend yourself lasts.

>perfectly normal
That IS perfectly normal for a Gungan.

>not taking a really hard look at the system the newbie DM wanted to run and making sure it wasn't the disorganized garbage fuckfest we've discovered it to be now
could've saved us a few weeks of our lives
FUCK mekton

really makes you think.....

/qst/ fractured the community.

My lesson is that you must always keep the plot simple. Players will find a way to complicate it anyway.

Don't let the party befriend a Kenku with perfect forgery abilities.
Don't let the party face and IRL lawyer talk your merchant's guild into providing a higher reward on the condition that it comes in the form of bonds payable only to guild owned stores.

BIG MISTAKE

>they're both as bad as each other.
That's what I said, user.

I haven't been beaten, but my friends were, badly. My point was that they're both about equal in badness, though they have different effects. People tend to just sideline social bullying.