What powers might you find in a creature of the 4th dimension, something that can straddle 1D/2D/3D/4D at will?
Context: Rifts, elevating a shifter into a godling via a ritual incorporating relevant spells, power and summoning circles, and kidnapped alternate versions of himself from parallel dimensions sacrificed to create a multidimensional version of the primary personality (his).
What powers might you find in a creature of the 4th dimension, something that can straddle 1D/2D/3D/4D at will?
Bentley Sullivan
Noah Hughes
Teleportation comes first to mind. Move along the 4th dimension axis, move where you need to along the three other dimensions, and then return back along the 4th axis.
Depending on how far you push it, he can essentially be nearly invincible, simply by dodging along the 4th axis to evade.
Colton Fisher
Assuming you mean a 4th spatial dimension.
Well from our perspective, such a being would
A) look really, really weird. Because, basically, seeing a 4D creature in 3D would be equivalent to seeing the shadow of a 3D creature- you're seeing it with one of its dimensions cut off. From the perspective of a 3D entity, a 4D entity would seem to move super erratically, spontaneously change size and shape, appear and disappear, etc.
B) It would, from our perspective, be able to 'phase' through solid objects by moving around them in the 4th dimension. Imagine you're a 2D person, and you encounter someone 3D- it'd be able to pull off all kinds of weird movement nonsense (from your perspective) by moving in the 3rd dimension as well as the 2 you can move in. It also might break up into multiple forms that could disappear, re-merge, etc (as you're effectively seeing a cross-section of the entity).
C) Continuing with that, a 4D entity would be able to see ALL parts of 3D objects, including all parts of the inside, simultaneously, and interact with these parts independently of the other parts. It could reach into a person, grab their bones, and remove them, without touching the rest of that person. No 3D containment would hinder it, since it can walk 'around' closed rooms etc. It could also be impossible to harm- even if it failed to phase 'around' anything we threw at it, it could just refrain from putting any important parts of itself into our 3D world, keeping its organs and such out of reach.
D) If theories like Riemann's metric tensors hold, a 4D entity might be able to resist or manipulate fundamental forces like electromagnetism or gravity in the 3rd dimension.
Parker Bell
Charles Martinez
Have you read Spaceland? The whole forward/back/left/right/up/down/vinn/vout movement is cool, there's a 4D Transformation spell in Rifts for precedent. I'm hoping that someone here thinks of something that I haven't read yet.
Do you think metamorphosis would be a reasonable extension of being a subcreature of 4D?
Aiden Adams
read Flatland, it lays out the effect of having a higher dimension interact with a lower dimension.
Things get a different and more complex as for each dimension shifted, but from 2 to 3 isn't adding too much more and 3 to 4 won't either. Unlike moving from 0 to 1 to 2.
And things don't get really weird again until 9 dimensions, where we know that the radius of a hypersphere contained within a hypercube, is larger than the sides of the hypercube.
Sebastian Lewis
>reach into a person, grab all their bones, and remove them
so long user, and thanks for all the nightmares
Carson Powell
But would they still be able to move like that if they were inhabiting the third dimension? Would they not be subject to our constraints? assumption that they can move freely between our dimension and the next?
Adam Gonzalez
okay so you're thinking of 'dimension' as in 'world'. Think of it more as in 'direction'.
if a 4D being can exist in our reality, it means our reality has a fourth dimension it can exist in. Or at least poke a tiny sliver of itself in from.
Honestly, Flatland does a better job of explaining this sort of thing than I ever could.
Hunter Thompson
What about Super Paper Mario?
Adrian Turner
Adding to the bone thing.
A 4d creature could take a 3d person out of our dimension and put them in backwards. Like, to them everything would seem flipped horizontally, but for everyone else they would be flipped. Lefties become righties and all that.
Like if you picked a square out of flatland and put in in upside-down, but one dimension extra.
Joseph Morales
>But would they still be able to move like that if they were inhabiting the third dimension? Would they not be subject to our constraints?
Think of it like a chessboard, the chessmen can move forward and back and side to side. Ignore that the chessmen themselves are 3d objects, and pretend they are 2d entities.
Now imagine a chessman gets in a fight with a 3d entity. The chessman can see the bit of the 3d entity that intersects his 2d reality, and tries to hit it with his sword. The 3d entity jumps up to avoid the blow, now to the chessmen, the 3d entity has vanished, since the chessman has no ability to deal with up or down. The 3d entity lands behind the chessman, says "psh.. nothing personnel kid" (Sorry I had to) and stabs him. To a bystander chessman it looks like the 3d entity teleported, but the 3d entity violated no rules of the 2d world to do so, it was just free to move in another dimension. It was free to so because the universe that the 2d chessmen inhabit had at least 3 dimensions.
Terribly sorry if this rather crude example has glossed over an important multi-dimensional fact, I'm trying to simplify something I have a basic (and possibly incorrect) understanding of.
Oliver Wilson
>'dimension' as in 'world. Think of it more as 'direction'
>Chessboard
I understand the concept of it being a direction perfectly, I just don't understand why they'd be able to exploit that direction. If a 4th dimension exists among us, what does that say about the 4th dimension? Is it just an attached abstraction of the dimension we're in? Should 4 dimensional creatures not be all around us then? It would HAVE to represent another realm. So when a 4d creature is in a 3d realm, why would it be able to exploit the 4th dimension, when the 4th dimension isn't present?
Parker Ortiz
>when the 4th dimension isn't present
We don't know if there isn't one
IIRC Some Theories try to explain particle physics by having 10 spatial dimensions, of which we usually act in 3 and of which 7 are so tiny, that with normal energy levels they have no effect on us
Maybe there is a fourth dimension, but our 3D matter can't interact with it
Easton Collins
But we need to reconcile whatever relationship the 4th dimension may have with the 3rd with the assumed fact of a 4 dimensional creature roaming around interacting with us. Where does the 4 dimensional creature come from? Has it always lived among us? Are there a whole bunch of them? Most people talk about it like it's an alien thing that showed up, something not native to "our" dimension. If the 4th dimension is ever present then shouldn't 4 dimensional creatures be ever present as well? It still inhabits three dimensions of space, it's readily perceptible to us despite that imperceptible fourth.
Wyatt Anderson
>Where does the 4 dimensional creature come from?
other places in 4th dimensional hyperspace that don't intersect with our particular 3rd dimensional space.
>Has it always lived among us?
maybe, even our 3d space is super huge. Or maybe it just never stumbled upon our 3d space yet, and we're some weird pocket within 4d hyperspace.
or maybe 4d hyperspace is mostly empty, or has lots of gaps between 'slices' of 3d space.
>It still inhabits three dimensions of space, it's readily perceptible to us despite that imperceptible fourth.
only if it's presently intersecting with our space.
Isaac Richardson
Which spell is that? I don't have the books on hand.
Robert Scott
>Has it always lived among us
Maybe. Depends on how places of different dimensions interact
Is there just one place, which has beings of dimensions 1 to infinity? Then they are always there, just not interacting with you, just as you are not interacting with the 2D beings just as said
If each slice is infinitely thin then in just a centimeter or a inch or whatever other measurement you have there are infinitely many slices. But if you are some distance away you would never interact with them.
Are there different worlds (what we usually call "alternate dimensions") for each dimensionality? 2D worlds distinct from 3D worlds distinct from 4D worlds and so on? then it is from such a world and may only show this "extra-dimensionality" to lower beings coming to their world, a flatlander in sphereland
Evan Gray
atomic-robo.com
This might inspire you user.
Jayden Miller
This got me interested in RIFTS not. Is there any OEF or OCR version? I only have found pdfs with no real text layer, so they are not searchable and stuff.
Currently trying to cobble together a ORCd version with mutool and tesseract, but that may take a while, so I wanted to ask if I can save that time.
Josiah Hill
>other places in 4th dimensional hyperspace that don't intersect with our particular 3rd dimensional space.
Why would it be able to exist within a single dimension of space? It's comprised of four dimensions - height, width, depth, and that special extra something. For it to just inhabit the fourth dimension means its essentially folding in on itself and forsaking its original form, which basically boils down to a "its magic don't question it" mechanic.
>maybe, even our 3d space is super huge. Or maybe it just never stumbled upon our 3d space yet, and we're some weird pocket within 4d hyperspace.
or maybe 4d hyperspace is mostly empty, or has lots of gaps between 'slices' of 3d space.
This seems like we're going back to the suggestion that the "fourth dimension" is not just an additional direction of space but an entirely separate realm, which is a more useful explanation but is also being disputed somewhat in this thread.
>Is there just one place, which has beings of dimensions 1 to infinity? Then they are always there, just not interacting with you, just as you are not interacting with the 2D beings just as said
If each slice is infinitely thin then in just a centimeter or a inch or whatever other measurement you have there are infinitely many slices. But if you are some distance away you would never interact with them.
But how would we explain us not perceiving 2 dimensional beings, and not being surrounded by evidence of other-dimensional beings in general? Do we just mistake the signs for mundane phenomena? Do we never realize when we're interacting with beings of other dimensions?
>Are there different worlds (what we usually call "alternate dimensions") for each dimensionality?
This explanation works the best imo
Nathaniel Fisher
forgot your (you)
Michael Baker
>Why would it be able to exist within a single dimension of space?
Nobody says that it only exists in a single dimension of space. The important word in the other anons sentence is 'intersect'. Lay a 2d plane down at any point in the universe, and >99.9% of the universe will never be observable for any flatlander inhabiting the 2d plane.
Same for us. A great deal of the 4d space does at no point intersect with our 3d room. Hence we can't see the majority of what lies in the 4th dimension.
Noah Brooks
>intersect with our 3d room.
I should have said "our slice of the 3d room". That's a bit clearer I think.
Liam Wright
Here, watch this, then consider your options.
Mason Gomez
While I like the video it is more about the 4th dimension as time as I see it.
I just found this: youtube.com
Mason Thomas
>Have you read Spaceland?
Came in here to post this. Also Sphereland, but it's more of a direct sequel to Flatland, rather than an exploration of the higher dimensions.
Hunter Jones
That makes more sense, but what comprises a "point" of intersection? It seems kind of arbitrary to determine some finite amount of space in which entities of one dimension can interact with the other. And how come we aren't able to interact with other dimensions in this way?
Justin Cooper
>What powers might you find in a creature of the 4th dimension, something that can straddle 1D/2D/3D/4D at will?
STORYTIME
Owen Sanders
First part is unrelated, but posting it anyway
You get what you pay for
Isaiah Green
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Leo Walker
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Robert Phillips
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Wyatt Miller
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Samuel Carter
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Luke Hernandez
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Eli Brooks
Please explain this one further. I can not even begin to understand this one.
Chase Lopez
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Oliver Allen
x, y, z, and time.
4th is time
it exist at all times simultaenously
Ryan Jenkins
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Levi Reed
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Austin Allen
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Xavier Sanders
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Robert White
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Colton Foster
Here's the part I wanted to show OP
Noah Russell
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John Long
I think he means to compare say, flipping a 2d sheet over in 3d space to mirroring a 3d object in 4d space. I don't think it would work like that, and if it would, would be fairly destructive to living tissue, since you would need to find some way to keep everything intact while moving it in the human-foreign 4d space.
Jose Sullivan
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Juan Green
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Carter Mitchell
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Michael Rodriguez
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Logan Mitchell
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Nathan Davis
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Matthew Roberts
>Why would it be able to exist within a single dimension of space?
It doesn't. Sorry, new user just jumping into the discussion. As I am thinking of it, imagine a battle on a grid with all combatants in 3 dimensions. Each element has it's 3d coordinates on the X, Y, and Z axes. The entire battlefield has a single 4th dimensional value, like a single slice mentioned earlier. A 4d creature would likely be able to alter the dimensions they are on as easily as we could. And we can't, we're fixed 3d objects.
So if they share similar XYZ coordinates but decide to move across the 4th axis, they will still be on the exact same field in almost the exact same place, but would be invisible or at least unreachable to all the 3d combatants while the 3d folk would remain visible and attackable. Because that final axis value was changed and the 4d creature still exists in the other 3 dimensions. Just like if you were in a cartoon and stepped out of the monitor to pinch the screen and destroy your enemy. They would be unable to affect the new dimension due to their nature, and you would likely disappear from view unless they could see through the 4th wall (strangely beautiful metaphor there), while you would still have traveled almost no physical distance.
At least that's how I'm understanding it.
Jace Gutierrez
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Leo Howard
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Samuel Parker
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Oliver Gray
Apparently these copies are missing all the fake ads and letters to the editor
Well, here's a pin-up
Owen Hughes
There is a storyby Kurt Vonnegut about someone who becomes a 4th dimensional being.
Essentially, it unhinges his mind, and he exists simultaneously throughout his entire existence, his ffocus on whatever moment he hapens to be in the only thing that gives him any idea of 'where or when', but since it is all simultaneous, he remembers everything that has and will happen to him, because he is experiencing all of it.
A creature that exists in the fourth dimension would actually be a multiplicity of such experiences; where it exists as single timeline of events, those events potentially include all possible actions. However, it could reduce or increase the possibility of any given action happening by making choices to move towards or away from specific outcomes. In other words, it would seem omniscient to anyone observing it, but in truth the results of every situation it is involved in come about because of choices on it's part, not through any action or reaction the PCs might have even if it may seem like they had an effect.
If player characters are the three dimensional creatures, the GM is the 4th dimensional one, placing them on railroads.
Joseph Stewart
That was really cool user, thanks for sharing. I love that cheesy old 60's style. The alliteration and the anti-communist stuff always gives me a good laugh.
Blake Morris
If you enjoyed TALES OF THE UNCANNY
I highly suggest you try the other five issues in the miniseries. Here are all six together in one rar:
mediafire.com
In 1993, at the height of the "grim and gritty chromed-up brooding antiheroes with giant guns" fad, Alan Moore put out a six-issue miniseries that roasted the nostalgia for the 1960s comics industry (because of all the shady practices that were swept under the rug when the editors and publishers who Moore had butted heads with in previous decades had cultivated their cults of personality in the letters columns by the 1980s). Moore went all the way and published them on shitty 1960s-quality newsprint paper instead of the high-gloss 80-weight paper that was available to him through Image Comics. It sucks that these scans don't have the letters or some of the ads, because that's where the real satire is.
It was supposed to climax in a double-sized one-shot that crossed over into the mainstream Image universe, but only a few of the flaky slacker artist/writer/creators of the various Image studios got on board, and none of them turned in their parts before the company imploded.
Charles James
>That makes more sense, but what comprises a "point" of intersection?
Math, I'd say. If you take a 3d space and put some figure in it, and then define a 2d plane, you are able to calculate at wich points the figure and the plane intersect.
>And how come we aren't able to interact with other dimensions in this way?
We can move in the direcctions left, right, up, down, forwad, backward. Thus we can navigate in our 3d slice. But to get to another slice we'd need to move ana or kata, which we can't. Just like a flatlander can only go left/right, forward/backward but not up/down. And a linelander can only go towards the endpoints of its line. That's why a flatlander living on one 2d plane can't interact with flatlander living on a 2d plane above or below.
The easiest way to think about a 4th spatial dimension is simply shifting all one d down imo. We are now flatlanders, our 3d space becomes a 2d plane for all intents and purposes and the 4th d becomes the 3rd d.
Elijah Anderson
This is horrifying.