What would you recomend as a good alternative to 3.PF?

>Savage Worlds
>5E

/thread.

5e. Basic rules and SRD are free, it's a lot more straight-forward rules-wise, and the classes are much better balanced without feeling same-y. Proficiency bonus and Advantage/Disadvantage alone are worth the price of admission.

Basic rules: dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/basicrules

SRD: 5esrd.com/

5e, Fantasy Age, Savage Worlds, 13th Age, Shadow of the Demon Lord

All of these scratch the character building and mechanical itch without descending into the autistic hellscape that Mathfinder does. Really they are still evolutions of the 3.P tradition (except Savage Worlds, thats kind of its own thing), its in their DNA but they are vastly cleaned up, streamlined and unobtuse. Really if you're looking for something that just emulates the 3.P experience but does it better (which from your post I'm assuming you are) you cant go wrong with a single one of those games although they have their own variances between them.

5e is most popular and you'll find the most games, while my personal favorites are Shadow of the Demon Lord for its class system and Fantasy Age for its hackability.

3.5 Ban Core Classes only allow the classes from the Mini Handbook, Dread Necro, Beguiler, Tome of Battle, and XPH.

It's essentially a different game

...

I'd say GURPS Dungeon Fantasy. It's not particularly complicated - certainly not as much as PF - and hits all the right notes for the genre.

Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition.

It's basically 3.5/PF but improved.

Fantasy Craft

Magic is primo for utility in FC, and it's not so great in combat. The spell's are also way more flexible to fluff, as the text is condensed into useful nuggets.
The primary book (Fantasy Craft) is ~400 pages long and contains all the rules that you would need (instead of having to be separated into three books, like TOG).
Fantasy Craft is a medium-to-heavy crunch game. Its subsystems are modularly designed, so that they can be discarded for your game. People who say it's too crunchy are looking at every subsystem at once, including the fortress building one, and balking when you only really need the skills and feats. Hell, magic is something that can just be turned off, no rebalancing of classes needed.

It really depends on what your problems with PF are.

This

Just like Pathfinder was 3.5 but improved?

No, it's actually improved and changed in many areas because they didn't need to keep backwards compatibility in mind.

Have fighters actually gained the ability to contribute outside of combat?

Alas, no, not really. They are even in skills with most classes (whatever little that counts) and casters had been reeled in a little, so it's at least a bit closer, however.

Dungeon World

To expand on this:

Don't like the magic item treadmill, caster supremacy, or pages upon pages of rules, but you still want a game about kicking in doors to kill monsters and take their stuff? D&D 5E can kind of do that. You want it to handle more than kicking in doors, killing, and looting? Savage Worlds.

Want a more balanced game with a focus on tactical combat but still retaining a lot of 3.PF's customization? 4E. Want that without most classes using the same chassis like they do in 4E? Legend d20.

Want 3.PF but crunchier and better thought-out? FantasyCraft.

Literally anything else.

Legend is an interesting look if only for the three-track class system.

Throw a dart at the wall, mang. It's practically the bottom of the barrel.

Legend is an excellent playtest. It is unfortunate it will never, ever be a finished product.

People have criticized my favorite game saying it is like 3.5 but I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing. It has a fun twist on some familiar mechanics and you can pretty easily port in stuff from 3.5 AND OSR games.

My top recommendations would be Warhammer Fantasy RP (2nd Edition) or the Iron Kingdoms RPG.

I would honestly suggest 5e, its a lot simpler, more streamlined, and balanced than pathfinder.

Fantasy Craft motherfucker.

5e or Fantasy Craft.

>D&D 5E is, in my opinion, a lot better
Different genre, user, 5e is nothing like 3.PF

Fantasy craft, dungeon world, anima bf

There is literally a thread before this that is titled "Alternative Fantasy Games".
OP is a cocksmoker that couldn't check the catalog before making his drivel.

Champions can jump really good

Your jump distance is your Str in feet, up to your speed, why can they jump good?

>All this 5e
You're comparing a dirty farmer game with a superheroes game. 5e is game of thrones level 3.PF is Marvel/DC level, they're nothing alike.

D&D 3.0 :^)

>D&D 5E is, in my opinion, a lot better.
it is better but not enough

>Shadow of the Demon Lord
>desiretoknowmoreintensifies.bmp
tell me about its system, user

Proficiency in the tool you want.

>he thinks a game with powerful vancian magic is low fantasy like game of thrones
>laughingkingsguard.jpg

The toughest, strongest warrior in 5e barely lifts 1 ton, my 10th level Barb in 3.PF lifted dozens (without magic items)

The agilest, fastest warrior in 5e barely jumps 30 ft, and runs at 60kmph. My 3.PF monk could move at mach 1 and leap kms (without magic items)

Etc

Yeah, wizards still can do a reality bending spell once in a while (instead of every 5 minutes in 3.PF) and then they're relegated at doing parlour tricks (compared to 3.PF) but martials are game of thrones tier in 5e

One is a superhero game in a medieval fantasy setting(even from 1st level if you want), 5e doesn't reach that even if you have 20th level

Btw, I'm not denying 5e is easier and way more balanced, I'm just saying they're different genres.

From what I've seen, 5e does 2 major things that change combat. I haven't played too much so there might be more important things that I haven't noticed.

Instead of getting +1s and +2 from everything, many things grant advantage, which gives you fewer things to keep track of, especially since advantage never stacks, so the playstyle of synergizing different types of bonuses (enhancement, circumstance, etc) is much less prevelant, and getting very high modifiers is less common.

The second is for caster balance (though casters are still pretty beefy). Caster can't stack buffs anymore (except with some things at higher levels). Spells like Fly are concentration based, which mean you need to concentrate, which means you can't keep 2 buffs up at a time (though you can still keep 1 and cast other spells).

Oh, and skills and other things were mushed into "proficiency bonus" which is the equivalent of maxing out some of your most important skills.

I have a player who strongly dislikes "roleplaying bait" mechanics like how bennies work in Savage Worlds. Is there a good way to adapt the system around that?

>You want it to handle more than kicking in doors, killing, and looting? Savage Worlds.
Can you elaborate on this? What are some examples of things Savage World facilitates better than eg. 5e? You seem to know your shit and I'm legitimately interested.

>5e doesn't reach that even if yoy have 20th level (unless you're a caster)

Oh gee wizz!

No, even if you're a caster you don't reach that level, you have 1 or 2 oportunities of bending reality in 5e per day, 3.PF has them almost at will

Srly, have the witch, by 6th level the witch has fly at will, sleep at will, hexes and curses at will, invisibility at will, etc, on top of that spells

They don't need a running start

woah! didn't get errata'd? that's broken

Yeah.

Tell him to cowboy up and deal with it. "Roleplaying bait" is such a shitty argument against them. Besides, SW isn't like Fate. The Bennies don't flow nearly as much as Fate points.

Alternatively, just don't use Bennies. Though the game becomes significantly more lethal without them.

I agree the powerlevels were taken down from 3.5 to 5 but as someone who has played plenty of 3.5, 5 felt pretty much the same but with training wheels on.

> implying women can fight in melee
> implying a woman could even move with that much armor on
> implying a woman would be even able to lift that shield
> implying a woman would wear those metal leggings and boots instead of some impractical combat-high-heels bullshit like real-world female boots
> implying a woman would not break down and instantly start crying the second they were attacked in melee
> implying a woman would not be the first target in combat so that she could be kidnapped and dragged away for rape
> implying a woman could handle the pain of parrying heavy blows with a sword
> implying a woman could even make a halfway decent slash with a sword to cut through skin
> implying a woman could even draw a longbow to shoot through armor
> implying a woman would even wear a helmet instead of leaving their pretty hair flowing free to be grabbed onto by ghouls and ettercaps
> implying it would not be easy as fuck to slash at that exposed thigh area, opening up her femoral artery, then just standing back and watching her stagger around as blood pours over her shiny leggings, and she grows less and less coordinated before falling into the grass, her eyes rolling up into her head, her corpse still fresh for whoever wants to take a turn

Female "warrior" fantasy art pisses me off so much.

I agree with this. While the power gap has been reduced somewhat by 5e, it's not nearly as reduced as many claim, and with a lot of downsides.

Hi Virt. Been awhile.

It feels the same in combats because monsters stats and your stats were tuned down and match, but try to lift a fucking house as a Barbarian and throw it to the Balor, you can't. Try to jump dozens of meters in the air and suplex a dragon, you can't. Try to move through the whole battlefield in 6 turns provoking tons of AoO (which triggers Karmic Strike) as you trip almost everybody just in one turn with your Monk. You can't because in 5e you aren't stronger enough, nor fast enough, etc.

It feels the same on a very basic level, but that's it. You wouldn't recommend 5e as alternative of M&M, you shouldn't do it as an alternative of 3.PF either (unless low level low magic as fuck).

Go get fucking counseling and stop turning other anons into your shrinks who have to listen to your baggage. Those mean women who bullied you shouldn't have this lingering emotional power over you.

The answer is 5e. There is no reason to play PF anymore, unless you like caster supremacy and playing anime kitsune lolis.

>Those mean women who bullied you
>Those mean women who thought you were overbearing and creepy

Fixed.

>it's another /r9k/ fedoras try to derail the thread episode

To me that just says "they nerfed martials even more to realistic* standards but wizards are onky half as powerful as the demi-gods they were in 3.5 so it's ok"

*based on the notion that a trained warrior who stands out above the common man can only make one accurate but weak attack per 7 seconds

i am still waiting for space 5e, shadowrun 5e and mutants and masterminds 5e (that games/setting with 5e rules)

Ah, damn, I was hoping for an alternate bennie handout process or something. I guess I'll keep looking for another game.

>Try to jump dozens of meters in the air and suplex a dragon, you can't.
But eagle totems can fly their move speed until the end of their turn while raging at 14th level

>at 14th level
That might as well be at 2000001st level in all the games I have been

40 ft aren't dozens of meters, user

Agreed

Fantasy Craft. 13th Age. D&D 5e. Pouring molten iron into your asshole to create the perfect dildo.