"TARA! Did you leave all these void wretches out?!" malifaux thread

How would you rank the power level of the new masters? With the exception of Asami, it seems like we're seeing the same sort of power creep that fucked with 1st ed.

>Nellie
Unlike any other Guild master, is really good at something they couldn't do before.

>Sandeep
Toolbox master with a variety of options. Not Colette or Ramos.

>Titania
Unlike any other Neverborn master, tough and control-ish. Relies heavily on 7SS minions

>Reva
Just kills people

>Parker
Crazy upgrade shifting mechanic, versatility over pure power.

>Zipp
Control and mobility over power

>Asami
10T summoner, hard to learn so bad players think she's bad.

That's a no, then.

>Unlike any other Guild master,
That's not true. She's pretty much a strictly better version of Lucius.

I used to hear people bitch about Colette, and Parker seems like Colette turned up to 11.

Relay? I'm actually quite interested in how Parker is so much like Colette. For me Colette is primarily about positioning her crew and giving actions with (0) interacts as a bonus.

Parker reminds me more of Shenlong with his ability to get the upgrade he needs at a given moment.

All three have their similarities as support masters.

Kit to kit, anything is better than Lucius. Notably, Nellie is more about positioning and debuffing enemies with Incite, Hot Off the Presses, Run From the Truth, and Propaganda. She can also make some of her crew Fast or get extra melee attacks. Lucius trades his AP for other model's AP, hopefully making them better (turning 1AP into a focused attack, for example)

Being better than the worst master in the game isn't creep, it's not making the same mistake twice.

Parker isn't as crazy durable as Colette and doesn't have Prompt.

>asami
>not terrible

Pick one.

That's what they said about Yan Lo, m8.

Maybe try stuff out before buying into memes.

I don't think she's bad. I think she just ends up working differently then other summoners.

Knowing that her summons are going to flicker out means it's generally a waste targeting them. But they come in at full health, and probably charge the turn they show up, so you might not be able to just ignore them.

Might be better to think of a lot of the summons as ranged attacks/terrain.

But even that's not right, since they can potentially interact and drop scheme markers like anything else.

She has a weak summoning arsenal and expensive, straightforward and ultimately mediocre support moves that don't lend themselves to particularly advanced strategies.

And her being so card intensive makes the Ml5 that her summons tend to come with all the harsher. Add to that her upgrades that do nothing but halfheartedly fix some of the issues they built into her core design and you've got yourself a master who above all is unreliable and inconsistent.

>>Sandeep
>Toolbox master with a variety of options. Not Colette or Ramos.
I think his niche is going to be fixed-master tournaments, from what I've seen so far.
Highly flexible, efficient toolbox, probably less prone to being teched against.
Any more-experienced Arcanists want to weigh in?

>Summoners

>You need two-three models to aggressively deal with just the summoner and whatever he spawns, just try not to lose yourself to solely dealing with him and have a unit dedicated to scheming.

I never seem to be making enough headway with the blob-killing unit to buy the Scheme-unit enough time/space/spare AP.
Mostly space is my problem - I play Colette, so I can piss markers all over the table, but the hard hitters are too expensive to be sufficiently numerous to stay ahead of the summoning, and can't keep the blob contained well enough.
Also, I only really have Joss and Cassandra for killing, and if I bury Cassandra into the blob I lose one of the fastest, schemiest models in the crew - Marker-Nimble-Marker has secured many a 5th turn win, I am loathe to lose that.

If you're having summoner specific woes maybe look for anti-summoner models. Taelor springs to mind.

To me (Colette player) Parker looks more like an intentional anti-Colette tech option than an Outcast version of her.
At least, teched specifically against the tendency to vomit markers all over the board.

Seems like a lot of people bought a lot of shares in "Asami trash tier" and are unwilling to let it sink.

The summons come in with Ml5, but they still usually have their two charge attacks served right to your face, with a side-serving of activation control, hand depletion and model jamming.

The summons might not hit the attacks too often, but they'll eat your Moderates anyway, and throw off your movement planning.
Not the best summoner, I'd agree, but not a shit master.

Fixed master isn't really any more of a relevant format than Enforcer Brawl. I love Sandeep, he's pretty much the sole reason I'm playing Arcanists, but Colette and Ramos are game-warpingly good. So I'm actually happy that Sandeep isn't as absurdly powerful as them.

WRT to summoning, bring models that attack their hand. December Acolytes fuck summoners so hard by forcing discards.

Also
>playing Colette
>not having enough AP to kill everything

Prompt, dude. Howard/Joss can clear a good chunk of real estate just from a turn of Prompting.

>One guy at LGS keep winning with his Resurectionist crew
>Tells everyone it's only matter of skill, and every single master in game is playable and good
>get his rekt by newbie who used to loose against him
>sudennly start bragging about masters power level, usefulness and unusefulness

If I weren't working there, I'd throw it in his face, but I think I wasn't only one who noticed that change

>>Tells everyone it's only matter of skill, and every single master in game is playable and good
The balance isn't perfect, but it's a lot better then it used to be in 1st.

Players like that are why I quit 40k.
>You can't win against my Triple Riptide List?
>Not my fault you're bad at strategy.

Sure, she might throw some engagement markers across the board, though again draining a lot of high cards that could've been used for actual attacks, but in the end she is very limited in options and keeps asking for more resources than the resulting actions are worth. And since all her support is so basic and straightforward there's a real lack of deep strategy to be found here that may well have a one turn timer depending on the state of the board. Whatever you try with her, ultimately she'll always be inconsistent.

What schemes or situations would you say she's better at than other TT masters?

Which masters did he play?

>Howard/Joss can clear a good chunk of real estate just from a turn of Prompting.
I find Joss can kill one model per turn three quarters of the time - sometimes two.
I often use my Prompts for Performer shenanigans, I find it much more useful against other crews to have performers luring and marker popping while still Manipulative 13.
Often Joss will get one to secure a kill, Cassandra will sometimes get one to Understudy-Prompt something further up the table, or a Performer will get one to do a Scheme thing, and the final AP is for a Dove or teleport.
Against summoners though, you're right, I'll have to start using Prompt to focus on killing.

I've only just got Howard, haven't had the chance to put him on the table yet.
Sexy damage spread though.
Dayumn Hank.

Thinking about it, maybe Joss isn't killing enough because I use him to tie up their big beaters, since he can consistently chew through them with decent min damage and defensive bullshit ignoring.

I usually manage to put him in the middle of a blob to tie up two or thee enemy models, and then chew them up over the next three or so turns, which I think massively improves the survivability of the rest of the (very fragile) crew.

Once I get Howard painted, I guess I'm going to have to start using him in a more careful precision single-target cruise-missile fashion?

Been reading through the rulebook and I think I got most stuff down now, but still two mayor questions.

Crew composition:
Are there any rules about taking more than one master? What about taking multiple henchmen or totems?

And triggers...sometimes the suit for a stat trigger is next to the DF stat, sometimes just with the ability. Sometimes the Sh/Ca value has a suit, sometimes it doesn't. What about the triggers with more then one suit? Do I have to get one trigger on the To hit flip and another on the damage flip to activate it? Or do I have to use a soulstone? So confused.

He have all resurectionist masters but Kirai, and he lost with Yan Lo.

Joss is for killing models with defensive bullshit, like Colette. Hank is just a general problem solver, 2-shotting the vast majority of mid-level minions and enforcers.

If you're up against summoners who do nothing but summon, use those Prompts to clear the field while Performers do their thing. Grab Acolytes to force discards and save your rams for Hank to further eat through that hand. Hank popping Imbued to double walk then flurry somebody important with a couple Decaptate triggers will completely shut down a summoner or net you an easy early kill.

>Crew composition
You only get one master, but otherwise can hire whatever you want to fit in to 50SS or whatever you're playing.

>Triggers
If the suit is next to the relevant stat, it is built in. Some triggers are automatic since they require a built-in suit. If a trigger requires 2 suits, you will generally either have one built-in or an ability that adds them, otherwise you will need to use a soulstone. The only flip that matters for triggers is the attack flip. Damage flip has nothing to do with triggers.

So... in case of Lady Justice, when she has to defend, she already has a ram and only needs to flip a mask to trigger her Riposte?
Or when she uses her Greatsword she always does +1 damage, going up to +3 if flipping a ram and using a soulstone?

Yup

Now I gotta ask...why even have the built-in triggers in the first place then? I guess there might be some gameplay elements 'm not yet aware of that make my question sound pointless, but right now...I dun get it.

But at least now I know.

There are abilities that remove built-in suits or that prevent declaring triggers. Additionally, in the case of Lady J, she has an upgrade that gives her another trigger for an additional attack. She has to choose between min damage 4 or min damage 3 and an extra attack.

Gotcha.

God, I hope my shit arrives this week...

There's stuff that shuts down triggers or removes suits.

NOw...what about Lilith's Wicked Vines?
They have a built-in Mask, but it doesn't even have a trigger? And I couldn't find an upgrade that would make use of that...

There are a couple modules like that. I think they were leaving an out if the wanted to put something in later or if they ever make playable avatars.

If it has a TN with a mask, then anything that removes the suit would make it a lot harder to cast.

any advice for a gremlin player?

So, if a TN has a suit, it is a requirement?
Basically, if she didn't have a Mask with her Ca stat, she'd have to flip a Mask?

Aim high.

Sure. Got a particular master in mind?

Correct, or she could use a soulstone to add the suit.

I have had trouble getting Brewmaster, & Wong to work.

And go git yer bro

What do your lists normally look like? Brewmaster and Wong probably suffer the most from not having great synergies in thier starting box.

Wong is already putting out area damage, what he really wants is stuff that can force an opponent to group up and you don't mind hitting with friendly fire. Burt is good for this as are cheap things like stuffed piglets.

Brew is a heavy support master. Handing out negative flips is much more potent then handing out positives. You want to use him to prove models you want dead. With the penalty they're easy pickings for stuff like Francois.

Don't forget to grab force multipliers like Lenny and slop haulers.

alright I think I had the wrong idea then usually I had Brewmaster try to tank things and keep people locked down but without any real back up

Wong I guess I just need to get better with positioning and picking out more useful additions to his crew

Brewmaster works pretty well as a tank, since he can be hard to hit and respawns if Wesley is alive, but he needs some heavies to do the actual killing.

What's the average soulstone number for a typical game?

I narrowed it down the crews to Lilith and Dreamer for my first crew, can I get some overview how these too play aside from melee beatstick that's mobile and melee beatstick that's tricky?

50.

Dreamer is a summoner master with good mobility and a potential shooty build.

Lilith is best as a close support caster rather than a melee beater. She has acess to models that do murder well enough on their own. She does diruption to help them out by isolating targets.

50 stones
I don't really use lilith so i'm not sure how she works. Dreamer can be run as either a close combat monster (using lord chompy bits to fuck shit up) or more commonly (atleast to me) as a summoner, his summoning is probably some of the best in the game.

Thanks.

What kind of models should one buy to fill out a Dreamer crew/have stuff to summon?

Fifty is the standard. Anything lower and summoning gets out of hand.

You can do a lot lower and still have balance if you stick to henchmen leaders and restrict summoning.

Dreamer summons nightmares, so you're looking at:
Lelu and Lilitu
Insidious Madness
Stitched Together

It is possible to summon a Teddy, but you'd need Mr. Tannen.

Dreamer, like most summoners, will be trickier to start with because you'll need more models than you can normally field. His summons, Teddy, Doppelganger, and Widow Weaver would be plenty to work with.

Lilith is easier. Her crew, doppelganger, waldgeists, and Nekima is a solid start.

thanks senpai

Okay, this game looks awesome. Any recommendations for Masters which are relatively balanced against one another (i.e. won't be a recurring curbstomp)? I want to drag my brother into this and don't want him to get disappointed by me winning constantly.

Starter box, go from there.

Starter box is not a bad start for many reasons, two tape measures, two fate decks, and crews that are very different but mostly balanced and can be expanded slowly if you want.

On the other hand you might be better off picking what factions you think you like and going from there in which case it would be better to list what faction/crew you think you want to start with and decide on what's balanced against it from there.

Tell us which ones you think look cool. That said a pair which look different and are straightforward to play wouldn't be a bad plan. You can get Lady Justice and Jakob Lynch for example. Both are pretty easy to learn, and neither is exceptionally strong against the other.

Any Nico players?
Thinking about starting him.

What do you use as the "core" of your lists? Cheap stuff like dogs and autopsies you can summon into other stuff? Stuff that makes corpses like Mortimer and the carrion emissary? Stuff with dismember?

Based Toshio best henchmen buffer!

Some people swear by dogs but I can't stand them. I actually recently got into an argument with another resser player in my meta where I asked why he took dogs when he was already running Morty with the shovel upgrade and corpse bloat.
"I get corpses on crows." He responded
"Crows that Nico wants so he can summon." I responded.
"What do you bring then?" He asked to which I responded "Almost anything else in ressers."

Like he tried telling me that they could do well in combat and I just kinda rolled my eyes.

I only take a dog if I have 2 SS to spare. Dogs are better at generating corpses by dying than digging.

Agreed

I'd it worth it for the ++ over just +?
I guess he could do summoning to if the opponent drops scrap.

Maybe it's a hold over from 1st when every gravedigger could pop up corpses?

Seems like a waste of crows to me too.

Would Nico, 4 autopsies, and six dogs make for an alright list? Or am I better off looking for more force multiplier units?

I imagine you hire mostly enforcers and henchmen maybe living minions as anything else you can summon into play if and when you need it. If I started I would like the new shield bearers with him.

Definitely fit at least one beater and/or buffer to help out. Toshio, Izamu the Armor, Carrion Emissary

I've run Canine Remains with Marcus and they are great fast scheme runners plus the Scent of Death and Hunting Dog abilities are good but their ability to make corpse markers is meh especially with Neco and needing an 8 of birds.

Well you have no good on demand corpse generation (aside from dogs dying after failing to do much).
Mortimer can do it with any 9+ since the suit is built in. Dogs will just waste your best cards.

Nico already is a force multiplier. Are you playing at 50SS? I do like Toshiro with Nico, even more than I do with Yan-Lo if you want more force multipliers. Punk Zombies can get up to +++ on attacks with them.

I liked the shield bearers at first to. But I'm not sure. They never get undead for Nico's boost. And for a soulstone more you could grab Rafkin or the forgotten Marshall for units that boost other minions damage.

>after failing to do much).
I would have thought they'd do pretty well with thier stacking debuffs and getting 1 ap charges.

If you had you only had stones for Toshio or Carrion emissary, who do you pick?

I've played against Toshiro in 10T and he is a beast, you can probably leave his summoning upgrade at home and focus on his use as a support piece to buff your minions and be a pain to kill with anything that has a low minimum damage.

Have not seen Carrion Emissary played but on demand blocking terrain is always great and getting a Mindless Zombie out of the deal is even better.

I think you would get more mileage out of Toshiro most games.

Different roles really.

Toshiro supports all your minions, making them more effective, which adds up with Nico when all the stars align turning a regular Punk Zombie into a meat grinder. He's pretty sturdy and can do some damage if needed too. Carrion does lots of cool stuff, including some summoning, but provides support through control rather than buffs.

I like Toshiro more with Nico as a Force multiplier, but only proxied Carrion, who tends to be a huge target that people want to take out sooner rather than later.

Any kind anons out there who feel like posting Sandeep's upgrades?

how do I git gud at this game besides just playing a lot?

played 7 games, won once barely. I don't feel like I know what the fuck I'm doing.

If you want to do it without playing then why play?

7 games is barely scratching the surface. Just play more and try to think about that you did wrong each time. If your opponents aren't shit heads they will likely be more than happy to run you through ideas to improve.

What masters do you play?

I think the biggest trap new players fall into is forgetting about their schemes and getting sucked into the opponent's tempo trying to counter what they challenge you with without having your own goals planned and worked towards.

Play a lot, read a lot, ask a lot of questions

I tried out the terracotta warrior and Thrall with Lucius. He's back, boys.

This. It's possible to get tabled and still win by a large margin, it all depends on strategy/schemes.

Which crew is most fun to paint and assemble, and most exemplary of Malifaux's unique style and setting?

I'm partial to Lady J's crew. Death Marshals are what got me into the game.

>most fun to paint
hard to say, gorillions of beautiful and unique models
>and assemble
worst thing in wyrd models, they are mostly terribad to assemble, lots of tiny parts (I mean 7 parts for zombie chiuaua?) and sometimes require serious gap filling
>most exemplary of Malifaux's unique style and setting
I'd say Leveticus - includes regular dude, hot babe with short hair, few more babes and shits straight form your worst nightmares. All things that comes to my mind when I say mallifaux.

Carrion gives the same aura buff Toshio does, just can't hand out fast.

Also only 4 inch instead of 6.

Story time?

All of them are a bitch to assemble. Painting depends on what you like to paint. Gremlins were a lot if fun to paint. But big stompy robots would be fun to.

Seamus and the belles are probably the most iconic in my mind.

I love the look of these Cloud Strife wannabes I'm trying to justify a reason to myself to chuck them into my Kirai crew who's the only Resser I have.

Maybe I'll add a pistol to their belts and run them as Guild Guards instead.

Once they become spirits, they should synergize pretty well.

How comes Rusty Alice can be set up in Ramos crew? I just read that on pullmyfinger but can't find any rule allowing this.

Agreed, first turn have Kirai use a soulstone as part of her summoning to give them fast and run them up the board. If your opponent kills them they come back as spirits and make great teleport targets to sling shot the likes of Izamu into their face.

They are also not bad as summoning anchors as they get all of their killed benefits if they die form the damage.

Rusty has mercenary.

Only thing I can think of is Levi taking the model from a Ramos crew. There is no way to get Alice outside of Outcasts.

Maybe it's a hold over from first ed?

Is that in the FAQ/Errata? Because I'm looking at book two and she does not.

She was in 1st edition, she's not anymore

My mistake. I'm just getting back in after years off.

So I'm just starting out with this game and so far I own the Thunder box and an Oiran box. Do you guys have any recommendations of other purchases for Ten Thunder? Also is there a place with a proper gallery for the models? The Wyrd site is terribad

>Turf War against Dreamer
>Swapped Surprisingly Loyal for Secret Assets turn 1
>Free soulstones for all the 6s or fewer that were previously useless
>Focused Riflemen dropped Teddy and Lilitu from Issue Command spam
>Thrall took Teddy to the face twice, finally died on the last attack
>Dashel summoned a guard to arrest Teddy before the Rifleman dropped him
>Chompy comes in and tears through my Guild Guard
>Dashel summons more to arrest the Tyrant
>Guild Guard only around to not die and Exhaust enemies
>Won game thanks to guns and bodies clogging up the table
>tfw you can't see mfw because I'm wearing a mask

If looking at seperate models; the Ten Thunder Brothers, the Katanaka Snipers or maybe the Samurai and an 8 or 9 SS enforcer or henchman.

As for other crewboxes; Shenlong's box helps a lot with Yu being great with Misaki and Shenlong being good at scheming. McCabe's also good at scheming, though his box doesn't have Yu, so that's a bit of a minus.

Congrats. Sounds like he got a much needed boost which is great, hrs one if my favorite masters style wise. I just picked up his metal box.