So, I'm really fucking confused. We've hit level 9, but does this mean all the kobolds...

What is at risk? What are the stakes?

Throwing many weak monsters to compensate for the level disparity doesn't work, sadly, because there's not only a gap in damage output and hit points - it's also in attack bonuses, AC, saves, DC of spells and so on. So, the little fuckers would not only be one-shotted by everything the PCs will throw at them (and they'll throw lots of things, including AOE things and cleaving things), but they will never make a save, never cause any nasty effects because the PCs will effortlessly ace all the saves, and will probably never hit on anything but natural 20's. Having ten or ten hundreds of them would change nothing, except how long the ensuing, boring fight will be.

What a terrible system.

Two options:
1. Picture related
2. You have such a reputation that they go a long way AVOIDING you.

b-b-but muh d'n'd!

Y-You're just a filthy casual he's too stewpid to understand it.

> What a terrible system
Agreed. 4th edition, in all its horror, at least had the option to bring lesser monsters back as minions.

Die in 1 shot, does little damage compared to level-appropriate monster, but still reasonably annoying.

That's a problem with the GM. You should still encounter them, but they flee and leave it to their number that have class levels to fight you. Or they just don't fight you and try and sell you things.

That does sound better.

>They try and sell you things
>Orcs jump out of hiding ready to reave and rape, come face to face with the party
>Try to spin their botched ambush as a "surprise flash sale" on "exotic local wares."

5TH EDITION
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I do my fare share of 5e shilling, but I don't think it can really do anything about an annoying DM's playstyle

>What is happening?
You're playing a game that has horrible level-scaling, and your DM doesn't want to waste your time with enemies that you would effortlessly piss on.

At the same time, I try running a game with encounters that make sense to the environment and don't auto-scale to the party's level and I get shit like
>I'm too scared to fight the bandits, they might be tough
>we can't go in the dungeon it's too dangerous
>4 kobolds? And they appear to be standing guard?! Holy moly how can our meagre party of 6 superior-in-every-possible-way combatants, several of whom get multiple attacks, ever hope to compete! They might call for help from the other kobolds that also drop like flies the moment we look at them funny!

It's like, holy shit, are you going to play the game or not? If auto-scaling to level is the kind of coddling that it takes to get you guys out of the starting town, then I can't blame your GM for doing it!

There are no stakes. There never were.

So Pathfinder does have a way to make this sort of work. The way they do it is many creatures can form a swarm that is higher CR. For instance angry townsfolk.

A bunch of monkeys, who are collectively CR 1/3 can form a CR 2 swarm. Commoners can form a swarm as an angry mob.

You can also give creatures class levels and/or templates, so the same 6 man Orc band can be threatening all throughout the campaign, letting the enemies remain around the same level as the party.

Then... I SHALL PLACE THE WHOLE WORLD AT STAKE!

>The Kobolds offer the party a quest to liberate them from their dragon overlords.
>The party are now kings of koboldstan.

Once had the elven fighter decapitate the goblin leader.
There was a beat, then the goblins start chanting
>all hail chieftain big axe skull splitter

And then they showed us the way though their warrens to the other side.

5e fixes it.

You haven't switched to 5e yet and you should. It's soooooo much nicer watching a group go from "bandits will instant-kill you" to "bandits are a tough fight" to "bandits are an easy fight" to "bandits open by asking for parlay" to "let's go find something that pays better than bandit duty" all with the same two stat blocks, a CR2 "Captain" and a CR1/8 "grunt."

No bullshit I'm seriously in love with how 5e manages to keep the whole damn book viable for so long.

Keep working on your writing and you too can shit-up a DC comics movie!

this isn't so much of an issue in 5e thanks to bounded accuracy

VERY WELL.

It depends on what esition you're playing. If it's 5e, then yeah, ordinary goblins and kobolds can be a significant part of an encounter even at high levels. If it's 4e or 3.pf, then anything more than three or four levels below you is just going to be a waste of everyone's time.

Sorry I'm new to 5e, how did they fix that exactly?

Everyone's numbers grow so slowly that you never hit a point where one guy's maximum roll is too small to hit someone else's worst stat, so a level 20 fighter is still in 'swinging range' of a level 1 orc.

They're still there, it's just that they aren't a challenge. Same way you don't make your characters roll strength to open an average door. Killing those goblins was never in doubt, no need to roll.

Number crunch, a lot of the enemies/players have reasonable AC/damage instead of just bloating.

have you tried not playing DnD?
and if you are playing DnD, just remember a lvl 1 monster can still toss a lvl 900 improvised explosive device
t. Iraq

...

The orcs and kobolds should also bring heavie weaponry to the fight. Elaborate trap, hideous beasts, siege weaponry. If they are dedicated to killing the players they will find the tools to get the job done.

welcome to the wonderful world of D&D and direct derivatives

>the filename isn't confusednegrolookingatground
shit/10

I thought video game mentality meant level locked regions and/or scaling enemies, so that lvl 1 rat levels with you

>3e problems
>4e problems
I didn't believe them, but you actually CAN tell what edition they're playing even when they're not using rule specifics just by listening to what they believe was "standard" and "is always true".

That's really quite remarkable.

It can and it can't. If the GM is *trying* to play things that way the system certainly won't stop them. But if the GM doesn't care for it either some systems do a better job than others making it un-necessary. D&D makes it pretty well un-necessary.

5E is nonetheless outdated, starting with Hit Points and Armor Class.

That's Elder Scrolls mentality. Other user was referring to Final Fantasy mentality.

Not all videogames have levels locked.

And regarding the second point, it's the same difference: your character levels, becomes more powerful and everything... and even if he does become more powerful, all the enemies grow aswell and it makes everything meaningless.

If you face a lvl 5 rat or a troll, it does not make any difference: the thing is that before you fought level 1 rats and goblins and now you never encounter those monsters anymore: only stronger types/versions/monsters.

>Dear Journal,

>HUUUUUUUUAGGH!

what is this meme? did it just pop up overnight or something?

This is actually a lot more fun than it sounds, though, because it gets you off the constant merry-go-round of the world leveling up when you do. Gaining a level means becoming better at fighting bandits, not just upgrading to a slightly tougher brand of bandit.

Nah that's pretentious drivel

I just figured creatures that you've out levelled sort of were intimidated by your powerful presence and therefore nope'd whenever they get an inkling of a whim of where you'd be

youtube.com/watch?v=k-J3nJerAyQ

HE WHO IS BEGUN, TIGTONE

>2. You have such a reputation that they go a long way AVOIDING you.
This is how I do it, highwaymen and thugs tell stories about well known heroes around the campfire and as word grows they learn specific people to avoid. When they venture particularly far their first few encounters may be simple bandits or orcs but those people will quickly learn not to fuck with them.

Players seem to like it when some unfortunate highwaymen decide to attack them at night because they haven't heard about them yet. Seem to enjoy slaughtering the mostly helpless enemies sometimes just doing shit to scare the shit out of them (druid transforms into giant spider, barbarian tries to grapple people and go Gregor Clegane on their heads).

This.

Violent encounters should always be dangerous, even against inferior opponents.

Spearmen should not be a threat to tanks.

>Wait in hiding-spot
>Climb on tank
>Jab spear through viewports
>yfw this was considered a valid, albeit desperate tactic in 1942

adamantine spears will tear through them like paper

didn't that involve putting your grenade at the tip of your spearrifle then shooting?

That's not an apt comparison to the scenarios being described in this thread. A band of men armed with spears should always be dangerous for another band of men armed with spears, even if they are still extremely mismatched in their abilities.

Also, tanks vs. spearmen doesn't just represent MBT's fighting spearmen out in an open field in a set-piece battle, but can also involve guerrilla operations against support networks. The tanks are useless without gas, or in extremely rugged terrain. If the "tank" unit is already severely depleted, then it's not inconceivable that they could lose.

Honestly not as big of a problem as people pretend. SWAT teams do not hand out speeding tickets because they have bigger fish to fry. Same goes for adventurers. If you are in the mountains at level 9, it's because there's something stronger than goblins that needs killing there.

Simpsons did it

and by simpsons I mean FFX

See .

Ok, but that's still a brand new threat that didn't show up beforehand. The problem OP complained about is that as soon as you hit the tank stage the normal spearmen either get replaced by tanks or spearmen with adamantine weapons.

Except mid to high level D&D characters are literally superhuman. Fighters can get dunked in magma, wizards can call down lightning, and clerics can raise the dead. It's like saying an ordinary thug should be a threat to Superman.

Jesus Christ, what did I just watch and why have I never seen it until now.

Look up 'Tucker's Kobolds'. Sure, you won't find these on the road, but they may inspire something.

Eh, this doesn't seem actually that interesting.

A stack block isn't so interesting that I want to fight it 10 times thru a campaign.

Is actually not entirely true. The bandits don't get any to hit boosts, and a fighter with a shield+full plate+defensive style is already 21 AC. Add a single +1 from anywhere (magic shield, armor, protections ring, buff) And the bandits now only hit s on a 20.

What I'm trying to say is, low level enemies are a joke in 5e the moment you max out your AC, up until the point you start using horde rules or throw enough of them that they are guaranteed to get a few 20s.

>The bandits don't get any to hit boosts*
* as you level up

They are stuck at +3. Goblins have like +5 I think?

Point is, most low level enemies simply never hit you.

>kobolds hiding on a ledge above throws nets onto the players while others swarm the entangled PCS
>all but one attacking an unentangled pc does aid another.
>two always try to remain out of sight and record the fight and the PCs' tactics and skedaddle when the fight inevitably goes south for them to prepare for the next ambush.
>party goes to sleep after their 8 hour work day while still in the caves
>kobolds sneak past the sentries and ambush them in the middle of the night
>or just take gear and start running away.

>What's Leomund's tiny hut?

>The aggravating part is that DM guidebook encourages exactly that, not to mention the random encounter tables.
This is why GMs should take advice from other GMs and not follow rulebooks, random tables and stuff blindly, without thinking.

They should have some common sense and, depending on the feedback of their group, bend the game so that it becomes more fun for the whole group.

This is also why fudging dice is used more than open rolling, for -Good- GMs.

>Something the mage had better start preparing.

>then he realizes it's a ritual and he doesn't need to

Unless we aren't playing 5e or by "preparing" you mean the ritual cast time.

>unreleased footage of Deathstalker IX

I assumed the person talking about how Kobolds could never be a threat was playing 3.x
Also another strategy, get the players drunk and encourage silliness.

Well, it's a moot point because in both 3rd and 5th the whole plan fails at "kobolds hiding out on a ledge without being discovered by the party", past about level 3.

I love making enemies smarter to deal with leveling players
>goblins now have goblin tek-no-la-gee
im talking hang gliders, bombs, and when shit gets serious?
>GOBLIN POWERED MECHA IS GO!
Those orcs?
>united under the war banner of war chief warkill warbig McRapetrain
who has introduced a high protein diet and has all the orcs lifting for massive gains
>u jelly str 5 wizard?
>massive buff orcs, huge str and con im talking
for bonus points have em trying to poach the PC's women
>hey elf-lady!
>wanna see what a *REAL* male looks like?
>(flexing sounds)

Kobolds?
I aint got shit for them
>CAUSE THEY ALREADY STOLE IT
>HOLY FUCK EVER SINCE THEY UNEARTHED THE LEGENDARY SKULL OF THE MASTER THIEF
>THEY EVEN STEAL YOUR PC'S FOOD FROM OFF THEIR PLATE AS THEY EAT
taunting notes in poor common optional

You don't need new types of foes always.
Just turn the "awesome" knob up for your mooks

I mean, one game im running now had a bunch of goblins with a flamethrower and costume pretending to be a dragon
>party was shitting themselves for all of 2 rounds before they noticed it wasn't moving right
>and sounded like a goblin
>and was fairly unconvincing once they stopped going OMG DRAGON and looked
ended up just walking around it for a great "ignore the goblins behind the costume" moment.

Hell they were keking so hard they missed the big plot clue drop.
That might've saved Prince Frederick Quicksilver and his band of travellers
>the act formerly known as "Princes"

what edition?
I cut my teeth on adnd2e and have yet to touch newer, and that was "in the wild, you may run into elder treant and be royally fucked (if you are rude). so be careful. its the wilderness for a reason"

I'm so glad my GM is not as autistic as you.

lol so random, le freddy mercury so epic!!111

Did you actually ask the DM about this or are you bitching on Veeky Forums for no reason other than to feed your inflated ego.

>Players looking up
If you need to, have others act as bait, try to get the players to chase after some of the annoying little shits.

10/10 keks
would play again lol
>YFW the orcs make more money by flogging "local handicrafts" at prices that are HIGHWAY ROBBERY

What I'm saying is that the most likely outcome is that the kobolds get surprised by the party, who used their flying and either invisible, or mundane looking familiar to scout.

>kobolds start the ambush by collapsing the tunnel the party was kipping in
>follow it up by releasing the bulletes
>follow up the follow up by diverting the lake to drown anything left
>excavate and loot one day later

If you're turning invisible and flying everywhere, then maybe there's a reason you don't run into low level enemies anymore.

A warlock can have a flying invisible imp as a scout at level 3 in 5e. Even worse, if it's somehow discovered, it can fuck off to a pocket dimension and return to report.

I never cared much from low levels in 3.5, especially casters, but they also all have familiars, which are mundane things like bats and crows and spiders. It's very unlikely the kobolds would attack those on sight (although, they may wisen up to it later I guess, but the ambush is ruined either way).

eh it was their first game, so i figured id throw in an obvious trope so they could "get" it
so far they are earning a nice commission hiding his "hobbies" to keep his marriage prospects up.
Besides, this group in particular?
they love that shit, so thats all that matters.
Not gonna make it grimdark mcsuperedge if they want something light hearted and cliche as fck

Fantasy Craft attempts to solve this by having a "Threat Level" mechanic, where enemies have a base set of statistics, and the Threat Level of the fight the GM chooses scales those numbers up and down. The base statistics still matter, so the Threat Level 1 Ancient Dragon will still be a ruinously difficult fight that will 99/100 eat a starting level 1 party alive, and the Threat Level 20 Kobolds won't be a great challenge to the level 20 party, but it keeps the numbers at a spot where you don't magically just become so good that even the muscle-hulk in platemail you call your fighter can still get hit by Kobolds who rolled well.

The base statistics go from 1 to 10, and are Resilience, Competence, Initiative, Attack, Health, and Defense.

Dumb Kobold has all those at 1, and at threat level 1 has 5 hp, +2 init, 12 AC, etc, and at threat level 20 those bump up to 100 HP, +8 init, 18 AC, etc.

Meanwhile Big Dragon has those at 10, and at TL1 is 100 hp, +6 init, 16 AC, and 1000 HP, +35 init, 45 AC, etc at TL 20.

Base Statistics, combined with natural attacks, skills, special qualities, etc, all contribute to the base EXP value of a monster, and get scaled up for the threat level you fought them at.

S'one way of being able to "fight any monster in the book at any level" but still have a huge variance in difficult at any threat level from base statistics. The Kobolds only worth 10 EXP at base, but the Dragon was built with 120 exp worth of stuff.

That probably at least takes an invocation or two, not to mention using a Pact of the Chain. At that point, I'd say let them have a familiar and the occasional drop on the bad guys.

However, an enemy group that's expecting to fight intruders isn't going to be surprised by the party if they're already expecting a fight. So, unless your flying invisible imp can also somehow convince the ambush that the party they're lying in wait for isn't there, they probably won't be surprised unless the party somehow manages to get behind them -- which, if they could do, means it probably wasn't a very good ambush anyway.

>>not writing an encounter where twenty orcs support a pair of ogre mages with great bows
>Not having a tribe of 100 kobolds harass the party as they tabla at the whim of a red dragon, disrupting sleep so they're not at full strength as they travel and stealing tons of gold

It's like you don't even want to gm

>not to mention using a Pact of the Chain

That's the only requirement, Imp can fly and turn invisible already.

It's actually also quite likely to oneshot kobolds IIRC, having that damage poison on his stinger.

> they probably won't be surprised

The surprise comes when instead of getting the drop on the wizard, they eat a spell to the face. Unless they are somehow ambushing from an underground bunker I guess.

This is why 4e did what it did.

A heroic tier soldier can easily end up a paragon-tier minion. It's dropped in capabilities without becoming a non-factor.

>Unless they are somehow ambushing from an underground bunker I guess.
Yes, well, kobolds DO live underground. It's not exactly an out-there scenario for them to be ambushing from their homes and fortresses, which were already underground in the first place.
>That's the only requirement, Imp can fly and turn invisible already.
Oh, shit. I knew I should have checked that. That's pretty good! Pact of the Blade looks even worse now, man.
>The surprise comes when instead of getting the drop on the wizard, they eat a spell to the face.
The kobolds not expecting the wizard to shoot is slightly different from the party getting a surprise round on them. 5e RAW says that "any character or monster that doesn't notice a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter," as well as establishing that the DM adjudicates surprise. Personally, I would rule that an ambush lying in wait for a threat is expecting a threat to show up, because that's the whole point of laying an ambush in the first place. Therefore, I would not give the players an entire surprise round just for knowing the ambush is there: by finding the ambush first, they have negated their enemies' surprise round instead. If nobody tries to be stealthy, they automatically notice each other, and there's no surprise round.

How does one turn to shit what was already shit?

I believe user meant something more like this when they said surprise:
>Warlock sends invisible familiar to search the cavern
>finds kobolds waiting in the next area and informs the party
>party moves up to the mouth of next area, casts sleep/fireball/etc before entering
>Kobolds pass out/burn to a crisp/etc before getting to spring their trap