/wmh/ Warmachine and Hordes General - Skorne is Shit Tier Edition

Rangers, UA, deathstalkers. Any strider with a bow is good.

CRYX GOT WHAT IT DESERVED. REMOVE SKELTAL REMOVE SKELTAL SKELTAL YOU ARE THE CRYX IDIOT YUO ARE THE CRYX SMELL SHAERDE INVASION BEST DAY OF LIFE TORUK WE WILL GET YOU

It never stopped samurais.

if the one of the swords is short then it's no real problem.

Should we just rename these threads to Skorne Bitching General?

It should be Errata When General.

Seriously, when the fuck is the errata supposed to be coming? this thing need a balance patch so fucking badly.

The need to errata Linebreaker out of the game.

It looks cool.

Seriously. I've stopped coming to theses thread since I have to swim through a river if Skorne tears every single time.

But I play Skorne and think they're decent

What is there to talk about currently? The WTC lists that are exactly what everyone was expecting? The lame insiders that fail to distract from the broken as fuck game? There is nothing. So only whining remains.

Hoksune has its basis in suffering and mortification of the body. If you're not suffering, you're Skorning it wrong.

Those who want instant gratification should go play "oh hey look at my new electric toaster" Cygnar. Skorne make toast by holding the bread directly over the fire... with their bare hands.

Again with this crap. Nobody wants instant gratification. People who want that don't play wargames. We want a fair chance.

>We want a fair chance.
You think so? The expectation of fairness is a weakness that can be exploited. Persevering and succeeding in spite of massive disadvantages... that's how you get Skorne Strong. =)

Bit of tongue-in-cheek there, but the truth is you gain nothing by getting down about the state of the faction. Look at it as a gift. Eventually, Skorne will get erratas or releases that help. In the meantime, learning to win with a gimped faction will make you a better player. When those changes do come, you'll be better able to make use of them with all the skills you picked up fighting nothing but uphill battles for months or years.

Hey, hey! I've been playing WarmaHordes for

>In the meantime, learning to win with a gimped faction will make you a better player.
Just as much as learning to win with a real faction. Exept:
1) The ceiling to reach is much higher
2) It's not frustrating

And honestly when a hobby becomes frustrating there is something very wrong with it.

>Eventually, Skorne will get erratas or releases that help.
And when is that? Mk4 in 2020? PP have no idea what the hell they are doing. Mk3 Skorne was ample proof of that.

How many Mechanithralls would you say is enough?

0

>Seriously, when the fuck is the errata supposed to be coming?
I believe the current sheduel is every 6 months we get a "dynamic update errata."

Last update was in July, so I assume the next one will be in January.

I agree that there are some things that need fixing, but it kills be me to say that it would probably be best if we waited to see how theme forces play out. No point in asking for something to be buffed now if doing so would make it broken in a theme list.

What the fuck.
I've been away from WMHG for a few weeks, is this some new EPIC MEME xD or what's happening.

Also, how fucked is MKIII really? There seemed to be some small initial interest, but now it's died off. I also here instead of releasing theme forces in one book they're releasing each theme force as an entire separate book and IN ADDITION to that instead of doing faction books like they did at the beginning MKII they will be releasing them like GW codices where each faction gets updated one at a time.

Is this true, or is it all bullshit? Has PP finally lived long enough to see itself become the villain?

First Command book is in december, and it looks like only Trollbloods is coming out then.

>Has PP finally lived long enough to see itself become the villain?
Depends on how bad the books are really.

The current plan is to release command books which cover all of the warlocks and basic units and jacks/beasts for the faction. These may or may not contain some theme forces. These are mostly for art andore about the faction and will contain a few new releases.

Trolls are first and their command book drops in December. New releases known so far are Madrak3, Horgle2, and the Sea King.

After command books they'll release themeforce books which will cover a specific theme for the faction. For example the King Makers Army would be one, Llaelese Resistance another. These will cover more art and lore and have new releases.

The idea here is that they can produce new stuff for factions whenever they want instead of being forced to produce stuff for everyone for a big anthology book. New releases are supposed to be out within a month or so of the book release and we can see that with the new stuff for Trolls.

Whether or not any of this is going great to work is a mystery. It could be awesome or it could totally suck

So we're looking at a library of different books for each faction, then?

This kinda seems like the 40k problem. Codex longevity and snowflake books.

Well, at the very least you could have the goddamned common courtesy to say how much PP-approved fun you've been having at our expense.

Meh? It's not a bad release plan. You can focus on specific factions and release what factions need instead of having to do simultaneous releases.

Just because GW did it doesn't mean it's a bad idea. It can actually work if you put the time into it. You'll theoretically have less junk releases and stuff will be out shortly after the book drops instead of being in production for two years.

I have pretty about zero faith in PP right now though so I guess we'll see.

The 40k problem is power creep, not their release schedule. That said, I'm not a fan of the "supplements everywhere" approach regardless of parent product.

In the AMA, Soles outright said he thinks the rhinidon is good and that he likes it. With that sort of reality-bending madness at the helm, how could we possibly stay positive?

That more of a "keep Soles away from the mic" situation.

Maybe there's a theme list that it's really good in? Who knows

Just to make sure, plastic glue doesn't work with the Battlegroup casters, right?

What was the rationale behind toning down the Skorne warbeasts?

Did Titans hit too hard or something?

Also, what does having the Agonizer become a lesser Warbeast change as far as Fury management goes?

Skorne was a mid tier faction last edition and jothing they nerfed really needed it except for maybe like the molik missile (which is now the Imperatus missile with Elara2) they nerfed shit that nobody won tournaments with, i was absolutely strange.

I remember there being mention of something about removing "auto includes" from lists.

I guess apparently the Bronzeback, Gladiator and the rest were showing up in too many lists for PP's liking.

Still, I'm surprised they didn't keep the Siege Animantarax like they had it.

I'm not even sure what it's supposed to be doing now.

The problem is faction vision.

I'm mk2, Skorne developed a super alpha "apply Bronzrback, win game" tactic pretty much up until the end.

It was a hard tactic to pull off despite its simplicity, but when it worked it worked hardcore.

The issue was that they don't want Skorne to be an alpha faction, they want them to be a counter punch faction that benefits from their opponent killing their army. So they needed a lot of their alpha abilities along with most of their range game to try and bring focus back to that tactic.

The main issue with that is the counter punch factions are an absolute bitch to balance, and in the process they robbed Skorne of most of their good shit.

Essentially, they don't want Skorne to have elite infantry or super powerful beasts. They want a faction that has generally bleh models that gets more powerful when your opponent starts killing shit so you can come back hard on attrition.

I'm on my phone so I can't discuss all the problems with this strategy, but there's a few big ones.

Dark eldar veterans says otherwise.

SA is the melee beast they wanted it to be. Yea, it lost its range game, and I do think it's worse than the gun platform it was, but I don't think it's bad anymore.

Changing it to spd on tokens solved the issue of getting weaker as it swung, and the spd boosts gives it a pretty respectable threat. It hits roughly as hard as a heavy, with no fury issues and much higher threat.

PP releases aren't and have never been tied to book releases. The command books aren't going to affect the model release schedule at all

Too bad that gladiators are still goddamn auto includes

If you halved the cost of the Rhinodon, it would still not get taken.

Maybe with xerxis 2 if that was the case?

A 5-6 point heavy? Yea it would, if for no other reason than to hold a zone

Direct Souls ruling landed

>Soul Taker allows a model to gain souls due to the first sentence of the ability. When Direct Spirits is used, you can transfer the soul to any model capable of gaining soul tokens.

>A model can gain souls it couldn't collect normally due to Direct Spirits. Soul Taker has its own specific restrictions on souls it can gather normally. Direct Spirits allows additional souls with its ability.

Direct Spirits lets you put a soul on any model with the Soul Taker ability you wish when a friendly faction living warrior is destroyed in zaal's control area. This includes bypassing Reclaim's "destroyed by enemy attack" requirement for Zaal2 because Direct Spirits ignores eligibility.

Easy there kid. Who do you think you are? Khador?

>Essentially, they don't want Skorne to have elite infantry or super powerful beasts.

I thought that's what they were supposed to be in the lore given they're functionally the closest thing Hordes has to an Iron Kingdom?

They even describe Titans as being thundering hulks of sinew and muscle capable of crumpling lesser beasts and warjacks in the lore don't they?

> Rhinodon

How do you even make that viable as it is now without changing the stats?

I mean like, then why have other factions with auto includes? (Menoth and the choir, trolls and the krielstone, ret and arcanists, etc.) It just seems so arbitrary.

Anything can become stupidly, brokenly, good if it's cheap enough. Except possibly Nayl.

I assumed we were talking about the constant flow of small supplements rather than the decade-long waits for a faction update. I got my fill of that playing Dark Eldar and fucking Bretonnia.

>Too bad that gladiators are still goddamn auto includes

I think the new consensus in MK3 is to have at least two in your battlegroup now isn't it?

They tried to deal with that as well.

Choir took a pretty decent nerf

>let's balance circle
>let's nerf things nobody took
>and buff the warp wolves and the warlocks everyone already took
>but we slightly nerfed teleporting so it's k

No one took Wurmwood, and eKrueger took several indirect nerfs.

But yea, that is how it feels. I don't think mk3 is worse than mk2. But it doesn't feel better either

The mechanics of mk3 are better, the balance is worse.

While it is nice to see Trolls showing up more so in a competitive scene, its because Madrak is broken and not so much the rest of it. Truthfully I wish Madrak was a little less so the diversity of the Caster's I get as a troll player might pop up. But I digress.

Exactly. It only works with hard plastic miniatures. And you should never use it anyways.

I wouldn't even say it's worse. We haven't seen anything that is straight meta destroying, just a lot of meta bending shit, same as elylith and egaspy

Truth to tell, the Skorne player base could dry up like a drained swamp and MK3 would still be a good game.

Not two but one is mandatory.

Honestly, except for gunnbjorn and e grissel troll warlocks didn't require much change. Troll internal balance was pretty good in terms of warlocks.

Not the case anymore.

>How do you even make that viable as it is now
Well you could-
>without changing the stats?
Never mind.

Hey, if you gave me 5 points for including Nayl I'd at least consider him a toss up.

With the exception of a couple casters Troll warlocks maintain they're aggressively average status. If anything the shitty part about Trolls now is their beasts and infantry. It's either one of the few amazing things or it's hot garbage.

>And it's 0 too many!

Why not? Do you often disassemble your models?

>it took them over a month to arrive at this conclusion
Should't they have a better idea of how their own rules work? Especially with "3 years" of playtesting?

>ekrueger took several indirect nerfs

And got fucking rebuke to make up for it.

Sure, but he can no longer stay nice and safe in the back line until he wants to come super far forward to feat on you, and with his feat no longer denying charges, he can't just cripple your whole army with no real recourse.

He also lost druids.

I hope a cryx player or two does well at the WTC this weekend so i can decide what the hell to play.

Just got my Sovereign Durant today. What does i need to run him properly but tons of Jacks and maybe Flamebringers?

>How do you even make that viable as it is now without changing the stats?

Agonizer +2 arm, enrage +2 str, xekaar-mortality -2 def/arm to enemy, Despoiler-dark shroud -2 arm to enemy....

Notice though that using anything else besides the rhinodon works pretty much better. It's obvious that no serious thought was put into it's MK.III incarnation, actually that's wrong to say, it went from a near useless warbeast in Mk.II to utter garbage for MK.III. They went out of their way to nerf something that was already in the bottom of the barrel for skonre.

>They nerfed the bottom of the barrel in the faction that was the bottom of the barrel
Woah. It's like the Rhinodon is a test to see just how bad a model can get. The first big update for Mk3 will give it 0.5" RNG.

It's about their belief that every faction needs a budget heavy, the idea that they must have a bare bones, budget warbeast.

Budget heavies work for Warmachine now, because the heavies are self supplying.

But Focus requires a balance, and there's just no reason to take a cheap heavy that doesn't do as much.

The thing needs a niche. If, for example, it was harder to kill, I think it would be more suitable as a cheap objective holder.

In reality dual-wielding is very rare. Offhand is usually a parry "weapon" or a shield (though you can of course still attack with offhand).

Samurai would have two weapons due to length. One sword was shorter for indoor fighting and the other was for outdoor fighting. (they might also have a dagger, and samurai where more horse archerers anyway. but I assume we are talking about katana and wakazashi.)

Budget heavy warjacks work because they're fucking MAT7 and PS19, not MAT6 and PS15.

>The thing needs a niche.

Completely agree. It lost it's niche as a somewhat decent anti infantry heavy to become absolutely nothing. The Gladiator is still a better budget heavy. They very least they could have done was give it more hit boxes so it'd at least be tempting to use as bait to real in the enemy for counter attacking and so it's animus might actually do some worthwhile damage. More hit boxes would also make it a useful for dmg transfer for a warlock that wants to get stuck in (which is thematically what skorne should be doing).

>Agonizer +2 arm, enrage +2 str, xekaar-mortality -2 def/arm to enemy, Despoiler-dark shroud -2 arm to enemy....

Does it have synergy with anything in particular?

I know building around a single War Beast is likely a bad investment of time, but I enjoy a challenge.

No.

About the best use of it I can see is spamming it with Naaresh to take advantage of his feat.

NAARESH FEAT TIER LIST

>Top tier
A normal list full of titans

>Mid tier
A cyclops memelist

>Shit tier
Rhinodons

Where do archidons fit in that?

Shut up.

SHUT UP.

It is worth saying that Naaresh loves himself some Despoiler.

Monsterpocalypse Leftovers tier

No he doesn't. The bubbles stacking is irrelevant for a few reasons.

>1)
You'll die trying to catch things in the bubbles, and even if you do it's likely not that big of a deal. Naaresh's own bubble only works because he doesn't have to pay to upkeep it

>2)
Naaresh should be on a control point during your opponent's turn

Despoiler outside Mordikaar is just weird considering the massive power of Void Spirits now.

>enter thread
>Skorne bitching from second post onward

Is Veeky Forums finally worse than the official forums?

On a better note, who do you think is the most imrproved caster of MK3? Who got their nuts removed the hardest? Who is the most fun to play?

Man, it must suck to be you.

Hey it might be coming back.

shit forgot link
variety.com/2016/film/news/monsterpocalypse-movie-warner-bros-1201765543/

I'll give you the non-salty answers for Skorne.

>who do you think is the most imrproved caster of MK3?
Morghoul1. More jacks means a more relevant feat, and a more relevant damage pump from Abuse. Gaining Steady also got rid of his biggest weakness. I'm very sad that he lost the ability to murder an entire unit on his own though.
>Who got their nuts removed the hardest?
Makeda1. They took a mid tier caster, gutted her spell list, kicked her spell slave in the balls, fisted her character beast, then blew such a hole in her feat that for weeks people thought all placed models had to sacrifice their action.

So how are the Skorne Catapults now if you're looking to build a gunline?

Double Bubble works on warbeasts now, so you basically remove their ability to cast their own animi, which is a big fucking deal.

Despoiler also hits pretty hard with Naaresh as well.

Animi got an all round nerf this edition anyway. And a lot of the time you want to cast them with your warlock so that your beasts can go max out killing something. There's also redundancy between Naaresh, who gets free upkeeps, and Black Arts, which lets you upkeep for free. His damage output is a little over a Gladiator, but when is an enemy beast ever going to be within 10" of Despoiler? If an enemy beast is within 10", it's probably going to kill you, and he's not the most survivable thing. You're paying 4 points for a questionable animus just because it can theoretically work with Naaresh's own. Like nigger just bring a solo or something.

>Hurr this beast hits pretty hard if you give it an extra +3STR

Lot of animi went to self, man.

Not so easy for the warlock to put them out.