"studded leather armor was first referenced in D&D... there was no such thing"

he's probably saying it has much fewer metal plates than full brigandine, only covering extremely vital areas or something

>The worlds first super hero

>bear tries to bite head
>gets stabbed in mouth
>bear tries to bite arm
>gets stabbed in mouth
>bear tries to claw back
>gets stabbed in paw
user I don't think you understand the true power of this armor

Anyone got lists for more accurate historical armor & weapon blocks for 3.x?

>bear tackles guy in armour
>crushes guy in armour
>all his buddies hiding in the bushes camp it out until the bear bleeds to death ontop of their dead buddy

>Bear swips you in the chest.
>Bear has small pricks in it's paw.
>Your chest is caved in

I don't think you understand how useless it is. Or how strong a bear is.

>Bear mauls you
>Bear loses hand
>The impact is still strong enough to break your everything

...

Is there another term that could be used to be any more precise then? The best I could think of is jack of plates, but I don't really have any idea what I'm talking about when it comes to armor in a non-rpg sense

A few months ago, some anons were complaining about HFY stories, you know, the usual.
I then made a post in which the Xenomorph from alien was described in the same way humans are in said stories
>Can you believe it? Our blood. Our blood is ACID to them!
My main point was how HFY stories were just how we described other aliens species in fiction but applied to humanity traits and skills.

Now, who knows how much time later you bring this image up.
Humans are this close to being xenomorphs. Who knew?

Coat of plates? But that might just be another name for a brigandine.

Halfcoat of plates? Trimmed/light Brigandine? Most armor was pretty modular. Even amongst fullplate, the difference in era and purpose of that plate could be quite signifigant, especially where projectile penetration was involved.

Fuck, was right.

LOL D&D

Brigandine is ~80% as good as top-end full plate for a fraction of the cost. It was the "bullet proof vest" of it's day.

It seems the way to do it would be to space the brigantine in a way that minimizes the metal on metal contact. There'd be gaps, but if you throw in some false studs with nothing behind them, it shouldn't be obvious where the gaps are.

>thinks "humans are the scary aliens" is a unique view on HFY
>doesn't know how HFY started

I thought the issues with brigantine were that it's going to a: be easier to force something in the gaps between the plates than it is to punch through a solid plate and b: since it's riveted to a cloth or leather front it's not as good for stopping repeated blows, damage to the softer cloth and leather can compromise the coverage the plates provide.

>Our blood. Our blood is ACID to them!
No. This is retarded. Their blood is acid to EVERYTHING. Remember that whole scene where blood from ONE xenomorph burnt through several decks?

No, unless it's a fucking wire you can't slip it in between the plates in a corrazina/brigandine/coat of plate as they are typically overlapping. For the most part it behaves like a normal breastplate, its weaknesses being if a pick or some other powerful piercing device just blows clean through the overlapping plates and forces its way through, or sheer concussive force turns your organs into jello. Which is possible because unlike a breastplate, birgandine armor is not a single solid piece of steel, and does not absorb and disperse force as well.

This reminds me of the 'Lambton worm' myth from where I live.

A knight who comes back from the Crusades to find a giant dragon has taken up residence in his town. It's managed to kill every knight that's challenged it by crushing them.

So the knight goes to a witch and asks how he can defeat it. The witch tells him to stick spear heads all over his armour to stop the dragon from coiling around him.

Then some other bullshit happens, long story short spiked armour is bretty gud.

...

...

...

Studded leather armor existed in China. Militia-sailors made scales out of treated cowhide, and joined them through studs. It was considered the best leather armor available.

>studded leather armor was first referenced in D&D... there was no such thing

Gygax seems to have got it from Charles Ashdown's 1909 book "British and Foreign Arms and Armour". Playing At the World has some quotes from Gygax in 1971: playingattheworld.blogspot.com.au/2014/07/the-legacy-of-gygaxs-armor.html and you can download Ashdown's book here: archive.org/details/britishforeignar00ashduoft.

Ashdown has a whole chapter "The Studded and Splinted Armour Period, 1335-1360"

"Pourpoint in its simplest form is merely a padded garment ; studded pourpoint, or studded mail, as
it was occasionally called, consisted of metal discs or roundels, generally of steel, secured
by rivets to the padded garment, or to leather or cuir-bouilli."

According to comments on the PatW page, Ashdown got most of his mail armour types from another Victorian-era writer called Meyerick.

>Ashdown got most of his mail armour types from another Victorian-era writer called Meyerick.
>well_theres_your_problem.png

What would be the modern full plate armor then?

ching chong coin armor made by native americans is pretty neat.

>It was considered the best leather armor available.
And it's still shit, compared to period-appropriate metal armor. I guess not drowning is kind of a big plus.

Works pretty gud.

youtube.com/watch?v=Vf3Wj_d-aOE

Now do ring-mail.

Pretty good story, deserve those dubs

Yeah, because THAT'S the problem with 3.x. The nonsensical weapons and armor that martials use.

Who was talking about 3.5?

Is that the regenerating serpent that got washed down the river so it couldn't piece itself together again?

I don't remember the spear points, I thought he just hacked it with a sword.

I imagine there are many variations of the story but this is the one I'm familiar with.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambton_Worm

Thorns effect too OP plz nerf

>laughing longfinger Kirk.jpg

He had to go to a witch to figure that out?

That's not 'studded leather armor'?

But that's wrong, you mong.

With a good, lucky thrust (i.e. not impossible at all) the tip of the blade finds a line and 'skates' along the surface of a plate and under its neighbour.

Still, pretty good to say that on it's worst day (or a 'critical hit') a brig is still as good as a gambeson or buff coat.

I wonder who is behind this post.

No, that guy's pretty much right. The plates are held together quite solidly on a competently-made coat of plates, and they overlap not only the ones above and below them, but on the sides as well. A "lucky thrust" like that one you describe is quite literally one in a million, and not something the vast majority of soldiers will ever experience on the battlefield, and as such, not worth consideration here.

Animals tend to naturally avoid spikey things.

>A buckler is a small shield strapped to the forearm

>Knight Kirkovsky

Then what is it?

It's a small shield usually gripped in the off hand. Except when one was sometimes strapped to the sword hand to protect it. Take that autism guy!

Those aren't studs, user. Those are spikes.

Brigandine was introduced by the Mongols into Europe through their excursions into Euroland, though.

WHAT IS BLUNT TRAUMA?

Are you people actually retarded,a bear isn't going to take a swing at something covered in steel spikes,they feel pain and have self preservation instincts. Would you punch a dude in the face if it was covered in 3 inch steel spikes just because you could?

Dedicated bear hunters spend years getting maimed by smaller animal to build up resistance to blunt trauma, dummy.

Once the adrenaline's going, a rampaging animal isn't going to process pain.
That woman who got her face eaten by a chimp, the chimp's owner stabbed the chimp with a knife halfway through the mauling and it didn't even register.

>You see, Ivan, if you are wearings spike armor, you would fear not the bear, as is afraid of getting splinters when eating you

Are we talking chimp chimp or nigger on bath salts?

...

Actual chimpanzee

studded leather armor is a retard looking at brigandine and not knowing what it is

Who in their right mind would think getting one of those as a pet is good idea?

I'm just going to throw this out there, but I'm almost sure bears have few innate instincts; they are taught much by their mothers by staying with them for the first couple years of their lives. Likewise dogs learn from the pack (while still possessing some innate instincts like animal herding dogs or murder like pitbulls).

They're not like cats that are just born knowing how to do everything 100% including murder.

A bear most likely will fuck with something it is unfamiliar with before learning not to fuck with it. And even the most cowardly bear, the black bear, will still fuck you up regardless of your natural hazards if you encounter it with its young.

>Ashdown got most of his mail armour types from another Victorian-era writer called Meyerick.
>well_theres_your_problem.png

Sir Samuel Rush Meyrick (1783–1848), was probably one of the three most important historians of the victorian age (Emmanuel Viollet de Duc, in france, and Charles Alfred Stothard, in england were the otehr two.). While his work has in many areas been replaced, his "A critical enquiry into antient armour as it existed in Europe, but particularly in England, from the Norman conquest to the reign of King Charles II, with a glossary of military terms of the middle ages" (snappy title) is one of the seminal works of the subject of arms and armour, and in his day he was truly ground-breaking.

Much of his own collection eventually ended up being bought by Richard Wallace, and is now the core elements of the Wallace Collection.

Only a fool would mock his work, for it is on what he established that much of what we now know has been built on. A direct line can be drawn from Sir Samuel Meyrick, to Sir Guy Laking, to Sir James Mann, to Dr Tobias Capwell, writing today.

As Newton once wrote, "If I have seen further, it is because I has stood upon the shoulders of Giants."

For those of us studying arms and armour, Meyrick is that giant. Flawed in some areas, yes. But without his work, we would have never got where we are today.

a spike is just an angry stud

Cats learn that from their mother you illiterate deminigger

It's okay user, he's just niggered.

Is it possible to make bronze plate armor? I'm talking full plate type stuff.

...

Could it be made, or is the metal too inferior to work with?

Nobody calls me spike and I'm angry as hell

Well it's just made up bullshit so I imagine it's for dramatic effect.

Unfortunately the witch had some convoluted clause where after the battle he had to kill the first living thing he saw. He planned on releasing his dog and killing that but he accidentally ran into his farther.

He obviously didn't have the heart to kill his dad so his family was cured and the first born of the next nine generations of his family always died before their time.

This part of the myth likely comes from the Lampton's unfortunate luck, generations 1, 2, 3 and 9 after Sir John did all die in battle or accidents.

cursed*

As far as working or machining bronze, you can basically do anything with it that you could do with steel.

It's denser, softer, and weaker than steel though, so while you could make a suit of full plate out of it I'm not sure if it would be any good as armor.

Really? Would it being softer allow it to be made earlier? I'm just wondering of a chainmail using culture encountering a bronze plate armor culture, and how'd that work out.

sorry to hear that stud
;^)

...we call it plate ....also gambison is more similar in use a and function to a modern Kevlar vest. brig was top ddog for a long time

it existed. it was for leading troops from a chariot..it was fucking heavy

Oh really? I guess I knew about the whole bronze muscle cuirass and all that, but never thought of it as plate for some reason.

I was just trying to imagine a bronze version of this, to counter balance an iron mail wearing army.

...

Same reason solid plate steel tends to be so shitty in games - because people underestimate how good armor is?

Other than the muscle there. It looked like this ideas and craftsmanship if that type had not happened yet

>calls a person a mong
>yet literally knows nothing on the subject
Well mister armchair roleplayer, that's not how it works, because all 'coat of plate' types of armor made by anybody with a lick of sense are OVERLAPPING. I stress that word because you seem to not be able to comprehend it, as a sword tip from a thrust will not "skate" into something that is a centimeter overlapped by another steel plate. Unless it's able to phase through objects, the only thing it's 'skating' into is another solid steel plate.

>Would you punch a dude in the face if it was covered in 3 inch steel spikes just because you could?

One thing life has taught me is that there are very few things humans won't do just because they can.

bump

> Inferior metal
It took over a thousand years for people to make *steel* that was better than bronze. Most Roman & Dark Age *iron* was really poor. It was, however, abundant.

Didn't he then eat the worm and then turn into a worm or something in the end?

Hoorah, another Northerner!

Okay so the thing with armor materials is that Bronze is much better than Iron and early low grade forms of steel in plate form, but you need copper and tin to make bronze and copper is really rare where there's tin deposits and tin is really rare where there's copper deposits.

(The Iron Age is important because Iron is far far better for making edged weapons with than copper or bronze and it's more plentiful)

Chain mail is explicitly a means to use the few ways iron is better than bronze (cheaper, harder, lighter, good tensile strength) to make a light, flexible armor that's sufficiently able to turn iron weapons and especially arrows to be useful as armor, and also increasing the manueverability of armies and their ablity to carry more supplies longer distances in the field because they're not weighed down by bronze any more - chain mail is basically how the vikings and the wider danegeld are able to be such a big deal in northern europe, and what ultimately made castles neccesary.

>trying to maneuver in an upturned bucket

Somebody with more money than sense.

...

Shit, really? Guess I need to do more research into the bronze age, and metal properties. So I guess with a high level of craftsmanship you could make out of bronze, as long as you have the skill and materials to make it.

When did steel really come into play, anyway? I'm trying to set a rough era on my setting, and trying to avoid anachronistic stuff like steel plate with iron age stuff and so on (to a point - some stuff is too good to pass up).