Warmachine/hordes

The actual rules, for both Warmachine and Hordes, comes in at just over 100 pages. All the rest of it is artwork, modeling and painting, and unit entry stuff.

Not to say the rules aren't pretty in-depth, because they absolutely are, but it's not insane.

I was looking at that as well. Mainly I just thought about getting into historical as my first tabletop but I wanna dip my toes into a little of everything.

But Malifaux and infinity aren't too expensive right?

40 bucks ain't bad. The only reason I'm worried about spendyness is I have to con a friend into getting this with me.

Yeah I've been down to local shop and you are right user I'll really have to check if warmachine is even popular. they seem to stock it but for christ sake they stock dead games like AOS too so I shouldn't assume.

>The only reason I'm worried about spendyness is I have to con a friend into getting this with me.

In that case, I'd suggest one of the two player boxes. Even better value than the regular starters, especially if you split the cost with a friend.

Cool thanks so much for the help user. Will look into the two player boxes and the local scene.

>But Malifaux and infinity aren't too expensive right?
Malifaux isn't so bad unless you play resser.
You need every minion, multiple of them.

Infinity is easy to enter expensive to stay because you need unit diversity.
At least they are only 20 a blister.

Seriously though, my maulifaux ran me about 300-400ish and infinity 'bout the same.
Cheaper than 40k
Maybe cheaper than scubmachine and scordes.

>40 bucks ain't bad.
No it isn't but it's not even an army though.
(Wait it's 75 points now, huh)
It's literally a start collecting box per level of points which in that light makes it rather valuable.

Yeah i'll give malifaux a look when I'm in the shop next week. If it's not pricey i'll see if I can't get a demo game of it.

Also on the warmahords front I can get the starter boxes for 30 bucks I mean if I can two for me and friend for the price of a video game I can't complain but if you think malifaux is good I wanna test it out too.

Our store had one player introduce a new guy to the game with a 35 point game if his Lucant tier list armor spam, versus a Skorne pMakeda list.

I honeatly don't know how these people can't slow their roll. There is a clear difference between not giving a free win and patronizing the new guy, versus bringing a dickish hard skew to an intro game that is hard to chew through even if you plan for it.

I don't even define those people as competitive players, because they only place they look for wins is against weaker players.

So could a Siege Animantarax beat an Archangel on the table?

No.

I don't know if a SA could kill an AA even under the best conditions.

Though, that's an interesting experiment.

It'd be interesting to see how much damage one could do to one.

Or any Colossal or Gargantuan.

Come to think of it, I wonder if any Battle Engine can take a Colossal or Gargantuan now.

The only ones I know of at the moment that can fight back in close combat are the Animantarax and Wraith Engine, but I never see the Wraith Engine on the table.

Personally, I am new comer to Warmachine, and I just picked up a Khador Army, after selling some Orks, and im excited for my 2nd game. My list is mainly made of mini's I like:
14/15 points
Lord Kozolov
>Juggernaut
>Desolater
Man Hunter
3 Man-O-Wars

That seems like a pretty reasonable list, doesnt it?

How the mighty have fallen.

Hey OP here seeing as the warmachine general isn't up anyone got a link for where I can get say the rulebook and army book pdfs?

Core rulebooks can be found on PP's site for free, now.

Let's see.

SA vs AA, let's assume best possible conditions.

So, SA under Rasheth.

Rasheth swings -2DEF and -4ARM, bringing the AA to a 9/14, with 50 boxes.

SA is 6/5 to hit that 9, so we're looking at 97% chance of hitting with melee(99.5% with the impact and initial melee), and a 91% for the guns.

SA has an impact at POW15, so dice +1, a charge at 18(+4), 3 more swings at 18, two swings at 11(-3), and let's say 2 gunshots at 15(+1)

So impact gives us 8 damage, charge gives us 13.5, additional melee give us 24, spears give us 8, and the gun shots give us 16

Accounting for the hit %, that comes out to a total of 66.45 damage, of overkilling it by a shitload, in fact.

I'm kind of interested in doing a comparison on something else, though at the same time, that's a pretty huge swing. Only thing I didn't give the SA was more than minimum shots.

im not a Khador player I play cryx but I almost picked khador what you have there seems halfway decent but let me tell you something since your just starting out.

play what you like some people will give you flack for not optimizing or not auto including x jack/unit. but play what you like and figure out how to win with that it helps you think outside the box/meta and think on your toes. when I first got in I loved the cryx helljacks but didn't care for the banes I did well enough even placed 4th in a tourney or two, mark3 rolls around and banes have been nerfed to crap but im unaffected by it because I didn't pigeon hole myself. basically find a caster or two that you like and go from there see what units/jacks you like the look of and work them into your gameplan.

I should say that i play resser. And thus that's why it was about 300 to have a semi functional nicodem list.
I still need some models left but i should be cheaper if you into other leaders.
Outcasts freidkorps should be cheap + 50 hannah (45) + strong armou (15) +student of warfar (i'm not sure if it comes in another box)
it's not great but it's a solid list.
Ortega from what i remember WILL win you tournies and probably costs about 200

I don't suggest manhunters. They don't actually do that much that's valuable, I'd go with kayazy eliminators to fill their niche.

That's WAAAYY better odds than I thought.

The problem with manhunters us there survivability, if you can safeguard them until they can do work then they can REALLY do work but that's a big if.

WAAC
But most warmahorde players at my local are like that, even one of my good friends.
To illustrate
He played Legion, in first edition.
And so did his young brother who looked like a faggot and called me gay every time he saw me

I have you ever seen someone play P-asph (or nomral asph) with 3 leviathans in the jacks only game type.
It was a pet list of mine and i wanted to see if became viable or if anyone was enough of contrarian faggot to try.
3 str 15 shot(a)s per 'jack and his native spell slinging seemed fun to me

Maybe you shouldn't be so gay

nah iv never seen it done, the cryx player pool around where I am is pretty small but it seems like the kind of crazy pick that I would love to see, if nothing else to see if my opponent has an answer to that sort of crazy. afterall no one really expects to get in a shooting match with cryx.

>Maybe you shouldn't be so gay

Thats some good advice, although I will admit that the units I picked were slightly influenced by the WarRoom app. All the units I have are part of the free cards given, so at the moment, I dont need to buy the deck yet. So thats a good bit of money saved.

I'll also admit that when it came to selecting a faction to play, I went a tadd turbo autist; I made a chart for each faction, amd seperated the minis of them into Good, Meh, and Bad piles, based on my opinion. Khador won out, followed closesly by Circle Orboros. So, I know exactly what mini's I like and dislike.

Eh. I think they are able to take on tougher oppenents, while also taking a bit more damage. Plus, Manhunters have the sexy russian lady in a fur hat, and a free card in War Room, and I think work better with the Count. But, hey, if later on I want some Kayazy's, I might pick them up. But at the moment, a simple manhunter is far easier to play than the Kayazy's, who work on lots of posistioning and ganging up on mini's

What about the Throne of Everblight against a Colossal or Gargantuan?

The throne looks wicked in melee.

The thing is, they can't take on tougher opponents. They don't actually kill solos better than eliminators. Eliminators kill single wound stuff better than manhunters, and multiwound stuff at least as well.

Vs an arm 16 light, a manhunter charging will do about 14.5 damage. Two eliminators charging will do about 19 damage with combo strike, and they'll be def 17 to counter attack instead of def 14. The assassins are also doing it at mat 9 instead of mat 8. Assassins will certainly lose effectiveness fast once one dies, but the manhunter loses all effectiveness and the extra 3 points of armor isn't going to save it.

thanks, I really appreciate that. there's no shame in looking to see who's strong and basing your pick off of that/ what's in the warroom app im old fashioned so I prefer the cards, I even had my first set laminated if you going to use the app and what to expand its probably a good idea to get it sometime in the near future otherwise you can just rely on the cards that come with the models until you've got a big enough army to justify buying the online deck.

I picked my faction because there jacks looked cool and the fact that their ruled by an immortal dragon the size of Godzilla and consist of a bunch of fullmetal lichs that command robozombies and demon pirate amazons was badass as fuck, that and I fell in love with denny/ all of cryx's backstory/lore. and I loved the way they played with all of the shenagins compared to cygnars shooting khadors rush to melee,etc,etc.

making a charts not a bad way to do it just remember that sometimes a meh unit/jack can be godlike in the right circumstances and a godlike unit can be crap, that's not to say there aren't mainstays that everyone likes to take but you get the idea.

>Five of the seven regular players at my shop refuse to store or present information outside of War Room
>One of them refuses to even let you glance at his tablet because "that's mine, you should have your own"
I wish more people were mobilephobe Luddites like me.

>The only thing worse than buying an army for a wargame no one plays is buying an army for a wargame when you can't stand everyone who plays.
The reason that I quit 40K for Flames of War and Warmachine. I don't know how people, even if the majority of them are 14, can stand not even painting their miniatures or just spray painting them one color.

Unlike video games where you are going to have a decent choice online, tabletop games are personal and having a good community is essential.

I always feel weird about asking not because im afraid he will say no but just because is awkward and time consuming compared to just handing me the card.I just feel like its easier to read what your opponents crap does and its slightly less of a hassle to see his cards than to ask to see his tablet and flip through it to find what your looking for so I feel yah.

>One of them refuses to even let you glance at his tablet because "that's mine, you should have your own"
You tell that faggot to show you the information as the rules require him to, or refuse to play with him. If someone asks to see your cards, you fucking show them, that's just how it works.

Try Guildball OP. yw

I'm glad I never painted my skorne because that might make it harder to sell them.

My khador is about 70% painted I'd say. Winter guard, iron fangs, shock troopers, 1 drakhun, all of my warjacks, widowmakers, battle mechaniks, manhunter, eliminators, kovnik joe, kovnik andy, war dog, sorscha 1 and 2, butcher 1, harkevich, irusk 1 are painted. Unpainted are all the other warcasters, kossites, demo corps, mortar, field gun, my second drakhun, greylords, koldun lord, manowar kovnik, iron fang kovnik, widowmaker marksman.

So what's the verdict on Man-o-War units in Mk3? Still shit or at least usable in casual and kitchentable?

Super usable man. Shocktroopers at least. The UA and Irusk2 and Koslov really make them shine. Hell, Malakov2 could be a lot of fun with a MMM of mechaniks and Man-o-Wars. Shocktroopers in my eyes really got what they needed out of Mk3, they got assault, an easy way to heal them in the field, and plenty of speed buffs to go around.

Shock troopers are fantastic, especially if the caster can speed them up. Bombardiers are seeing some play with minimum sized units. Demo corps are still pretty pointless, because for 5 more points you get shock troops with UA that are steady, sturdy, have 1 more base arm, shield wall, have an extra model, and they trade 2 pow on their weapon for a pow 14 assault.

Not that Khador needed another good unit, but the Demo Corps card is one of those things that just boggles the mind. It's like they forgot to put something in.

Okay faggots so recently I've taken to thinking that I should start messing around with my pair of Gremlin Swarms in games. Against Warmachine they have the obvious advantage of being able to disrupt and damage warjacks, but against Hordes who have a distinct lack of magical weapons, I think they could be legit as a way of messing with positioning. If I put my heavy in charge range of your heavy, but put a Gremlin Swarm in front of my heavy, you can't charge me because there's nowhere for your model to go. Also see pic related, where the Hellmouth can't really do anything to the titan.

They seem like pretty high skill ceiling models to use properly.

>It's like they forgot to put something in.
2 Reptile Hounds, 7 points.

But where is the 2nd damage spiral?

>Is it cheap to get into?
>Not really. The game has gotten to the point where forces are much larger than they used to be. It's about on par with GW stuff.
Forces have actually decreased in model count and cost from Mk2.

>Hows the community
>Some good players, but most are assholes.
My experience is the exact opposite.

>Is it beginner friendly
>It's basically Magic:The Gathering with miniatures. If you find a good combo you win, if not you lose.
>There are far better games to play.
Spot on. The game is fucked right now. Wouldn't get into it as a new player.

It probably could under Xerxis1. But then again: Why not just use a Gladiator?

The Animantarax is one of only two models in Skorne with ROF>1.

Mammoth, Reiver cannon, Hydra (in practice) and Animatarax. You're right, we are more fucked than I thought.

But my question stands: Why not just use a Gladiator?

/wmhg/ is a pretty terrible place, don't worry about what the whiners and haters here say.

Sure, but Nicodem is easily one of the most expensive lists you can choose to pick up. If you stay away from summoner casters and lists with lots of large based models, you can play Malifaux relatively cheap.

You can get into something like Guild or 10 Thunders, buy a couple of the masters' starter boxes, toss on a couple minions or an enforcer, and have a pretty flexible base to build off of. Just make sure you pick a pair of masters that can use eachother's models. If you shop around for prices (esp if you're willing to play with the first edition models) you can get into Mali for under $100.

I'm literally not the guy originally suggesting the Animantarax, but it's really not that bad now. Any list with it will have a Gladiator anyway. I like the idea of giving it reposition with Xerxis to pseudo extend the range of its gun.

Pretty sure withholding information from your opponent like that is against the rules. What next? Should you have to keep track of his damage too?

Oh shit I just checked and the Animantarax has built in reposition. Nerfs when?

Wish I could find more players like this. The competitive scene drove me out of Magic, and I don't want to get into Warmahordes because of the competitive scene again. I would make a community of casuals if I found enough. Probably do it in Roll20 or something.

Now if only it was not made of cardboard and could boost its guns.

The wording on WHAC looks like it can boost guns though.

Holy crap they're going to try to fix Skorne
privateerpress.com/community/privateer-insider/insider-10-4-2016-prelude-to-errata

WHAC isn't correct, currently the SA can only boost melee attack and damage rolls

>Not a single day has gone by that we haven’t voraciously devoured feedback and responses from any outlet offering thoughtful critique and discussion on the games
THEY MEAN US, LADS

you get 2 status cards in the pack

Hungerford definitely reads this place but I doubt schick acknowledges us

In order to bring skorne in line with other factions, karax will be losing a point of armor and set defense, xerxis will be losing defender's ward because cetrati still brick too good, the cannoneer is going to lose far strike, and ferox will have their points increased. Also the aradi will be reduced to fury 3.

I for one reject all claims that I have displayed even a modicum of fortitude, decorum, or basic human understanding in this matter as the lies and calumnies that they are.

>it's going to be a long slog to mid-january, lads

Don't know if that's good or bad. I like Schick.

I am again at the point where I can laugh about comments like this instead of dreading them to be accurate.

Depends how they interpret top 5%. Top 5% overall, or top 5% per faction? If it's the latter, Karax (the only infantry in skorne, in the sense that the model is clearly of a skorne infantryman) and Ferox (the only actual infantry in skorne, for all that the model is clearly of a skorne cavalryman) get it in the neck.

Maybe Ferox don't even squeak by the first definition, it's hard to tell. There's never been a one of them that has been played outside a skorne list, which makes them hard to assess.

You heard it here first folk, in order to buff Skorne the agonizer's claws will go up to P+S 9.

For this first round (and I think the next 2) Skorne and Cryx will have a special threatment andget more Errata.

In general they want to change at max 10% of all the model in the game.

5% top and 5% bottom. I think is a good number.

Just so long as Commissar Joe gets his ass purged. I won't *need* Karax so much then.

I honestly think you can't apply it to Skorne. They note they're going to overhaul the entire faction, I don't think they fall under the 5% bit at all either way.

Cryx maybe not. In general their issues are more just about lacking tools rather than having a huge problem.

Like, if gun lines weren't so big Cryx would be a lot stronger.

All they need is the tools to respond to gun lines and actually be able to deliver their army

If they want to fix gunlines, maybe they shouldn't give the most potent gunlines true sight. It's not helpful to give tools to beat gunlines when they can ignore those tools.

There are people on the forums that would argue against that. It's frankly quite silly.

That's a problem in of itself, though. If every Cryx army includes a certain unit/solo because it's necessary to deliver their army, everyone else knows it's going to show up when playing Cryx, and can prepare appropriately. It also makes building your army kind of boring and restrictive, if you need to take a certain unit or lose.

From what I've heard from people with insider knowledge, Madrak2 and Wurmwood are the only things really on the block *right now*; Sloan is probably going to be changed too, but not much is expected to be nerfed.

Cheap heavy warbeasts are thought to be underperforming; the Skorne "overhaul" may be mostly a case of making cheap heavy warbeasts viable.

You do realize that this is a problem a great number of Skorne players would crawl on their belies before Soles to have back?

No-one in my area plays a Hordes army, so I only have third-hand knowledge of what the situation for those factions is like. If that's a problem Skorne have, obviously it's an issue, yes.

>No-one in my area plays a Hordes army

Mk3, folks.

It's not even that. My 'meta' is myself and two other people who started playing in a backwoods club about a year and a half ago ago.

I'm in same boat as you OP.

my nearest meta is in the city as just Veeky Forums stuff in general is near a none existent niche in my country. Been looking to getting into wargames for a long while. I've about 2 friends who are into warmachine and a third who has the same interest as myself but he was put off by the community. To quote him replying to my wish to join it was "you are better than those people". Still I lurk on the /warm/ boards sometimes to check out the paint schemes and over the while I saw my way into reading into every faction.

Menoth was rarely played in the city so I picked up a starterbox,choir and paladin guy over the course of a few weeks. Still no idea what my favored play style would be but I know the first guy friend of mine plays Skorne and his brother plays the clock guys. Would actually love to make it my hobby.

sorry for the blog.

>the Skorne "overhaul" may be mostly a case of making cheap heavy warbeasts viable
I seriously hope not. We have good beasts. We need good infantry and casters. Fixing our cheap beasts should be a priority, but not the immediate one.

So, 5% averages out to about 4 models per factions.

What's your faction's top 4 and bottom 4 models?

All impressions I get from what they're looking at for the errata is to not expect much, positive or negative.

The bottom 5% also seems to be "bottom 5% in performance compared to how we think they should perform" as opposed to absolute 5% worst performing models.

They also seem to think Cygnar is fine.

>They also seem to think Cygnar is fine.

Cygnar is fine if they're supposed to be the benchmark that everyone else measures up to. If they aim to leave Cygnar alone and buff everyone up to their level, I'll be happy.

Well I play Cygnar (boo, hiss). So I'm dreading any nerfs to our non-Haley2 stuff. Storm Lances are the best Cav in the game, full stop. If they get nerfed into oblivion, someone else will have the best Cav in the game, thus is the way of things. Cygnar infantry is in a wierd spot where we have two good options (Lances and Trencher Inf.) But all our other infantry is dirtgarbage with the worst mix of victim statlines and pigeonholed roles imaginably. If our top models get burned to the ground, what do we have left? ATGM? Stormguard??

On the other hand, Control casters are really strong in this game in general, and perhaps they need a rebalance, looking at you Haley2.

CYGNAR
>Top
Haley2
Lances
Caine2
Junior

>Bottom
Precursors
Thunderhead
Blaize
Stormguard (regular+SL)

SKORNE
>Top
No

>Bottom
Yes

I just hope the nerf will aim to make the game balanced.

If things start to be OP and then sended to Oblivion I think I will leave the game.

I want a a balanced game. WarmaHorde cost to much to become a flavor fo month type of game.

Please don't tell me that this is real. My faction deck finally arrived and it looks bad.

I think that if PP buff other Faction anti shooty piece Cygnar is ok.

That's mk2 you got there, girlfriend.

Got out at the launch of mk3 after learning my three colossal khador list wasnt an option any more and my doom reaver spam was nerfed.

Can I make double colossal work? I've been trying, but its so frail.

>my three colossal khador list wasnt an option any more

lol

>my doom reaver spam was nerfed.

lolol

Go fuck yourself, dude.

The Inverter is mk3. I just put a mk2 card there for comparison since the hitboxes look so bland.