be me

Why is this? Is it because Bitcoin:crypto market=USD:global financial market? As in, is BTC essentially the driver and mover of cryptomarkets? Same way that the world revolves around the USD?

Alright, ill give you one lesson. There will be people who come in here and say it doesnt matter but it does. You can choose to do this and be a successful trader, or you can just do what you are doing and think you are winning

for the sake of simplicity 1 btc = 100 dollar.

you buy a shitcoin for .001 sats (satoshis ((think cents but thats what its called for btc))). that is equal to 10 cents each. lets say you buy one.

Btc decides to bull run to $200. 1 btc = $200.

if that shitcoin maintained its sat value (the value you bought with, you traded for btc), .001 your shitcoin now is worth 20 cents.

You are still breaking even with btc. your shitcoin is still worth .001. when you sell it it will still be .001 even though the fiat value went up.

here is where you get fucked. lets say the same scenairo happened with the bull run but your shitcoin is still worth 10 cents. You think you broke even still and your alt is saved.

Your shitcoin is now worth .0005. you just lost half the btc you bought with. you are now down 10 cents because .001 is now worth 20 cents.

the same if you trade in eth and ltc.

stop looking at fiat. stop. if you dont get it after this then its whatever.

You got it pretty spot on. Since the market is so bullish basically everyone is making usd/fiat but could be losing out in btc value. Most people are trading to accumulate more btc eventually

If you're trading anything on an exchange that uses BTC as the pair and you lose bitcoin value but gain USD value, it's very clear on the chart that you would have been more profitable staying in bitcoin if you sold lower (in btc) then you bought. Looking at the fact that the fiat value went up makes it look like a smart trade when the reality is no trade (from BTC to altcoin) would have been better.

fuck off bitcoin shill, it isn't even used as a currency and never will be
USD is a perfectly good measure because it holds a relatively constant value

Thanks dudes. Is there a crypto tracking website that uses LTC -> BTC ratios? I bought like ten BTC in 2012 when I fucked around with le Silk Road and coins were $13ish, no regerts though because I got some solid DMT shipped straight to my dorm mailbox. Whatever. No point in being upset over it.

You didn't lose anything you absolute fucking brainlet. If you sold that shitcoin for BTC and sold the latter for USD, you'd have the exact same amount of money you put in. You'd have just missed out on potential gains. Stop brainwashing the newbies.

I'm partial to your answer as well. True, in the cryptomarket BTC is the obvious peg. But I operate in a real world, not a crypto world, therefore USD has more value to me.

nigger i dont even hold btc. I hold eth and trade by paying attention to gwei. same rules apply.

bro its cool. trade how you want. I dont care. Not my money not my problem.

im just letting you know. you are doing it wrong when you look at fiat.

if you are buying btc or ltc or eth with usd and trading against the dollar value then yes pay attention to the dollar value.

but 99.99999999999% of shitcoins you arent trading a dollar for one shitcoin. you are trading a sat for a shitcoin.

Are you going to pay in store with your gwei Mr Brainlet? Losing value relative to your benchmark coin =/= losing real money. The only thing you're losing are POTENTIAL gains. Your fucking fiat value is what you put in at the beginning and what you are going to take out.

irrelevant
if your BTC goes up your USD does too
this is just retard traders making bad calls and falling back on the "well I still have more money" even though they would've made far more if they just bought BTC and held

this kind of market is obviously unsustainable and traders like this are going to get fucked hard for their egos when it comes down

Do you have any sources on this? I'm not talking shit, I have no reason to not believe you and you may be totally correct. If you have an article or something for me to read while I poop and watch Litecoin's mini-crash I'd honestly very much appreciate it.

This

Are you a fucking brainlet?

>gained 10 while I posted this steaming pile of garbage

Well fuck

Thats not the point. Its like a Hollywood movie, making budget means shit since the studio could have invested in something else, or just let it sit in the bank. Only brainlets think a movie that breaks even is sucessful. You have to exceed it worth relative to BTC, otherwise it would have been smarter just to hodl BTC and ignore the shitcoin entirely.

So you're essentially weighing the (assumed) profits from your dogecoin/etc. vs the profits you would have had from Bitcoin during that same period. The opportunity cost I guess

>the world revolves around USD
oh boy

i dont have sources because its just math.

go back and read and really read it. think about what i am saying. its a foreign concept i know. we are so use to trading in dollars for everything so we fall back on what we know.

the name of the game is to aquire more btc, eth, ltc, or whatever your favorite trading pair is on whatever exchange you like.

the moral of the story with it on scenario two is you would have 20 cents instead of 10 cents if you just held the btc or eth or whatever.

Pretty sure the usd doesn't hold value

Can someone tell me what to do? From June to September I daytraded alts and went from .5 BTC to 4 BTC. But then for some retarded reason I decided to go all in alts and stopped daytrading and just held them. THat was a terrible decision and now I'm down to 0.9 BTC.

Do I cut my losses and sell my alts to get into BTC? Or wait for alts to come back up which might take a year?

I'm a fucking normie, what should I use to trade? Coinbase reeks like a dead rat, and I want to trade quickly

There's one last event that can kill alt which is December 18th.
Once you live past that, alt will come back next spring. So just hold
You are close to selling at the bottom if you sell now.

Only fucking normies measure their gains in USD. If you have a chicken's brain you'd realize that satoshis is what really matters, otherwise you're constantly losing money even when you're up in FIAT

Lt's say you buy 1 BTC for 10k and then you buy some shitcoins (which also increase in value). After a week you have 12k, so you say: ohh sht I made 2k, right? WRONG. you lost 3k because BTC is now worth 15k. You started with 1 BTC and now you only have 0,7 BTC (Not exactly this much, but you get the point), you would have more USD if you had more satoshis or even the same amount that you had when you started

Also the app doesn't let me trade between cryptos

Coinbase is for normal people.
You want to trade on polonix, bittrex, finex if you want to trade between cryptos

You deserve to be a poorfag. I see a McDonald's paycheck in your near future.

user, imagine if you just HODLed?

>
>Satoshi value, or value in BTC. That is all that matters.
You're an idiot. Until you can pay your bills and Bitcoin can be used to put food on the table the amount of satoshis doesn't matter. It's all about how much usd you have. Bitcoin isn't a currency and won't be so why compare it to that? We don't compare our investment gains to how many ounces of gold we have or how many houses we can buy. It's how many dollars you have until there is a major shift.

What is happening then? I haven't been paying attention at all.

alright. your right user.

hey lets play a game.

here is my btc wallet.

12ipiq7QReooAqdofVwvn81BVSFBPB1s6p

why dont you send me 1btc. ill send you back .75

that way next week when btc is worth over 20k and that .75 is worth 19k you can tell your normie friends about all the money you made trading crypto.

keep buying high and selling low

Are you too retarded to realize the higher the BTC value the higher the USD value? Durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

>
>bro its cool. trade how you want. I dont care. Not my money not my problem.
>im just letting you know. you are doing it wrong when you look at fiat.
>if you are buying btc or ltc or eth with usd and trading against the dollar value then yes pay attention to the dollar value.
>but 99.99999999999% of shitcoins you arent trading a dollar for one shitcoin. you are trading a sat for a shitcoin.
You are when you cash it out. At some point you are going to take your profit and put it in your bank. That's fiat. And that's all that matters? Sure the Satoshi value could drop as Bitcoin rises but that doesn't mean you're losing money. I only care about the final value that hits my checking account.

> these 2-digit iq normies, ffs

>Until you can pay your bills and Bitcoin can be used to put food on the table
You can though. Unless you live in a 3rd world shithole. People can already pay rent/bills/buy food with bitcoin with various sites.

Yeah I'm moving my coins off the exchanges and into wallets to resist the urge to daytrade. I'd be up way more if I just didn't do shit.

But yeah fiat is all I fucking care about. Crypto/blockchain tech will eventually change the world but it's never going to replace fiat completely. I don't "believe" in bitcoin and I'm not an ancap crypto larper I'm here purely to multiply my USD.

> (You)
>Are you too retarded to realize the higher the BTC value the higher the USD value? Durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
A lot of people in here aren't trading Bitcoin and don't care to own any BTC. I'm talking about pegging alts to btc. If I put in 1k usd into crypto and I can take out 2k in USD, I've made money. There's no way around it. Even if I exit with less satoshis then when I started. The down syndrome is strong in here with these Bitcoin maximalists.

> (You)
>>Until you can pay your bills and Bitcoin can be used to put food on the table
>You can though. Unless you live in a 3rd world shithole. People can already pay rent/bills/buy food with bitcoin with various sites.
Do tell me where I can buy food and pay my bills using Bitcoin. I live in the USA.

>I operate in a real world, not a crypto world, therefore USD has more value to me
Jesus Christ, is it even possible to be more of a brainlet. user literally spelled it out as simple as possible for you.

Don't be a retard.
Literally one google away.
Google "How to pay my electric bills with bitcoin"

it
doesnt
matter

it doesnt.

here ill change the rest of this conversation to trading in gwei now.

if you bought something for 60000 gwei and sold it for 40000 gwei. you just lost ether.

if you bought 100 iota for 1 eth and then sold those iota for .75 eth you still lost eth. and guess what. it doesnt matter if ether is worth 100 bucks or 1000 bucks, 1>.75

>All these wannabes who watched Walk Street once and now think theyre Gekko for making 100 bucks

You fucking faggots saying USD isnt a factor are retarded

Youre saying any unearned profits are losses

> literal constant mistakes
> still up +120%
Finally some one spoke the truth.

>doesnt think losing .25 ether in a trade is a loss

kek

this is how i know there is still money to be made in crypto.

or you could've made $3000 by just keeping it in btc lmao you're a fucking retard

That's exactly the point. If your "trading" in shitcoins only makes your total profits smaller then there's no reason to do it at all. Just put it in something stable and hodl.

If you don't trade with profit measured in Bitcoin, you're just losing compared to just holding Bitcoin. Only reason to continue trading is if you can actually beat the holders.

Sure losing like that would look like a loss to anyone with 2 brain cells to run together, but making the argument for sats (if anyone knows a better term for this let me know, I want to do some research) because there's always another opportunity for profit is silly, you have to cash out at some point, at least for the time being

You can compare it to any crypto but BTC is the one most used as its the one everyone knows and uses.

In this bullmarket you think you're smart if you earn $, but who really cares if literally any fucking coin you throw money at gives you $?

What matters is Satoshi in this market, not the dollar. Pretty much EVERY Fucking coin loses value in BTC if you are trading. Every single one.

What you want is to maximize BTC instead of $ because comparing to $ you already win anyway. It's a really hard game to get more BTC as everyone wants your BTC, no one gives a shit about your $

sats is the smallest unit of bitcoin .00000001

1000 sats is .00001000

gwei is the same thing but for ethereum

1000 gwei is .00001000 ether

litecoin is called something most likely. but no one gives a fuck about it. charlie lee is a faggot. he just cloned btc and thinks he did it better but no one uses his shitty blockchain so of course its faster.

the only other pairing i really know of is doge. but those markets even have less liquidity.

it doesnt matter which one you trade with if you buy something at 2 sats/gwei/doge/fuck charlie lee, and sell it for 1 sat/gwei/doge/litecoinigger you lost fucking money compared to just holding.

Also cashing out. What coin do you think is the best cashout coin? The one that every USD crypto exchange accepts? Oh yeah, BTC.

Let's say you buy Shitcoin for 0.002 BTC, then you're like "OMG I EARNED $100 ON THIS COIN, I AM GENIUS HEHEHE"

Then you want to cash out, but oh no, your coin isn't on any USD exchange. So you change it to BTC first, and it turns out you return it for 0.000005 BTC

Are you still mr. genius? Fucking dumbass.

Anybody reading, tell me if I've got the gist of it.
If you buy one BTC right now at 16k USD and sell it when it reaches 20k, you would NOT have gained 4k USD because that same BTC would be worth more tomorrow? Is that correct?

>implying btc won't crash soon and I'll be max comfy on my fiat stack

LOL

I dont think this is correct, but im a filthy fucking normie, and i want to learn

you are correct. you are playing the usd market

the usd/btc pair

you bought low and sold high.

you cant buy vertcoin or chainlink for usd on any exchange. you have to trade btc. you arent playing the vtc/usd pair or the link/usd pair. you are trading the btc/vtc pair and the link/btc pair I dont know how much more clearer i have to get.

I feel I fucked up a few times and new to this. Still up $400 after a couple of weeks.

I see, so in principle, you have removed yourself from USD and rely only on BTC because all the other coins all fall down on BTC. Got it.

>Being this new

Please be a LARP. Lurk more before posting faggot, everyone here is going to feed you bullshit and disinfo unless you drop that fucking plebbit speech.

Have fun trading for BTC when BCH takes over and Roger Ver rapes your unborn daughters.

it isn't
>be me
>Buy on MT Gox
>forget i even own it
>reminded by reading about surge in BTC price on some blog
>forgot password
>never mind its the same password i use for everything for the past 2 years
>day trade 4 BTC into 1.5 BTC
>nevermind whole fucking exchange is gone along with my BTC cuz MT Gox
>Buy on Coinbase at 700
>oh shit price dropping sell it all at 600 there goes 2k
>buy back again at 500
>50 BTC for the win baby
>day trade on Crypsy
>lose 2k cuz cryptsy
>lose another 1k on Mintsy or whatever the name was
>don;t even trade any more lose lose lose
>for years as price drops to 230
>winter 2015 Oh shit!! price is almost to where i bought it at
>sell ~40 BTC at 450
>keep about 10 on coinbase
>keep about 4 on BTCe
>price keeps gong up1! Why did i sell
>lose 8k on BTCe cuz BTCe is shut down
>holy shit my coinbase is worrth50K
>Holy holy shit i get 55% of my BTCe which at that point is worth more then the 8K i lost
>today holy shit I am worth a quarter of million dollars
Lulz
It is all true user.
The crytpo revolution is rewarding dipshits and fuckups with lamboland

its because you most likely did fuck up and lost the from the original btc you were trading with. the only reason you are up usd is because btc is worth more so your fractions are worth more then the original whole. if btc corrects back to $100 and you are left holding .75 instead of your original 1 you would have $75.

I swear to god the public education system has failed.

I bought XEMs high because I thought it was going to moon

I compare them all to each other with a weighting towards the stronger coins and more emphasis on the rates of change of value between them.

So what everyone is saying is hold forever? if everything is always a loss against btc then why even sell anything ever?

im clearly missing something

because if you buy something at 5000 sats and it shoots to 10000 sats you just doubled your bitcoin. usd didnt matter there did it.

but you're still making profit, even if it isn't as much as you'd get if you held BTC, it's still profit. and there are exchanges that let you cash out from an alt straight to USD, like Poloniex

I'm still a nocoiner, I was planning on going 30% BTC, 30% ETH, 20% XMR, 20% LTC, was thinking of perhaps swapping it to 10% XMR, 30% LTC with the recent trend. Still waiting for my hard wallet to arrive before going in with a few grand.

The mental gymnastics of you morons is incredible. You literally think every dollar you don't earn is the same as one you lost? So if I put $1000 in and take $2000 out a week later I am a loser if there was any superior investment? By your logic every single stock is a failure except whichever one goes up the absolute most because you could have had that one instead. It's like you autists opened an Econ text book just long enough to misinterpret the definition of opportunity cost.

But thats not a loss against bitcoin, and its also just doubled in usd as well, i dont see your point

you made profit because you were playing the usd pair on normiebase. yes if you bought btc at 15k and sold for 18k you made 3k yes. you are correct. you will make money to feed family.

show me a request/usd pair. dont worry ill wait.
show me a bitbean/usd pair. dont worry ill wait.
show me a chainlink/usd pair. dont worry ill wait.

ill tell you the pairs youll find. btc and eth. maybe usdt which yes user in that case you have won and you b ought low and sold high.

By the way, is that a good spread? 30% BTC, 30% ETH, 20% XMR, 20% LTC?

thats about as basic low risk you can get in crypto.

yeah thats fine. id drop the ltc for shitcoins though

I'm not looking to go really risky, although I could afford it. I think with the performance of LTC or the last month of BTC, I could make some serious bank.
It would be my first time, so I want to dip my toes in.

im bullish with eth. id go 40% btc 40% eth 20% xmr for the comfy hold

>So if I put $1000 in and take $2000 out a week later I am a loser
No, you're a loser if you put $1000, start "trading" and come out with $1500 instead of $2000.
>It's like you autists opened an Econ text book
Doubtful you did considering you failed to comprehend the premise of a very simple discussion.

Why no LTC? Is it in light of recent events? I could have doubled my money in BTC had I just moved out prior to a dip.

Missed gains are not losses. If you beat yourself up every time you try and make a call on a shitcoin outperforming BTC and it doesn't you should just sell all your alts right now and unplug your computer.

Yeah, frequently it would be more profitable to hold BTC, but most of us don't want to merely double our money so we're willing to gamble losing double gains for a chance at getting 10 to 100x gains.

Doesn't always work out and I understand why someone might say 'lol just hold bitcoin', but you can't blame people for playing into a little risk.

I HATE NU BIZ
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH THESE COMMENTS AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH

because to me it is a pointless blockchain that offers nothing special over its competition. fuck even vert is going to have lightning network. btc has segregated witness. It cant run dapps and its not anonymous. it brings nothing to the table in this saturated market of shitcoins. the only reason it has any sort of value at this point is because coinbase decided to add them which had everything sketchy involved in that. its shit and charlie lee is just a copycat faggot.

>willing to gamble losing double gains for a chance at getting 10 to 100x gains
Might as well buy lottery tickets. Some safe manipulation is rational, constantly wishing upon a star for literal memepump moon missions (like 90% of this board does, see OP) is just retardation.

I get all this but have trouble dealing with all the different fees for all the trading. bugs me.

Obviously you don't bet on random coins, you go for things you actually think have a realistic chance of one day dethroning the king.

Again, most times you will lose, but if you get lucky you'll be laughing hard at BTC hold cucks.

I'm not rich, so buying into BTC isn't going to be all that profitable. If holding BTC for the next year even merely quadruples my entry then it's really not a big deal. That's still play money that I probably didn't really _need_.

The only way in which this shit is worth it to me is if I get a literal moon mission, otherwise I'll just live a normal life either way.

Interesting, but wouldn't it be worth it to just get in for a couple of days? Like, its value increased so much just this week, is it that bad to shift over to LTC for one week, double your BTC, then move out?

>If holding BTC for the next year even merely quadruples my entry then it's really not a big deal.
How would that make you a cuck, that's amazing.

It's just memes user.

And 4x is nice but again, for my current portfolio (~$5k) it's really kind of insignificant in the long run. I'm willing to risk $15k for the chance of $50-100k.

It's like every short bus on Earth drove to Veeky Forums and dropped off all students onto this thread

Well, yeah at 5k but I don't think it's reasonable to project the long run onto that. Wageslave a bit to add more to that and then 4x will be a lot more than nice.
I thought you meant just any quadruple. I've yet to get in but it sounded crazy. But 4x sounds shit compared to 40x.
lol, why's that?

15k in the stock market will yield 100k in 10 years... you just have to be willing to neet it up long time

also bitcoin is finished. is you arent already rich just lol @ you

>I thought you meant just any quadruple.
? Does this not just mean 4x.

And yes I want to wage slave and pour paychecks into it but /nojob/ cos millennial slime.