Are mortals powerless and useless in Exalted?

Combat wise? yes

Politically/economically? no

Thos would be true if there weren't social charms. But there are, and the least of them reduce mortals to spineless sycophants. An Exalt could totally take over the Guild in an afternoon if it were worth their time.

There was a surgeon who removed his own appendix a day before it would have burst when he was the only physician out of the 12 people there. I think other people might have moved mirrors around at his instruction but the physician's hands were inside his own body.

No, he can't, because "the" Guild is a lie.

It's not a single organization, anymore than "the" US market is one organization.

Could an Exalt do it? Yeah, eventually, if he was lucky and strong enough, just like everything else an Exalt "could" do.

3e changed the difficulty ladder, by the way. Surgery like an appendectomy is difficulty 2 now.

Interesting. Although I heard someone mention that Mortals barely even work by the same system as Exalts at this point?

they don't get bonuses, their 1s penalize, and they get no reprieve of extra dice to throw at anything, leaving them with their stats and a fucking clenched prayer they'll get more than 2 successes ever.

It's it's own kind of game, definitely, but it's basically exalted without all the quality of life additives.

Not really?

Mortals are just Exalts without magic and worse healing, same as always.

It's clear that the difficulty ladder was written assuming heroic gameplay, but that still applies to mortals.

The fact that a numerical advantage is huge in the new combat engine means they're reasonably capable of taking on more threats than they could in 2e. (A real advantage; 5 individual heroic mortals is much stronger than 1000 scrubs in a battle group.)

>they don't get bonuses,
Uh? They get the same (non-magic) bonuses that anyone gets. Stunts are a free 2 dice for basically everything, for example.

>their 1s penalize
Okay, what the fuck are you talking about?

That's not a rule in Exalted period, let alone for mortals.

>5 are stronger than 1000

if you're comparing one of the 1000 to one of the five, sure, but BG traits really fucking sink it into characters who can't withdraw easily and don't have the charms to avoid how miserable fighting BGs can be.

So, in a perfect samurai drama fashion, they can dive in heroically, cleaving countless men, getting speared in the back here and there until they die kneeling and painted red, not really finishing the army off, but definitely denting the hell out of it.

>if you're comparing one of the 1000 to one of the five, sure, but BG traits really fucking sink it into characters who can't withdraw easily and don't have the charms to avoid how miserable fighting BGs can be.

No, this is actually something that's been run.

ONE elite heroic mortal vs. a Size 5 BG of typical troops has a reasonable chance of winning by rout.

Five would demolish it, probably even with a leader attached.

shit, we dynasty warriors now

At least in 2e, martial arts were another thing Mortals in Exalted were worse at than their real world counterparts.

Things real people could do like disarming an opponent were locked behind Essence walls and such.

What would be an alternative system to play mortals? In D&D, the characters seem almost too strong for mortals.

They were designed to be effective prayer battery so they're not useless. 100 mortals with AK47 could probably kill an Ess 2 Solar, that is if he doesn't social fu them.

Depends on the edition. I think cats were proven to be far stronger than the average person in either 2e or 3e.

Is this assuming the battlegroup has acommander? Because, unless we're talking about white room bullshit instead of actual play, a battlegroup definitely should have a commander, always. Well, maybe not a handful of thugs trying to beat and rob someone in a dark alley, though even then one thug bossing the others around would make sense. An army should always have a commander, though, and a competent one at that. The base stats of a battle-ready-soldier, bonuses from Size and additional bonus from the leader's command roll should be scary even to heroic mortals.

Physically? Yes. If you aren't a retarded mortal though, it's possible to match them in charisma and ingenuity, but you'll be playing the long game and nobody will wait for your squishy ass to invent nuclear fission when they can just get another exalt to whack things with a metal stick. Of course, this is assuming that you are an intelligent mortal, since as indicated, the average non-Exalt is an imbecile with horrifically low standards to begin with.

So not only are exalted better physically, Exalted mortals are so dumb that the fact they have the same minds might as well not come into play. Exigents are probably a more accurate comparison to the what most normal settings would call a "mortal" as far as capabilities go.

>powerless
Not really an extremely dedicated enlightened mortal can learn martial arts, thaumaturgy and sorcery.
They're not good by any means, but it's possible to be relevant if you try really goddamn hard and don't mind getting outshone by literally everything else that matters in setting.
However non enlightened mortals are nearly completely useless outside of the aformentioned filler classes.

There's also the matter of whether or not you can consider an enlightened human a mortal anymore, but that's besides the point.

Mutants and Masterminds.

If you want just mortals shackle them to maximum PL 5. If you want really heroic mortals remove PL limit but don't allow them to take powers that are not equipment based.

Eh, not always. See the Prefect of Paragon for an example of a mortal that's still large and in charge.

Here's the thing, what people always forget is that gods, demons, spirits, ghosts, and Exalts are all just as much people in their own way as mortals. Meaning they like cash and influence as much as anybody else. Mortals in the know with enough resources can bend the ear of God's. They might not be able to summon a storm themselves but if they want a hurricane to hit Coral they can buy it. Need a champion to scare some thugs into cooperation? You know who likes money? Exalts. Need a plague or love or seduction or crop yields or a blessing? It has a price tag. That's the great thing about Exalted. Everything has a price. If you can't do it your self you can finagle in somebody who can through manipulation, bribery, sex, or extortion, and really, in these cases, magical powers can still only help so much.

The Tri-Khan of Chiaroscuro is arguably an even better example, as he has no magical bullshit comparable to that of the Perfect at his disposal.

Are you talking about the current Tri-Khan, or the original Tri-Khan who founded Chiaroscuro? Cause the original was a Lunar in disguise.

How strong is Artifact N/A, is there any example and how to make them?

As strong as you want. An example is the Five-Metal Shrike, an invincible magical airship with a death ray. You make them with First Age bullshit and sucking off your ST.

>As strong as you want
Huh, did they just throw this shit around in the war against the Yozi?

Most of the really cool stuff was built afterwards when they had time and peace to sit down for decades and refine and purify everything to super awesome levels.

N/A level artefacts, moreso than other artefacts, have entire long term games built around them. Think of the One Ring from LotR or Numidium from TES.

There's a sidebar on how to make one in Wonders of the Lost Age (page 15), and has a number of N/A artefacts throughout, but none of which are personal size.

So is this new Exalted General?

Why would you want to play mortals?

to be a little more helpful, I am used to define 3 kinds of N/A Artifacts: the low N/A level - First Age battleships and other imbalanced stuff, the medium N/A level - Sword of Creation and similar setting defining Artifacts and finally what is even more N/A: Exaltations, the whole of Authochnia, etc.

Autists may now call me out on saying Exaltations are Artifacts.

They can also cal you out for saying that Authochnia is a single artefact an not, in fact, the world-body jotun of a Primordial.

The current one, one of the riches and most powerful rulers in the world.

>It's not a single organization
Then why are you holding it up as an example of mortal capability? No one said the were incapable of creating small regional powers.

It is neither a single organization nor a regional power. It is a network or an alliance of merchants and merchant organizations. It is a global institution with real power and influence, but not a centarlized organization and therefore not something that can be taken over like an organization.

I had some mortals gank an Infernal two sessions ago, and my Abyssals ST had one of the other PCs also ganked by mortals. Mortals can be threatening if the PC fucks up.

>Are mortals powerless and useless in Exalted?

No. They are exceedingly threatening to newbie players, or stupid players. Exalts die to mortals if the exalts don't know what they're doing - after all, perfect defenses won't save you if you elect not to use them.

I take it they weren't Dawn types, no? Hoe did that happen anyway?

You think only groups with centralized power structures can be taken over? The mortals who together comprise the Guild cannot, individually or as a group, physically or socially, do jack shit about even a single Exalted. They're vermin, and the only reason they remain independent is because their significance is limited to other mortals.

The Exalted who care about cash can make so much that they're beyond being bribed. Nothing you could offer them would increase their Wealth dots, so from their point of view they're being offered nothing at all. And a lot of them don't care about cash and would take offense to being bribed, so good luck with that.

Hegra scourge was trying to play damsel in distress and win over a bunch of soldiers through the power of tits (she had a Necklace of Solar Charisma).

Commander of the soldiers was not favorably inclined to this after having heard about what the scourge had previously been doing (drug orgies, that sort of thing), ordered soldiers to stab the demonwhore. About half of them refused and objected.

The other half began attacking: whiff, whiff, Scourge opts to not use her DV against what are surely pitiful mortals so she can look injured for more sympathy, ping for 0, ping for 1L... coordinated aimed attack, mortal hits with a bunch of threshold for 4L, shit, use DV again, other coordinated mortal hits for 4L.

In terms of canon fluff, that is factually incorrect, because the Guild has, for centuries, done jack shit about the Exalted. Their significance is in no way limited to other mortals, as the economic power of the Guild can affect nations, including ones ruled by the Dragon-Blooded, and even the affairs of the Realm to some extent. Imean, fuck, have you ever even read the Manacle and Coin, or maybe Masters of Jade?

What I've read is the 2nd and 3rd edition rules, and in both of those there's not a ton that mortals or social groups of mortals can do, even with a lot of Resources, to defend themselves against someone with the right charms. If fluffbooks treat mortals as anything more than dust in the wind, that's very generous of them.

Fluff is what defines the "reality" of the setting, such as it is. Rules are tools for players to use. Preferably they should be in line with the fluff, but if this is not the case, the fluff still describes how things actually work in the world. That said, if a Guild factor, say, doesn't directly negotiate with a known Exalt, instead sending an underling with certain strictly defined limits on what kinds of deals he can make, the ability of the Exalt to mess with the factor's head most certainly is restricted. Numbers matter, mercenaries matter, ability to prevent the import of food and other useful things into your country matters, ability to bribe, pressure or persuade other powers of the world to oppose you matters. Having intimacies matters in 3E. The fact that getting rid of one factor and maybe taking over Guild's operations in on region means taht the rest of the Guild will continue operating as usual, only know they view you as a threat, most definitely matters.

>reading the introduction to Manacle & Coin
>"Thank god the real world no longer has human trafficking or drug addiction anymore, amirite?"
>not sure if sarcastic or just stupid

>Having intimacies matters in 3E
It matter if you don't know any charms to get around it, of which there are many. Honestly, the stricter social influence rules in 3e only hobble the sort of characters they were intended to protect - mortals and people highly specialized in something non-social.

your own po as familiar?

You're own soul? It'd probably require some amount of sorcery and being alright with being a half-souled weirdo.

Would statements that are technically true but misleading be charisma or manipulation?
lies by omission, "jedi lies", etc

inside or outside your body?

The Prefect gets by through relying on an object created by his betters that none of those betters care enough about to take and controlling a small region they, again, don't care about.

If its a global institution, note that being singular, then exalts can interact with it as such and take it easily. If it's not a global institution and is instead a bunch of random fucks who consider each other allies, then it's not really a valid display.

you have no imagination

So like Youmu from Touhou?

links born of tumult. thats what you want. it'd fit even better if you somehow had it as a control spell.

Boys. Heaven's Reach makes mention to nanotechnology, but how is this applied in it? I can't picture a single usage of it in the setting.

Just take all the stuff where "motonics" or "magitech" was applied and replace it with "nanotechnology."

iirc theres a town where everybody is creepy because they're infested

>Original Tri-Khan was a Lunar
>Using 2e society lore

I would not advise it.

Femtotech, actually. It's six orders of magnitude smaller than nanotech, which is to say, one-millionth the size in each dimension.

Chaya

Anyone has the list of 1st circle demons? The main wiki is dead and the fanon one doesn't have much details on them, the ones in the CoCD Malfeas aren't enough and most of them are really disturbing to me.

cocd malfeas, exalted core, can't remember if the sorcery book had some, they're scattered through the books and theres less than you'd think.

do you just need names and descriptions? or stats?

Yeah.

>2e
Mortals are known to be a threat to Exalts in 2e. If you're not talking 2e then you're talking houserules and that's meaningless.

Planning to run a GSP for the first time, need a demon for coadjutor and some more to be minions/breeding stock/material, but most of them have the tendency to hunt and consume human flesh so I want to avoid that.

>most of them are really disturbing to me.
Then perhaps Exalted is not your game. I'd suggest playing pic related, it seems more your style.

Hello Strength of Many

They should be disturbing, I think that's the point. Also, most of the demons that aren't in CoCD: M are in Books of Sorcery 5 - Roll of Glorious Divinities II.

Coincidentally, that's also where the best girl is.

they don't do that if you tell them not to. and it's not *most* off the top of my head it's mostly just decanthropes, blood apes, those lantern things, and the tentacle deer.

most of exalted's demons aren't really "demonic" in the traditional ways, just weird

Look, I'm okay with the Neomah (though I don't have bald fetish), the always play music with long fingers, the wasp, the blood apes but this fuckshit is not okay
Thanks, wish that I don't have to search for a 1st circle from Malfeas to create a Slayer

>wish that I don't have to search for a 1st circle from Malfeas to create a Slayer

Yeah, the way exalted is published across 20 books that all say "see [other book here] for details" because they don't have room for a single paragraph, but contain multiple pages of meaningless snippets of comics is a bit bullshit. but far more bullshit is the way they left big holes in the setting and rules that have the balls to say "the fact you have to write this yourself makes it fun and mystical" rather than admit they just had holes and couldn't afford to hire the extra guy to fix it

God I want to damn my dick into that maw of its

Omf

>t. First Age Solar ghost

whats your favorite control spell

The Perfect - not Prefect - owns a very powerful magical artifact that a lot of Exalts absolutely would love to own and rules a very large and powerful vity-state that is one of the major powers of a Direction. Saying that his betters don't care about him, his scepter or his nation isn't even misinformation, it's an outright lie.

if you're intending to mislead I'd go with manipulation

Yes, that's the point. Without the Exalted, Creation is doomed. Mortals only matter so far in that the best of them may someday Exalt.

Can't do that? You're not worth shit.

to be fair it's also doomed as a direct result of those exalts, bit of a wash really

It's fully a matter of intent. Even white lies would be Charisma if the intent is honest

...

Death Beam

Failing that, Wood Dragon Claw for fluffing my bodily odor as attacks.

>Are mortals powerless and useless in Exalted?

Standard mortals are useful statistically, but individually powerless.

Heroic Mortals have all the same plot influence as Exalts, except without the magic backing them up. They're more powerful and useful than most minor gods and elementals.

How do I break the game by mass training tons of mortals into kung fu master heroic mortals? Which charms and resources do I need?

2e: Tiger Warrior Training Technique and that Lore charm that allows you awaken a person's essence.

3e: Ha ha, good luck buddy.

>「Me, Myself, and I」

Acceptable, however

>「Dancing with Myself」

Hits better notes IMO.

so malfeas or....who're you favoring? and which urge?

they each only have like 2 demons that ever got any official writeup, so you're not looking at a lot of choices, sadly.

also are you planning on taking any coadjutor mutations?

>tumblr
fuck off

>Slayer
was supposed to reply to that other one where he said slayer

It's just a google image search result. I could have renamed the file if I had any interest in doing so.