Are space marines good people? Do they fight to protect the innocent?

Are space marines good people? Do they fight to protect the innocent?

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This is 40k we're talking about here. Every group in the setting is evil from any perspective outside the setting. Space marines could be eviler, sure.

Depends. Differs chapter to chapter and person to person. Most I like to think are good if not strange people.

That depends too. Some chapters care about locals, others could give a fuck less.

Would you call something that would kill a child without a single qualm a good person?

Depends on the Chapter, but as a general rule, they care about the Imperium more then the average person.

They'll fight to save the most lives they can, no matter what kind of fucked up shit they have to do to do it, and they live in a setting where acceptable causalities can include entire planets.

And that's mostly universal of Space Marines. They'll shoot you without a second thought if its necessary to protect the Imperium of Man. I suppose what you're actually asking if "If I walked up to one, would he be nice to me?"

And to that, the answer is proooobably. Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Ultramarines especially, would all likely not be a dick if you went up and said hi, as long as they weren't dealing with something more important.

But seriously they would kill you without even thinking about it first if they thought it was good for the Imperium.

The child was obviously a heretic and therefore deserved it.

This. On one hand you have the Lamenters and Salamanders and such, going all the way across the spectrum to the fucking Minotaurs and Marines Malevolent.

Of course, regardless of how nice to the common man they are, or pragmatic, or humble, ALL space marines will not hesitate to bitch-slap a heretic's neck 360 degrees, or feed an ork their own fucking power klaw.

>Are space marines good people?
No.

>Do they fight to protect the innocent?
Sometimes.

The Iron Hands used to be on the asshole spectrum until their assholish ways caught up to them. They're somewhat nicer now.
The Crimson Fists too.

There was a Chaos Legion that also somewhat cared for their serfs. I think it was the Night Lords.

>Use the most destructive weapons
>look scarier than the raven guard
>actually the most friendly of marines

space marines are as diverse as the imperium depends

>are they good people?
it depends heavily on the individual in question and what chapter hey belong too, the marines malevolent are unlikely to have very "good" members, while even ultramarines and salamanders might have their share of jackasses

>do they fight to protect the innocent
this once again depends heavily on the chapter, and whoever is leading the mission, the salamanders are well known for protecting civilians as their primary objective, and the crimson fists once went out of their way to protect some. the space wolves generally wont on their own initiative, but their chapter master logann grimmnar would definitely think it over. other chapters might have a mix of compassionate captains and sgt slaughters, since both the individual space marine and their upbringing in the chapter are surprisingly influential to their development

>Are space marines good people?
No, they're weapons built from broken people. Some can be nice weapons built from broken people at times.
>Do they fight to protect the innocent?
In a roundabout way. Some more directly, others might as well be the enemy on a bad day.

Someone post the prolouge to Damnation Crusade

A lot of people seem to be making some broad assertions here. Yes, all space marines are stone cold killers, and they're more or less forced to operate under what is overall a horrible regime.

But the main idea behind space marines is "your dudes". If you want your space marines to be the type of warriors who'd pick up a eight year old girl and carry them out of a hellhole warzone while mowing down 'Nids at the same time then go for it. If you want them to have a policy of minimum collateral damage and have them help rebuilt stable worlds in their wake, you can do it.

Or if you want them to be psychotic assholes are just no-fucks-given badasses you can do that too. 40k only operates meaningfully on the small scale. Acts of great heroism or villainy will never accomplish much in the face of the status quo, but what matters is that YOUR DUDES did some awesome shit, whatever that may be, good or bad.

This is the correct answer.
Space Marines are victims. They're children forced to become weapons before they even know what they're losing out on. Most of them die horrible, agonizing deaths.
They talk a lot about glory, but they're just as likely to die to a random melta shot or a fragged transport as they are making a gallant last stand.
Some of them recognize their own monstrosity and inflict it on those around them, regardless of whether they stay loyal to the Emperor. Others cling to the hope that they can save innocent lives, but ultimately they're still part of the same damned, dying machine as the rest of the Imperium.

Not unless they are salamanders.

>Night Lords

Fuck that, they were unabashed psychopaths even before the Heresy. One even admitted they were murderous, cold-blooded terrorists and said empire-building was for Ultramarines.

They all basically lived by that "You must make a friend of horror" line from Apocalypse Now. They probably didn't just kill their serfs willy nilly but you can bet it was horrifying when they did.

>good
>people

No, it's all Chapters. During the Great Crusade the Salamanders, under Vulkan's orders, killed an entire population of humans, including the children, because their parents were saved by Eldar from Dark Eldar and were living with their liberators.

That's right, the goody-two-shoes Primarch killed children for the simple crime of living with xenos who saved them from a life of slavery and torture.

>still kill children indiscriminately for the sins of their parents

+++ THOUGHT OF THE DAY ++ THERE IS NO INNOCENCE, ONLY DEGREES OF GUILT +++

+++ PS IM LOOKING AT YOU, JERRY +++
+++DONT EAT MY FUCKING SANDWICHES++

What chapter is that? He wears the iconography of the Salamanders but he's not charcoal black.

Thing is, you could assume that it was an Eldar plot to eventually turn them into a meat shield against X, Y and/or Z threats which would lead to millions more dead humans in exchange for saving a handful of Eldar lives.

And you know what? You'd have a better than 50/50 chance of being right.

Not defending it or anything, Space Marines aren't "good" people as a group. Maaaaybe Celestial Lions were collectively good, by and large?

It all depends on the Chapter.

Salamanders, Blood Angels (sane), & post-Heresy Space Wolves are pretty bro tier

Ultramarines/Imperial Fists/White Scars/etc. will generally do the right thing

Marines Malevolent, Iron Hands, Dark Angels, and all CSM will fuck your day up.

It wasn't that though. Vulkan got triggered by them allying and defending Eldar, despite them not being the Dark Eldar.

Unsurprisingly the whole book was retarded, like everything involving the Salamanders in the Black Library.

They are as good a person as can be in the setting, all things considered. Remember that this is the sort that willingly underwent grueling, inhumane training only to undergo largely fatal geneseed implant surgery for the chance to exist as a space marine to defend the Imperium of Man. They already exist as beacons of self sacrifice being what they are. Given, they can be flawed in many ways. Black Templars are not by any stretch paladins of good and justice, and yet they spend every waking moment of their time killing the endless threats to mankind without expecting any reward beyond still more hordes to fight and a bloody end.

They'll give ol' emps everything in the end, because they believe in his love of mankind. Isn't that good enough?

I've not read that book, so I can't speak on the skill at which that was portrayed, but as it stands I'm going to choose to disregard that as anti-Salamander propaganda. By who, I don't know, but Vulkan committing full, no-holds-barred genocide for something so stupid flies in the face of the entire Salamander's philosophy. I appreciate this is 40k, and you can have the good guys get shit on to Lamenters levels and beyond, I don't give a shit. But when you throw in "oh yeah these usual good guys, already a rarity in this setting, are now psychos as well. GRIMDARK AMIRITE???" no fuck that, it's sacrificing variety for the sae of grimderp bullshit.

Define "Innocent"

Space Marines are not feudal fantasy knights, they were not made or sworn to protect the innocent or weak.

They exist to kill the Xeno, the Heretic.

Let the local law enforcement protect the innocent, Space Marines have 10ft tall Orks to kill.

You know that Vulkan has an extreme HATE of Eldar, right?

I've not read the book user is talking about, but it makes sense to me.

Iron Hands are still assholes. They were aloof and cold assholes, now they're unabashed raging assholes. Still not as bad as their best successor chapter though.

user left out that the Emperor LITERALLY told him to do it,

A remembrancer that turns out to be the Emperor in disguise is the one who guides Vulkan to the settlement and tells him to purge.

People interpret it as the Emperor trying to break Vulkan's soft side and turn him into a killer.

Even the best of space marines are like this. Nice guys but very little sense of what is right/wrong/appropriate to say to a little girl.

>I think it was the Night Lords.

Lol, Night Lords are the absolute worst to their servants after the Emperor's Children.

You're thinking of a single NL, Talos, from the books by ADB. And it's just because he loves humanizing CSM.

>Space Marines, no sense of right or wrong!
Now I'm thinking of the Wizard's Shotgun meme.

I want a Terminator plushie suddenly.

>innocent

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt. A plea for innocence is merely guilt, guilt for wasting time.

Oh wait I have in fact heard of this. Yeah I'm chocking it up to the Emperor being an asshole once again.

The way I see it, space marines can ONLY be killers. As in, there are so few space marines in a given chapter that "defence" isn't really in the playbook. Even defense-themed chapters like the Fists just don't have the sheer numbers needed to man and maintain all the workings of a stable empire. They need to set up, build up, make sure the locals can maintain shit when they leave, and then leave to kill more shit. The space marines are a focused force.

However what it comes down to is WHY they kill. Do they kill primarily to, A: to protect the Emperor's people, or B: slay the Emperor's foes.

A chapter that subscribes more to A might put more effort into slowing the enemy before the final blow, giving themselves time to save civilians and minimize collateral. A chapter that subscribes more to B will likely expend all effort on killing the enemy as quickly and brutally as possible, collateral or other factors be damned.

>Read "Visitors" comic. It sums up pretty well what normal people think of space marines.

funnyjunk.com/channel/warhammer40k/Wh40k comic damnation crusade 1/ikfbLvx/

Theres a couple books about the Ithica Iron Snakes, theyre really decent people, protagonist marine even almost falls for the human girl hes protecting.

>kill you without thinking about it
>if they thought about it

Well done

Well, I dunno, but I think space marine is a pretty cool guy. He kills heretics and doesn't afraid of anything

No, they fight because fighting is right

I wouldn't say this, the imperium does bad things but their ideals very noble and good

>Are space marines good people?

No. They're genocidal murderers working for the most pointlessly brutal regime imaginable.

>Do they fight to protect the innocent?

Sometimes. This is often purely incidental to the act of killing the heretic or the xeno, however. Some chapters, like the Lamenters, the Celestial Lions, or the Salamanders might be more sympathetic to the innocent, but this doesn't really counter balance the fact that they're willing to kill entire worlds for being slightly genetically different from the norm. The Waffen SS defended a lot of people from crazy Russians during the latter part of WWII, but that doesn't make them good people, because they were more than willing to do worse to others.

>the most pointlessly brutal regime imaginable

Them sounds like the words of a heretic

They're better than whatever they're fighting.

For it to be genocide you first have to consider mutants and xenos people.

Its "Couldnt give a fuck" saying "could give a fuck" means they did care about it. Its the opposite of what you are trying to say.

No
No

I mean, if you want to call GW heretics.

Me too user.

Space Marines in general think of themselves as protectors of the Imperium and its people. They would not hesitate to kill innocents if it meant preventing a greater evil, but they ARE genuinely trying to help protect humanity.

Theirs should be less a naive heroism and more a grim, calculating pragmatism that values human survival above all else.

Frankly, GW is wrong. The Imperium's brutality is mitigated by the fact that the forces they are fighting are REAL. Tyranids are real. Necrons are real. Chaos is real.

If the Imperium's antagonists were all fabricated, THEN it would be the most pointlessly brutal regime imaginable, but as it stands they actually seem pretty well justified in their actions. If I lived in a universe where naughty thoughts could summon demons, I'd be so zealous I'd make Mike Pence look like Anderson Cooper.

So they would rather die to xenos freaks than to have their world devasted but secure?

Serves them right.

To sum it up.

They generally *try* to.

They wear skulls user

>‘You do not just mean forming a new warband. You mean a new Legion. A new war.’

>His gaze never left mine. I felt it holding my eyes to his, felt the ambitious heat of fevered thoughts.

>‘A new war,’ he agreed. ‘The real war. We were born for battle, Khayon. We were made to conquer the galaxy, not to rot here in Hell and die upon our brothers’ blades. Who are the architects of the Imperium? Who fought to purge its territory of aliens and expand its borders? Who brought rebellious worlds to heel and slaughtered those who refused the light of progress? Who walked from one side of the galaxy to the other, marking their passage in a trail of traitorous dead? This is our Imperium. Built across the worlds we burned, over bones we broke, with the blood we shed.’

>What stunned me most was not his passion, nor even his ambition, though both were breathtaking in their scope. No, what stunned me more than anything else was his motive. I had expected a failure’s bitterness, not a champion’s idealism. He did not want vengeance, whether it was petty or ultimately justified. He wanted what was ours by right. He wanted to shape the Imperium’s future.

>‘You see it, too,’ he said, baring his teeth in a snarling grin. Like the rest of the Justaerin, his teeth were engraved with Cthonian runes of fortitude and resolve. They seemed very apt all of a sudden, in the smile of a pilgrim returning to his people to become a crusader. ‘You feel it now, don’t you?’

>‘A new war,’ I said slowly, softly. ‘One not born of bitterness nor founded on revenge.’

>Abaddon nodded. ‘The Long War, Khayon. The Long War. Not a petty rebellion swallowed by Horus’s pride and his hunger for the Terran Throne. A war for the future of mankind. Horus would have sold the species to the Pantheon for the chance to sit on the Golden Throne for a single heartbeat. We cannot allow ourselves to be used the way he was. The Powers exist and we can’t pretend otherwise, but nor can we allow a sacred duty to devolve into such weakness, as Horus did.’

-Talon of Horus

This needed to be posted.

To answer OP's question. No, loyalist marines are not the good guys. They are supporting a bloody and opressive mad regime that's leading humanity towards destruction.

Abaddon and the Black Legion are working towards the salvation of mankind. Working towards a future where humanity is free from slavery to false uncaring gods. A few eggs might be broken on the way there but what they ultimately seek makes them good guys.

T. Heretic Harry

I think it's just that they had what we refer to as a "Moment of Clarity".

Prior to that conflict, they had no idea that the universe could be so brutal. They lived, worked their farms, sang the praises of the Emperor and died, like good citizens. But then, the Orks came and shattered that naivety. Then the Black Templar came and took what little was left and smashed it into dust.

It's not that they weren't thankful. It's not that they didn't praise the Emperor for delivering salvation unto them. It's just that they finally realized just has most their world really was.

>Abbadon dindu nuffin

jesus christ what a load of shit.

Abbadon never cared about Humanity, all he cared about was living up to his daddy Horus, and didn't give one shit whom he killed to get there.

>Do they fight to protect the innocent?

Yes. They haven't found any, yet, but the search continues one purge at a time.

>AD "Chaosaboo" B

Sasuga cuckmaster.

Lies.

ADB says that Abaddon doesn't want to destroy humanity or the Imperium. He wants to save it and rule it as its Dark Emperor. The Imperium would be reborn into the Dark Imperium under him.

Abaddon never any any period of the fluff cared about Horus in any way other than washing away his failure and taking revenge for the humiliation that his weakness caused.

...so what the hell is Abaddon after, a personal system where he can spend his elder days getting a pension for 10k of service years?

Chaos Gods care, that's why they keep giving buffs to true servants. Even the Emperor apparently sometimes hands out favours. The gods feed on emotions and sometimes grant favours; they are anything but uncaring. They have very much invested in the continued existence of the Imperium.

as for spesch mehreens being good; every heart is capable of both and good and evil, what matters is which triumphs in the everyday actions.
you could even claim that the 10000 years of war against Traitor Legions has kept the Empire in a state of vigilance, helping them prepare against the Nids and Necrons.

>They have very much invested in the continued existence of the Imperium.

No, they are not. Abaddon and the Chaos Gods have a point of contention. The Chaos Gods desire the destruction of the Imperium and the consumption of the whole galaxy. This kills humanity.

Abaddon seeks to conquer the Imperium and transform it into his Dark Imperium. At this point he would be powerful enough to not need the Chaos Gods anymore.

The Weeping Girl says that Abaddon will be destroyed by the gods for his impending betrayal. They allow him to work for them because he is the only one who can get the job done.

As for the Emperor, he can not see another way for humanity other than what he designed. He cares not how much humanity suffers as long as they survive even for a moment. This is not caring. His way of doing things has led to massive anguish for mankind and it's a failing endeavor. He must be cast down.

AIDS Bee can say whatever he wants, it doesn't change the fact he's talking out of his Chaos dickriding ass.

And it doesn't change the fact that he is in charge of the characterization of Abaddon and the Black Legion.

Chaos Gods feed on the Imperium, gorging on human emotions. They have no desire to wipe them out, just often they just want to taste blood too because fear and despair beat the normal diet consisting of everyday emotions.

As for Emperor caring, it is unknown simply because he has been half-dead for 10k years. If he had never cared, he would not have launched the Great Crusade.

>Chaos Gods feed on the Imperium, gorging on human emotions. They have no desire to wipe them out, just often they just want to taste blood too because fear and despair beat the normal diet consisting of everyday emotions.

That's wrong.

The fluff says that they want humanity destroyed.

There's a very big difference between mutants and abhumans, user.

heresy

they merely punch at mankind and then get satisfaction from the emotional responses
why kill a milkcow?

they probably want to kill the emperor one way or another, they hate rivals as usual, but mankind without emprah poses no risks to them, whereas they benefit from human worshippers.

The rulebook states that if the Emperor fails and Chaos wins then Chaos will flood the galaxy and consume every single human in the galaxy to the last women, man, and child.

Then they will proceed to extinguish all forms of life. After that they will destroy time and space replacing it with eternal Chaos.

Chaos hates life and reality this much.

I think that's supposed to be the irony of the Imperium. They are claiming to be the good guys in the whole situation but they commit some pretty atrocious and evil acts themselves.

Imperial propaganda

the Big4 hate Emprah, and mostly do shit just for fun&stuff. They feed on emotions and are growing stronger thanks to mankind providing ample source of fodder.

The only faction that possesses a considerable amount of morality and actually punish war crimes is the Tau.

Heck, in a recent story, a Stormsurge pilot sacrificed himself to save the lives of fleeing humans civies who were being bombarded by the IG who were suppose to protect them. Tell me of another faction that values life as much as the Tau, even if it was alien life.
?

What's with the 'even if they kill a child' meme? Is this in some new fluff?

Can you kill a child and still be good?
Gygax certainly thought so.

"Paladins are not stupid, and in general there is no rule of Lawful Good against killing enemies. The old adage about nits making lice applies"

Space marines have aristocratic morality, in the best case this is chivalry, in the worst, they are possessive and seek to punish absolutely any flaw in the peasantry.

>very noble and good
>very noble and good being "anything and everything that forwards humanity, at any cost"

This

You analogy falls short because Hitler did nothing wrong

I get what you mean, but Hitler did loads of tactical and strategical errors that ended with him losing the war. The Austrian corporal should have left war stratagems to his generals, but instead his interventions ended up fucking a lot of shit up.

True, he did that wrong

>IoM
>innocence

>Are scape marines good people
Fuck No
>Do they fight to protect Civilians?
Unless you are the Salamanders or the Lamenters, again fuck no

Naughty thoughts don't summon demons. Evil rituals that require intense study to master and conscious effort perform and maintain summons demons. Or being a psyker and having any thoughts or none at all. Either way, not naughty thoughts. The threats the Imperium faces are real, but the brutal measures they take in response to them are often completely detached from anything that would actually effectively fight them.

YESSSSSSSSSSSS

>Dark Angels
And they actually defended Piscina IV.

INNOCENCE PROVES NOTHING

Im imagining two imperial propaganda guys having an argument via the city wide propaganda screens thinking they are on personal chat.

This image is even better if you imagine the Terminators voice having the same Vox caster tone as they do in the Dawn of War games.

>good people
Do they have free will to be considered good? that's like saying a computer program is good.

This

Will there be ever a trully virtuous person in 40K? someone really good, someone who his only path in life is righteousness and justice, someone who's never wrong, who puts the lifes of innocents nomatter the race or belief above anything?, a fucking Kamen Rider if you will?

That's why he tortures, maims and kill billions innocents

Breaking a few eggs.

So no good then, glad we agree.

mother of all omelettes

This is stupid. I know Abandon himself doesnt care about the chaos gods but he overthrows the Emperor and what? Convinces the rest of humanity not to succumb to chaos urges?

What the fuck is he going to do when the Eye consumes the galaxy and deamons can come and go as they wish?

Is he going to spend the next 10k years fighting chaos without its gifts and without the light of the emperor? Who among Chaos is not seduced by it? Im being charitable if I give you the Black Legion and the Night Lords but even the Night Lords are barely functional.

What is the idiot's end game in this scenario? He wants to stamp out the last campfire and fight everything in the dark because of "principles".