What are your thoughts on the Hive from Destiny...

What are your thoughts on the Hive from Destiny? At first looking at them I rolled my eyes at them being some vaguely insect like race that looked like Tyranids (and thought they would be just as lame) although, being the giant bundle of sticks that I am, I dug into the Book of Sorrows and found them vastly more interesting afterwards especially after learning about shit like the Sword Logic.

Also, for the sake of those who will ask how it's Veeky Forums related I feel the set up for Destiny would translate well to Table top

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>Also, for the sake of those who will ask how it's Veeky Forums related I feel the set up for Destiny would translate well to Table top

Fucking jesus, I'm all for lore threads on Veeky Forums but at least PRETEND you give a shit about keeping it on-topic.

I do believe it or not. I don't want to copy Destiny whole sale but there's plenty of shit from it I'd used for 5th ed now that I actually have a group. Once we get seasoned I want to run a setting similar to it.

So what makes THIS insect hivemind race different? Let me guess, bushido-like warrior culture where you keep what you kill.

I want to see ritualized mating combat. Like a mix of the thunderdome and stag beetles.

I guess they are insect like, I don't know what the call them. They have a concept called Sword Logic which basically says you get stronger by killing things and are working the scour the universe towards what they think is the perfect final form.

They used to be these small fish insect things that only lived for 10 years at most until the three sisters set out to avegne themselves. The act of doing so led them to giant worm gods that made one of them into main badguy Oryx and allowed them to get god like powers like creating alternate dimensions they can go do if they are physically killed and fuck space and time simply by killing .

Then again this topic was a mistake so I'll leave it at that.

They're literally generic "space zombies" that Bungie to patch later by adding a whole bunch of bullshit necromancy magic to. "Sword Logic" basically boils down to "I'm the strongest so I'm right, and my bullshit space magic makes that so true the laws of reality literally warp to accomodate that until something stronger kicks my ass."

Destiny is a fucking mess, and the """lore""" shows it. It's like they had 12 different writers all working on everything with no leadership or decision-maker keeping the visions unified so everything is a clusterfuck of randumbness that's gets explained away as "space magic".

>Sword Logic which basically says you get stronger by killing things
They collect experience points by killing stuff
>Sword Logic which basically says you get stronger by killing things
The covenant
>They used to be these small fish insect things
Hunters (the covenant)
>The act of doing so led them to giant worm gods
Precursors

Good job bungie

>god like powers like creating alternate dimensions they can go do if they are physically killed
This is the core conciet of "outsiders" in every D&D game ever. What I'm reading is that they're just D&D Devils, but they all look like bugs.

Alot of that is wrong, but I'm not even going to explain WHY it's wrong because the actual answers are literally even MORE retarded somehow. The quick version is less "collect experience points by killing stuff" and more "survival of the fittest taken to almost relegiously-insane levels and with evil magic involved". The Hive as a whole can be compared to a Crusade, except they're crusading that their form magic-induced undeath is the "final shape" of the universe and evolution in general. Unless something can actually defeat them as a whole, in which case some sort of bullshit Elder-Scrolls "mantling" thing is supposed to happen where the victor takes up the cause and gets the space magic for themselves.

So they're the the Sith from Star Wars. Evil because it grants them power? Wanting power because it's power? Believing anything weaker than them doesn't deserve to exist?

I am not OP and i was also thinking of using Destiny for a campaign setting.
I thought since its sci fantasty you could quite easily make it straight fantasty.
A god coming to earth to grant magic powers is petty cool. Then when evil follows to kill the god he turns tail and flees (like the bitch the Traver is). Only to be crippled by the people he raised so they can " misery" him to save the world.

let me explain the hive religion and history to you in extremely simple meme arrows

>worms are hungry
>hive deatroy and kill things to feed the worms so the worms don't feed on them
>they destroy and kill things because it is the most efficient way of getting energy
>along the way, they learn how to use the energy they feed their worms more efficiently, and get space magic
>they use this space magic to kill and destroy more perfectly
>this is exemplified by the sword logic, which is summed up by 'if i am stronger than this, it is because i am right, and the weak thing does not exist and it is my right and duty to remove it'
>this is amplified by their space magic, which cranks it up to 11, allowing them to reshape reality to what they want because they are stronger than reality, and reality accepts it according to their logic since their space magic allows their logic to super-impose and bleed out into the universe
>they adopt this logic into everything. killing is the ultimate expression of love to the hive, since it removes your weakness. oryx blew up a moon against his sister to show his love for her after she let vex into his throneworld to remove his weakness and kill him

>eventually though, the worm will get too hungry and you can't kill fast enough to satisfy it
>oryx comes up with the tithe system. you kill enough to feed your worm, take a little so you can grow, send it up to the next guy up in the chain, so on and so forth
>this is how they became gods
>they crusade around, killing and reshaping the universe to their perfect state where there is no weakness, since they have killed off everything and the only thing left is the strongest, which is also the right thing and way of doing things.

>evolution? diplomacy? RNG and natural order? fuck that shit, it was a bad experiment and im right because im the only thing left out of everything in the universe

>This thing that's popular is cool, want to discuss it?
>NO FUCK YOU, IT'S COMPLETELY UNORIGINAL BECAUSE IT'S NOT LIKE EVERYTHING'S DERIVATIVE
>NEVER MIND THAT I HAVE TO ASK WHAT IT IS, I JUST KNOW IT IS

Veeky Forums's Hipster Autism never fails to impress.

People don't dislike Destiny because it's derivative. People dislike destiny because it promised to be a deep complex interesting story dealing with high-concept stuff in a fleshed out scifi world. Something on par with Mass Effect, Star Wars or Halo's Extended Universe.

Instead we got a mess of story with no focus, more plotholes than actual substance, and WE AINT GOTTA EXPLAIN SHIT COS SPACE MAGIC, all wrapped around a shallow 3-hour campaign MMO loot-grinder that was less fun and had less personality than Borderlands that had come out years before and seemed to exist only to sell some of the most expensive expansion packs in triple-A gaming to date.

Destiny was such a fucking disappointment on so many levels.

Never said it wasn't shitty. Not that I would know, if I had 40 bucks I'd be spending it on things that aren't Bungies FPS MMO.

Mostly, I'm referring to
You know, those faggots.

To be fair, when something or that something's fanbase tries to use originality as one their product's major selling points, it's not unfair to call out their product on being a collection of lazily slapped-together tropes. Especially when they're slapped together badly and don't bring their own spin or interpretation of the trope to the table. Unless, as others have pointed out, you consider LOL SPACE MAGIC to be an original take on the tropes, because Destiny uses LIGHT and DARKNESS as their excuses for things more often than a Kingdom Hearts game, while never explaining what Light and Darkness actually ARE.

They're not hiveminded. In fact their culture is heavily focussed on benefitting the few at the expense of the many.

As for what makes them properly different, they worship the conscious force of natural selection through ritualized murder by which they prove their power and right to exist greater than those they kill.
To the Hive, war and love are synonymous, and their royal family regularly try to kill each other as a way to show affection.

In a way they ARE hive-minded though. It's not a "winner take all at the expense of everyone else" society. There's a very ridgid heirarchy in place, and the Hive do not break it. Every caste pays it's tithes to it's superiors, every individual advances when it has gathered enough tribute for it's worm (after paying it's tithe to it's betters) and Oryx rules at the top with an authority that is absolute.

Aside from the occasional challenge or someone wanting to take the place of their superior, the whole thing is very organized and stable. The only "expenses" the system incurs are a high casualty rate amongst the "cannon fodder" castes, but's also their best chance to gather enough Tribute to become something better. In a way the system gives them a better chance at advancing to their next stage of evolution than they would have outside of such a structure.

Destiny is bad and you should feel bad.

What the hell happened to Bungie?

There's a rigid hierarchy in place because breaking it is suicide.
When Hive get strong enough they can no longer support their symbiote worms with only the killing they do themselves and require the tithes of those under them in order to survive. Likewise the lower Hive can't skimp on tithes because if they do their boss and/or peers will fucking murder them.
That's not a Hive Mind, it's just a functional Chaotic Evil society.

>Chaotic Anything
>Functional on a societal level

Lawful Evil at best. But alignments are even more fucking retarded than Destiny's """lore""".

Actually, we both know what they are now.

The Light is Sufficiently Advanced Alien that is being hunted down by the Darkness because the Darkness has motives which will be explained below.

The Darkness is the physical embodiment of natural selection. It is a being which is the epitome of sword logic; so perfect that it wants to scour the entire universe of everything but itself so that nothing can ever threaten its own personal perfection. It purges other races, cultures and ideas from the universe because all it wants to do is survive.

You see this same ideology appearing in the Vex, the Hive and the Fallen; survival at any costs, survival of the fittest and caring only about the self.

Self interest isn't a hive mind.

>Chaotic has to be nonfuctional
>I know everything about all possible societies and understand the system so well that I can definitively say you're wrong.
Autist.

It's functional because breaking it is going to get you killed, not out of any actual attachment to laws. Bear in mind that the Hive's end goal is to kill everything else and then each other until there is only one perfect being left standing.

So it Destiny's universe, being an asshole gets you evil space magic. Cool lore bro.

This is so wrong I don't even know where to begin, holy shit. How do you have a physical embodiment of something that doesn't even have a physical form?

Being an asshole in a very specific way, yeah. It's more going through the motions of a ritual rather than anything else, though.

Well it's not like playing the game will tell them these things now is it?

Playing the game tells you nothing. You have to go to an external website to unlock item descriptions and such you earn in the actual game, and even then it's about as vague as the typical Dark Souls game... but at least Dark Souls lets you read the shit you unlocked in the actual game itself.

>Playing the game tells you nothing.
Yes, that's what was implied.

>Regular human choices has CN
>Lawful alignments are boring
>Evil alignments are always shameful to play
I'll agree that the 3x3 alignment sheet is dumb, but your opinions are even worse.

So they're Cravers with "might makes right" philosophizing taped on?

>How the game literally describes it

HOW DO I EXPLAIN IT it's so simple WHY DON'T YOU SEE

Imagine three great nations under three great queens. The first queen writes a great book of law and her rule is just. The second queen builds a high tower and her people climb it to see the stars. The third queen raises an army and conquers everything.

The future belongs to one of these queens. Her rule is harshest and her people are unhappy. But she rules.

This explains everything, understand? This is why the universe is the way it is, and not some other way. Existence is a game that everything plays, and some strategies are winners: the ability to exist, to shape existence, to remake it so that your descendants - molecules or stars or people or ideas - will flourish, and others will find no ground to grow.

And as the universe ticks on towards the close, the great players will face each other. In the next round there will be three queens and all of them will have armies, and now it will be a battle of swords - until one discovers the cannon, or the plague, or the killing word.

Everything is becoming more ruthless and in the end only the most ruthless will remain (LOOK UP AT THE SKY) and they will hunt the territories of the night and extinguish the first glint of competition before it can even understand what it faces or why it has transgressed. This is the shape of victory: to rule the universe so absolutely that nothing will ever exist except by your consent. This is the queen at the end of time, whose sovereignty is eternal because no other sovereign can defeat it. And there is no reason for it, no more than there was reason for the victory of the atom. It is simply the winning play.

No.
The Cravers are an artificial warrior race driven to consume in order to survive and expand.
The Hive are religious zealots that have to consume in order to survive so that they can continue to refine reality into the final, perfect shape in accordance with their philosophy, which rather than being 'taped on' is in fact the very core of their factional identity.

They're both races driven by hunger who will, if unchecked, wipe out all other life in the universe, then themselves. The main difference seems, to me at least, that the Hive stopped long enough at some point to come up with a justification for why they do what they do, and the Cravers didn't. I say "taped on" because I find the idea of arguing for this kind of ideology strange; if might is the only thing that matters and words are meaningless, why are you using words?

and soon.

Oryx, in the Book of Sorrows, is implied to use words to basically go "look bitch-nigga, you want to tell me I'm wrong? Well I have a simple test: kill me." The Sword Logic basically is striving to create the perfect form, and serves as a test to anything that dares oppose it. It's this kind of convoluted logic that Oryx took to justify when, a little early on into his/her role as the Taken King, justify straight slaughter. In essence, Oryx and his Hive consciously took it upon themselves to be the "external factor" that a race/empire would need to overcome in order to survive. The Darkness proposed that, if Oryx would ever die, then whatever killed him would then assume his place.

Oryx kind of crawled up his own ass, realizing about the time Crota died that something WOULD eventually kill him, because that's just the way things worked. Of course, it was the fucking Guardian that did it.

Imagine your entire race's existence being built on "well he who dares and succeeds wins it all and must take it all," then some random asshole who does the Carlton on God's front lawn, compares his favorite pants for an hour, and then splits a quark on God's sternum and just leaves.

Imagine that shit happening to your BBEG, Veeky Forums.

The Hive aren't driven by hunger, they're driven by their ideology. The ideology came first, the worms that gave them the hunger also follow said ideology. The ideology is, in fact, a sapient force and following it gives you magic powers.
Said sapient force is essentially natural selection, which is a law of reality in Destiny's universe for some reason. Because they essentially worship space magic natural selection they gained something called Sword Logic.
Sword Logic is essentially an argument proposed by the sapient force of natural selection that if something killed something else then it must be more powerful than that something else, and thus more worthy of existence.
This is why the Hive kill people, it's so that they can become more and more powerful via Sword Logic until they are at last the final pinnacle of natural selection. They call this theoretical being the perfect form, and it is what their 'god' seems to be working towards.

They do not kill things because they're hungry, they aren't trying to devour the universe or anything. They're trying to refine it.

Oh, as for why they're using words. The Hive have literally created a song that kills things.

The Fallen are more interesting desu

>Skolas, Kell of Kells did nothing wrong

"Power Word Kill" as a massive, glorious song is probably my favorite idea to come from Destiny, honestly, right next to the race of AI constructs that abuse time travel to try and take over the simulation that is reality.

The Vex are so fucking dope, there's just something about a faction who's end goal is literally to turn their own existence into an incontrovertible law of reality.

Makes me wonder if that's where the 'Light' and the 'Darkness' came from. Perhaps they were other races that had the same idea and succeeded?

I always thought the 'Light' and the 'Darkness' were Vex that suceeded

I'm convinced that they see the Light and Dark, and want to just make themselves that powerful. For whatever reason, they're denied the true effectiveness of either option and so they just want to survive.

I had a big theory I wrote out for the subreddit about it, in how the Vex basically give up when the Guardians kill Atheon, and hope to persist as instruments of war for them in hopes the Guardians don't just extinct them, because them just deleting the Last City with orbital bombardment left them royally fucked with whatever comes for Earth down the line.

It's also implied, too, that they have created their own pocket dimensions of sorts through their simulations. Book of Sorrows also states that they have outposts and holdouts all over the universe/galaxy, as the Hive have been fighting them for a very long time.

Fuckin' Vex, man. The best race in the whole lore, asides from Rogue Trader the species like we see with the Fallen.

Unless explaining Sword Logic to someone is potentially lethal, it's just words. If Sword Logic is correct, then it never need be proposed nor explained. It is self-evident. I'm right because you can't kill me. I am justified by my continued existence. The only communication that need exist between us is my demands. I don't need to explain anything to you. So why am I explaining anything to you?

>as the Hive have been fighting them for a very long time.
So does that mean that the Hive is fighting them because they are a worthy challenge or because the Vex as somehow connected to the Light?

The Hive is fighting them because the Hive fights all sentient life they encounter.

Also in the original script for Destiny, before the lead writer left, the Vex were actually a servant race of the Traveler, and the Traveler itself an "evil" entity that used Light to uplift civilations and then "consume" them as a source of power.
The Vex were a race that aided the Traveller in this goal, and served as a "threat" for races that initially denied the Traveller's help, threatening them as an outside force the Traveller could "save" them from like a big damn hero.

They're fighting because their goals are diametrically opposed. The Hive want to kill everything that isn't them and achieve the perfect shape, and the Vex don't want to die.
Because the Vex can essentially predict the future their attempts to not die often take a very aggressive bent.

The Hive's magic essentially operates by arguing with the rest of reality. Sword Logic is not taken as correct unless its veracity is proven.
Likewise, a lot of Hive Magic is basically arguing through song. It's how they developed the deathsong and also how they travel through space.

They have space magic, robots which create resources in the future to use in the past and dragons which a4e alive and dead and you think the bbeg being a physical embodiment of natural selection is too much?

So explaining Sword Logic to someone is potentially lethal.

Hey, fair enough.

Neither, actually. Crota was like "man, my sisters are carving up new demiplanes and putting their souls in them! I wanna be that cool!" and pretty much did the stupidest shit ever. The Vex were created as a final "fuck you" to Oryx after he killed some empire or another, and they desperately tried to keep up with him. Failed pretty hard. Crota then cut his way into a reality/timeline/some-shit where the Vex weren't totally screwed.

The Vex stormed into Oryx's Court and began abusing the Sword Logic of his Ascendant Planes to become stronger. The Taken Hydra we call Quria, Blade Transform comes from that encounter, and Oryx threw Crota into the Vex network where he proved himself worthy of his title as Son of Oryx across time and space. This, however, gets really confusing to follow thanks to Vex time-fuckery. They've simulated the alternate ending to the Paradox mission from the data Quria transmitted before being Taken.

The Vex were without Light or Dark, and from what I gather are decidedly horrified of something that is acausal and want to remove it. They simply can't comprehend it, due to having their "Design" where everything is interconnected and causal, so they want it gone. Forcing themselves to be a fundamental law of reality lets them say "no!" to acausal/paracausal shit, and thus be the hottest shit.

>worms are hungry
listen closely, oh vengeance mine...

Dragonworms pls go.

Yeah, trying to explain it to someone is like try to tell Kryten you want ketchup with your lobster.

Quria seems like such a cool character, I hope we get more of it.

youtube.com/watch?v=axDtj2bSduM

I think either she gets got a ways before the events of the game (gifted to Savathun but I am not really sure), or we off her with conventional bullets in the Taken War: Venus questline. I'll need to double check when I get the chance, because now I'm confused.

Time travel makes stories much more of a knot to untangle, but I love that challenge.

The Wiki makes no reference to fighting Quria, so probably the former.

I will say one thing though, if there's one entity in Destiny that can develop from a Taken state into something else then it's probably Quria.

All this talk of the Light and the Darkness is giving me Animorphs vibes for some reason.

Malok has done it, so yea I definitely think Quria could do it and probably be much better at it. That may be part of the reason the Vex are so scared in the alternate ending of the Paradox mission: Quria will exist and run shit long after Oryx, the Light, and maybe even the Darkness all die. And the Taken Vex don't follow the OG Vex "design" anymore due to how, when they were Taken, Oryx basically said "embrace this acausal environment, it is your new life."

It throws their entire existence in their face and considering they can't deal with being unable to simulate that environment (as opposed to how they can simulate just about everything else), and I think that's the worst thing for them. They're just hapless, robot bystanders in a world of gods and magic.

Now THAT's a series with great lore. The Ellimist and Crayak's weird conflict is some neat shit.

It's kind of strange to think about, but basically everyone but Guardians and Hive are just trying to stay afloat.

The Ellimist is basically the Traveller...if the traveller had more intuitive lore and wasn't a big ol' bag o' dicks.

What about xur, is he a man, human, or something of the sort, he sells weapons and is there once a week maybe he is the darkness shelling out guns to get more war and spread chaos

So if Darkness Spacemagic is Sword Logic, what's the best way to describe Light Spacemagic?

The Light isn't as well-defined as the Darkness.
But since Dark space magic must be taken instead of freely given or it won't work properly, I'd theorise that Light space magic is the opposite.
So, Power of Giving?

Maybe it's simpler than it all. I think maybe it's the darkness is biblical in the sense of first the was darkness and then God said let there be light and there was light, life is the light born from the inky black nothingness of the dark and the dark is always trying to extinguish the life flame of the light . Maybe it's more of an energy thing where light is a energy that keeps the darkness from flowing effortlessly, light two opposing particles smashing around but there's obviously more dark than light so light takes different forms to manipulate and maneuver around the dark
>Veeky Forums is the darkness and its already to late for us all.

>So, Power of Giving?
I'd have said Group Hug, but this works.

The Vex probably don't get it but that's the Vex for you.

>The Vex create an Axis Mind to understand the Light.
>Accidentally create Santa Claus.
>Christmas is made a universal constant when the Vex become a law of physics.

My God.

Yea, but after Oryx buys it even the Hive are hurting. It's a Heinlein approach to survival on all sides. Everyone is basically fighting for the same resources. And dealing with the same failcascades. I think the Cabal Empire will be the only threat to the Last City now, and I'm actually a little excited to see how a race that just got so mad it didn't even USE Light/Darkness to get where it is now stands. It'd be an interesting lens to look through, considering the closest thing they have to the Hive worms are Psions and their weird brain-parasites.

How do the Cabal deal with shit like Oryx rolling around the galaxy? Did they have the Traveler? Etc

I wonder if a race could use both Sword Logic AND Group Hugs.

Well, one third of the Hive are hurting. The City never even encountered Savathun and Xivu Arath's fleets, and there's no knowing how powerful they've become.

And I'm fairly sure the Cabal just chucked men at the problem.

The Vex are probably going to try.

>The Vex are probably going to try.
I wonder how well that's gonna go for them.

Decoding Sword Logic gave them a pretty significant power boost. Integrating Group Hugs would probably do the same and have the pleasant possible side-effect of putting them on the good guys' side so they won't be fucked over by the law of MMO players whining if their viewpoint character doesn't effortlessly steamroll everything in their path.

Bumping because I like the discussion in this thread even though I don't know shit about Destiny.

Look, it's a debate. Every faction espouses a philosophy based on more primordial structures. The Hive prize Strength, the Vex use Knowledge like a weapon, the Cabal are Law, the Fallen are a lack of guiding philosophy, and the Queen of the Reef is pragmatism. Each one is attempting to answer the simple question: which is the right way to be? What is the correct answer of existence? Losers of the debate get eliminated, which means extinction.

The Light and Darkness exemplify two overarching points that are greater than the singular philosophies. The Darkness is the embodiment of nihilism, that there is no right answer and that nonexistence is the correct way of things. The Light, conversely, is the opposite, which seems to say that all answers are correct to a degree in defiance of oblivion. This seems to be corroborated by in-game mechanics, where Motes of Light (the living Light itself) are created when you fuck up something big and powerful. Martial prowess and combat are simply the means by which the debate is executed.

Yeah, it's an expensive but average space FPS, but just read the grimoire cards and item descriptions online for free, there's neat stuff in there, and how Light and Darkness work becomes clearer, though still somewhat muddled because it'd take away from the mystery if they just outright told us. I mean, by this point no one would be able to come up with a satisfying filler for the Missing Primarchs in 40k, since they've got such a deep and ingrained mystery going on.

>the Fallen are a lack of guiding philosophy

Is this really the correct way to describe them? I mean, for the most part they are fairly aware of their past before the Whirlwind and the majority of their effort is to get the Traveler back because in some way shape or form they feel it will be the thing that biings them back to prominence.

Although I suppose you could be right in a way. The Kings definetly want the Traveler back and the Devils had been their bitches since they rolled into the solar system at least it seems until the whole Wrath of the Machine incident as I don't believe the Kings would have been able to control the Siva any more then the Devils.

There's also the fact that Vrakis has essentially an item that can proclaim you to be what Skolas said himself to be, The Kell of Kells but is hesitant to use it probably holding on to it for the "right moment" whenever that will be.

Variks for Kell of Kells 2016, make the Eliksni great again.

>#HouseofJudgement

The best thing about the Kell of Kells prophecy is that the Kell of Kells is essentially made the supreme commander of the Light by the Traveller itself, which would make him the Guardians' boss.

Are you ready to protect Variks' smile, Veeky Forums?

But the thing is the Elder Cipher that can grant you the title has already been ignited...By a Guardian.

Variks didn't do it himself but must have been overjoyed that you didn't understand the significane of the Cipher and was glad to part ways with a gun for the symbol of the fucking king of all Fallen.

...

The Elder Cipher is basically what makes you a Kell, not quite Kell of Kells, but just a Kell in general. It's an old artifact, one that is carefully hoarded because of how it manipulates the Ether flow *just right* for an Eliksni to become of a Kell's stature.

Guardians can almost universally be counted on to find an alien relic of power and toss it aside, because they just don't really care. See: Touch of Malice.

I'm really hoping Variks ends up uniting his people under one banner and just staking out some space without trying to make a war with the Last City over it. His Grimoire cards basically have him going "I just don't want my people to die," implying he would work with the Sol system in order to save his people. A noble deed, one I hope writers don't foul into him becoming equivalent to the God-Emperor of Mankind.

>Guardians can almost universally be counted on to find an alien relic of power and toss it aside, because they just don't really care.
Well, that and because they don't understand what they have. Seriously, only a Warlock could really be expected to know what half the stuff Guardians pick up actually is and why it's significant, and even then only after studying it for a while.

And yeah, I'm also hoping Variks and the Eliksni get a happy end.

I want the happy end for Eliksni and Variks as well. Speaking of Warlocks I wonder if Tolland will come back into play beyond just having made a gun with a silly name.

I mean, he joined Eris Morn's fire team just so he could talk to a Ir Yut and now he's floating in their throne world and basically fucked the fire team over his fascination with the Hive.

>happy end for eliksni

nope, oxidize the fallen, race war now

no mercy for devils, kings and traitorous wolves

They do break it, occasionally. Malok started as a dreg and killed his way to being Pride of Oryx.

Toland is gonna either be a villain or just slowly fade into nothingness as the Guardians continue to shatter the Sword Logic and make graves of all the Throne Worlds.

You stop that right now, or I'll retcon the Traveller into being evil all along again.

Everyone starts as a thrall and can evolve into other forms. Even Crota and his sisters started as one and had to fight their way up to god hood.

Sorry, I didn't say what I meant. I mean, Malok started as a dreg and didn't climb the normal way. He actively took all the tribute for himself, because he was supposed to give it to Savathun but said fuck that. So I guess he became a knight faster than normal?

humanity ain't free. the walls of the city gotta be littered with the light of guardians. Aksis AKA "SIVA whore" is not my ally. he is a dog and probably a cryptarch as well. Petra and Mara, not Petra and Variks OK. Praise the Light

That remains to be seen of course. I hope he just doesn't fade into obscurity considering Savathun and Xivu Arath are still around and won't take kindly to their sister/brother getting kinda sorta perma-deaded.

Mara a shit, Awoken worst ally.

Patra best awoken.

As one of the world's biggest Halo needs I want to punch you in the face. I don't know much about the Destiny franchise but those things sound nothing like the Halo analogs you mentioned

She really is, Petra for new queen. Variks for Kell of Kells.
#MakeSolGreatAgain