/gdg/ - Game Design General: We had a good run last time edition

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Channel: #dev
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>Project List:
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/134UgMoKE9c9RrHL5hqicB5tEfNwbav5kUvzlXFLz1HI/edit?usp=sharing

>Online Play:
roll20.net/
obsidianportal.com/

>RPG Stuff:
darkshire.net/~jhkim/rpg/freerpgs/fulllist.html
darkshire.net/~jhkim/rpg/theory/
therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=21479
docs.google.com/document/d/1FXquCh4NZ74xGS_AmWzyItjuvtvDEwIcyqqOy6rvGE0/edit
mega.nz/#!xUsyVKJD!xkH3kJT7sT5zX7WGGgDF_7Ds2hw2hHe94jaFU8cHXr0
gamesprecipice.com/category/dimensions/

>Dice Rollers
anydice.com/
anwu.org/games/dice_calc.html?N=2&X=6&c=-7
topps.diku.dk/torbenm/troll.msp
fnordistan.com/smallroller.html

>Tools and Resources:
gozzys.com/
donjon.bin.sh/
seventhsanctum.com/
ebon.pyorre.net/
henry-davis.com/MAPS/carto.html
topps.diku.dk/torbenm/maps.msp
www-cs-students.stanford.edu/~amitp/game-programming/polygon-map-generation/demo.html
mega.nz/#!ZUMAhQ4A!IETzo0d47KrCf-AdYMrld6H6AOh0KRijx2NHpvv0qNg

>Design and Layout
erebaltor.se/rickard/typography/
drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B4qCWY8UnLrcVVVNWG5qUTUySjg&usp=sharing
davesmapper.com

>Systems tied to settings? Or settings tied to systems?

Rewrote the setting part into it's own self-contained game.

It would still need more setting fluff, but I'll try to work that out somehow. Probably gonna make some of the NPC:s that will appear in my game examples or something.

Needs a GM knowledge section, too.

Systems tied to settings only make sense for super focused, usually small games.

I had this weird resource idea and I'm wondering what it could be good for.

You have some number of reversi pieces. Some things require a certain amount of each color, but "spending" them is just flipping them to the other side. So it just changes instead of depleting.

FFG uses similar mechanic as a metaresource. There are force or destiny tokens, and when they're (white), the players can use them to enhance their rolls, and when they are (black), the GM can use them to make rolls harder or enhance enemy rolls.

All in all, a cool mechanic, feel free to steal it.

Anyone familiar with fading suns dual spiritual attributes?

I love LBB style games. Shorter than a heavy tome like D&D, but with more meat than a one-page story game.

I am looking forward to seeing more of this.

...

As for my own game (the card based one) I have been crunching some numbers.
I've found that the odds of scoring a valid result on a blind test (two cards from the top of the deck, instead of from your hand) is about 32.7% Roughly about equal with a 1d6 roll of 5 or 6. But beating target numbers on a blind test is going to cut that percentile down a bit.

What reasons can there be for characters to choose light armor over heavy armor? It seems like if you knew you were going into a fight, youd wear the most protective shit you could afford, but I dont would like there to be more to armor choice than just cost. Really the only other consideration seems to be how comfy it is out of combat, but that is a rather silly thing to impose mechanical penalty for, and even then the best case would be players having two sets of armor, heavy for when they expect combat and light for when they dont.

Kind of agree. A good system uses the themes of a setting well. So you don't have to tie a game perfectly to its setting (and games are usually better when they aren't) but it'll have to keep to some basic concept. E.G. a system designed to mech combat will be pretty shit in a realistic medieval combat game.

Heat/frost problems.
Crossing waters.

This isn't like that. They'd be used both ways by one person, and cost varying amounts.

This.

Plus availability/expense. Armour is a massive endeavour to make, more so than most comparable weapons would be, so getting hold of heavy stuff should be a bit of a challenge.

And you don't always know when you're going into a fight. There's a great little story piece in one of the Jovian Chronicles books where a woman is waiting in a restaurant for her date to show up, reminiscing about how he looked so dashing and handsome when he showed up in his combat gear and saved her from a firefight, and how she made sure she looked as hot as she could for the date. Then she's mortified as the guy shows up in body armour with a pair of pistols holstered at his hips and a katana over his back. Sometimes subtler armour is preferable.

-high price / low avaibility
-walking into heavy armor sends a strong signal which might be innoportune for certain roleplaying settings, while light armor is always ok.
-weakness to blunt damage ( well at least plate, you could make up something for the chainmail)
-armor weight might be over the weight limit for the character or make him tired more quickly.
-unable to use mounted combat effectively ( horse get tired faster, it's harder to do some tricks, a stronger horse might cost more).
-proficiency: if your class/feature list does not include heavy armor then you'll get penalties for trying to wear it( or penalties to certain abilities used with heavy armor).
-heavy armor limits some skill usage/ your dexterity ( in D&D for example dexterity increase armor class, just as heavy armor does, but armor limits your maximum dexterity). stealth and acrobacy, hiding skills make the most sense.Swimming with heavy armor is lethal too and you can't fly with it.
-heavier armor limits your movement speed
-random ass restrictions. For example: arcane spell have a failure chance with heavy armor, monk can't use their special, yet non magical, abilities, etc.You could even say that heavy armor decrease your ability to use daggers and bows and most players would accept it since there is shit that makes far less sense in some RPGs.
-making its benefits not very big in comparison to its drawbacks and alternatives. If your world has magic then elemental attack or some magical stuff might target heavy armor(weak to acid, rust, magnets, electricity, fire, sometimes cold) or not care about armor(which decrease the overall relevancy of this defence option). If only leather armor could be magically enhanced in a certain way then it could become more like an alternative to heavy armor.

Not entirely true in my experience. As a GM and designer I really like what a lot of PbtA and other contemporary games do by having the GM and players work together to create a setting they're all invested in. That said, I've met a lot of people who are just too dumb to do this or don't like the pressure of doing it.

My game has a brief gazetteer with the framework for a default setting and a chapter about how to make your own together. This lets people hop right in but gives the option to make a setting together.

Moreover, many systems have rules to reinforce their settings; would you say the Shadowrun system, as a whole, is setting agnostic? What about FFG's Star Wars games?

So there will be a metagame around where you're trying to manage the tokens so that you have them on the right side?

Very much skill-play. Is it for an RPG? Or a board game? If it's an RPG, it might lead into big difference in player skill, depending on how hard managing the resources is.

That's kind of my schtick (these days anyway). I had a longer system before (17 pages) but that's pretty light still.

I really don't see how you can use 200 pages explaining rules, when in reality, you don't need more than 20-30, more than that is usually unnecessary. Like, no matter how much I like Ryuutama, it's filled to the brim with pretty inconsequential rules.

Like, if you need complex mechanics, make a computer game. Fluid games (Games that have an active GM) do not need so many rigid rules IMO. Having rigid rules also usually causes more trap options, because adding complexity adds imbalances.

Dungeon crawling involves a lot of climbing and squeezing through small spaces. Bulky armor is incredibly impractical in a cave.

and/or

Heavy armor is the clear best option against human opponents, but if you're fighting a swarm of scorpions it's overkill, and if you're fighting a dragon it will claw straight through your armor regardless. So maybe you just wear something you can dodge in.

I think being tied to a setting is important for the "endless list of character options" style games like D&Ds 3+. Those are pretty ambitious for homebrew, though.

Like I said, it would be like a resource. I'm wondering if there's any interesting qualities to it besides potentially huge chains of things fueling each other.

My first thought was that character classes (or class-like things) could be built around how they interact with that resource.

One might exclusively use A and another B while a third wants balance and a fourth frequently swaps between states. With 3+ options you have even more archetypes you can cover.

When it comes to complexity, it's my opinion that either all mechanics are equally simple, or one mechanic takes majority complexity and the others supplement.

Working on my game's class roster:

>Warrior
{Martial} {Defense}
Abilities: +2 STR, +2 DEX
Magic: Fate

>Veteran
{Martial} {Support}
Abilities: +2 STR, +2 WIS
Magic: Fate

>Scout
{Martial} {Control}
Abilities: +2 DEX, +2 WIS
Magic: Fate

>Mystic
{Occult} {Defense}
Abilities: +2 CON, +2 INT
Magic: Blood and Shadow

>Cleric
{Occult} {Support}
Abilities: +2 CON, +2 CHA
Magic: Blood and Fire

>Magician
{Occult} {Control}
Abilities: +2 INT, +2 CHA
Magic: Shadow and Fire

>Revenant
{Undead} {Defense}
Abilities: +2 STR, +2 CON
Magic: Blood and Necromancy

>Psychopomp
{Undead} {Support}
Abilities: +2 WIS, +2 CHA
Magic: Fire and Necromancy

>Puppeteer
{Undead} {Control}
Abilities: +2 DEX, +2 INT
Magic: Shadow and Necromancy

>Scaramouche
{Elf} {Defense}
Abilities: +2 STR, +2 INT
Magic: Shadow and Song

>Pierrot
{Elf} {Support}
Abilities: +2 CON, +2 WIS
Magic: Blood and Song

>Harlequin
{Elf} {Control}
Abilities: +2 DEX, +2 CHA
Magic: Fire and Song

>Royalty
{Any} {Any}
Abilities: +2 to any one
Magic: Any

Not sure if this is the right place but.. do you guys know about any PnP games that are like Civilization or Master of Magic?

I want to make a roleplaying system where the players manage little empires and roleplay diplomacy, war, resource management and trade and I've been looking for other systems for inspiration.

How do people feel about using characters from other media to explain things like how high a skill is? Does it hurt if the example character is from out of genre?

(If it matters, this is a game with free form skill names, and an actual writeup would explain things multiple ways instead of just this excerpt)

Example, social skills:
4 - Ashitaka's "De-escalating situations" skill in Princess Mononoke.
6 - Wesley's "Bluffing" skill in The Princess Bride
8 - Ferris Bueller's "Con artistry" skill in Ferris Bueller's Day Off

It dates the game and doesn't help if people aren't familiar with your examples. I've never seen Princess Mononoke, and my memory of Wesley is much stronger than Ferris Bueller. Those three don't really give me a good frame of reference. Regardless of which three characters you choose, chances are someone is going to have that kind of reaction or worse. It may seem thematic, but it isn't a good solution.

It's not a proper limit in cases where you use both sides, so it would have to be combined with some other limit. The question is what interesting situations this limit could lead to.

By and large, if you're going to use an example from other media in your rules, it's best to make it as broad and popular an example as possible. After all, if it's necessary to get the reference to understand the meaning of the rule, then you'd better have one you know your entire audience will get.

Not that your examples are bad, of course. They get the point across to anyone that's familiar with the properties in question. It's just that, if people don't know the examples, they'll be a bit lost.

In a card based system where you have a maximum hand-size equal to your character's Stamina stat, and you play cards from your hand to make tests...

...What do spells with draw and discard effects represent to you?

Is there a method of testing a custom card game online with some friends sorry really new at this.

The individual components of drawing and discarding, or the whole? For the whole of drawing and discarding, I can see it as re-centering themselves, taking a breath to realign. Not enough to recover any strength, but to reassess the situation and their own physical and mental state.

been working on such a game. Progress is going well, despite the fact I don't update these documents much.

trade rules, casualty rolls and similar are in unformatted documents as yet, but ask away if you want to know how I handle something in particular.

Any tips on formatting? I've written some rules but they exist as an indecipherable collection of excel files unplayable to anyone other than myself

You don't really need anything fancier than Word for a homebrew, really.

Just make a two-column document in letter/A4, and use styles to make 1-column header 1:s that change pages before.

From there on, you can just use header 2:s so you can make a table of contents if needed.

If you use styles you're already better off than most people.

If you're planning to get real commercial, just learn to Indesign and do it with that. Formatting is like editing and cutting in filmmaking: not mechanically hard, but it's definitely an art of its own.

Who made this? If there is more care to post it? It looks pretty interesting.

alternatively, scribus. it's not that hard to learn. get a basic tutorial and before starting to write shit down, get another tutorial on how to properly set up a document (master pages, styles, grids, etc.).

typography and publication style guides are your best bet. Most advice is technical and specific enough that you may as well go to the source rather than hope it gets recreated here

Scribus is a good learning experience for sure.

The 12 Towers guy again, and I finally got a solid 1st draft of the 3rd beta edition rule set. Let me know what you think. I wrote it out in double column style, and it's only 12 pages for now, but it covers just about everything.

I like the lucidity of the writing

Thanks, along with the rules, I got a new board design done as well. Just a matter of finishing the cards, and it miiiiiight be kickstarter time.

To explain the board real quick, I'm using a hexagon battle grid system. The outer regions are Tower Territories, the foresty green area is called "The Midlands", and the center is the Battleground.

So far I've gotten good-ish reviews, and I'm looking forward to testing it soon. The only complaints I heard were that the Midlands were no longer connected. Getting to a new Tower requires passage through the Battleground. I'll offer alternatives, but for now I'm liking this design. Far too many times with my last board, in less than 5 or so turns it turned into "ayyy fuck you neighbor".

hey, where is a good place to store your game pdfs so people can download them?

Need some feedback. I want to make something generic in the vein of GURPS but much less rules-y. I want to use a 2d6 mechanic because I've played a lot of Savage Worlds and I am sick to death of exploding dice. I mean I love the system but I need a break.
So I'm not trying to do anything *too* new and fantastical here. I'm planning to use this for a zombie campaign so things are going to be pretty lethal.
But anyway, my idea is, 10 character points, skills cost 1/3/6 for 1/2/3 points, the system is 2d6 + skill versus 8 for a basic check. Each range bracket has a TN to hit (6/8/10) and there will be some other ranged combat stuff. Hit points are 8 + Fortitude skill, Defense is 8 + Agility skill, Movement is 8 base I think. Maybe 5. I don't know how long rounds should be. I almost feel like 3 seconds is better than 6. Or 1 seconds like GURPS but that's almost too long.
Anyway, my skill list is:
> Fighting
> Shooting
> Throwing
> Strength
> Agility
> Piloting
> Stealth
> Perception
> Persuasion
> Survival
etc etc.
Traits are going to be stuff like Sharpshooter specialization that give you an extra bonus when you spend a round to aim (aiming will be a default action anyway), or Heavy Hitter that lets you reroll 1s on your melee damage dice.
For damage I'm figuring 1d6 for small melee, 1d6+1 for medium melee, 1d6+2 for 2-handed melee. A pistol will deal 2d6, a rifle or shotgun 2d6+2, and shotguns will give a +1 to hit because muh buckshot, but also get -2 / -4 damage at longer ranges.

Autofire I'm not sure what to do. I'm thinking iterative attacks: you can spend 5 bullets to shoot once normally, another 5 to shoot another attack at -2, another 5 to shoot another attack at -4, etc., thus escalating recoil. I mean with 2d6 you're going to have to roll these attacks one at a time anyway. So you could empty a mag in one round if you wanted to but by the end you'd be shooting at like -8.
Oh and boxcars / snake eyes are autohit/automiss in combat.Need some feedback. I want to make something generic in the vein of GURPS but much less rules-y. I want to use a 2d6 mechanic because I've played a lot of Savage Worlds and I am sick to death of exploding dice. I mean I love the system but I need a break.
So I'm not trying to do anything *too* new and fantastical here. I'm planning to use this for a zombie campaign so things are going to be pretty lethal.
But anyway, my idea is, 10 character points, skills cost 1/3/6 for 1/2/3 points, the system is 2d6 + skill versus 8 for a basic check. Each range bracket has a TN to hit (6/8/10) and there will be some other ranged combat stuff. Hit points are 8 + Fortitude skill, Defense is 8 + Agility skill, Movement is 8 base I think. Maybe 5. I don't know how long rounds should be. I almost feel like 3 seconds is better than 6. Or 1 seconds like GURPS but that's almost too long.

So yeah that might be pretty gay but I'm just going to be using it for myself. So some starting character can have like Fighting 2, Shooting 1, Agility 1, Stealth 1, Cooking 1 (i dunno) and that would be a total of 3+1+1+1+1 points spent, so he could spend 2 points on the heavy hitter trait for example and then 1 point on another skill. He'd have Defense 9, Vitality 8 and he could wear armor for DR. So 1 or 2 shots or a couple swings would put someone down.
I kinda want to recreate the Savage Worlds toughness system but with bounded accuracy. Almost like M&M but less swingy. Dunno what to really do. I don't want to have to use exploding dice but I don't want the whole "lol you literally can't do damage to this guy cause you deal 2d6 and his toughness is 13" issue.

Bump

I have a link to an older version if it here. I'm going through a fairly major overhaul with typography and editing, changing a lot of rules for simplicity and clarity atm. It's in the project list under Blood & Iron. The next release will look a lot better, have rules for naval travel and whatnot.

Pbta games are pretty focused, same with star wars. Usually ≠ always.