What are good reasons for a chaotic neutral character staying with an adventuring party for several adventures and...

He was fed by the party and decided to return the flavor.

Despite being chaotic (a means to an end) he is still neutral (desire for a status quo). In the end it is determined by what constitutes as a comfortable life for that character. If the BBEG plans on ushering in an age of darkness it will in turn ruin his vacation. Joining a party to stop him for no less than to ensure he doesn't lose his deposit in the case of a demonic invasion is more than a justification.

As yourself, why would a cat follow you around?

Amore.

DELETE THIS

Giving characters a reason to stick together after an adventures is something that a lot of DMs completely forget to do. It is incredibly unnatural for most characters really. In most movies, books, and games it is usually shown in some way that characters part ways once the adventure is over. The Hobbits return to the Shire. Mad Max fucks off once the story is over. Indiana Jones goes on another adventure with new friends and allies.

Chaotic neutral characters especially will hate staying with a party forever because they value their freedom, and they don't want to be ruled over in decisions of where to go next, or who to help out. CN characters are guaranteed to fuck off if they are played right. But a good bye does not have to be a good bye forever. You have to assume that characters will go their own ways inbetween adventures, but they meet again either by chance, or because their help is called upon. You can make this more reasonable by giving the characters boons and titles for their victories. Have the duke proclaim, "from this day forth, you shall be known as the gray riders, champions of this land, and all men and women within this city's walls shall reward you with praise and hospitality."

>implying Chaotic Neutrals can't forge friendships

>hey, I want to move to Europe. Wanna come with?
>how could I say no to a friend? :)

Adventuring isn't like joining a tennis club.

>chaotic characters desire a status quo

That is the exact opposite of what chaotic characters want. Chaotic characters desire change, diversity, and freedom. If anything, their "status quo" should be that nothing ever stays the same.

Well, the OP asked why a CN character should stay for more than one adventure.

I think "because he likes them" or "because he wants to" is a good reason, specifically because he is chaotic neutral. part of freedom is the freedom to do what you want, even if it's the same thing again and again.

He's having fun.
When things get boring, he'll wander off somewhere, and they'll find him in a tavern two or three cities down the line, later.

Why wouldn't they?

Unless the party is specifically causign them issues or trouble, or clearly wants them out of the way, there wouldn't be any reason for them NOT to stay with the party either.

The arguments work both ways.

Curiosity.

Chaotic Neutral characters are by their nature capricious and whimsical. It will take a LOT for them to choose to be tied down with someone, friend or no. Since most adventures start with characters being complete strangers, it is pretty unlikely that a chaotic neutral will stick with a bunch of jerks for what may seem like a lifelong journey.

and
get it.

Another good way is to make the CN the brother or sister of another party character. Roma are a good example. Freedom and anti-authoritarianism may be inherent to their culture, but they won't betray or abandon their clan.
That 99% of chaotic neutral characters you play act like 1% of actual chaotic neutral characters would suggests to me that you are willing to either sacrifice a lot to convenience or you are downright lazy roleplayers.

I would think of it less like choosing to be tied down for a lifetime and more like a new decision each time. "hey wanna join for this adventure?" "sure"

it gets harder if the rest of the party is jerks, but in any case they did do the first adventure successfully, so why not go with what's working

>>hey, I want to move to Europe. Wanna come with?
>>how could I say no to a friend? :)

This sounds exactly like what a Chaotic Neutral would say.

>adventuring is totally like moving to some place and starting to live there for the rest of your life
>doesn't understand the concept of real friendship, the one that is basically as strong as family

Whatever you say guvnor

What you and everyone else is implying is that is what every other chaotic neutral character would do 100% of the time. In the bigger scheme of things, the CN's big life decisions would be majorly made by their friends. You are spinning this example as a whimsical decision, rather than the subordination of your own desires to those of another person.

Starts of for thrills/money/whatever fits, but eventually gets character development and finds a reason to fight which fits the campaign.

But the alignment system is terrible for this, as a change of beliefs or ideals is reduced to a moment where you're position on a grid changes, rather than gradual change.

Oh, silly OP. Everyone knows that Chaotic Neutral PCs instantly fall in love with the other player characters as soon as they set eyes upon each other. The rulebook more or less states that as soon as the paladin calls the thief a dirty thieving scoundrel, and as soon as he sees her fingers in another merchant's pockets, he will cut them off, the chaotic neutral character decalres eternal friendship and they exchange colored bracelets.
The party forges an unbreakable bond once they master their first battle. The chaotic neutral may have fought with others before, but watching a bunch of novices barely manage to batter a wolf will make them never want to leave their side again! Such an experiences forges a deep and mysterious friendship that surpasses all differences in ideologies and alignments.

Lawful/Chaotic = Responsible/Impulsive
Good/Evil = Charitable/Selfish

Daily reminder CE is the lolrandom alignment.

CN doesn't just act on impulse like CE, they have motivations that drive them beyond their immediate reach and arguably it would most likely be to a larger ideal than they could reasonably attain with their lack of raw ambition.

CN=/=CStupid
CNs can have friends, bonds, sense of duty and responsibility. Being CN just means that you love freedom and can have mood swings, it doesn't meen that you should be the embodiment of fucking chaos and randomness.

Remember when at the end of Pirates of the Caribbean Jack Sparrow said, "you are my best friend now, Orlando Bloom. Let's stay together and have adventures until the end of time."

Remember when at the end of Mad Max 2, Mad Max says, "I platonically love you, strangers I helped out. I will live with you from now on."

Because they're on adventures. The chaotic neutral character doesn't have to have ADD, he or she just has to be very interested in being free and unrestrained, and not particularly inclined to be malicious or altruistic. That's a pretty easy archetype to make work for a travelling adventurer, plying their skills for coin as they explore the world. And if they can have a group of friends to share that adventure with, then why not?

My Chaotic Neutral orc barbarian is best friends with one of the party members and pretty much goes wherever his buddy goes. He still wanders off often, and since he's the main source of damage the party often has to go looking for him.

There was a riot going on at one point in the city and the barbarian completely disappeared into the crowd. They found him a few blocks over taking advantage of the mayhem by having stolen a fancy hat from a nearby clothing store and stuffing his face with as many steaks and hams could from the butcher shop.

>And if they can have a group of friends to share that adventure with, then why not?

If you travel with a group, it is inherent that you have to place your own needs and desires below that of others, at least some of the time, but really most of the time. Adventuring with a group is intrinsically connected with the idea of restraining yourself. A CN may very well do that for one, two, or three adventures. But staying with the same group of people for several campaigns without a break? That is pretty implausible.

>literally move across countries and even continents all the time
>is not the same thing as moving somewhere

If your character has low charisma and wisdom, I could totally buy that.

>it is inherent that you have to place your own needs and desires below that of others
Why below? Generally, even if there's a de facto "leader", parties are a group of equals sharing the spoils. Obviously not being evil requires that you sometimes give up things you want, but in this case, it's to get other things you want, like friendship, or gold, or surviving your adventure. You're forgetting that the fact that they're neutral on the good-evil spectrum means they aren't completely selfish, overwhelming all their other desires.

Low Intelligence too. He's a lot of fun to roleplay as.

My alignment does not dictate my actions, my actions dictate my alignment.

Thread locked.

>it's fun
>he has a friend/s in the party
>constant threat and cool shit to do and see
>dosh
>the party consists of murderhobos and other fun guys to be around
>pussy
It's just you being restrictive about your perception of a characte, m8

I imagine him like a child that always walks off in the mall, and when mom comes to get him he gets all excited and tells her what he's done. When she says they decide to go into a dungeon, he's all, "a dungeon? Oh, goodie!" like she said "ice cream."

He's bored, they're interesting

>parties are a group of equals sharing the spoils

That's the point, fucko. In a group of ten, you'll have your will 10% of the time.

Because they present him with the best opportunity for cash and kicking people's cunt in.

If that is your reason, then your CN will want to fuck off really bad after a while. People are only interesting so long, and after a year or so of travelling, the character will be jonesing for novelty, especially where there is a whole WORLD of interesting creatures to hang out with.

>you'll have your will 10% of the time
Then how does that separate a chaotic neutral character from a lawful neutral or true neutral character.

> I know these people and they have proven themselves trustworthy and reliable traveling companions in a world where literally everything is trying to kill us, but I'm going to fuck off because BORED

Lawful characters will support established hierarchies and decision-making processes, unless they are at odds with their ideology. True neutral characters will only mind subordinating themselves to hierarchies unless it causes them harm or great discomfort, or it somehow goes against their ideology if they are religious or something. Chaotic neutral characters serve their freedom and passion foremost. They are the ones will who actively resent, resist, and rebel against group decisions, even if they are in the extreme minority.

>where literally everything is trying to kill us

That is factually untrue. There will be plenty of good characters in your setting, unless you specifically write it to consist almost entirely of cutthroats and scoundrels. You are also committing the mistake of subordinating the desires of the CN to practicality. Saying a CN shouldn't do something he really wants to do because it is practical is like saying a good character should do or allow something good because it's practical.

Lol, his reaction was essentially like he was a kid who got caught with his hand in the cookie jar when they found him, and that's not far off from how he is about dungeons. He loves proving how strong he is to other people and there's no better way to do that than to go fighting in dungeons full of deadly monsters.

You're totally right, chaotic characters cannot ever be practical at any time, ever

Nice strawman.

No, nice paraphrasing

The point is that a CN won't choose to do something convient when otherwise there is something he wants to do out of passion.

Lawful characters act primarily out of law and order.
Neutral characters act primarily out of practicality.
Chaotic characters act primarily out of desire.

That was a valid poin tho. Being chaotic neutral doesn't mean that your character is an autistic retard

>Chaotic neutral characters serve their freedom and passion foremost.
But not to any ends. If you follow your own passion to any ends, you end up sacrificing the needs of others to get them, and end up in the evil side of things. The fact that a CN character is neutral means they care deeply about their own freedom, but are at the very least, limiting themselves from doing things that actively fuck other people over.

On top of that, I have to refer you to my original comment: it's an adventure. They are following their passion for adventure. And you're gonna get more freedom in a small group of explorers than you will in any other hierarchy to be found. What's the alternative, go into dark chasms alone? Have to make a new group of friends every time, even though you're attached to these guys? What you're saying makes no sense.

Chaotic characters are not base animals, slaves to their immediate desires and passions. They're a lot more LIKELY to give into them than neutral or lawful characters, but that doesn't mean they're completely incapable of anticipating shit, looking ahead, and making plans. Fucking off into obvious danger because you're bored is Chaotic Stupid.

No, it means that CN just values his freedom and has a pretty nonrestrictive moral compass. It doesn't that his entire character is "muh freedom and muh ambition". The fucked can do whatever the fuck he wants, and he may find that adventuring with his new "family" is what he desires.

It's usually becasue the character likes money, killing people, or both. CN is Murderhobo: The Alignment. It's why many on Veeky Forums dislike them.

Why do you think it's weird for someone to remain with a group of friends he has a long history with? Chaotic doesn't mean lolrandumb, a Chaotic character still has normal emotional attachments.

You're debunking claims nobody made. Of course a CN may go with a party into a dungeon. But if he gets bored with the party, and the desire to be on their own grows bigger, than the decision to leave becomes more obvious. In a world full of sell-swords, brigands, and adventurers, it isn't so unreasonable to believe they will meet someone else to travel with if they part ways.

>he may find that adventuring with his new "family" is what he desires.

Why do you always resort to schmaltzy dogshit to justify why your characters would do things they obviously wouldn't do? Did you watch too much yu-gi-oh?

What I'm saying is that Chaotic characters are not fucking elementals (or whatever the equivalent for the alignment planes is.) Yeah, they value independence and freedom, but they can ALSO value reliability, familiarity, and friendship. It's just that they value the former more than the latter.

>Remember when at the end of Pirates of the Caribbean Jack Sparrow said, "you are my best friend now, Orlando Bloom. Let's stay together and have adventures until the end of time."

I remember when he and Gibbs and the rest of the crew he recruited sailed off to continue having adventures while Will and Elizabeth were the only party members to stay behind. Continuing to have crazy adventures is the default mode of behavior for a Chaotic character. It's Lawful people who need an excuse not to settle down and become captain of the town guard after they save a village.

>It's just that they value the former more than the latter.

Yeah, and that is why they will choose to part ways.

Listen, like someone else said above, if a character leaves, they don't have to leave forever. But a character deciding to stay with their """friends""" for the rest of their life, especially if they value their own desires and ambitions above everything else, it's patently ridiculous. Have them have a chance meeting when they next adventure starts. Have a common signal to send when they hear of another adventure. There are messengers. There are even spells for that. Be creative. What you are doing is give shitty reasons that prove you don't understand what it means to be chaotic.

Chaotic characters aren't required to be short-sighted morons. You don't get to have everything you want, and Chaotic characters know this, and it is perfectly plausible that their odds of actually successfully satisfying a desire on their own might be low enough that giving up the friends they've made isn't worth it.

Nobody's saying they stick around forever. Show me one post in this thread that made that claim. We're talking about a few months to a year, roughly

>OP: "why would a CN stay for more than one campaign?"
>you: "FUCK YOU OP MY CN TOTALLY WOULD STAY FOR A WHOLE CAMPAIGN!"

???

Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize that one campaign is literally forever

Chaotic neutrals will align their desires with practicality if possible, but a chaotic neutral will do something impractical if the desire is big enough. Chaotic neutral characters are inherently disruptive for this very reason. If a chaotic neutral character gets bored with a party, they will leave sooner or later.

So what you're saying is that if someone either intentionally or thoughtlessly builds a CN character whose interests do not particularly align with the party, they probably won't stick around. This is technically true, but it is also true of every other alignment, so it's a vacuous point.

And if you go back, you'll notice that this chain of argument goes back to a person who gave a shitty interst for their CN staying with a party. Why are we arguing?

It's the internet. We have a quota.

Jack Sparrow also is the captain of his ship. He literally doesn't have to listen to anyone but himself.

Is it possible to front load the character's motivations? I'd like to see them using the group as a way to get out of other obligations, like a marriage or an obligation to something like the courts or royalty.

In a high level campaign I once played a nuetral evil character that worked with the party because the last Friday of every month was poker night. He was friends with the bbeg who had become to busy for it since he started this whole global conquest nonsense.

Great. What about Gibbs and the rest of the crew? They're pirates, most of them are Chaotic.

I've had this idea for a neutral/evil character party, where one of the characters is a neutral evil prince of sorts who is expected to follow a tradition of chivalry, while the other party members are sworn retainers who are either true neutral or lawful neutral, who have sworn their unbreakable allegiance to the prince without question.
The prince will want to protect his image to not lose his claim, while the neutrals tend to look the other way when he does something questionable either don't want to lose their status and cushy job, or because they gave their word.
I like playing unconventional character, but I get the impression a lot of Veeky Forums players don't realize how unconventional they are.

>Remember when at the end of Pirates of the Caribbean Jack Sparrow said, "you are my best friend now, Orlando Bloom. Let's stay together and have adventures until the end of time."
That's more of an argument against why more lawful characters would stay on adventures for long periods of time, rather than eventually settling down. Jack did still go on adventures after that, and yeah, some of them were on his his group at times, but his desire for freedom and adventure led him to stay with a group of like-minded people for more time than the man who was only on the adventure for a specific goal. For a chaotic neutral character whose sole personal goal is journeying over that new horizon, going on multiple adventures makes more sense, because they're on the first adventure for something tied intrinsically to that adventure's goal, adventure is the goal.

A charismatic leader gets them to follow him. It's not stretch to imagine that they just feel they're best off with Jack.

Well, yes, that's my entire point. You don't need any particular explanation to explain why a CN character would want to stick with a group they like that is continuing to go on dangerous, exciting, and profitable adventures. That is how they do. What needs explanation is why a Lawful character who'd prefer to open a bakery is doing that.

He's got no reason not to
He feels like following them
He has a common goal

Actually, most pirates would be considered neutral or neutral evil. Most joined pirate ships because it was the most profitable thing to do. In fact, life on pirate ships was often highly regulated.

That's how I moved to San Antonio.

Lawful neutral monks are on a pilgrimage of self-perfection. Other lawful neutral characters may also choose to follow another type of journey of acquiring power: mages that want to unlock the secrets of the universe, clerics that want to get in touch with their gods, and so on. Lawful characters may also pursue wealth, or view fighting as their profession.

We're talking about movie pirates, though.

Honestly, Gibbs seems like a regular old neutral guy to me. Pirates may also not necessarily choose to stay aboard a ship under the same captain forever. They will jump ship when a battle is going badly, or they will stay behind and pursue another activity after their journey is over. I don't think piracy was a lifelong committment for most pirates.

>What are good reasons for a chaotic neutral character staying with an adventuring party for several adventures and campaigns?

The party's actions incidentally benefit the character, or the character shares some mutual long-term goal with the party.

Probably already said. I'm too lazy to read over every reply.

Orlando Bloom isn't a lawful character, though. Rather, he's chaotic good or neutral good.

Used the term "more lawful" because of that. As in more lawful than Jack, the pirate. This is part of what led him to attempt at least to settle down with Elizabeth, and back into his life at the end of Pirates one, leading into Pirates 2, where he was dragged back into the fray to protect the life they were trying to make together. I would go with Neutral Good, honestly.

The point is, the Chaotic Neutral character is drawn to the adventure not just because of a specific goal, but because the nature of an adventure contains with it an element of freedom hard to find elsewhere, making it very easy for them to continue with new goals after one is met, because if gives them more of that rush of the new and unexpected.

Why would a CN character stick with a group over multiple adventures?

>Friendships
>Adventure
>Gets richer/more powerful by sticking with the people he's already bonded with

CN characters are motivated by change and adventure, along with personal likes. If it's a group they enjoy being around, there's no reason NOT to stick with them as long as something new and exciting is happening.

You definitely have a point, since neutral and lawful characters are definitely more associated with homeliness and steadiness, but I can easily imagine someone who is lawful or neutral also enjoying adventure, even if the inherent thrill of it will often be secondary to the goal to be achieved. A character who is homeless due to their backstory may especially be drawn to being on the move and finding new adventures to go on.

literally shits and giggles
isn't that all that motivates a chaotic neutral?

>Jay, why did you work in a dead end job for the last fifty years while supporting your abusive wife in a dead-end marriage?
>shits and giggles

CNs are arguably the master manipulators. they have the greatest range of reasoning to create situations that may benefit themselves, torment others, turn two individuals against each other, create personal amusement, eleviate his boredom, and even be for no reason at all.

Allignments at their best can be a way to act in character to support a believable narrative, at their worst to derail the DM.

as it hasn't been mentioned yet, how about
>the PCs are trapped in a complex and the DM refuses to kill the CN PC off because he hates everyone

He realizes the party is an idiotic gathering of murder happy retards. He consistently directs them towards people he wants killed pretending it will help some overarching goal for them.

A chaotic character doesn't need a reason. Adventuring is a natural lifestyle for a chaotic character. A simple refusal to settle down in civilized society makes sure of that.

Rather, tell me why your lawful character doesn't just settle down for a normal life in a civilized society the first chance they get.