/CofD/ &/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

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mediafire.com/download/n7htcqyqk0y0acy/[WtF]The_Pack.PDF
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>Because that faggot wont stop asking for it
pastebin.com/u/Aspel
>News
theonyxpath.com/now-available-the-endless-ages-anthology-for-vampire-the-masquerade/
>Mage 2e Errata
drive.google.com/file/d/0BxveHUKxwBU9UUZ4UjZJdEhIM2c/view?usp=sharing
>new mega
mega.nz/#F!rFIDxRRK!IEzkLlroRoPwmDqtxKRMsw
This week's Monday Meeting Notes:
theonyxpath.com/unpacking-a-content-community-and-other-stuff-monday-meeting-notes/
>Question
How does the World of Darkness celebrate Halloween?

Other urls found in this thread:

docs.google.com/document/d/1RCBCABuDOVM0qxHHtownvUiaaC5XAX6kJDQGZbMW6Kk/edit?usp=sharing
whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Caine
whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Second_Generation
forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/vampire-the-requiem/996449-weird-experiment-changeling-meets-requiem-the-admonitoria
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

>How does the World of Darkness celebrate Halloween?

Hard liquor mixed with tass/vitae/essence etc.

>>Because that faggot wont stop asking for it
Come on, man. It's my birthday. Do you really gotta keep up this bullshit?
No one is even asking for it, you're just starting shit.
Also that Mega doesn't have everything, that's why I included two of them.
Why are we still linking The Pack and Ghouls?

You're doing a terrible job of making these threads.

docs.google.com/document/d/1RCBCABuDOVM0qxHHtownvUiaaC5XAX6kJDQGZbMW6Kk/edit?usp=sharing

I wrote this over the course of an hour. It is basically an Arete 10 paradigm, but then again that is basically a perfect explanation of reality anyways

TLDR: Everything exists because of something else that is trying to exist because if it didn't try to exist it wouldn't exist. If you know why you exist you can potentially gain the means to change things so that they exist more in a way you like, to your best understanding of how to do that.

>Consensual reality
Disgusting

Yeah and again that changes the setting Drastically. I get the point, its just not the game presented and it will always be a point of contention.

Like I said no longer a dark reflect of our own world, darknoble urban fantasy but high fantasy in the modern age with blood magic

I agree with that, but after hyping it up for a decade and a half they had to deliver somehow

Thats a misnomer. Its really only consensual if you have the means to say no and the knowledge you can, or one of the two and some luck

Friendo, you do realize that only VtM was actually a dark setting. It was about being all dark and angsty
WtA was about coping with the fact that you lost the war for Gaia
Mage was a game of hope where you could fix anything if you could get past the damn technocrats

Also only the supernatural saw that sorta thing happen, everyone else was lied to or covered up with Paradox

Consensual relates to consensus.
And given that people unconcsiously warp reality through the strength of their belief, they are committing to a consensus of "magic isn't real".

Thus, Consensual reality.

......

I just made old world of darkness into a setting where everyone is getting raped constantly because they don't know the cosmic safeword and/or can't speak up because they are gagged, metaphorically

brb committing seduku

meh not my fault they wrote themselves into a corner.

Honestly End Times cults are kind of bullshit in RL. Things have to end or the group disbands or the cult has to escalate crazy shit, or Drink the koolaid Johnstown style.

motherfucker did I not just say that was a misnomer?

And I was disagreeing, motherfucker.

>children of a lost war in a world slowly dying
>overbearing authoritarianism hiding mankind's potential
Thats not exactly cheery funtime user

>Also only the supernatural saw that sorta thing happen, everyone else was lied to or covered up with Paradox

Thats lazy writing, and the expanded consequences would be terrible. also pic related

The other game lines were pretty dark. Paradox can't cover up entire continents being fucked over.

But it's not. Consensual reality really is just "this is what the majority of people believe".
Mages are simply people who's Paradigm can overwrite the primary reality.

The entire thing about the Ascension War is that the technocracy is winning and they're the dominant paradigm, and in doing so they've created a world where "magic" can exist within the mundane world.

>The other game lines were pretty dark. Paradox can't cover up entire continents being fucked over.
The planet was literally conquered by invading Eitherite in Zeppelins and everyone forgot. So yes, yes it can

I take the side that the Tech didn't so much Win the war, more like it let Humanity make a choice. Between Magic and Logic. and hey people liked a world where they didn't have to worry about illogical shit like dragons stealing daughters

Mankind wanted a world where everyone at least played by the same physical rules. and the Tech just play into that paradigm. A Tool that doesn't need an 'enlightened' soul to use, just something that's repeatably good.

Basically Science is not magic. and the Techs use science as magic to get shit done

...

When I mean "you can't" I don't mean "the setting doesn't allow that"; I mean that "the writers cannot reasonably expect to make that decision and not have it be considered bullshit".

The problem is that the Technocracy is just as much stupid bullshit wizards as the Traditions.

>Science is not magic
Not any more. Consensus has been achieved about that.
Meaning that at least the principles that are commonly accepted work like a treat.

Fuck off, Aspel.

Actually, that's just Aspel playing semantics again. Ignore them.

nono you don't understand

Science is not magic. The laws physics were in play at the beginning of time and you had to use magic to break it. This is the assumed rule set, and therefore the truth of the matter. You use magic to break the rules everyone else plays by, and get what you want

Yes and they use the scientific trappings to make it happen. It's all magic, but the Techs are playing closer to the shared belief of mankind.

>Science is not magic.
Tangential, but you want to know what the scariest fucking thing to me is as far as existential horror? That bullshit notion that our reality exists atop a bubble.

Scarier than anything Lovecraft ever came up with.

Neither of those are me.

...

I'm still new to the oWoD and V:tM.

In the V20 releases or books that ended the old edition, did we ever learn more detailed information about Caine or the first and second generation progenitor vampires?

If so, is there a summary of this information somewhere?

This shit. Mind my crappy paint job.

The conceit of the setting is that the layer beneath what we commonly interact with works on, shall we say, democratic principles. We walk around on the earth and we see ourselves but we can't use medical treatments derived from an understanding of the four elements and four humors because we've collectively decided that those are not the mechanisms beneath the hood.

I'll use a car analogy: You see a car. You turn the key. It makes noise and vibrates but you don't need to see or understand what's under the hood in order to use it to get around. If humanity had, over the course of it's long existence, decided that phoenix feathers and alchemical fire were what would be needed to make that car run, that's what you'd have found beneath the hood because we collectively agreed that that what was the most likely and rational way that the world operates.

But we didn't decide on that. We said "Physics, sanitation and a mechanistic universe are neat!" and so that car is powered by an internal combustion engine.

whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Caine
whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Second_Generation

It is an interesting theory and metaphysical model and I can see the use of the irrational number i use in some technoamncer modelings. There also the idea of plato's cave and string theories holding the world together

All in all Nice idea

The concept of Boltzmann brains freaks me out more. In short, it's more likely you're a self-aware entity inhabiting a void than a self-aware entity produced by and inhabiting a complex natural world.

The rule set starts in the physical realm. You can't fly up you need magic to fly. That pretty heavily implies you need magic to break the rules other people follow.

Unless you want to go with the theory that a great decision was made in a more modern era and that decision was the applied retroactively, science was always the reality of the common man, and therefore Science is not Magic

>Unless you want to go with the theory that a great decision was made in a more modern era and that decision was the applied retroactively, science was always the reality of the common man, and therefore Science is not Magic

Okay. Yes, that's a fairly accurate description of how science works. This however, is a Roleplaying game based upon the idea that what we call magic and breaking the rules is, in actuality, the ability of someone who realizes that these things are not ironclad but subject to belief. In such a setting, it makes perfect sense.

And your statement is one long non-sequitur, it was a long process that began in the Renaissance and culminated with the slow unraveling of magical thinking and rise of the idea of an ordered mechanistic universe as the be-all, end-all.

How do you play in settings before the dark ages / renaissance era? By assuming common physical laws and letting magic break it.

you can say all you want about the setting, and yeah I get the point of magic unraveling. But I'm pretty sure stories of flying pigs were uncommon. The stories of Amazing deeds done by heros were awesoming were because they were so uncommon and cool. If flying was a common trait of mankind it wouldn't be noted as awesome but mundane and normal.

Magic left the world. revealing the mundane, i.e. Science cold logical, but not going to kill anyone because it had a tummy ache.

Again, see the car analogy. A car doesn't fly either. It does car things, whether or not we are blind to the underlying principles.

The void seems like a cool place, I wish I was there

The Car analogy assumes someone didn't build the car and therefore knows how to use work build and repair it to begin with. Stop using that analogy it doesn't hold water. beyond the use as is model.

The world can not work on metaphysical democratic principles Alone when the rule set starts with physics as been the unpinning commonality

Is there a bigger jobber in oWoD than Ventrue Antedeluvian? Went out like the biggest bitch

Yeah, but do you know where it can work like that?

In a roleplaying game.

I don't know how many times I've got to say this Yes you are right fluffwise BUT the rule set starts with physical laws and lets you break the rules everyone has to follow. Science is not magic

You know what does this idea better Awakening. That setting pretty much said. Reality is as we made it. and therefore beyond place and beyond time reality was modeled and crafted. and therefore Science could be magic, or could be the crafted model

Anyone got a kink to Changing Breeds? I want to personally see how bad it is.

Science isn't magic because it's agreed upon. To go back to the car analogy, the end user who drives the car is a sleeper. If he has the key, he can get behind the wheel and drive it normally due to standardization of principles that go into automotive design. Things might have changed somewhat in the cab during your lifetime. A CD Player gives way to a USB port but it's been that way as long as you can remember and your parents can remember.

The guy who designed the car was a technocrat. He got to design the car because people decided that sanitation is kind of awesome and they like repeatable, understandable principles rather than dicey bargains with spirits. If, over the lifetime of our species, we had decided that spirit pacts just work better, it might be powered by the will of a spirit. And it was the decentralized choice of billions upon billions of humans that got us to that point.

>You know what does this idea better Awakening. That setting pretty much said. Reality is as we made it. and therefore beyond place and beyond time reality was modeled and crafted. and therefore Science could be magic, or could be the crafted model

You could also have just said "I don't like the fluff" and I could have been all like "Well I do but you do you."

Are you the Brujah antediluvian? How's Carthage, bro?

Meant link. Wow that was funny.

If Temporal Summoning is cast on a woman to point where she was in labor and she gives birth, what happens when the spell ends? Will there be now two versionsnof the mothers child?

Don't give the Tech credit for everything. Mankind made the car or would have eventually made the car along with almost everything else. Mankind made the Nuke in complete secrete separately from Tech influence. Mankind is more than capable in the fluff to do what it wants

I didn't say I don't like the fluff, I said Science is not magic. Mankind decided to say fuck illogical shortcuts, built a base of knowledge and kept building. Science is not magic

Science is Enlightenment for the collective masses. No one decided. independent scientific theory does not need a witness or a judge. Experimentation and Science's ability to be continually verified and expand on knowledge is it's underlining strength

Look I understand in the narrative blab happened. and Magic is possible and hidden, but Science doesn't need magic

The Techs didn't make Science, they hijacked it and are now controlled by it.

It depends on what you mean by 'detailed information, as everything written about them is more narrative/storyline than 'and Caine did this thing'. They're talked about a fair bit in the Book of Nod and other storyline sources, and it talks about who they were (Enoch, Zillah, Irad) and such things, but it's all narrative and bare-bones.

Anyone have the updated Mage 2e PDF with the errata? Thanks.

It's never gonna happen, user.

Just buy it already like i did

Mage players

I've actually purchased a LOT of WW books, and I'll probably eventually buy a hard copy of Mage 2e.

I'll be the first to admit that acquiring the updated PDF has now become more about the principle than money.

I'm astonished that with so many copies of Mage 2e around, that *nobody* leaked the new pdf.

Back from LARP meeting.
This weekend is going to go swimmingly.
Music is all set. Props and decorations for a Halloween masque hosted by the Tremere is all in place. The player of a Toreador Elder and myself are practicing a waltz that my partner is helping is choreograph, to be something leading into the Tremere becoming human, then either becoming mages or puddles of goo. I think everyone will have a good time.

Also, LARPguy here. If you have LARP questions, ask them here!

Is Dracula going? I'm only going if Dracula goes

When are the anticipated release dates for Secrets of the Covenants and Signs of Sorcery for Awakening and Requiem? I know OPP doesn't release exact dates, but is it a matter of weeks or more like Christmas 2017 or thereafter?

Also, do we know the next release for Forsaken?

No, my LARP is too low-brow and standard for Dracula to come. Plus, I'd probably kick him in the shins, so there's that.

I have no idea. I don't work for WW, I'm the resident LARPer who posts regularly in the group.

How do i go about making a Magical Girl for Mage the ascenciin?

>Play a Mage
>Ideally one that is a [preteen or teenage] girl
>Have your Paradigm be HOPE AND JUSTICE
>Fight the baddies

1) Don't take my analogies too seriously.

2) The published materials disagree with you.

3) They're functionally identical within both the fluff and crunch and the system supports that, whether you like it or not.

4) That's fine, but we're talking about a game where they are the same thing, your personal philosophy notwithstanding.

Thats TechnoMagic. Magic done with Scientific trappings. Like the neutralizer borrowing from MIB the alien movie. Which is a bunch of peuso science.

Science as in actual world physics modeled in game is not something you can just escape from. All the magic is layered on top of it. Even during the turbulent ages, mages still recognized simple scientific concepts like Gravity, light and inertia. They did their magic using different tools, but those things still existed

I don't cast Forces to lift a plane using air pressure. It just happens when you move the plane fast enough where the difference in pressure between the upper and lower wings lifts the plane.

The Tech view point was always about lifting mankind collectively. Science is the tool for that. Now what is the ultimate answer is a completely different ideological territory

Anyone?

At this point I'm not sharing it just to spite you.

Not pregnant woman into -> pregnant woman

Biologically pregnant but has no fetus or baby

When the woman is pregnant the fetus and mother are the same 'pattern' until the baby is birth. Then the baby and woman are two separate 'patterns'

only the one pattern is time traveled, and does not create or link the other pattern back.

Now if you cast it on BOTH of them. that would be an interesting story.

The spell would give you a pregnant woman with no baby to give birth to.

>At this point I'm not sharing it just to spite you.

I'm hardly the only person requesting the pdf. I'm just persistent and honest.

>Jump forward. in the modern ages we've got 14th and 15th gens, which shouldn't be possible according to previous metaphysics, but now is. If you continue that line of thought. Eventually you'd get 14 full blood vamps and 15th able to sire thin bloods.
>So you see Eventually those 14th and 15th would barely be vamps With no curse of caine at all.

But by that same logic, couldn't each newly sired and now full blooded generation, 14 siring full blooded 15ths, and then a century or two later, 15ths siring full blooded 16ths. To borrow a phrase from CofD, it sounds like blood potence is the key. In theory, as long as the race could survive for a few centuries without siring (and it wouldn't be that extreme, because there would still be some previous generations siring) vampires could continue on in such a way you might as well forget generations and just work off potence.

I actually really like that, it could be fun metaplot. Was the OPP cut of point before or after Time of Thin Blood? Because I'm interested to how they will deal with it.

>Science as in actual world physics modeled in game is not something you can just escape from.

Of course it is. Then you wouldn't be able to escape from it at all. Yes, it's modeled in game and it is acknowledged in game but individuals can and do routinely violate it. By acknowledging that physics, in a fictional world wherein vampires and werewolves and wizards exist, isn't concrete and inescapable, you must also acknowledge that enlightened individuals that violate these things through extremely advanced theoretical scientific procedures must also fit within this framework.

15th gens cannot sire. 14th gens fail to sire half the time. 13th gens can sire normally but their progeny have a 50/50 chance of being Caitiff.

We are saying the same thing.Science is universal until something chances that. Science is a concrete thing for the norm, but can be subverted using magic. Techs use Technomagic (magic that uses Science trappings) and Traditions use largely symbolism to do their magic.

Such is the postulate proposed. The further down the timeline you get the more likely higher and higher gens, could theoretically become viable. And the nature of higher and higher gen, the less blood curse there is. Mechanically this is reflected in smaller and smaller blood pool/ blood per turn. and sunlight damage. Thin-THin blood take sunlight as lethal. You could theoretically keep pushing it down to just bashing for higher and higher gen.

And yes Blood Potency is the way to go, The curse of caine is just too diluted, to continue that metaphysics and still have caine vampires

As far as making it a plot. You could take the current thin blood situation, and through it back to Roman times. Requiem even has a rome by night setting. Thrown in the rise of Christianity, compare n contrast with the fall of caine vampires. Sounds like a playable campaign plot. People might complain about Bridging universes, but it sounds like fun.

>ITT: Chrodniggers fail to realize that a 4th or 5th gen vampire that's still active can still create progeny and their progeny can still create progeny...

>Is late to the party

tldr: with caine metaphysics eventually too much diluted blood, after several centuries

no matter how much you hold out the candle for owod he'll never come back to you user.

O-of course he will, daddy will come back! And when he does, I'm telling him about how mean you were...!

Can I convince one of those 4th/5th generation guys to embrace me so I can be one of the protagonists?

How has this not gotten on to the thread yet?

Recently done by the creator of Changeling 2E himself, I present to you a Changeling/Vampire Template. And I don't mean a vampire with a changeling bloodline or s changeling with a vampire kith. A true mixture of both. Check it out and rage over it.

forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/vampire-the-requiem/996449-weird-experiment-changeling-meets-requiem-the-admonitoria

It's better than the concept has any right to be.

I thinks it's fucking fantastic honestly. But I'm sure plenty of people will hate it and this will spark an argument thst will last the thread.

Not so sure about the "Embrace as your escape from your Durance" angle. But "Vampire escapes Arcadia" sounds neat.

Hey both are fair.

Corgy Rage intensifies

Will read and wait with pleasure

I didnt read it but i think being a changeling vampire is just enouph fuck up to stop care about fixing it and just dont enouph fuck up to leave human perception alltogether.
I feel like character must be an edgy kid without purpose and not enouph transcendant mindbending personality to be interesting to roleplay, and oh boy i even find beasts heroes interesting to roleplay.

Honestly this make me want to try making a mage/werewolf mix up.

I think mixing Mage with anything would just fuck the mixture up beyond repair.
Mage has a very specific way of going about powers that doesn't play nicely with others.

Well mixing mage with something just leave narrow minded mage, since mage is everything, mage is love, mage is life.

Didn't Descartes himself pretty much seal the lid on the whole "you're creating your own reality" issue way back in the 17th century by observing that things he would like to happen regularly don't, while things he'd never want to do? I remember him using a particularly amusing metaphor about him as a child stepping on nail.

Yeah, but that same little bitch figured he wasn't wrong about reality because his god wouldn't lie to him - an argument that fails to account for the mentally ill.

I couldn't parse the fuck you're saying.

I did a Wolfblooded Proximus Dynasty. Their Paradox Condition was that they'd go Dalu and Death Rage.

That implies creating our reality is a conscious decision.
What Descartes realized was that the only thing he could concretely determine was that his own mind existed. You know, the Cogito. "I think, therefore I am"? Cogito ergo sum.

>What Descartes realized was that the only thing he could concretely determine was that his own mind existed. You know, the Cogito. "I think, therefore I am"? Cogito ergo sum.
Descartes has composed innumerable philosophical treatises (on top of being a prolific doctor, mathematician, and astronomer). The Cogito is just the tip of the iceberg that pseudo-intellectuals have heard secondhand about on the internet and are assuming to be the end result of his entire academic career.

Read some more.

>are assuming to be the end result of his entire academic career.
He was also a mathematician.

Yes, he's remembered for his shitty attempts to turn philosophy into a science. What's your point?

What happens when you ate a Mage but everyone already knows who you are and people can easily look you up. Like if your a student or an employee in some company. Whats the point of getting a Shadow name when people know who you are?

An interesting concept, and I'm all for more crossover material. That said, CofD isn't by bag, generally. I only own the core WoD and Requiem books.

I'm not particularly familiar with Changling in either edition, would this be workable in Classic World of Darkness?

I mean, despite people harping on that crossovers don't work, the various books do make mentions of eachother occasionally, and the various fictions assume a shared world. So what oWoD combinations are theoretically possible, no matter how mechanically difficult/impossible? It might be fun to throw a Werebear Mage in full warform at my group one day.

You hide your true identity (even just a Mask will do) or move somewhere else.

The whole point of a shadow name is to disassociate your magical you with your normal you. Otherwise they are one in the same person.

So if you are minor you run away from home?

You can have a mystical identity without burning your mundane one.

If you're a minor though, odds are your Order will approach your parents with the stereotypical "Xaviar School for Gift Youngsters" offer, then cart you away for training out of the public eye.

In some 1e materials, an Awakening is said to be detectable by other Awakened as something of a mystic shockwave which can be detected by their Unseen Senses.
Which causes other Mages, being the compulsive busybodies that they are, to find them.

Do you think that will holds in 2e with peripheral Mage Sight?

Yes, it is. If you're on the same Path as the fresh Awakening, it makes a hell of a noise in the Supernal World.